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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On June 03 2013 23:56 Caladan wrote:
Well, everyone has his own opinions but from an ESPORTS point of view, more viewer entertainment leads to more ESPORTS growth. Players like to cheer for their own teams and players, as you can see in soccer, basketball, tennis, etc, all the popular sports... hardly a billion people would tune in for a soccer world championship if 32 korean teams would play against each other, even if they were superior?
Also even if some "weaker" Americans/Europeans would travel to world finals: Upsets can always happen! Upsets are one of the greatest things to watch in SC2 and are great for entertainment.
I don't think any tournament in America/Europe can hold itself if only Koreans play and only Koreans win. Viewer numbers will drop, sponsors will drop, tournament will eventually die. We need to push the foreign esports scene, else we get the situation like in SC/BW again, only SC2 is not even as popular in Korea as SC/BW was.
Well, [popular NA player] vs Innovation is sorta like San Marino vs Spain. Pretty sure people don't wanna watch that at the World Cup. If skill levels were as even as the top teams in most popular sports (even the group stages are fairly contested) of course people wanna see multiple countries duke it out. But until then it just isn't fun to watch players get crushed in a tournament that's meant to showcase the best in the world.
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That cover picture was obviously photo-shopped. I remember Hero crying his hearts out.
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Congratz Hero!
So, since I am new to this WCS system, what does he get for winning this? Maybe a head start in next season or so?
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On June 04 2013 00:41 ottoottoottootto wrote:
Congratz Hero!
So, since I am new to this WCS system, what does he get for winning this? Maybe a head start in next season or so?
By being top 8 he is seeded for next seasons Premier League in WCS NA, by getting first he gets the title along with 20K and 1500 WCS points. Those determine if you qualify for the global finals at Blizzcon later this year. Right now he is on top of the point leaderbord but next weekend the season finals will happen in korea where he will compete with the best of each region. There the winner gets 3000 WCS points and 40K.
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On June 04 2013 00:03 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 23:56 Caladan wrote:
Well, everyone has his own opinions but from an ESPORTS point of view, more viewer entertainment leads to more ESPORTS growth. Players like to cheer for their own teams and players, as you can see in soccer, basketball, tennis, etc, all the popular sports... hardly a billion people would tune in for a soccer world championship if 32 korean teams would play against each other, even if they were superior?
Also even if some "weaker" Americans/Europeans would travel to world finals: Upsets can always happen! Upsets are one of the greatest things to watch in SC2 and are great for entertainment.
I don't think any tournament in America/Europe can hold itself if only Koreans play and only Koreans win. Viewer numbers will drop, sponsors will drop, tournament will eventually die. We need to push the foreign esports scene, else we get the situation like in SC/BW again, only SC2 is not even as popular in Korea as SC/BW was. Well, [popular NA player] vs Innovation is sorta like San Marino vs Spain. Pretty sure people don't wanna watch that at the World Cup. If skill levels were as even as the top teams in most popular sports (even the group stages are fairly contested) of course people wanna see multiple countries duke it out. But until then it just isn't fun to watch players get crushed in a tournament that's meant to showcase the best in the world.
I see a lot of people are still missing the point of this contest. If we were to region lock a qualifier like this for the Championship (notice how I didn't say NA, EU, KR, or World because it's a stupid way of branding a tournament when all they stand for are the final LAN location) the other regions would fall into the abyss. Something Blizzard kind of understands. In order for the gamers to improve they constantly have to be facing better opponents. This is why I don't like region locking. This is why I'm opposed to just having a handful of really good players in one qualifier. This is why I wrote a manifesto which establishes the perfect competitive battlefield in my book where we have an actual World Tour Circuit where you will always get to see the best players compete against one another. It doesn't take several games; it doesn't take 100 games; it takes 1000s of games. That's how they're going to improve.
On June 04 2013 00:26 Spec wrote:
That cover picture was obviously photo-shopped. I remember Hero crying his hearts out.
