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Active: 685 users

[SPL] CJ Entus vs. STX SouL R5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
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JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 07:51:55
May 18 2013 23:15 GMT
#1
[image loading]
by: BisuDagger

Sunday, May 19 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Round_5
[image loading]
TL Preview: Risk Takers



[image loading]

[image loading] twitch.tv | [image loading] youtube | [image loading] youtube



[image loading][image loading][image loading]

(P)Bong <Korhal Floating Island> (T)INnoVation
<Newkirk Redevelopment Precint>
<Naro Station>
<New Fighting Spirit>
<Whirlwind>
<Neo Planet S>
<Bel'Shir Vestige>



[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [Spoiler-Free] +
+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +
(P)Bong <Korhal Floating Island> (T)INnoVation

+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +
(Z)Hydra <Newkirk Redevelopment Precint> (T)INnoVation

+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +
(Z)EffOrt <Naro Station> (T)INnoVation

+ Show Spoiler [Game 4] +
(P)herO[jOin] <New Fighting Spirit> (T)INnoVation

+ Show Spoiler [Game 5] +
<Whirlwind>

+ Show Spoiler [Game 6] +
<Neo Planet S>

+ Show Spoiler [Game 7] +
<Bel'Shir Vestige>


+ Show Spoiler [Overall Results] +

(P)Bong <Korhal Floating Island> (T)INnoVation
(Z)Hydra <Newkirk Redevelopment Precint> (T)INnoVation
(Z)EffOrt <Naro Station> (T)INnoVation
(P)herO[jOin] <New Fighting Spirit> (T)INnoVation
<Whirlwind>
<Neo Planet S>
<Bel'Shir Vestige>




STX wins 4-0!





[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +
Poll: Recommend Set 1?

Yes (17)
 
77%

If you have time (4)
 
18%

No (1)
 
5%

22 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 1?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time



+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +
Poll: Recommend Set 2?

Yes (23)
 
79%

No (6)
 
21%

If you have time (0)
 
0%

29 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 2?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time



+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +
Poll: Recommend Set 3?

Yes (33)
 
97%

No (1)
 
3%

If you have time (0)
 
0%

34 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 3?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time



+ Show Spoiler [Game 4] +
Poll: Recommend Set 4?

Yes (20)
 
95%

No (1)
 
5%

If you have time (0)
 
0%

21 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 4?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time



+ Show Spoiler [Game 5] +
Poll: Recommend Set 5?

Yes (9)
 
53%

No (6)
 
35%

If you have time (2)
 
12%

17 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 5?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time



+ Show Spoiler [Game 6] +
Poll: Recommend Set 6?

Yes (6)
 
40%

No (6)
 
40%

If you have time (3)
 
20%

15 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 6?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time



+ Show Spoiler [Game 7] +
Poll: Recommend Set 7?

Yes (12)
 
71%

If you have time (4)
 
24%

No (1)
 
6%

17 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 7?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time






[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +
[image loading] twitch.tv | [image loading] youtube

+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +
[image loading] twitch.tv | [image loading] youtube

+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +
[image loading] twitch.tv | [image loading] youtube

+ Show Spoiler [Game 4] +
[image loading] twitch.tv | [image loading] youtube

+ Show Spoiler [Game 5] +
[image loading] twitch.tv | [image loading] youtube

+ Show Spoiler [Game 6] +
[image loading] twitch.tv | [image loading] youtube

+ Show Spoiler [Game 7] +
[image loading] twitch.tv | [image loading] youtube
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
May 18 2013 23:19 GMT
#2
Dear reverse allkill, mark my words.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
crashonly
Profile Joined June 2010
Finland418 Posts
May 18 2013 23:57 GMT
#3
Expecting Bogus to rank up some kills!

Too bad SPL maches rarely start at a convenient hour for me I'm off to bed now and will have to catch up with VODs on the morrow.
iMrising
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States1099 Posts
May 18 2013 23:58 GMT
#4
HYDRA HYDRA HYDRA please do well so I dont regret not trading you for innovationnnnnnnnnnn
stx soul only plays once this week
$O$ | soO
asdfOu
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2089 Posts
May 19 2013 01:33 GMT
#5
hyvaa/last/BoGus all kill please
rip prime
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 01:37 GMT
#6
This match doesn't affect my FPL score whatsoever! I hope Innovation and herO play well!
jjakji fan
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
May 19 2013 01:57 GMT
#7
Inno allkill pls!
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
May 19 2013 01:57 GMT
#8
On May 19 2013 08:19 The_Templar wrote:
Dear reverse allkill, mark my words.


That makes zero sense considering Cj is starting Bong and STX is going with Bogus. ._.
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
May 19 2013 02:02 GMT
#9
Hey guys I'm currently in gangnam seoul. Is this being played near where I am?
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
May 19 2013 02:17 GMT
#10
On May 19 2013 11:02 Golgotha wrote:
Hey guys I'm currently in gangnam seoul. Is this being played near where I am?


Its being played at yongsan, maybe 30 min away or so.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 02:31 GMT
#11

&#91;image loading&#93;
by: BisuDagger
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 02:40:39
May 19 2013 02:37 GMT
#12
(P)Bong < (T)INnoVation

CJ attempts to send their TvT Sniper: Skyhigh
(T)sKyHigh < (T)INnoVation

Doesnt want to send out zerg player: CJ herO[join]
(P)HerO < (T)INnoVation

**** this. Sends out older version of life: effort
(Z)EffOrt > (T)INnoVation

STX: Wat? Uh..Hyvaa?
(Z)EffOrt > (Z)hyvaa

STX: RELEASE THE TRAP CARD!
(Z)EffOrt > (P)Trap

STX: Oh dear....
(Z)EffOrt > (P)Dear

4-3.
CJ.
xluik
Profile Joined September 2012
201 Posts
May 19 2013 02:38 GMT
#13
keep rocking out innovation. all-kill pls.
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9021 Posts
May 19 2013 03:02 GMT
#14
Cheering for CJ. Go Effort!.
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
May 19 2013 03:05 GMT
#15
Morning everyone Subway + PL = Breakfast
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
May 19 2013 03:06 GMT
#16
Don't send out Effort, Hydra, or hyvaa. Seriously, Bogus will just eat them up.
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 03:08 GMT
#17
On May 19 2013 12:06 Kommander wrote:
Don't send out Effort, Hydra, or hyvaa. Seriously, Bogus will just eat them up.

How does bogus eat up hyvaa :s...
Sein
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1811 Posts
May 19 2013 03:08 GMT
#18
Is it just me or is Whiplash's voice only audible on one side?
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 03:08 GMT
#19
On May 19 2013 12:05 Arceus wrote:
Morning everyone Subway + PL = Breakfast

There's subway in Vietnam??
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 03:09 GMT
#20
Comet's parents are here..maybe he'll get sent out haha
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 03:09 GMT
#21
What's with random greek mythology pics lol, cmon bisudagger you're better than this.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 03:09 GMT
#22
Innovation gonna DOMINATE! :D
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Sein
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1811 Posts
May 19 2013 03:10 GMT
#23
On May 19 2013 12:08 Sein wrote:
Is it just me or is Whiplash's voice only audible on one side?


Ok, now it's been fixed.
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
May 19 2013 03:11 GMT
#24
On May 19 2013 12:08 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:05 Arceus wrote:
Morning everyone Subway + PL = Breakfast

There's subway in Vietnam??

yeah like $6 a foot long. Local subs taste better at one-fifth the price
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 03:12 GMT
#25
nice work Innovation, now finish him with those marines
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
leo23
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3075 Posts
May 19 2013 03:12 GMT
#26
On May 19 2013 12:10 Sein wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:08 Sein wrote:
Is it just me or is Whiplash's voice only audible on one side?


Ok, now it's been fixed.

YEAH my right ear was getting raped but they fixed it
banelings
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 03:13 GMT
#27
On May 19 2013 12:11 Arceus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:08 LighT. wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:05 Arceus wrote:
Morning everyone Subway + PL = Breakfast

There's subway in Vietnam??

yeah like $6 a foot long. Local subs taste better at one-fifth the price

$6 a foot long is pretty fair dear, basically what it costs here.
local subs at 1/5 the price..holy moly o.o..
Talionis
Profile Joined November 2010
Scotland4085 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 03:16:57
May 19 2013 03:15 GMT
#28
It's been a long time since I've seen Phoenix Colossus

Go Bong
Oh shit a fleet beacon.

slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 03:16 GMT
#29
Not sure how one could fake out a revelation? Seems like you'd just have to play straight up with the revealed units.
jjakji fan
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
May 19 2013 03:17 GMT
#30
lol Skytoss PvT?
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru10078 Posts
May 19 2013 03:17 GMT
#31
skytoss? interesting
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
May 19 2013 03:18 GMT
#32
--- Nuked ---
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
May 19 2013 03:18 GMT
#33
You play defensive against this style right? Because mass phoenix compositions are weak when you have ghost viking.
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 03:19 GMT
#34
what is happening i thought he was gonna go carrier
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
May 19 2013 03:19 GMT
#35
Sick mine bait!
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Talionis
Profile Joined November 2010
Scotland4085 Posts
May 19 2013 03:20 GMT
#36
Those fucking mine hits
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 03:20 GMT
#37
HAHAHA the widow mines omg
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
May 19 2013 03:20 GMT
#38
OMG THAT MINE TRAP
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
May 19 2013 03:20 GMT
#39
--- Nuked ---
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
May 19 2013 03:20 GMT
#40
Still it's going to be 3/1 marines vs 1/1 toss...
Yhamm is the god of predictions
leo23
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3075 Posts
May 19 2013 03:20 GMT
#41
man innovation is something else
banelings
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 03:20 GMT
#42
:O those mines changed everything
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru10078 Posts
May 19 2013 03:20 GMT
#43
that bait! so good..
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 03:21 GMT
#44
Well at the very least this was something new, bogus owns nevertheless.
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 03:24:31
May 19 2013 03:23 GMT
#45
as long as Bong doesnt botched the phoenix play, he still has a chance

edit: too much bio -_-
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 03:23 GMT
#46
colossus melt like butter
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
May 19 2013 03:24 GMT
#47
Poll: Recommend Set 1?

