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when did apoc go 1-0 over glade?
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On June 30 2013 10:18 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 10:17 Loxley wrote:On June 30 2013 10:16 c0ldfusion wrote:On June 30 2013 10:14 Proseat wrote:
Come on, HerO! Pull the root!
Wow just noticed that HerO is Liquid's lone representation in this tournament. My how the times have changed. ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/treehugger/PhotoWeek2HSC.jpg) Yah, people are already forgetting homestory cup which ended less than a week ago ~_~ the other members of the team are busy on the other side of the world.
Poor Zenio....
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On June 30 2013 10:18 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 10:17 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:15 DamageControL wrote:On June 30 2013 10:10 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:08 DamageControL wrote:On June 30 2013 10:05 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:04 TTOMZ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:03 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:01 TTOMZ wrote:
I think this Catz thing is silly and people are being silly, is Catz even considered a pro player anymore? I see him more as an acting manager you could say, playing for moral support
Coach Park is playing in this MLG right? So imagine if he'd got paired with an EG or TL player in his first game. Do you think he would have played vs them? No he's of forfeited his place. He's playing for fun and if he ever ran into an EG or TL player he would simple give them the bye
I see Catz as being in the same situation Of course he would have played. This also does not even attempt to evaluate the actual issue. Just "its fine because Catz sucks"? That is not a good reason. When did i say Catz sucks? I said he's not seen as a pro player anymore. He doesn't play to win major tournements be plays for moral support for his team And its the exact same situation Again no actual points here. Catz isnt a pro therefore its ok. That is NOT RELEVANT. Why is it a problem? Or rather, in what world is "throwing matches" avoidable? People say rushing probes is unacceptable. I think how we handled the NaNi incident was bad. You can't force someone to try. You say it "hurts the integrity of the tournament." How? What's the impact? What harm does it do to the tournament? There will not be sudden rash of people throwing games--there are a fairly unique set of circumstances where it's beneficial to both parties. Answer my questions above please. LG-IM all 4 semi finalists, forfeit to give MVP the win. Fine? Its not a unique set of circumstances. There is nothing unique about it. It is a principle. Either its acceptable or not. Black and white. You can't force someone to try. But you can disqualify them if you think they didn't try deliberately in order to influence the outcome. 1. Yes it's fine. 2. You keep saying it's acceptable or not, black or white. I'm saying it's fine. You're saying it's not. But you aren't substantiating your claim. You keep claiming IT'S NEVER OK. I believe that it is fine for two reasons: a) it's unenforceable (Catz can suddenly and inexplicably show up late, etc.) b) I don't see what's wrong with it ethically. 3. What's the threshold for effort there? Do we keep a magic effort meter somewhere? 4. You still haven't answered my question: what happens that is so bad here? it is enforceable. You can disqualify if you have evidence it was done deliberately. Ethically it is not acceptable because he has given a team mate a free pass. He didn't have to play a match in the tournament. They have manipulated the brackets to their advantage and affected the integrity of the whole tournament. Do you think what Savior did is fine? Inappropriate analogy Dude, get it over it.
What about Coca?
It is collusion pure and simple.
I am over it. And the analogy is not inappropriate at all. Please tell me the difference?
Its against MLG rules. It should result in disqualification pure and simple.
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On June 30 2013 10:17 stuchiu wrote:Stop, you're going to summon Sage into Germany.
well then he can't beat Hero. I think of that as a win win situation?
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Time to watch Grubby make another silly fucking mistake in a PvT and feel bad for the rest of MLG lol
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Standard openings from Hero and Sage this game.