It wasn't photo-shopped. -_-
On June 03 2013 21:08 Guileful wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 20:48 Fleuria wrote:
So 12 koreans and 4 Euros going to WCS S1 finals, kinda funny. Classic BW situation
Not even. Before Europeans would never even get close to qualifying for the MSL let alone OSL. Heck, they weren't even Pro Gamers & there were a lot of other barriers to entry back then as well.
Only real time we would actually face them in a tournament of relevance was the WCG circus.
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Where can I find the VODs for the finals!?
Someone link me :O
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While its always fun to watch high quality games, when I hear things like 'World Championship' I expect things to be more, like the olympics or world cup. There are some athletes from some countries that wouldn't even make it on a college team here in the US, but they get to compete. I don't see why this cant be the same for WCS. NA sucks, I get it, but we should still have NA players representing the region. I realise that everyone would say that Korean qualifiers would basically be the same things as the finals and that is ok. We need a competition where each region gets their own tournament with a few regional players going on to represent the players.
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On June 04 2013 00:03 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2013 23:56 Caladan wrote:
Well, everyone has his own opinions but from an ESPORTS point of view, more viewer entertainment leads to more ESPORTS growth. Players like to cheer for their own teams and players, as you can see in soccer, basketball, tennis, etc, all the popular sports... hardly a billion people would tune in for a soccer world championship if 32 korean teams would play against each other, even if they were superior?
Also even if some "weaker" Americans/Europeans would travel to world finals: Upsets can always happen! Upsets are one of the greatest things to watch in SC2 and are great for entertainment.
I don't think any tournament in America/Europe can hold itself if only Koreans play and only Koreans win. Viewer numbers will drop, sponsors will drop, tournament will eventually die. We need to push the foreign esports scene, else we get the situation like in SC/BW again, only SC2 is not even as popular in Korea as SC/BW was. Well, [popular NA player] vs Innovation is sorta like San Marino vs Spain. Pretty sure people don't wanna watch that at the World Cup. If skill levels were as even as the top teams in most popular sports (even the group stages are fairly contested) of course people wanna see multiple countries duke it out. But until then it just isn't fun to watch players get crushed in a tournament that's meant to showcase the best in the world.
Several popular NA players would be good enough to get playtime in proleague, you're overstating your case. Anyway, all that's necessary is that they can put up a good fight, they don't need to be the favorites. Maybe HelloKitty vs Soulkey would be a joke match-up, but I can see Scarlett vs Losira go either way. Region locked tournaments would be okay, but I do think that Korea should get more spots then.
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Region locked tournaments would be okay, but I do think that Korea should get more spots then.
I agree with the extra spots. In my opinion, the current systems favors the NA and EU players, and makes it tougher on the koreans. Probably region lock with more spots (quite a lot more, considering the huge amount of damn good koreans) and a bit higher prize pool would make it fair. The downside would probably be that WCS NA and maybe EU would get as much viewers.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On June 04 2013 01:10 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 00:03 lichter wrote:On June 03 2013 23:56 Caladan wrote:
Well, everyone has his own opinions but from an ESPORTS point of view, more viewer entertainment leads to more ESPORTS growth. Players like to cheer for their own teams and players, as you can see in soccer, basketball, tennis, etc, all the popular sports... hardly a billion people would tune in for a soccer world championship if 32 korean teams would play against each other, even if they were superior?
Also even if some "weaker" Americans/Europeans would travel to world finals: Upsets can always happen! Upsets are one of the greatest things to watch in SC2 and are great for entertainment.
I don't think any tournament in America/Europe can hold itself if only Koreans play and only Koreans win. Viewer numbers will drop, sponsors will drop, tournament will eventually die. We need to push the foreign esports scene, else we get the situation like in SC/BW again, only SC2 is not even as popular in Korea as SC/BW was. Well, [popular NA player] vs Innovation is sorta like San Marino vs Spain. Pretty sure people don't wanna watch that at the World Cup. If skill levels were as even as the top teams in most popular sports (even the group stages are fairly contested) of course people wanna see multiple countries duke it out. But until then it just isn't fun to watch players get crushed in a tournament that's meant to showcase the best in the world. I see a lot of people are still missing the point of this contest. If we were to region lock a qualifier like this for the Championship (notice how I didn't say NA, EU, KR, or World because it's a stupid way of branding a tournament when all they stand for are the final LAN location) the other regions would fall into the abyss. Something Blizzard kind of understands. In order for the gamers to improve they constantly have to be facing better opponents. This is why I don't like region locking. This is why I'm opposed to just having a handful of really good players in one qualifier. This is why I wrote a manifesto which establishes the perfect competitive battlefield in my book where we have an actual World Tour Circuit where you will always get to see the best players compete against one another. It doesn't take several games; it doesn't take 100 games; it takes 1000s of games. That's how they're going to improve.