Yes (17)
 
77%

If you have time (4)
 
18%

No (1)
 
5%

22 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 1?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time

ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
ThomasR
Profile Joined January 2012
764 Posts
May 19 2013 03:24 GMT
#48
On May 19 2013 12:23 megapants wrote:
colossus melt like butter

well yea with no ground support
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
May 19 2013 03:24 GMT
#49
--- Nuked ---
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 03:24 GMT
#50
Good job Innovation.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
May 19 2013 03:24 GMT
#51
That was cool ^^
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
jdsarge
Profile Joined October 2010
United States308 Posts
May 19 2013 03:24 GMT
#52
Innovation is way too good.
wangstra
Profile Joined March 2011
922 Posts
May 19 2013 03:24 GMT
#53
Damn I would have liked to see Toss win there, love seeing phoenix action.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
May 19 2013 03:25 GMT
#54
--- Nuked ---
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 03:25 GMT
#55
Harsh that a novel opening by Bong has to face its first test against someone like Innovation.
jjakji fan
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
May 19 2013 03:25 GMT
#56
Innovation with the finger wag: "Not on my watch!"
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 19 2013 03:25 GMT
#57
Innovation too solid
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 03:25 GMT
#58
nice innovation! no ground support for colossi, bad idea lol
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
May 19 2013 03:25 GMT
#59
On May 19 2013 12:24 Emzeeshady wrote:
Bong needed a bunch of zealots

Wouldn't have done much, his ground upgrades were terrible
Yhamm is the god of predictions
RandomPlayer
Profile Joined April 2012
Russian Federation394 Posts
May 19 2013 03:25 GMT
#60
I just tuned in, didnt see inno game! oh dang!
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 03:26 GMT
#61
Also great revelations by Bong, he was really getting the most out of that oracle.
jjakji fan
Khalleb
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1909 Posts
May 19 2013 03:26 GMT
#62
BogusvZ HYPEEEE
Liquid'Nony: "I only needed one probe to take down idra. I had to upgrade to a zealot for strelok."
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 03:26 GMT
#63
Should've traded like half the colossi for a couple of templars imo.
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9021 Posts
May 19 2013 03:26 GMT
#64
Innovation TvZ!!!. Too bad it's on Newkirt RP.
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 19 2013 03:27 GMT
#65
On May 19 2013 12:25 Scarecrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:24 Emzeeshady wrote:
Bong needed a bunch of zealots

Wouldn't have done much, his ground upgrades were terrible


Maybe a few sentries for forcefields? He needed a way to prevent the bio from swarming the collosi.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 03:27 GMT
#66
On May 19 2013 12:26 rj rl wrote:
Should've traded like half the colossi for a couple of templars imo.

i agree, templars seem way more effective at dealing with both bio and vikings
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 03:28 GMT
#67
On May 19 2013 12:27 megapants wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:26 rj rl wrote:
Should've traded like half the colossi for a couple of templars imo.

i agree, templars seem way more effective at dealing with both bio and vikings

he needed colossi though because what on earth would bogus have had vikings for otherwise.
Elerris
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia137 Posts
May 19 2013 03:30 GMT
#68
Anyone able to tell me who the Casters are?
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 03:31 GMT
#69
Who's sent for the 2nd game?
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 03:32 GMT
#70
On May 19 2013 12:31 LighT. wrote:
Who's sent for the 2nd game?

Hydra
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 03:32 GMT
#71
Hydra is next
jjakji fan
ThomasR
Profile Joined January 2012
764 Posts
May 19 2013 03:34 GMT
#72
On May 19 2013 12:30 Elerris wrote:
Anyone able to tell me who the Casters are?

supernovamaniac (korean guy) + whiplash (white guy)
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
May 19 2013 03:35 GMT
#73
I guess Hydra has a specific plan for INnoVation? #1 vZ player vs a zerg who overall hasn't shown the best ZvT in sc2
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
May 19 2013 03:35 GMT
#74
Wait...what? They send a zerg agaisnt Innovation ?
They better have a good sniping build, because the "classical macro game" is not gonna cut it
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 19 2013 03:35 GMT
#75
On May 19 2013 12:35 Shellshock1122 wrote:
I guess Hydra has a specific plan for INnoVation? #1 vZ player vs a zerg who overall hasn't shown the best ZvT in sc2


6 Pool
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 03:36 GMT
#76
On May 19 2013 12:35 Shellshock1122 wrote:
I guess Hydra has a specific plan for INnoVation? #1 vZ player vs a zerg who overall hasn't shown the best ZvT in sc2

Let's hope so otherwise 2-0
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
May 19 2013 03:36 GMT
#77
This comment comes from 15 min in the future :
"Hydra, you nydus my heart <3"
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 03:36 GMT
#78
On May 19 2013 12:35 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:35 Shellshock1122 wrote:
I guess Hydra has a specific plan for INnoVation? #1 vZ player vs a zerg who overall hasn't shown the best ZvT in sc2


6 Pool

lol, well seeing the way Innovation micro'd those hellions of his against lifelings, good luck with that 6 pool
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 03:38 GMT
#79
Innovation is too school for cool.
jjakji fan
DMXD
Profile Joined February 2008
United States4064 Posts
May 19 2013 03:38 GMT
#80
gas before pool....o-o Hyrda busting out something special for bogus.
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 03:39 GMT
#81
KT Zergs huh
jjakji fan
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 03:41 GMT
#82
Nice pictures!
jjakji fan
Dudasc
Profile Joined October 2012
Brazil286 Posts
May 19 2013 03:41 GMT
#83
lol dat camera man
ThomasR
Profile Joined January 2012
764 Posts
May 19 2013 03:45 GMT
#84
too many banes, not enough roaches..?
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
May 19 2013 03:45 GMT
#85
lol Hydra what was that
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 19 2013 03:45 GMT
#86
That bust got busted
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
May 19 2013 03:45 GMT
#87
this man is not human...
SooYoung-Noona!
Talionis
Profile Joined November 2010
Scotland4085 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 03:45:57
May 19 2013 03:45 GMT
#88
That was a disaster

What the hell was that.

A free medivac is always nice though
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 03:45 GMT
#89
Maybe he didn't expect THAT many mines..
jjakji fan
Ranir
Profile Joined June 2011
413 Posts
May 19 2013 03:45 GMT
#90
that was too good, innovation is the god
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9642 Posts
May 19 2013 03:45 GMT
#91
.... wat the hell was that
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 03:45 GMT
#92
wow getting that drop was pretty huge
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
May 19 2013 03:46 GMT
#93
it's like hydra spreads zerg creep to Innovation's face
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
May 19 2013 03:47 GMT
#94
I feel like when you factor in the Bogus factor, Innovation is ahead right now.
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 03:47 GMT
#95
denied 3 medivacs and an attack; hydra looking to be in a pretty good spot
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9642 Posts
May 19 2013 03:48 GMT
#96
another drop
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 03:48 GMT
#97
omg gets ANOTHER drop, innovation too careless with these medivacs
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
May 19 2013 03:48 GMT
#98
With good overlord placement it's really hard to drop on this map.
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 03:48 GMT
#99
4th medivac killed :O
jjakji fan
Sein
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1811 Posts
May 19 2013 03:49 GMT
#100
Hydra is on top of those drops.. immediate reactions.
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 03:49 GMT
#101
Innovation with great bio spread but Hydra with many unit.
jjakji fan
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
May 19 2013 03:49 GMT
#102
hydra denies every single drop o_o
his mines awareness still sucks though
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
May 19 2013 03:50 GMT
#103
innovation lost like 5 dropships without doing any damage and won anyway..
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
Dudasc
Profile Joined October 2012
Brazil286 Posts
May 19 2013 03:50 GMT
#104
nice window mine micro
Magic_Mike
Profile Joined May 2010
United States542 Posts
May 19 2013 03:50 GMT
#105
Drinking game. Shot every time they say "at this point."
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
May 19 2013 03:50 GMT
#106
Okay, Innovation starting to overwhelm Hydra.
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9642 Posts
May 19 2013 03:51 GMT
#107
lost to many units to mines
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Magic_Mike
Profile Joined May 2010
United States542 Posts
May 19 2013 03:51 GMT
#108
On May 19 2013 12:50 IshinShishi wrote:
innovation lost like 5 dropships without doing any damage and won anyway..


How is this even possible? A tear in the fabric of reality.
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 03:51 GMT
#109
he's actually losing everything, how did this happen lol
Talionis
Profile Joined November 2010
Scotland4085 Posts
May 19 2013 03:51 GMT
#110
Suddenly marines literally everywhere

You played a good game though, Hydra
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 03:51 GMT
#111
this is brutal lol
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Tayar
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1439 Posts
May 19 2013 03:51 GMT
#112
hydra shuts down drops so innovation just walks a group of marines around top to hit the right-middle expansion. GG
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
May 19 2013 03:51 GMT
#113
Poll: Recommend Set 2?

Yes (23)
 
79%

No (6)
 
21%

If you have time (0)
 
0%

29 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 2?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time

ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 19 2013 03:52 GMT
#114
And Innovation kills the Zerg
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
May 19 2013 03:52 GMT
#115
On May 19 2013 12:50 IshinShishi wrote:
innovation lost like 5 dropships without doing any damage and won anyway..


his macro was just wayyy better
savior did nothing wrong
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 03:52 GMT
#116
yea...if you want to send a zerg..send out effort..not hydra..
Meerel
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany713 Posts
May 19 2013 03:52 GMT
#117
what happended ?
SDMF
Taipoka
Profile Joined November 2012
Brazil1224 Posts
May 19 2013 03:52 GMT
#118
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.
And in the 7th day, Flash stopped macroing the universe.
sage_francis
Profile Joined December 2006
France1823 Posts
May 19 2013 03:52 GMT
#119
starting with innovation is a good talent toi have
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 19 2013 03:52 GMT
#120
Will Innovation be the first player in PL to get 3 All kills?
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
May 19 2013 03:52 GMT
#121
lol CJ I told you to not send zergs out today :p
sparklyresidue
Profile Joined August 2011
United States5523 Posts
May 19 2013 03:52 GMT
#122
vs. Innovation, the burden is on the Zerg to hurt his enon. It seems if you just deny drops and defend okay, you can't keep up economically with him.
Like Tinkerbelle, I leave behind a sparkly residue.
petered
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1817 Posts
May 19 2013 03:53 GMT
#123
On May 19 2013 12:52 LighT. wrote:
yea...if you want to send a zerg..send out effort..not hydra..

Personally I wouldn't go anywhere near a zerg when Innovation is out there.
This, my friends, is the power of the Shikyo Memorial for QQ therapy thread. We make the world a better place, one chainsaw massacre prevention at a time.
Empirimancer
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada1024 Posts
May 19 2013 03:53 GMT
#124
On May 19 2013 12:51 megapants wrote:
he's actually losing everything, how did this happen lol


Widow mines.

Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
May 19 2013 03:53 GMT
#125
suddenly Inno's triple drops kill 2 hatches & pool with crackling being researched gg T_T
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
May 19 2013 03:53 GMT
#126
That's just brutal.

Hydra denies every drop for the first 15 minutes of the game, repeatedly crushes Innovation's army, and is 50 supply up.

Then 1 mediocre engagement and he gets 4-pronged attacked and dies.

Geeeeeeeeeeez.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 03:53 GMT
#127
Epportu!
Thinasy
Profile Joined March 2011
2856 Posts
May 19 2013 03:53 GMT
#128
That game was so weird, I felt like Hydra was going to win for quite some time since none of the drops worked out, he probably should have taken a 5th and gone for infestors/ultras way earlier maybe
Jaedong & Faker
Greenei
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1754 Posts
May 19 2013 03:53 GMT
#129
On May 19 2013 12:50 Magic_Mike wrote:
Drinking game. Shot every time they say "at this point."


or when snm says 'to deal against' instead of 'to deal with'. it makes me so mad. but i guess i just have to deal against it.
IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 19 2013 03:53 GMT
#130
Feed him Zergs.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
asoka
Profile Joined November 2010
17 Posts
May 19 2013 03:53 GMT
#131
Tactic: Time to press the win button
JackRipper
Profile Joined August 2010
79 Posts
May 19 2013 03:54 GMT
#132
Maybe he missed a round of injects or tried to go for +3/+3/adrenal glands/ultra cavern and had no gas for banes? Regardless, Innovation's continuous push is really scary. I don't think any zerg can win against that if innovation gets to 3 bases unscathed.
DMXD
Profile Joined February 2008
United States4064 Posts
May 19 2013 03:54 GMT
#133
effort up next!
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 03:54 GMT
#134
On May 19 2013 12:52 EleanorRIgby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:50 IshinShishi wrote:
innovation lost like 5 dropships without doing any damage and won anyway..


his macro was just wayyy better

this. Innovation had better macro I think. Also, Innovation kept Hydra's mutas busy with the drops and outmultitasked him. Either way, I thought Hydra was doing well but he kept on running his units into widow mines and eventually he got overwhelmed slowly by Innovation.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
May 19 2013 03:54 GMT
#135
Well, now Innovation is 15-1 in TvZ in Hots...
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 03:54:42
May 19 2013 03:54 GMT
#136
Yayyyy I get to watch my team get 4-0'd.

herO is the only one who *might* have a chance, and I really doubt he can stop Bogus.
Dudasc
Profile Joined October 2012
Brazil286 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 03:55:29
May 19 2013 03:54 GMT
#137
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.