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On June 30 2013 10:17 _SpiRaL_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 10:15 DamageControL wrote:On June 30 2013 10:10 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:08 DamageControL wrote:On June 30 2013 10:05 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:04 TTOMZ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:03 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:01 TTOMZ wrote:
I think this Catz thing is silly and people are being silly, is Catz even considered a pro player anymore? I see him more as an acting manager you could say, playing for moral support
Coach Park is playing in this MLG right? So imagine if he'd got paired with an EG or TL player in his first game. Do you think he would have played vs them? No he's of forfeited his place. He's playing for fun and if he ever ran into an EG or TL player he would simple give them the bye
I see Catz as being in the same situation Of course he would have played. This also does not even attempt to evaluate the actual issue. Just "its fine because Catz sucks"? That is not a good reason. When did i say Catz sucks? I said he's not seen as a pro player anymore. He doesn't play to win major tournements be plays for moral support for his team And its the exact same situation Again no actual points here. Catz isnt a pro therefore its ok. That is NOT RELEVANT. Why is it a problem? Or rather, in what world is "throwing matches" avoidable? People say rushing probes is unacceptable. I think how we handled the NaNi incident was bad. You can't force someone to try. You say it "hurts the integrity of the tournament." How? What's the impact? What harm does it do to the tournament? There will not be sudden rash of people throwing games--there are a fairly unique set of circumstances where it's beneficial to both parties. Answer my questions above please. LG-IM all 4 semi finalists, forfeit to give MVP the win. Fine? Its not a unique set of circumstances. There is nothing unique about it. It is a principle. Either its acceptable or not. Black and white. You can't force someone to try. But you can disqualify them if you think they didn't try deliberately in order to influence the outcome. 1. Yes it's fine. 2. You keep saying it's acceptable or not, black or white. I'm saying it's fine. You're saying it's not. But you aren't substantiating your claim. You keep claiming IT'S NEVER OK. I believe that it is fine for two reasons: a) it's unenforceable (Catz can suddenly and inexplicably show up late, etc.) b) I don't see what's wrong with it ethically. 3. What's the threshold for effort there? Do we keep a magic effort meter somewhere? 4. You still haven't answered my question: what happens that is so bad here? it is enforceable. You can disqualify if you have evidence it was done deliberately. Ethically it is not acceptable because he has given a team mate a free pass. He didn't have to play a match in the tournament. They have manipulated the brackets to their advantage and affected the integrity of the whole tournament. Do you think what Savior did is fine?
1. How would you collect this evidence?
2. No what savior did was not fine because it was:
a. Not explicit (this matters less but people don't like being deceived)
b. There was money being gambled and he was fixing it--which is actually illegal
Please define what the "integrity" of a tournament is. I don't know how to point out it's not violating that spirit otherwise.
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On June 30 2013 10:20 Nick! wrote:
Time to watch Grubby make another silly fucking mistake in a PvT and feel bad for the rest of MLG lol
I don't know if I can take it after JD vs Dear.
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SpiRaL just leave it man. You are right it's unethical what Catz did (if true), but at the same time it's understandable. I wonder what Golden will do if Kane knocks him out though, because I personally would throw a fit.
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that guy sounds like klazart...
miss that good old jaedong fanboy
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Protoss Totalbiscuit voice
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On June 30 2013 10:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 10:18 c0ldfusion wrote:On June 30 2013 10:17 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:15 DamageControL wrote:On June 30 2013 10:10 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:08 DamageControL wrote:On June 30 2013 10:05 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:04 TTOMZ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:03 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:01 TTOMZ wrote:
I think this Catz thing is silly and people are being silly, is Catz even considered a pro player anymore? I see him more as an acting manager you could say, playing for moral support
Coach Park is playing in this MLG right? So imagine if he'd got paired with an EG or TL player in his first game. Do you think he would have played vs them? No he's of forfeited his place. He's playing for fun and if he ever ran into an EG or TL player he would simple give them the bye
I see Catz as being in the same situation Of course he would have played. This also does not even attempt to evaluate the actual issue. Just "its fine because Catz sucks"? That is not a good reason. When did i say Catz sucks? I said he's not seen as a pro player anymore. He doesn't play to win major tournements be plays for moral support for his team And its the exact same situation Again no actual points here. Catz isnt a pro therefore its ok. That is NOT RELEVANT. Why is it a problem? Or rather, in what world is "throwing matches" avoidable? People say rushing probes is unacceptable. I think how we handled the NaNi incident was bad. You can't force someone to try. You say it "hurts the integrity of the tournament." How? What's the impact? What harm does it do to the tournament? There will not be sudden rash of people throwing games--there are a fairly unique set of circumstances where it's beneficial to both parties. Answer my questions above please. LG-IM all 4 semi finalists, forfeit to give MVP the win. Fine? Its not a unique set of circumstances. There is nothing unique about it. It is a principle. Either its acceptable or not. Black and white. You can't force someone to try. But you can disqualify them if you think they didn't try deliberately in order to influence the outcome. 1. Yes it's fine. 2. You keep saying it's acceptable or not, black or white. I'm saying it's fine. You're saying it's not. But you aren't substantiating your claim. You keep claiming IT'S NEVER OK. I believe that it is fine for two reasons: a) it's unenforceable (Catz can suddenly and inexplicably show up late, etc.) b) I don't see what's wrong with it ethically. 3. What's the threshold for effort there? Do we keep a magic effort meter somewhere? 4. You still haven't answered my question: what happens that is so bad here? it is enforceable. You can disqualify if you have evidence it was done deliberately. Ethically it is not acceptable because he has given a team mate a free pass. He didn't have to play a match in the tournament. They have manipulated the brackets to their advantage and affected the integrity of the whole tournament. Do you think what Savior did is fine? Inappropriate analogy Dude, get it over it. What about Coca? It is collusion pure and simple. I am over it. And the analogy is not inappropriate at all. Please tell me the difference? Its against MLG rules. It should result in disqualification pure and simple.