I have always argued this. Region locking will help local pros earn some money, but it won't help them improve. Yes it looks dire now, but hopefully their near-misses will be an impetus for development and change. Foreigners can win. Not now, not this year, but eventually. Region locking won't help.
On June 04 2013 01:15 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 00:03 lichter wrote:On June 03 2013 23:56 Caladan wrote:
Well, everyone has his own opinions but from an ESPORTS point of view, more viewer entertainment leads to more ESPORTS growth. Players like to cheer for their own teams and players, as you can see in soccer, basketball, tennis, etc, all the popular sports... hardly a billion people would tune in for a soccer world championship if 32 korean teams would play against each other, even if they were superior?
Also even if some "weaker" Americans/Europeans would travel to world finals: Upsets can always happen! Upsets are one of the greatest things to watch in SC2 and are great for entertainment.
I don't think any tournament in America/Europe can hold itself if only Koreans play and only Koreans win. Viewer numbers will drop, sponsors will drop, tournament will eventually die. We need to push the foreign esports scene, else we get the situation like in SC/BW again, only SC2 is not even as popular in Korea as SC/BW was. Well, [popular NA player] vs Innovation is sorta like San Marino vs Spain. Pretty sure people don't wanna watch that at the World Cup. If skill levels were as even as the top teams in most popular sports (even the group stages are fairly contested) of course people wanna see multiple countries duke it out. But until then it just isn't fun to watch players get crushed in a tournament that's meant to showcase the best in the world. Several popular NA players would be good enough to get playtime in proleague, you're overstating your case. Anyway, all that's necessary is that they can put up a good fight, they don't need to be the favorites. Maybe HelloKitty vs Soulkey would be a joke match-up, but I can see Scarlett vs Losira go either way. Region locked tournaments would be okay, but I do think that Korea should get more spots then.
Scarlett could do well, yeah. She's one of the few exceptions. Unfortunately she didn't do well in WCS NA. She had the opportunity to, and if she were good enough and fortunate enough, she should have. But she didn't. That isn't the Koreans' fault. Having the lower level Koreans in NA shouldn't be an impassable barrier to success. They are an obstacle that will always be there. It's time for the foreign scene to prove itself.
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On June 04 2013 01:18 Kinon wrote:Show nested quote +Region locked tournaments would be okay, but I do think that Korea should get more spots then. I agree with the extra spots. In my opinion, the current systems favors the NA and EU players, and makes it tougher on the koreans. Probably region lock with more spots (quite a lot more, considering the huge amount of damn good koreans) and a bit higher prize pool would make it fair. The downside would probably be that WCS NA and maybe EU would get as much viewers.
Skill level is great, but sponsorship and viewership numbers are of equal importance. For example if EU has the most viewership numbers by some margin than EU should receive the most money.
From what I've heard tho, it seems KR received the most viewership numbers and than EU and than NA, so there is some merit to having Korea receive more prize money in their qualification to the season finals.
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Makes no sense to call this competition an American tournament if non-Americans can participate in it.
Would be funny if French swimmers could qualify to the Olympics from African countries, or other non-sense like this, in the name of "athletical prowess".
This is so stupid that ones might wonder if Blizzard is not trying to make a political point about "globalization".
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On June 04 2013 02:29 SiroKO wrote:
Makes no sense to call this competition an American tournament if non-Americans can participate in it.