User was temp banned for this post.
Empirimancer
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada1024 Posts
May 19 2013 03:54 GMT
#138
On May 19 2013 12:52 sparklyresidue wrote:
vs. Innovation, the burden is on the Zerg to hurt his enon. It seems if you just deny drops and defend okay, you can't keep up economically with him.


I haven't seen a Zerg manage to be aggressive against Innovation or Flash in a macro game. They're too busy defending against everything the Terran throws at them.

Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
May 19 2013 03:54 GMT
#139
well, i think the timing of the triple drop at the end was extremely unlucky for hydra.

btw why is cj continuing to feed zergs to innovation?
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 03:57:23
May 19 2013 03:55 GMT
#140
Hydra denied drops well but that big ling bane bust just before mutas was really bad, he also took a long time to get his 4th up and mining. Innovation also's macroed well and took a 4th whilst applying constant pressure.

On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.


If you think that was the first mistake by Hydra that game you shouldn't be commenting.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 03:56:35
May 19 2013 03:56 GMT
#141
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timied) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.

lol what are you talking about? buildings tons of banelings early on to just throw them away is no mistake in your eyes? without this early investment, hydra's economy and tech could have been much better when the deadly triple drop occurred.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
May 19 2013 03:56 GMT
#142
Innovation right now is playing so well.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
May 19 2013 03:56 GMT
#143
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timied) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.


you have to realize terran units are more expendable than zerg units. Hydra had the worst baneling control, and on top of that his roach bane timing did 0 dmg. Having those 2 things happen vs innovation, with godlike macro.. it doesn't matter how many medivacs you kill because marines and mines come out faster than lings at a certain point. It is just a steady never ending stream.. So yea hydra deserved to lose, too many mistakes.
Question.?
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 03:57 GMT
#144
Korean Terran INnoVation is going for an AK
指原莉乃 應援
hai2u
Profile Joined September 2011
688 Posts
May 19 2013 03:57 GMT
#145
Hydra lost too many units to mines.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 03:57 GMT
#146
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.

The only terran players that we've seen that are able to really multitask and dare I say outmacro a zerg are innovation or flash so saying terran is generalizing a bit.

On May 19 2013 12:54 Black Gun wrote:
well, i think the timing of the triple drop at the end was extremely unlucky for hydra.

btw why is cj continuing to feed zergs to innovation?

he's a hungry fellow
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
sage_francis
Profile Joined December 2006
France1823 Posts
May 19 2013 03:57 GMT
#147
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.

lol are you serious?
omisa
Profile Joined January 2011
United States494 Posts
May 19 2013 03:57 GMT
#148
GOGO Innovation all kill!
\m/
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 03:57 GMT
#149
On May 19 2013 12:54 kubiks wrote:
Well, now Innovation is 15-1 in TvZ in Hots...

just points out how good soulkey actually is.
Highwinds
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada955 Posts
May 19 2013 03:57 GMT
#150
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.


at the same time when a zerg is that god awful ar microing baneligns vs widow mines it doesnt matter how much you kill in medivacs. The groups of blings dieing to widow mine shots were much more expensive than the medivac pick offs. He also tried to get all of his tech at once and spend all his gas while he had no banelings and no static defense
Yes It's a Good Day. 저는 아이유 사랑해요!
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
May 19 2013 03:57 GMT
#151
On May 19 2013 12:54 Empirimancer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:52 sparklyresidue wrote:
vs. Innovation, the burden is on the Zerg to hurt his enon. It seems if you just deny drops and defend okay, you can't keep up economically with him.


I haven't seen a Zerg manage to be aggressive against Innovation or Flash in a macro game. They're too busy defending against everything the Terran throws at them.



Soulkey
That's the only loss of Innovtion in TvZ in Hots -_-.
And if you didn't saw it, the third game of Stephano vs thorzain in WCS, Stephano was in a bad spot, decied to be agressive and won outright.
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 03:57 GMT
#152
So the score is 2-0. Poor CJ
指原莉乃 應援
deceptionx
Profile Joined June 2011
United States152 Posts
May 19 2013 03:57 GMT
#153
Innovation's macro is just so beastly.
Dudasc
Profile Joined October 2012
Brazil286 Posts
May 19 2013 03:57 GMT
#154
On May 19 2013 12:56 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timied) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.

lol what are you talking about? buildings tons of banelings early on to just throw them away is no mistake in your eyes? without this early investment, hydra's economy and tech could have been much better when the deadly triple drop occurred.


Innovation lost 2 medivacs right after that attack so it didnt really matter that much. It was a very late bust too so economy wise they were fine. You also have to consider the fake bane roach all in that made hydra economy be better than usual at the begining of the game
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 03:58 GMT
#155
INnoVation macros so well.
指原莉乃 應援
petered
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1817 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 03:59:21
May 19 2013 03:58 GMT
#156
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.



or maybe innovation is just better at the game than hydra and macroed him into the ground with brute force, which he does every game. I don't understand why people forget about skill differences when analyzing a game. Innovation could make mistakes and still win because he is a better player than hydra, not because the game is at fault.

EDIT: 1000 posts! Been spamming the tourney threads recently and that milestone just snuck up on me lol.
This, my friends, is the power of the Shikyo Memorial for QQ therapy thread. We make the world a better place, one chainsaw massacre prevention at a time.
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 19 2013 03:58 GMT
#157
Innovation reminds me of late 2011, early 2012 MMA v Z with the multi-pronged harassed backed by strong macro, but he's even more dangerous and powerful IMO because he uses widow mines and medivac boosts so well. Such a pleasure to watch him play
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
catplanetcatplanet
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3830 Posts
May 19 2013 03:59 GMT
#158
On May 19 2013 12:58 petered wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.



or maybe innovation is just better at the game than hydra and macroed him into the ground with brute force, which he does every game. I don't understand why people forget about skill differences when analyzing a game. Innovation could make mistakes and still win because he is a better player than hydra, not because the game is at fault.


two 1ks on the same page! squee
I think it's finally time to admit it might not be the year of Pet
DBS
Profile Joined July 2012
515 Posts
May 19 2013 03:59 GMT
#159
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.


Hydra kept losing WWAAAYYY to much vs the mines, the only reason he stayed alive so long was the number of failed drops
"a pitchfork is for hay. a trident is for killing bitches." -djwheat
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 03:59 GMT
#160
effOrt is good but he's no SoulKey.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
May 19 2013 03:59 GMT
#161
Pretty much every time he detected a mine he blew a baneling on it. Hardly efficient.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Dudasc
Profile Joined October 2012
Brazil286 Posts
May 19 2013 04:00 GMT
#162
On May 19 2013 12:57 Highwinds wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.


at the same time when a zerg is that god awful ar microing baneligns vs widow mines it doesnt matter how much you kill in medivacs. The groups of blings dieing to widow mine shots were much more expensive than the medivac pick offs. He also tried to get all of his tech at once and spend all his gas while he had no banelings and no static defense


do you really think you can micro/engage bane/ling cost efficient vs mines? Theres no micro that makes it bane vs mine worth unless the terran fucks up on positioning them, the radius (5) and damage (1 shot kill) is just too much. And its quite obivous why zergs dont have static defense on most games, you just cant afford. Do you even play this game at all?
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
May 19 2013 04:01 GMT
#163
On May 19 2013 12:58 Bagration wrote:
Innovation reminds me of late 2011, early 2012 MMA v Z with the multi-pronged harassed backed by strong macro, but he's even more dangerous and powerful IMO because he uses widow mines and medivac boosts so well. Such a pleasure to watch him play



yep, their play is very similiar. They both send dropships knowing that they will probably die, through overlord vision. But they make up for it with improving their position on the map while the dropship is in the air, and taking the lead economically. It is a really bold play
Question.?
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:02 GMT
#164
effOrt should CHEESE just like HerO did to Flash yesterday.
EG-TL may lose, but Flash's AK shall be terminated ;P
指原莉乃 應援
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:02 GMT
#165
Flash and INnoVation are top Terrans today
指原莉乃 應援
sage_francis
Profile Joined December 2006
France1823 Posts
May 19 2013 04:02 GMT
#166
On May 19 2013 13:00 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:57 Highwinds wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.


at the same time when a zerg is that god awful ar microing baneligns vs widow mines it doesnt matter how much you kill in medivacs. The groups of blings dieing to widow mine shots were much more expensive than the medivac pick offs. He also tried to get all of his tech at once and spend all his gas while he had no banelings and no static defense


do you really think you can micro/engage bane/ling cost efficient vs mines? Theres no micro that makes it bane vs mine worth unless the terran fucks up on positioning them, the radius (5) and damage (1 shot kill) is just too much. And its quite obivous why zergs dont have static defense on most games, you just cant afford. Do you even play this game at all?

more tears plz
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 19 2013 04:03 GMT
#167
On May 19 2013 13:00 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:57 Highwinds wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.


at the same time when a zerg is that god awful ar microing baneligns vs widow mines it doesnt matter how much you kill in medivacs. The groups of blings dieing to widow mine shots were much more expensive than the medivac pick offs. He also tried to get all of his tech at once and spend all his gas while he had no banelings and no static defense


do you really think you can micro/engage bane/ling cost efficient vs mines? Theres no micro that makes it bane vs mine worth unless the terran fucks up on positioning them, the radius (5) and damage (1 shot kill) is just too much. And its quite obivous why zergs dont have static defense on most games, you just cant afford. Do you even play this game at all?


The problem isn't mines, the problem is Innovation's usage of mines. His positioning and control are just so solid
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
May 19 2013 04:03 GMT
#168
On May 19 2013 12:58 petered wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.



or maybe innovation is just better at the game than hydra and macroed him into the ground with brute force, which he does every game. I don't understand why people forget about skill differences when analyzing a game. Innovation could make mistakes and still win because he is a better player than hydra, not because the game is at fault.

EDIT: 1000 posts! Been spamming the tourney threads recently and that milestone just snuck up on me lol.