The profit isn't even 10% as much a factor in this tournament. Yes, Kane did get a by, and doesn't have to play as many games as his opponent. Gee, that isn't fair. You say you're over it, but you keep arguing. Honestly, Kane is gonna need that by to have a chance, so let him have it.
I would have liked to see that game, but oh well. Good luck to Root in any case.
It happens, and it isn't NEARLY as bad as Savior.
EDIT: I'm not saying I agree with Catz decision, only that nothing will be done about it, and it's best to let it be right now.
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United States97277 Posts
I've actually decided that I hope Sound gets a good result. He lost in the finals of the Red Bull tournament and then missed the Code A qualifiers because he stayed until MLG, so he's out of WCS for this season. He could use something to go his way.
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You can say Catz is only playing for fun/moral support w/e so he can choose to forfeit. Why even enter the competition in the first place if you aren't going to give it your all? All it does is make the tournament look like a semi-serious tournament. But that's been the image of MLG historically and thats the allure of MLG, that amateurs can enter and compete alongside pros.
Personally I think Catz should have played Kane and give it his all and Kane can prove himself by winning against his teammate/coach/manager. I think Catz put Kane in a lose/lose situation by forfeiting.
But MLG obviously is not going to care about this incident so I don't know why we should either.
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On June 30 2013 10:20 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 10:17 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:15 DamageControL wrote:On June 30 2013 10:10 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:08 DamageControL wrote:On June 30 2013 10:05 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:04 TTOMZ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:03 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:01 TTOMZ wrote:
I think this Catz thing is silly and people are being silly, is Catz even considered a pro player anymore? I see him more as an acting manager you could say, playing for moral support
Coach Park is playing in this MLG right? So imagine if he'd got paired with an EG or TL player in his first game. Do you think he would have played vs them? No he's of forfeited his place. He's playing for fun and if he ever ran into an EG or TL player he would simple give them the bye
I see Catz as being in the same situation Of course he would have played. This also does not even attempt to evaluate the actual issue. Just "its fine because Catz sucks"? That is not a good reason. When did i say Catz sucks? I said he's not seen as a pro player anymore. He doesn't play to win major tournements be plays for moral support for his team And its the exact same situation Again no actual points here. Catz isnt a pro therefore its ok. That is NOT RELEVANT. Why is it a problem? Or rather, in what world is "throwing matches" avoidable? People say rushing probes is unacceptable. I think how we handled the NaNi incident was bad. You can't force someone to try. You say it "hurts the integrity of the tournament." How? What's the impact? What harm does it do to the tournament? There will not be sudden rash of people throwing games--there are a fairly unique set of circumstances where it's beneficial to both parties. Answer my questions above please. LG-IM all 4 semi finalists, forfeit to give MVP the win. Fine? Its not a unique set of circumstances. There is nothing unique about it. It is a principle. Either its acceptable or not. Black and white. You can't force someone to try. But you can disqualify them if you think they didn't try deliberately in order to influence the outcome. 1. Yes it's fine. 2. You keep saying it's acceptable or not, black or white. I'm saying it's fine. You're saying it's not. But you aren't substantiating your claim. You keep claiming IT'S NEVER OK. I believe that it is fine for two reasons: a) it's unenforceable (Catz can suddenly and inexplicably show up late, etc.) b) I don't see what's wrong with it ethically. 3. What's the threshold for effort there? Do we keep a magic effort meter somewhere? 4. You still haven't answered my question: what happens that is so bad here? it is enforceable. You can disqualify if you have evidence it was done deliberately. Ethically it is not acceptable because he has given a team mate a free pass. He didn't have to play a match in the tournament. They have manipulated the brackets to their advantage and affected the integrity of the whole tournament. Do you think what Savior did is fine? 1. How would you collect this evidence? 2. No what savior did was not fine because it was: a. Not explicit (this matter less but people don't like being deceived) b. There was money being gambled and he was fixing it--which is actually illegal Please define what the "integrity" of a tournament is. I don't know how to point out it's not violating that spirit otherwise.