Would be funny if French swimmers could qualify to the Olympics from African countries, or other non-sense like this, in the name of "athletical prowess".
This is so stupid that ones might wonder if Blizzard is not trying to make a political point about "globalization".
These tournaments aren't as much about nationality as they are about what region you're playing sc2 in.
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On June 04 2013 02:29 SiroKO wrote:
Makes no sense to call this competition an American tournament if non-Americans can participate in it.
Guess the US Open is a shitty name for a tennis tournament, then.
On June 04 2013 02:29 SiroKO wrote:
Would be funny if French swimmers could qualify to the Olympics from African countries, or other non-sense like this, in the name of "athletical prowess".
Happens relatively often with the saudi and qatari representatives, actually.
But hey, let's ignore that. Athletes in the olympics are representatives of their nations, they have medal counts and they compete on a national level. Starcraft is on a much more individual level. When a korean beats a foreigner, nobody goes like, "YEAH KOREA". Yet some people are happy, because they happen to know and like the player that won.
In that type of scene, it makes a lot more sense to try and unite the best possible players, and a lot less sense to go national.
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On June 04 2013 01:15 StreetWise wrote:
While its always fun to watch high quality games, when I hear things like 'World Championship' I expect things to be more, like the olympics or world cup. There are some athletes from some countries that wouldn't even make it on a college team here in the US, but they get to compete. I don't see why this cant be the same for WCS. NA sucks, I get it, but we should still have NA players representing the region. I realise that everyone would say that Korean qualifiers would basically be the same things as the finals and that is ok. We need a competition where each region gets their own tournament with a few regional players going on to represent the players.
You just need to change your expectations... Like you would when you hear "the world series". Or how it's accepted that the NBA finals or Super Bowl are the "world championships" of their respected sports.
We could end up in a situation like Hockey where the 'world championships' (F* you Sweden) take a second seat to the Lord Stanley's Cup (top players often skip the wc for cup playoffs)...
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USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA
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On June 04 2013 02:54 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 02:29 SiroKO wrote:
Makes no sense to call this competition an American tournament if non-Americans can participate in it.
Guess the US Open is a shitty name for a tennis tournament, then. Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 02:29 SiroKO wrote:
Would be funny if French swimmers could qualify to the Olympics from African countries, or other non-sense like this, in the name of "athletical prowess".
Happens relatively often with the saudi and qatari representatives, actually. But hey, let's ignore that. Athletes in the olympics are representatives of their nations, they have medal counts and they compete on a national level. Starcraft is on a much more individual level. When a korean beats a foreigner, nobody goes like, "YEAH KOREA". Yet some people are happy, because they happen to know and like the player that won. In that type of scene, it makes a lot more sense to try and unite the best possible players, and a lot less sense to go national.
Every Olympics the NHL teams break apart and each player plays for their "home country."
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United States5077 Posts
On June 04 2013 06:13 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 02:54 Nebuchad wrote:On June 04 2013 02:29 SiroKO wrote:
Makes no sense to call this competition an American tournament if non-Americans can participate in it.
Guess the US Open is a shitty name for a tennis tournament, then. On June 04 2013 02:29 SiroKO wrote:
Would be funny if French swimmers could qualify to the Olympics from African countries, or other non-sense like this, in the name of "athletical prowess".
Happens relatively often with the saudi and qatari representatives, actually. But hey, let's ignore that. Athletes in the olympics are representatives of their nations, they have medal counts and they compete on a national level. Starcraft is on a much more individual level. When a korean beats a foreigner, nobody goes like, "YEAH KOREA". Yet some people are happy, because they happen to know and like the player that won. In that type of scene, it makes a lot more sense to try and unite the best possible players, and a lot less sense to go national. Every Olympics the NHL teams break apart and each player plays for their "home country."
Right and this isn't the olympics. Its a global league with sattelite qualifiers. Starstruck has finally won me over but people really need to start realizing that there are part of a larger qualification structure. Think of WCS AM as the America Based Qualifier for WCS finals. All it indicates is where the Live Finals take place.
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United States5077 Posts
oops double post, don't even know how I managed to do that.
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EPT