My only problem with this explaination is that Innovation crushes top zergs too, while not looking as godly in other matchups...
Or maybe he's worse in TvT jsut because the matchup is volatile
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
Irre
Profile Joined August 2010
United States646 Posts
May 19 2013 04:03 GMT
#169
I think also hydra repeatedly made a lot more mutas than needed. If you are going to only deny drops..why do you need that giant clump? that made those dropships not seem like such a loss because he spent so much to stop those drops
Dudasc
Profile Joined October 2012
Brazil286 Posts
May 19 2013 04:04 GMT
#170
On May 19 2013 13:03 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:00 Dudasc wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:57 Highwinds wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.


at the same time when a zerg is that god awful ar microing baneligns vs widow mines it doesnt matter how much you kill in medivacs. The groups of blings dieing to widow mine shots were much more expensive than the medivac pick offs. He also tried to get all of his tech at once and spend all his gas while he had no banelings and no static defense


do you really think you can micro/engage bane/ling cost efficient vs mines? Theres no micro that makes it bane vs mine worth unless the terran fucks up on positioning them, the radius (5) and damage (1 shot kill) is just too much. And its quite obivous why zergs dont have static defense on most games, you just cant afford. Do you even play this game at all?


The problem isn't mines, the problem is Innovation's usage of mines. His positioning and control are just so solid


Mines don't need control (You can unburrow but innovation didnt really bother microing it). All drops were not controlled (didnt even need actually)
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:04 GMT
#171
So many zergs from CJ today, maybe it's a real practise for INnoVation cuz his next rival is Symbol in GSL.
指原莉乃 應援
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:05 GMT
#172
ok guys I'm here, drunk, but I'm here and somehow manage to make a cj vs stx banner at the same time.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:05 GMT
#173
Invincible tvz skill INnoVation! <3
指原莉乃 應援
SniXSniPe
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1938 Posts
May 19 2013 04:06 GMT
#174
On May 19 2013 13:00 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 12:57 Highwinds wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.


at the same time when a zerg is that god awful ar microing baneligns vs widow mines it doesnt matter how much you kill in medivacs. The groups of blings dieing to widow mine shots were much more expensive than the medivac pick offs. He also tried to get all of his tech at once and spend all his gas while he had no banelings and no static defense


do you really think you can micro/engage bane/ling cost efficient vs mines? Theres no micro that makes it bane vs mine worth unless the terran fucks up on positioning them, the radius (5) and damage (1 shot kill) is just too much. And its quite obivous why zergs dont have static defense on most games, you just cant afford. Do you even play this game at all?


Just stop. You're probably not even up to masters league. Quit complaining and using the best player in the world as an example.
sage_francis
Profile Joined December 2006
France1823 Posts
May 19 2013 04:06 GMT
#175
On May 19 2013 13:04 Dudasc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:03 Bagration wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:00 Dudasc wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:57 Highwinds wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:54 Dudasc wrote:
On May 19 2013 12:52 Taipoka wrote:
Jesus. Wtf was that? hydra just disapeared.


Terran can get way with a lot of mistakes than protoss/zerg. Innovation lost 5-6 completely full medivacs (terribly timed) but they were both ended up even. Hydra makes the first mistake of the game and its over.


at the same time when a zerg is that god awful ar microing baneligns vs widow mines it doesnt matter how much you kill in medivacs. The groups of blings dieing to widow mine shots were much more expensive than the medivac pick offs. He also tried to get all of his tech at once and spend all his gas while he had no banelings and no static defense


do you really think you can micro/engage bane/ling cost efficient vs mines? Theres no micro that makes it bane vs mine worth unless the terran fucks up on positioning them, the radius (5) and damage (1 shot kill) is just too much. And its quite obivous why zergs dont have static defense on most games, you just cant afford. Do you even play this game at all?


The problem isn't mines, the problem is Innovation's usage of mines. His positioning and control are just so solid


Mines don't need control (You can unburrow but innovation didnt really bother microing it). All drops were not controlled (didnt even need actually)


Yeah we got it. Innovation is a terribad player and hes winning only because terrans, mines, medivacs and hellbats are OP. Ok now move on pls.
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:06 GMT
#176
On May 19 2013 13:05 BisuDagger wrote:
ok guys I'm here, drunk, but I'm here and somehow manage to make a cj vs stx banner at the same time.


GJ
指原莉乃 應援
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
May 19 2013 04:07 GMT
#177
Innovation too good wahah
The heart's eternal vow
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
May 19 2013 04:07 GMT
#178
On May 19 2013 13:04 [OGN]Remmy wrote:
So many zergs from CJ today, maybe it's a real practise for INnoVation cuz his next rival is Symbol in GSL.


Not sure going against your "regular macro zerg" is a good way to practice against symbol. Dem Nydus .
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:08 GMT
#179
I traded for effort anticipating his allkill.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 04:09 GMT
#180
On May 19 2013 13:05 BisuDagger wrote:
ok guys I'm here, drunk, but I'm here and somehow manage to make a cj vs stx banner at the same time.

sounds like you shouldn't have gotten drunk so you can enjoy PL
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:10 GMT
#181
On May 19 2013 12:54 kubiks wrote:
Well, now Innovation is 15-1 in TvZ in Hots...

He's still no Hitman ZvT though.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 04:10 GMT
#182
wow he looks like DRG :O
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
P7GAB
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada486 Posts
May 19 2013 04:10 GMT
#183
Efforts got this
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:10 GMT
#184
No EffOrt why did you let that in?
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:11 GMT
#185
On May 19 2013 13:09 BigFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:05 BisuDagger wrote:
ok guys I'm here, drunk, but I'm here and somehow manage to make a cj vs stx banner at the same time.

sounds like you shouldn't have gotten drunk so you can enjoy PL

I will always enjoy PL! I've been streaming SC I have an obligation to the fans
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 04:11 GMT
#186
Now THIS is practice against Symbol
jjakji fan
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
May 19 2013 04:11 GMT
#187
innovation barely not bopped
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:11 GMT
#188
On May 19 2013 13:07 kubiks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:04 [OGN]Remmy wrote:
So many zergs from CJ today, maybe it's a real practise for INnoVation cuz his next rival is Symbol in GSL.


Not sure going against your "regular macro zerg" is a good way to practice against symbol. Dem Nydus .


I wanna see what Symbol's irregular tactics are in GSL. So much fun and it's BO7, anything could happen.
指原莉乃 應援
negativedge
Profile Joined December 2011
4279 Posts
May 19 2013 04:11 GMT
#189
symbol just watched that and muttered a quick "fuck" to himself.
GreyKnight
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4720 Posts
May 19 2013 04:11 GMT
#190
still feels like innovation is in the lead with a 3rd CC
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44127 Posts
May 19 2013 04:12 GMT
#191
oh my god .. innovation with 92.3 % winrate in tvz .. really wish effort win's against innovation .. its kinda sucks that there is a player that has almost 100% win rate ..
this is a quote
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:12 GMT
#192
Nydus!!!!!!!! COOOOOL
指原莉乃 應援
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 04:12 GMT
#193
effort has the 4th base but no tech on the way, interested how he transitions
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
May 19 2013 04:12 GMT
#194
On May 19 2013 13:05 BisuDagger wrote:
ok guys I'm here, drunk, but I'm here and somehow manage to make a cj vs stx banner at the same time.

get sober basterd. Bisu playing in a few hours
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:12 GMT
#195
INnoVation is droppin'. That's his PACE <3
指原莉乃 應援
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:13 GMT
#196
I love nydus play.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:13 GMT
#197
On May 19 2013 13:12 Arceus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:05 BisuDagger wrote:
ok guys I'm here, drunk, but I'm here and somehow manage to make a cj vs stx banner at the same time.

get sober basterd. Bisu playing in a few hours

Imagine an skt thread with me drunk!
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
May 19 2013 04:13 GMT
#198
I feel like Innovation's gonna drop Effort to death soon.
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:13 GMT
#199
4base to just now 3base, I'm actually liking how this looks...
sage_francis
Profile Joined December 2006
France1823 Posts
May 19 2013 04:13 GMT
#200
love the fact that its not an all in nydus play
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 04:13 GMT
#201
On May 19 2013 13:11 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:09 BigFan wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:05 BisuDagger wrote:
ok guys I'm here, drunk, but I'm here and somehow manage to make a cj vs stx banner at the same time.

sounds like you shouldn't have gotten drunk so you can enjoy PL

I will always enjoy PL! I've been streaming SC I have an obligation to the fans

lol I see

On May 19 2013 13:12 Arceus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:05 BisuDagger wrote:
ok guys I'm here, drunk, but I'm here and somehow manage to make a cj vs stx banner at the same time.

get sober basterd. Bisu playing in a few hours

LOL
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:14 GMT
#202
But Calm is STX assistant coach now, and he's always good at tactis in BO games.
指原莉乃 應援
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
May 19 2013 04:14 GMT
#203
suddenly innovation wins battles everywhere and wins the game
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
May 19 2013 04:15 GMT
#204
Christ, drops, drops everywhere!
Refer to my post.
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 04:15 GMT
#205
effort needs to nydus worm his bases together against this shit
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:15 GMT
#206
See the flashing spots on mini map, here and there :O
指原莉乃 應援
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
May 19 2013 04:15 GMT
#207
Innovation is just wayyyy too good
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
May 19 2013 04:16 GMT
#208
On May 19 2013 13:13 Kommander wrote:
I feel like Innovation's gonna drop Effort to death soon.


good call
Question.?
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 04:16 GMT
#209
Innovation is gonna take this as long as doesn't let more banes at his SCVs lol
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
omisa
Profile Joined January 2011
United States494 Posts
May 19 2013 04:16 GMT
#210
Wow Innovation is damn good

\m/
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:16 GMT
#211
effOrt makes great pressure onto INnovation.
指原莉乃 應援
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:16 GMT
#212
What in the hell...
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:17:33
May 19 2013 04:16 GMT
#213
effort man you gotta macro, your ultra den is done remember???

seriously why would you go nydus into a 4th base and NOT nydus your bases together...
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:17 GMT
#214
Guess it's KeSPA's plot to let effOrt simulates Symbol's nydus in open matches.
指原莉乃 應援
negativedge
Profile Joined December 2011
4279 Posts
May 19 2013 04:17 GMT
#215
ho-hum, bogus stomping yet another top tier zerg
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:17 GMT
#216
This is frustrating to watch.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:17 GMT
#217
Innovation makes all the other candidates for "best player in the world" seem weak.
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
May 19 2013 04:18 GMT
#218
this is the best player in the world
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
May 19 2013 04:18 GMT
#219
I have the impression that effort thought he was doing ultra but he didn't.
I can't explain the huge floating ressources with the ultra den ready :/
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
Thinasy
Profile Joined March 2011
2856 Posts
May 19 2013 04:18 GMT
#220
I have no idea how to beat Innovation in this matchup. He's like a Oov in TvZ atm
Jaedong & Faker
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
May 19 2013 04:18 GMT
#221
On May 19 2013 13:17 evergreensc wrote:
Innovation makes all the other candidates for "best player in the world" seem weak.


except Turn.
Moderator
Talack
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada2742 Posts
May 19 2013 04:18 GMT
#222
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:19 GMT
#223
It's macro's game since now. Let's see.
指原莉乃 應援
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:19 GMT
#224
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy


yeah.
指原莉乃 應援
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 04:19 GMT
#225
On May 19 2013 13:18 Thinasy wrote:
I have no idea how to beat Innovation in this matchup. He's like a Oov in TvZ atm

but oov just macrod in his base then moved out and won lol. Innovation still has to micro drops and macro and such
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
May 19 2013 04:19 GMT
#226
On May 19 2013 13:17 negativedge wrote:
ho-hum, bogus stomping yet another top tier zerg

...top....tier?