1. Same way you collect any evidence.
2. I don't disagree that there is a difference, but the ethical principle is similar. That was the reason for my analogy. Not to make it seem like they were the same situation. The explanation of the difference between them to reveal the ethical reasoning is the important thing (before people misunderstand me).
Integrity of the tournament=the belief that the tournament is played ethically with full effort from all players involved so that the results can be trusted.
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On June 30 2013 10:14 LighT. wrote:As soon as Gumiho stops walking around like a retard.
I've LOLed hard
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On June 30 2013 10:22 FluffyBinLaden wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 10:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:18 c0ldfusion wrote:On June 30 2013 10:17 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:15 DamageControL wrote:On June 30 2013 10:10 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:08 DamageControL wrote:On June 30 2013 10:05 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:04 TTOMZ wrote:On June 30 2013 10:03 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
[quote]
Of course he would have played. This also does not even attempt to evaluate the actual issue. Just "its fine because Catz sucks"? That is not a good reason. When did i say Catz sucks? I said he's not seen as a pro player anymore. He doesn't play to win major tournements be plays for moral support for his team And its the exact same situation Again no actual points here. Catz isnt a pro therefore its ok. That is NOT RELEVANT. Why is it a problem? Or rather, in what world is "throwing matches" avoidable? People say rushing probes is unacceptable. I think how we handled the NaNi incident was bad. You can't force someone to try. You say it "hurts the integrity of the tournament." How? What's the impact? What harm does it do to the tournament? There will not be sudden rash of people throwing games--there are a fairly unique set of circumstances where it's beneficial to both parties. Answer my questions above please. LG-IM all 4 semi finalists, forfeit to give MVP the win. Fine? Its not a unique set of circumstances. There is nothing unique about it. It is a principle. Either its acceptable or not. Black and white. You can't force someone to try. But you can disqualify them if you think they didn't try deliberately in order to influence the outcome. 1. Yes it's fine. 2. You keep saying it's acceptable or not, black or white. I'm saying it's fine. You're saying it's not. But you aren't substantiating your claim. You keep claiming IT'S NEVER OK. I believe that it is fine for two reasons: a) it's unenforceable (Catz can suddenly and inexplicably show up late, etc.) b) I don't see what's wrong with it ethically. 3. What's the threshold for effort there? Do we keep a magic effort meter somewhere? 4. You still haven't answered my question: what happens that is so bad here? it is enforceable. You can disqualify if you have evidence it was done deliberately. Ethically it is not acceptable because he has given a team mate a free pass. He didn't have to play a match in the tournament. They have manipulated the brackets to their advantage and affected the integrity of the whole tournament. Do you think what Savior did is fine? Inappropriate analogy Dude, get it over it. What about Coca? It is collusion pure and simple. I am over it. And the analogy is not inappropriate at all. Please tell me the difference? Its against MLG rules. It should result in disqualification pure and simple. The profit isn't even 10% as much a factor in this tournament. Yes, Kane did get a by, and doesn't have to play as many games as his opponent. Gee, that isn't fair. You say you're over it, but you keep arguing. Honestly, Kane is gonna need that by to have a chance, so let him have it. I would have liked to see that game, but oh well. Good luck to Root in any case. It happens, and it isn't NEARLY as bad as Savior.
If the bolded is true (which it isn't), but if it was then this would be a very good argument on my side, not yours.....
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EPT