In what way... I'm curious..
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:19 GMT
#227
reactors make having medivacs so easy, zerg has to make sure they can keep it low.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:20 GMT
#228
This game is GOOD
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:20 GMT
#229
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:20 GMT
#230
effOrt is technically not dead yet...!
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
May 19 2013 04:20 GMT
#231
This match should also get at least 50 recommendations. Man.
The heart's eternal vow
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:20:37
May 19 2013 04:20 GMT
#232
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy


MVP already won 2 gsls in that time. Innovation hasn't won anything yet.
Moderator
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:20 GMT
#233
effOrt has lots of minerals, why doesn't he mix the queens into his composition that make ultras defensively invincible?
negativedge
Profile Joined December 2011
4279 Posts
May 19 2013 04:20 GMT
#234
Bogus is basically like a powered up version of MMA's best-player-in-the-world days. similar style, similar strengths and weaknesses.
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#235
Innovation may all kill.
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#236
4th base is down. :O
指原莉乃 應援
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#237
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Not exactly, INoVation needs to win a tournament at least, and across multiple regions.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#238
Poll: Recommend Set 3?

Yes (33)
 
97%

No (1)
 
3%

If you have time (0)
 
0%

34 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 3?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time

ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#239
Innovation's play is so beautiful and inspiring
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Talack
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada2742 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#240
On May 19 2013 13:20 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy


MVP already won 2 gsls in that time. Innovation hasn't won anything yet.


What I mean is that he is "looking" as dominate or more than MVP did, every time he goes out you are pretty sure he's going to win. Like how it used to be "MVP v Z" was very different from TvZ
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#241
At this rate, INoVation is going to all-kill CJ.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
sage_francis
Profile Joined December 2006
France1823 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#242
next
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#243
On May 19 2013 13:17 BisuDagger wrote:
This is frustrating to watch.

It's beyond frustrating when you want the zerg to win, I agree. However, because I like Innovation, and dislike Symbol almost more than any other zerg.. I hope we see something similar next Thursday
Refer to my post.
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#244
i felt like effort had such a good grasp on that game until he made his ultra den and didn't make ultras LOL
DMXD
Profile Joined February 2008
United States4064 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#245
do cj have any zerg left?
GattAttack
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Canada202 Posts
May 19 2013 04:21 GMT
#246
On May 19 2013 13:18 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:17 evergreensc wrote:
Innovation makes all the other candidates for "best player in the world" seem weak.


except Turn.


Oh Snap!
EpiK
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5757 Posts
May 19 2013 04:22 GMT
#247
I wonder how symbol must be feeling
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
May 19 2013 04:22 GMT
#248
Probably has to play the last one against herO[join]. This is the cost of treason.
The heart's eternal vow
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:22 GMT
#249
effOrt lost the same way as Hydra, when he goes for ultra/infestors. It's a great timing. :O
指原莉乃 應援
BoZiffer
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1841 Posts
May 19 2013 04:22 GMT
#250
Innovation needs a nerf...my word that is a bad, bad man
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
May 19 2013 04:22 GMT
#251
On May 19 2013 13:21 Zenbrez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:17 BisuDagger wrote:
This is frustrating to watch.

It's beyond frustrating when you want the zerg to win, I agree. However, because I like Innovation, and dislike Symbol almost more than any other zerg.. I hope we see something similar next Thursday

Indeed, hoping for a 3-0 bop.
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
sparklyresidue
Profile Joined August 2011
United States5523 Posts
May 19 2013 04:22 GMT
#252
On May 19 2013 13:22 EpiK wrote:
I wonder how symbol must be feeling

He's probably wondering why the CJ zergs are so bad at ZvT
Like Tinkerbelle, I leave behind a sparkly residue.
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:22 GMT
#253
herO all-kill go go go!
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:22 GMT
#254
On May 19 2013 13:21 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Not exactly, INoVation needs to win a tournament at least, and across multiple regions.

Yeah MVP was way scarier in his prime imo. He was so fun to watch then. Come on hero gimme that all kill. He's on my fpl so he will win!
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:23 GMT
#255
Finally, a Toss come onto stage. It's too late.
指原莉乃 應援
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 04:23 GMT
#256
On May 19 2013 13:21 Bagration wrote:
Innovation's play is so beautiful and inspiring

this. His constant aggression and multitasking is amazing to watch and his macro is spot on!
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 19 2013 04:23 GMT
#257
On one hand, I really want Innovation to all kill, but herO seems like such a swell guy
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Kommander
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines4950 Posts
May 19 2013 04:23 GMT
#258
Symbol is fucked, mark my words :p
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:23:43
May 19 2013 04:23 GMT
#259
This is as if..
Innovation is a legendary Flying type pokemon
And all the players he's facing are pokemon using ground type moves.
except flash and apparently turn..who's also a legendary flying type and pidgey, respectively.
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
May 19 2013 04:23 GMT
#260
On May 19 2013 13:22 sparklyresidue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:22 EpiK wrote:
I wonder how symbol must be feeling

He's probably wondering why the CJ zergs are so bad at ZvT

as if roach timing all day long could solve this Innovation. I predict a whitewash for the terran
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
May 19 2013 04:23 GMT
#261
On May 19 2013 13:23 [OGN]Remmy wrote:
Finally, a Toss come onto stage. It's too late.

...first game was a TvP...
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
May 19 2013 04:24 GMT
#262
Innovation 22-2 in HoTS TvZ across all competitions ^^. Loss to Soulkey in Proleague and a 2-1 victory over Leenock in the Asian Indoor Games qualifiers
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
RandomPlayer
Profile Joined April 2012
Russian Federation394 Posts
May 19 2013 04:24 GMT
#263
I feel so good. especially when zergs get smashed so badly :D
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
May 19 2013 04:24 GMT
#264
Mvp looked really scary in all 3 matchups with his TvT being very close to unbeatable, which is definetely not innovation's case.
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:24 GMT
#265
Seriously though, effOrt had the money near the end to add in at least 5 queens if not 6, which could have transfused and kept him from losing ultras. If he didn't lose much of anything vs. Inno's aggression, Inno would have dried out his 3 bases pretty soon and effOrt might have had a chance to come back.

Oh well, vwp by both sides anyways. Was a very exciting game to watch.
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
May 19 2013 04:25 GMT
#266
On May 19 2013 13:17 BisuDagger wrote:
This is frustrating to watch.


How? This guy is macroing, microing, positioning, and playing perfectly. The only way I see it as frustrating is this: he is at a level I KNOW I will NEVER get to.
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:25 GMT
#267
On May 19 2013 13:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Innovation 22-2 in HoTS TvZ across all competitions ^^. Loss to Soulkey in Proleague and a 2-1 victory over Leenock in the Asian Indoor Games qualifiers

So?
(Z)hitmaN has 100% winrate in ZvT in all of Sc2
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
May 19 2013 04:25 GMT
#268
INoVation just seems to get TvZ naturally compared to other Terrans. Even in the light of WoL BL/Infestor, he still managed to beat the best Zergs around with a style that has relatively been unchanged since the expansion.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Ace Frehley
Profile Joined December 2012
2030 Posts
May 19 2013 04:25 GMT
#269
If CJ had a decent terran...
With the hellbat drop randomness, it'd be a nice choice to snipe Innovation

Is SkyHigh any good in SC2?
...
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
May 19 2013 04:25 GMT
#270
This Tahiti thingie is so weird. Still not sure what to think about it.
The heart's eternal vow
Xorphene
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom492 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:31:51
May 19 2013 04:25 GMT
#271
Frustrating as a Z, killed 30 scvs, late game biomine + medivac is really cost efficient. It's the medivacs really, gotta keep that count down.

Tough one for Zergs to work out...Innovation is beautiful to watch though, amazing.
T: Polt, Fantasy, Flash, Jjakji. P: HerO, Rain, Grubby, SoS. Z: Jaedong, Scarlett, Snute, Life. Casters: ToD, Apollo, MrBitter, Artosis, Day[9].
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:27:22
May 19 2013 04:26 GMT
#272
On May 19 2013 13:25 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Innovation 22-2 in HoTS TvZ across all competitions ^^. Loss to Soulkey in Proleague and a 2-1 victory over Leenock in the Asian Indoor Games qualifiers

So?
(Z)hitmaN has 100% winrate in ZvT in all of Sc2

hitman should be seeded into the global finals against Innovation. Match of the century
that's just all of HoTS though. hitman 8-5 all time. last loss was to Innovation. http://www.aligulac.com/players/1478/results/?after=&before=&race=t&nats=all&bo=all&offline=both&game=all
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:26 GMT
#273
On May 19 2013 13:21 Zenbrez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:17 BisuDagger wrote:
This is frustrating to watch.

It's beyond frustrating when you want the zerg to win, I agree. However, because I like Innovation, and dislike Symbol almost more than any other zerg.. I hope we see something similar next Thursday

I have no problem with Innovation but I did want effort to win there for sure. Sometimes just seeing a race get run over by some1 as good as innovation is tough.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
May 19 2013 04:26 GMT
#274
innovations widow mines just seem to get crazy good hits while mine usually kill a few lings or kill my own marines..
savior did nothing wrong
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:33:32
May 19 2013 04:26 GMT
#275
On May 19 2013 13:21 Talack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:20 stuchiu wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy


MVP already won 2 gsls in that time. Innovation hasn't won anything yet.


What I mean is that he is "looking" as dominate or more than MVP did, every time he goes out you are pretty sure he's going to win. Like how it used to be "MVP v Z" was very different from TvZ

Dominance wise he looks similar to Mvp but I would like to see him keeping this up for a while longer. Players like Taeja have also shown these types of incredible runs.
jjakji fan
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:26 GMT
#276
On May 19 2013 13:25 Ace Frehley wrote:
If CJ had a decent terran...
With the hellbat drop randomness, it'd be a nice choice to snipe Innovation

Is SkyHigh any good in SC2?


No. Bbyong is okay, but inconsistent.

Bunny is a new player who's showing some promise, but at the moment CJ's Terran lineup is awful.
sparklyresidue
Profile Joined August 2011
United States5523 Posts
May 19 2013 04:26 GMT
#277
On May 19 2013 13:25 TimENT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:17 BisuDagger wrote:
This is frustrating to watch.


How? This guy is macroing, microing, positioning, and playing perfectly. The only way I see it as frustrating is this: he is at a level I KNOW I will NEVER get to.

Are you a Vulcan? Here's an example: It's frustrating to me to watch Zerg players play well in the early and midgame, and then suck completely in the late game.
Like Tinkerbelle, I leave behind a sparkly residue.
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:26 GMT
#278
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.
elmizzt
Profile Joined February 2010
United States3309 Posts
May 19 2013 04:27 GMT
#279
Anyone have a link to the video thats playing right now?
d=(^_^)z
largehadroncollider
Profile Joined May 2013
United States88 Posts
May 19 2013 04:27 GMT
#280
On May 19 2013 13:21 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Not exactly, INoVation needs to win a tournament at least, and across multiple regions.


Haha I don't think these "INnoVation must win something first" counter arguments are relevant at all. If players like INnoVation, Flash, Rain, Soulkey etc etc etc were playing SC2 back then, it would have been an entirely different scenario.
still alive
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
May 19 2013 04:28 GMT
#281
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:28 GMT
#282
On May 19 2013 13:25 TimENT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:17 BisuDagger wrote:
This is frustrating to watch.


How? This guy is macroing, microing, positioning, and playing perfectly. The only way I see it as frustrating is this: he is at a level I KNOW I will NEVER get to.

Like I said in my most recent post, it was frustrating to see Effort lose so "Effortlessly" so to speak. I hurt seeing him get run over like that. That's why it's upsetting. Has nothing to do with balance, Innovation just made Effort look less than mortal.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
May 19 2013 04:28 GMT
#283
On May 19 2013 13:26 EleanorRIgby wrote:
innovations widow mines just seem to get crazy good hits while mine usually kill a few lings or kill my own marines..


he might micro them... no way to really tell, though.
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:29:32
May 19 2013 04:28 GMT
#284
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.

You can't have one without the other. If you're not winning tournaments, then you're not actually dominating. Mvp won three GSLs and an MLG from January-August in 2011, Innovation currently has nothing to his name except looking really amazing in one matchup. It's not the same, not even a little.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 04:29 GMT
#285
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:26 EleanorRIgby wrote:
innovations widow mines just seem to get crazy good hits while mine usually kill a few lings or kill my own marines..


he might micro them... no way to really tell, though.

can you micro mines though? :S I thought you couldn't.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
May 19 2013 04:29 GMT
#286
Reach<33
The heart's eternal vow
Highwinds
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada955 Posts
May 19 2013 04:29 GMT
#287
So no shortage of games for Symbol to study innovation's TvZ.

GL HF Symbol
Yes It's a Good Day. 저는 아이유 사랑해요!
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
May 19 2013 04:29 GMT
#288
On May 19 2013 13:29 BigFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 EleanorRIgby wrote:
innovations widow mines just seem to get crazy good hits while mine usually kill a few lings or kill my own marines..


he might micro them... no way to really tell, though.

can you micro mines though? :S I thought you couldn't.

you can target them. every time you target something it resets the cast timer as well
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
May 19 2013 04:29 GMT
#289
On May 19 2013 13:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:25 TimENT wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:17 BisuDagger wrote:
This is frustrating to watch.


How? This guy is macroing, microing, positioning, and playing perfectly. The only way I see it as frustrating is this: he is at a level I KNOW I will NEVER get to.

Like I said in my most recent post, it was frustrating to see Effort lose so "Effortlessly" so to speak. I hurt seeing him get run over like that. That's why it's upsetting. Has nothing to do with balance, Innovation just made Effort look less than mortal.


My apologies! I just assumed it was typical internet whine, not something legit :D
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 04:30 GMT
#290
no point in watching the last match, I know who's gonna win(I think lol). night all ^_^
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:30 GMT
#291
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.
phodacbiet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1740 Posts
May 19 2013 04:30 GMT
#292
On May 19 2013 13:27 largehadroncollider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:21 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Not exactly, INoVation needs to win a tournament at least, and across multiple regions.


Haha I don't think these "INnoVation must win something first" counter arguments are relevant at all. If players like INnoVation, Flash, Rain, Soulkey etc etc etc were playing SC2 back then, it would have been an entirely different scenario.


Yeah, maybe proleague would have people watching and esf players would be playing LoL atm.
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:30 GMT
#293
The only way Symbol to win is to go cheese No way for him to play macro game with INoVation.
指原莉乃 應援
snakeeyez
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1231 Posts
May 19 2013 04:30 GMT
#294
Yeah if they had a good terran I would send him without hesitation. Hellbats make the match kind of a coin flip. I actually though liked old tvt a lot better when it would more positional tank marine without them having to worry about getting doomed drop all the time.
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:30 GMT
#295
On May 19 2013 13:30 BigFan wrote:
no point in watching the last match, I know who's gonna win(I think lol). night all ^_^

yea...we all totally knew, turn was going to beat Innovation.
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
May 19 2013 04:31 GMT
#296
Gogo Bogus!

So nice having a dominant terran player again.
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
May 19 2013 04:31 GMT
#297
On May 19 2013 13:29 Highwinds wrote:
So no shortage of games for Symbol to study innovation's TvZ.

GL HF Symbol


ya, but innovation is aware of that too. that's why he let that nydus go up in his main. symbol probably creamed his lair when he saw that.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
May 19 2013 04:32 GMT
#298
On May 19 2013 13:28 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.

You can't have one without the other. If you're not winning tournaments, then you're not actually dominating. Mvp won three GSLs and an MLG from January-August in 2011, Innovation currently has nothing to his name except looking really amazing in one matchup. It's not the same, not even a little.

tournaments usually follow from dominating, but they're not the same. no has or will have a 100% win rate in an rts. you can be clearly the best player and favorite in any match without necessarily winning a tournament.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
BretZ
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1510 Posts
May 19 2013 04:32 GMT
#299
Have the games been good? I haven't had to see Innovation in his prime as in his games in GSL
Khalleb
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1909 Posts
May 19 2013 04:32 GMT
#300
On May 19 2013 13:30 snakeeyez wrote:
Yeah if they had a good terran I would send him without hesitation. Hellbats make the match kind of a coin flip. I actually though liked old tvt a lot better when it would more positional tank marine without them having to worry about getting doomed drop all the time.

i don't think skyhigh can allkill STX that's why you see hero
Liquid'Nony: "I only needed one probe to take down idra. I had to upgrade to a zealot for strelok."
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
May 19 2013 04:32 GMT
#301
Wasn't Bogus one of the best upcoming players at the end of BW?
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
May 19 2013 04:32 GMT
#302
CJ so predictable :-( What's up Entusmen?
The heart's eternal vow
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
May 19 2013 04:33 GMT
#303
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:34:32
May 19 2013 04:33 GMT
#304
On May 19 2013 13:28 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.

You can't have one without the other. If you're not winning tournaments, then you're not actually dominating. Mvp won three GSLs and an MLG from January-August in 2011, Innovation currently has nothing to his name except looking really amazing in one matchup. It's not the same, not even a little.


This is true.

I think Innovation is currently playing the best SC2 we've seen, only comparable to Life(who I still think could take him on, just played really bad in their series.)

I also love his personality.

But I don't think he's dominating as he hasn't been utterly destroying in TvT and TvP, although that might be because of the higher competition he faces.

I just don't get the feeling I get from MVP back in the day, where literally no matter what I'm like "MVP can do it, he's the best".

I don't get the feeling
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
May 19 2013 04:33 GMT
#305
On May 19 2013 13:28 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.

You can't have one without the other. If you're not winning tournaments, then you're not actually dominating. Mvp won three GSLs and an MLG from January-August in 2011, Innovation currently has nothing to his name except looking really amazing in one matchup. It's not the same, not even a little.


Well, back then, there wasn't KeSPA pros... And no, this doesn't invalidate the achievements of early BW pros like BoxeR, because there wasn't a RTS comparable to BW, and no pro e-sports scene in Korea even.
gg no re thx
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
May 19 2013 04:33 GMT
#306
On May 19 2013 13:32 BretZ wrote:
Have the games been good? I haven't had to see Innovation in his prime as in his games in GSL


the two tvz's weren't spectacular. both z's eventually fell over and died to relentless biomine play somewhere between lair and ultra.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
May 19 2013 04:34 GMT
#307
innovation beats people through mechanical prowess, in mvp's era he had it all, there were games he won before even moving out of his base, still the smartest sc2 player to date.
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:34 GMT
#308
On May 19 2013 13:32 TimENT wrote:
Wasn't Bogus one of the best upcoming players at the end of BW?

He was..inconsistent.
He'd show flashes of brilliance then, he'd play like a b-teamer.
TY had a higher upside.
the true rising player out of STX is supposed to be Mini..but eh's done squat :<..
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:34 GMT
#309
On May 19 2013 13:32 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:28 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.

You can't have one without the other. If you're not winning tournaments, then you're not actually dominating. Mvp won three GSLs and an MLG from January-August in 2011, Innovation currently has nothing to his name except looking really amazing in one matchup. It's not the same, not even a little.

tournaments usually follow from dominating, but they're not the same. no has or will have a 100% win rate in an rts. you can be clearly the best player and favorite in any match without necessarily winning a tournament.

have you actually just said something valid which I agree with? Bogus inspires people to do impossible things.
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
May 19 2013 04:35 GMT
#310
On May 19 2013 13:31 nunez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:29 Highwinds wrote:
So no shortage of games for Symbol to study innovation's TvZ.

GL HF Symbol


ya, but innovation is aware of that too. that's why he let that nydus go up in his main. symbol probably creamed his lair when he saw that.


Don't compare this "n00b effort nydus" to the "symbol nydus". Symbol elevated nydus usage to never reached before levels, Innovation have to get ready.
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:35 GMT
#311
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

Innovation has done absolutely nothing to be compared to MVP and Flash's runs.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 04:35 GMT
#312
On May 19 2013 13:32 TimENT wrote:
Wasn't Bogus one of the best upcoming players at the end of BW?


I don't really remember him standing out in the last bw pl season
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:35 GMT
#313
On May 19 2013 13:29 TimENT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:28 BisuDagger wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:25 TimENT wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:17 BisuDagger wrote:
This is frustrating to watch.


How? This guy is macroing, microing, positioning, and playing perfectly. The only way I see it as frustrating is this: he is at a level I KNOW I will NEVER get to.

Like I said in my most recent post, it was frustrating to see Effort lose so "Effortlessly" so to speak. I hurt seeing him get run over like that. That's why it's upsetting. Has nothing to do with balance, Innovation just made Effort look less than mortal.


My apologies! I just assumed it was typical internet whine, not something legit :D

It's ok. I never internet whine.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
sage_francis
Profile Joined December 2006
France1823 Posts
May 19 2013 04:35 GMT
#314
On May 19 2013 13:32 TimENT wrote:
Wasn't Bogus one of the best upcoming players at the end of BW?

he was pretty bad tbh
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
May 19 2013 04:35 GMT
#315
On May 19 2013 13:34 IshinShishi wrote:
innovation beats people through mechanical prowess, in mvp's era he had it all, there were games he won before even moving out of his base, still the smartest sc2 player to date.


Agreed. Life comes close, but MVP is still what I would describe as the most skilled in the most ways player so far.
ThomasR
Profile Joined January 2012
764 Posts
May 19 2013 04:36 GMT
#316
how does hero know that innovation didn't spawn at bottom right corner?
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:40:22
May 19 2013 04:36 GMT
#317
On May 19 2013 13:27 largehadroncollider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:21 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Not exactly, INoVation needs to win a tournament at least, and across multiple regions.


Haha I don't think these "INnoVation must win something first" counter arguments are relevant at all. If players like INnoVation, Flash, Rain, Soulkey etc etc etc were playing SC2 back then, it would have been an entirely different scenario.

true, but mvp was dominant in all matchups whereas innovation only has this aura of inviciblity in his best matchup, tvz. remember how unbeatable mvp (in his prime) was in tvt? how dominant he was in tvz? and how he was able to win a gsl against almost only protoss opponents, very strong ones nonetheless, at a time where his wrists were already exploding and protoss had the upper hand in the pvt metagame? mvp has the ability to conjure victories out of nothing. so far, innovation has only shown this skill in tvz alone.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
May 19 2013 04:36 GMT
#318
On May 19 2013 13:35 kubiks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:31 nunez wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:29 Highwinds wrote:
So no shortage of games for Symbol to study innovation's TvZ.

GL HF Symbol


ya, but innovation is aware of that too. that's why he let that nydus go up in his main. symbol probably creamed his lair when he saw that.


Don't compare this "n00b effort nydus" to the "symbol nydus". Symbol elevated nydus usage to never reached before levels, Innovation have to get ready.


aha, that's true. i shouldn't underestimate the symbol nydus.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
dcsoda
Profile Joined June 2011
United States583 Posts
May 19 2013 04:37 GMT
#319
oh man surprised he didn't see that probe
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:38:25
May 19 2013 04:37 GMT
#320
Innodead

Well shit he did that well.
Refer to my post.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
May 19 2013 04:37 GMT
#321
If Innovation comes out ahead against an unscouted proxy oracle...I just don't even know man.
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
May 19 2013 04:37 GMT
#322
Not noticing the Probe might be the difference between a win and a loss.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:37 GMT
#323
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?
GattAttack
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Canada202 Posts
May 19 2013 04:37 GMT
#324
hero doing the sane thing...try to finish innovation off early
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
May 19 2013 04:37 GMT
#325
I loathe how brutal proxy oracle is.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
May 19 2013 04:37 GMT
#326
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.
GattAttack
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Canada202 Posts
May 19 2013 04:38 GMT
#327
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.


And he's doing it on the NA ladder?
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
May 19 2013 04:38 GMT
#328
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.

From what I know, that's xenocider.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:38 GMT
#329
He lost almost nothing. :l
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:39:34
May 19 2013 04:39 GMT
#330
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.


The 2 losses should be a dead give away that it isn't Innovation.

On May 19 2013 13:37 Mohdoo wrote:
If Innovation comes out ahead against an unscouted proxy oracle...I just don't even know man.


On May 19 2013 13:38 evergreensc wrote:
He lost almost nothing. :l

Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
May 19 2013 04:39 GMT
#331
On May 19 2013 13:36 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:27 largehadroncollider wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:21 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Not exactly, INoVation needs to win a tournament at least, and across multiple regions.


Haha I don't think these "INnoVation must win something first" counter arguments are relevant at all. If players like INnoVation, Flash, Rain, Soulkey etc etc etc were playing SC2 back then, it would have been an entirely different scenario.

true, but mvp was dominant in all matchup whereas innovation only has this aura of inviciblity in his best matchup, tvz. remember how unbeatable mvp (in his prime) was in tvt? how dominant he was in tvz? and how i was able to win a gsl against almost only protoss opponents, very strong ones nonetheless, at a time where his wrists were already exploding and protoss had the upper hand in the pvt metagame? mvp has the ability to conjure victories out of nothing. so far, innovation has only shown this skill in tvz alone.


MVP winning that GSL with hurt wrists and in his match-up he struggled with for the longest time, after a period of domination had ended and people begun writing him up, is by the far the greatest sc2 experience that has happened to me so far.
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
May 19 2013 04:39 GMT
#332
I guess INoVation didn't even need Missile Turrets to defend against proxy Oracles.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 04:39 GMT
#333
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.


He wouldn't waste any time playing on NA, that doesn't help him whatsoever.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
May 19 2013 04:39 GMT
#334
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.

I doubt it. It's probably another prime player impersonating someone else's ID getting tired of Korea since they seem to be unable to win anything anymore. ByuN was already playing on NA and the team is known for copying many other IDs to ladder: Boxer, Flash, Rain, Effort, etc
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
May 19 2013 04:40 GMT
#335
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.

The only reason why INoVation would play on NA is if he ran out of player tears to fuel his TvZ.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
dcsoda
Profile Joined June 2011
United States583 Posts
May 19 2013 04:40 GMT
#336
Why doesn't anyone hallucinate oracles to scout? It's always phoenixes, are they that much faster? He could also move a hallucinated one in one base then attack with the real one at another? Maybe I'm thinking too much about it.
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:41 GMT
#337
herO's micro this game has been excellent.
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
May 19 2013 04:41 GMT
#338
On May 19 2013 13:39 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.

I doubt it. It's probably another prime player impersonating someone else's ID getting tired of Korea since they seem to be unable to win anything anymore. ByuN was already playing on NA and the team is known for copying many other IDs to ladder: Boxer, Flash, Rain, Effort, etc

Pretty sure I saw xenocider streaming from that name..
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
Magic_Mike
Profile Joined May 2010
United States542 Posts
May 19 2013 04:41 GMT
#339
On May 19 2013 13:25 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Innovation 22-2 in HoTS TvZ across all competitions ^^. Loss to Soulkey in Proleague and a 2-1 victory over Leenock in the Asian Indoor Games qualifiers

So?
(Z)hitmaN has 100% winrate in ZvT in all of Sc2

Nope. Lost to Innovation in Proleague on Antiga Shipyard. Here
snakeeyez
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1231 Posts
May 19 2013 04:41 GMT
#340
Yeah without doubt immvp is the best player in SC 2 by far. Innovation has to prove he is good by winning some stuff otherwise the hype means nothing.
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 04:41 GMT
#341
hero with the 8 gate blink stalker colo all-in? can he both defend and hit the timing he wants?
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
May 19 2013 04:41 GMT
#342
On May 19 2013 13:41 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:39 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.

I doubt it. It's probably another prime player impersonating someone else's ID getting tired of Korea since they seem to be unable to win anything anymore. ByuN was already playing on NA and the team is known for copying many other IDs to ladder: Boxer, Flash, Rain, Effort, etc

Pretty sure I saw xenocider streaming from that name..

would be surprising to see xenocider going 43-2
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
May 19 2013 04:41 GMT
#343
oracle openings always kill so many scvs, dunno why protoss dont do them as much
savior did nothing wrong
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
May 19 2013 04:42 GMT
#344
On May 19 2013 13:39 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.


The 2 losses should be a dead give away that it isn't Innovation.

Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:37 Mohdoo wrote:
If Innovation comes out ahead against an unscouted proxy oracle...I just don't even know man.


Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:38 evergreensc wrote:
He lost almost nothing. :l



People lose games, and to people that they shouldn't lose to. It happens. And on NA, there's a lot of hackers, too.
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
May 19 2013 04:42 GMT
#345
Jeez, INoVation just picked the perfect engagement.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
May 19 2013 04:42 GMT
#346
WOW that was such terrible execution, what was he thinking lool
savior did nothing wrong
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
May 19 2013 04:42 GMT
#347
On May 19 2013 13:41 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:41 iAmJeffReY wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:39 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.

I doubt it. It's probably another prime player impersonating someone else's ID getting tired of Korea since they seem to be unable to win anything anymore. ByuN was already playing on NA and the team is known for copying many other IDs to ladder: Boxer, Flash, Rain, Effort, etc

Pretty sure I saw xenocider streaming from that name..

would be surprising to see xenocider going 43-2


On a new account on NA not that surprising if he dodges a few people.
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:42 GMT
#348
Oh my god, no zealots to tank.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
May 19 2013 04:42 GMT
#349
Damn Hero, that is not good.
Moderator
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
May 19 2013 04:42 GMT
#350
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?


so in a scene with even more gosus, how do we separate the best from the rest? how do we see who is truly dominating?
negativedge
Profile Joined December 2011
4279 Posts
May 19 2013 04:42 GMT
#351
winning is the only thing that matters. I think innovation is the best player in the world right now, but if he doesn't win this GSL it reverts back to Life, who has actually put the results behind the hype consistently over a non-trivial period of time.
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
May 19 2013 04:42 GMT
#352
.....that was some diamond level eagerness throw
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
May 19 2013 04:43 GMT
#353
Was it normal to take such a late third? Was innovation aiming for a timing, reacting to the oracle timing, or simply playing safe.
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
May 19 2013 04:43 GMT
#354
The beauty of this map is only comparable to the beauty of how Bogus plays the game.
The heart's eternal vow
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
May 19 2013 04:43 GMT
#355
On May 19 2013 13:41 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:41 iAmJeffReY wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:39 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.

I doubt it. It's probably another prime player impersonating someone else's ID getting tired of Korea since they seem to be unable to win anything anymore. ByuN was already playing on NA and the team is known for copying many other IDs to ladder: Boxer, Flash, Rain, Effort, etc

Pretty sure I saw xenocider streaming from that name..

would be surprising to see xenocider going 43-2

Shiiiit, not really. If I can go like 15-2, a guy who sits at top 16 GM can do it easily. I'm only mid masters, at best on a good day on the cusp of high.
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
May 19 2013 04:43 GMT
#356
1 minute until the Byun impulse hits Innovation.
Moderator
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:43 GMT
#357
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:43 GMT
#358
This guy..
This guy..
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
May 19 2013 04:44 GMT
#359
Best Terran unit - Medivac. Yes?
gg no re thx
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
May 19 2013 04:44 GMT
#360
On May 19 2013 13:42 Popkiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?


so in a scene with even more gosus, how do we separate the best from the rest? how do we see who is truly dominating?

you let fanboys battle it out in lr's with backhanded compliments and snark ofc.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 04:44 GMT
#361
On May 19 2013 13:41 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:41 iAmJeffReY wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:39 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.

I doubt it. It's probably another prime player impersonating someone else's ID getting tired of Korea since they seem to be unable to win anything anymore. ByuN was already playing on NA and the team is known for copying many other IDs to ladder: Boxer, Flash, Rain, Effort, etc

Pretty sure I saw xenocider streaming from that name..

would be surprising to see xenocider going 43-2


would it really be? we can assume 20 of those games were against players much worse than him if it's a new account, then it's not out of the question to say he could go 23-2 if he doesn't hit the best players on na.
Ace Frehley
Profile Joined December 2012
2030 Posts
May 19 2013 04:44 GMT
#362
Hero was in a good position, but threw it, bleh
...
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
May 19 2013 04:44 GMT
#363
On May 19 2013 13:42 playa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:39 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.


The 2 losses should be a dead give away that it isn't Innovation.

On May 19 2013 13:37 Mohdoo wrote:
If Innovation comes out ahead against an unscouted proxy oracle...I just don't even know man.


On May 19 2013 13:38 evergreensc wrote:
He lost almost nothing. :l



People lose games, and to people that they shouldn't lose to. It happens. And on NA, there's a lot of hackers, too.

well, i think 99.9% of all players would lose horribly to innovation even with, say, maphack on.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
May 19 2013 04:44 GMT
#364
The SCV train! Choo choo!
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
May 19 2013 04:44 GMT
#365
what kind of build was that? he had 2 colossus and a handful of stalkers and thought he could break bogus?
savior did nothing wrong
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#366
tasteless is probably out there somewhere losing his fucking mind right now
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#367
There it is, the Byun impulse.
Moderator
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#368
SCV OP lol
指原莉乃 應援
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#369
Poll: Recommend Set 4?

Yes (20)
 
95%

No (1)
 
5%

If you have time (0)
 
0%

21 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 4?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time



Poll: Recommend Set 5?

Yes (9)
 
53%

No (6)
 
35%

If you have time (2)
 
12%

17 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 5?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time



Poll: Recommend Set 6?

Yes (6)
 
40%

No (6)
 
40%

If you have time (3)
 
20%

15 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 6?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time



Poll: Recommend Set 7?

Yes (12)
 
71%

If you have time (4)
 
24%

No (1)
 
6%

17 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Set 7?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time

ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#370
Nice use of the Mvp train.
omisa
Profile Joined January 2011
United States494 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#371
GG innovation, wp
\m/
iamho
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3347 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#372
ALL KILLLL
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#373
On May 19 2013 13:44 EleanorRIgby wrote:
what kind of build was that? he had 2 colossus and a handful of stalkers and thought he could break bogus?


Like an altered Squirtle 2 base all-in.
Moderator
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#374
SCV best unit
EpiK
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5757 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#375
innovation makes it look too easy
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33392 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#376
All hail the big nose god
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
sage_francis
Profile Joined December 2006
France1823 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#377
3x all kill....impressive...
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:45 GMT
#378
Losing to EGTL and then getting all-killed next match.

I'm done with this season. Just done.
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#379
What a beast lol, if he doesn't win this GSL i don't even know what to say
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#380
Good Job Well played INnoVation :D
指原莉乃 應援
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#381
Very sad, but I guess I'll take having just traded for Innovation in SPL as consolation.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#382
[image loading]
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#383
On May 19 2013 13:45 stuchiu wrote:
There it is, the Byun impulse.


This looks more like a Mvp scv pull!
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#384
On May 19 2013 13:45 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:44 EleanorRIgby wrote:
what kind of build was that? he had 2 colossus and a handful of stalkers and thought he could break bogus?


Like an altered Squirtle 2 base all-in.

the one you dont warp in and donate everything
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#385
Should have disturbed Bogus some more. Also, where were the archons ×_×
The heart's eternal vow
Raithed
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
China7078 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#386
I knew it!
Man, herO could've played better.
Finrod1
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany3997 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#387
this guy... :D
wozzot
Profile Joined July 2012
United States1227 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#388
Three all-kills? Damn
(ノ´∀`*)ノ ♪ ♫ ヽ(´ー`)ノ ♪ ♫ (✌゚∀゚)☞ ♪ ♫ ヽ(´ー`)ノ ♫ ♫ (ノ´_ゝ`)ノ彡 ┻━┻
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#389
loool.
innovation is not impressed at all by his all-kill.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#390
lol @ the guy saying he doesn't have to win anything to be dominating. Although 3 all-kills is certainly a start.
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#391
On May 19 2013 13:46 IshinShishi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:45 stuchiu wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:44 EleanorRIgby wrote:
what kind of build was that? he had 2 colossus and a handful of stalkers and thought he could break bogus?


Like an altered Squirtle 2 base all-in.

the one you dont warp in and donate everything

I love that build!
Refer to my post.
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#392
fml
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#393
i was hoping for a ceremony of some kind, but that 4 was actually incredibly satisfying :D
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:46 GMT
#394
So...I just HAD to drop this in.
So..Flash is the only player in all of SC2 to have a winning record vs Innovation?
happyness
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2400 Posts
May 19 2013 04:47 GMT
#395
Innovations all "Meh that was too easy"
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
May 19 2013 04:47 GMT
#396
I feel great. I love watching gimmicky oracle/6gate colossi games end with the SCV train :D
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
May 19 2013 04:47 GMT
#397
Flash looking bad not getting an all kill yesterday now
zyzq
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3123 Posts
May 19 2013 04:47 GMT
#398
innovation is getting a big pay raise after this season
elmizzt
Profile Joined February 2010
United States3309 Posts
May 19 2013 04:47 GMT
#399
On May 19 2013 13:45 Waxangel wrote:
All hail the big nose god

d=(^_^)z
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 04:47 GMT
#400
On May 19 2013 13:45 evergreensc wrote:
Losing to EGTL and then getting all-killed next match.

I'm done with this season. Just done.


Losing to EG-TL wasn't surprising, CJ was the worst team in Round 4 while EG-TL was 6th.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
May 19 2013 04:47 GMT
#401
CJ so much better then this. Gah, they need to be really upset. The coaches need to get it togther.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
May 19 2013 04:47 GMT
#402
On May 19 2013 13:44 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:42 playa wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:39 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 playa wrote:
Anyone know if "Innovation" (43-2 GM) on NA is the real one? Getting desperate to find a challenge perhaps.


The 2 losses should be a dead give away that it isn't Innovation.

On May 19 2013 13:37 Mohdoo wrote:
If Innovation comes out ahead against an unscouted proxy oracle...I just don't even know man.


On May 19 2013 13:38 evergreensc wrote:
He lost almost nothing. :l



People lose games, and to people that they shouldn't lose to. It happens. And on NA, there's a lot of hackers, too.

well, i think 99.9% of all players would lose horribly to innovation even with, say, maphack on.


If it helps... I played him and he had 192 or 196 Blizzard APM, w/e that equates to.
mcmartini
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1972 Posts
May 19 2013 04:47 GMT
#403
So how long till someone translates that article and puts it on another sc2 community site?
I just want to say I have 370 APM - Liquid'Tyler SotG 14-12-2011 "I mean it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fucking whiny bitch on the internet or we would have lots of rich community members" Nick "Tasteless" Plott
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 04:48 GMT
#404
On May 19 2013 13:46 LighT. wrote:
So...I just HAD to drop this in.
So..Flash is the only player in all of SC2 to have a winning record vs Innovation?


he's probably lost to someone in PL and never played them again
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:48 GMT
#405
On May 19 2013 13:47 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:45 evergreensc wrote:
Losing to EGTL and then getting all-killed next match.

I'm done with this season. Just done.


Losing to EG-TL wasn't surprising, CJ was the worst team in Round 4 while EG-TL was 6th.


No one is supposed to lose to EGTL.
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:48 GMT
#406
On May 19 2013 13:42 Popkiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?


so in a scene with even more gosus, how do we separate the best from the rest? how do we see who is truly dominating?

by sheer statistics telling us bogus is 75% vP, 90% vZ, 50% vT, pretty decent no? Take into account that half of his vT are against Flash, half of his vP are against Rain both arguably are the best vT players of their races. Yet this is still being called hollow hype just because he hasn't won anything.
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
May 19 2013 04:48 GMT
#407
Innovation will start the next game as well. Oh god this will be so painful for the next team lol
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
May 19 2013 04:48 GMT
#408
The only thing I can see defeating INoVation is his unusually low body weight for his height, and him collapsing from lack of energy.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 04:49 GMT
#409
It's so weird for STX to have fangirls, back in BW I knew the ID of every STX fan on these forums, all 5 of them.
UberNuB
Profile Joined December 2010
United States365 Posts
May 19 2013 04:49 GMT
#410
Maybe I am missing something, but STX only has two wins this season, so how does Innovation have three all-kills?

O.O
the absence of evidence, is not the evidence of absence.
Kinky
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States4126 Posts
May 19 2013 04:49 GMT
#411
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
May 19 2013 04:49 GMT
#412
On May 19 2013 13:48 rj rl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:42 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?


so in a scene with even more gosus, how do we separate the best from the rest? how do we see who is truly dominating?

by sheer statistics telling us bogus is 75% vP, 90% vZ, 50% vT, pretty decent no? Take into account that half of his vT are against Flash, half of his vP are against Rain both arguably are the best vT players of their races. Yet this is still being called hollow hype just because he hasn't won anything.


It's not being called hollow hype, it's being called "we can't compare it to Mvp's 2011 run yet". Read more carefully please.
Kinky
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States4126 Posts
May 19 2013 04:49 GMT
#413
On May 19 2013 13:49 UberNuB wrote:
Maybe I am missing something, but STX only has two wins this season, so how does Innovation have three all-kills?

O.O

They meant for this whole SPL season, not just this round.
zyzq
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3123 Posts
May 19 2013 04:50 GMT
#414
On May 19 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:
It's so weird for STX to have fangirls, back in BW I knew the ID of every STX fan on these forums, all 5 of them.


stx has korean fangirls bcuz of calm and kal
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
May 19 2013 04:50 GMT
#415
On May 19 2013 13:49 Kinky wrote:
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.


In my eyes, it's:
Innovation >>> Life >> Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:50 GMT
#416
On May 19 2013 13:48 rj rl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:42 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?


so in a scene with even more gosus, how do we separate the best from the rest? how do we see who is truly dominating?

by sheer statistics telling us bogus is 75% vP, 90% vZ, 50% vT, pretty decent no? Take into account that half of his vT are against Flash, half of his vP are against Rain both arguably are the best vT players of their races. Yet this is still being called hollow hype just because he hasn't won anything.

Compared to what Mvp did in 2011, yes, it is.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
May 19 2013 04:50 GMT
#417
On May 19 2013 13:46 LighT. wrote:
So...I just HAD to drop this in.
So..Flash is the only player in all of SC2 to have a winning record vs Innovation?

Turn 1-0 INnoVation
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
negativedge
Profile Joined December 2011
4279 Posts
May 19 2013 04:50 GMT
#418
On May 19 2013 13:48 rj rl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:42 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?


so in a scene with even more gosus, how do we separate the best from the rest? how do we see who is truly dominating?

by sheer statistics telling us bogus is 75% vP, 90% vZ, 50% vT, pretty decent no? Take into account that half of his vT are against Flash, half of his vP are against Rain both arguably are the best vT players of their races. Yet this is still being called hollow hype just because he hasn't won anything.


it's not hollow hype. it's legit hype. but that doesn't stop it from meaning nothing at the end of the day. you play to win, so until you win tournaments all your win percentages come with a huge asterisk by them. I fully expect Innovation to win this GSL, but if he doesn't then it is perfectly fair to knock him down a peg until he wins something.
megapants
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1314 Posts
May 19 2013 04:50 GMT
#419
On May 19 2013 13:48 tuho12345 wrote:
Innovation will start the next game as well. Oh god this will be so painful for the next team lol

well the next one is WJS soooo that should be pretty hype
lessQQmorePEWPEW
Profile Joined November 2011
Jamaica921 Posts
May 19 2013 04:50 GMT
#420
wow all kill. good stuff!
Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly - Bob Marley
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:51:50
May 19 2013 04:51 GMT
#421
On May 19 2013 13:50 TimENT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:49 Kinky wrote:
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.


In my eyes, it's:
Innovation >>> Life >> Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone

sOs 69+% win rate all matchups code s semifinals not good enough? beat innovation last time they played
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:51 GMT
#422
On May 19 2013 13:48 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:46 LighT. wrote:
So...I just HAD to drop this in.
So..Flash is the only player in all of SC2 to have a winning record vs Innovation?


he's probably lost to someone in PL and never played them again

Youre right.
TurN: 1-0 100%
SoS: 2-1 66%
Flash: 5-3: 62.5%
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 19 2013 04:51 GMT
#423
On May 19 2013 13:48 evergreensc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:47 Dodgin wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:45 evergreensc wrote:
Losing to EGTL and then getting all-killed next match.

I'm done with this season. Just done.


Losing to EG-TL wasn't surprising, CJ was the worst team in Round 4 while EG-TL was 6th.


No one is supposed to lose to EGTL.

EGTL has historically had less-awful-than-usual records against top teams like WJS, I think.
jjakji fan
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 04:51 GMT
#424
On May 19 2013 13:50 zyzq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:
It's so weird for STX to have fangirls, back in BW I knew the ID of every STX fan on these forums, all 5 of them.


stx has korean fangirls bcuz of calm and kal


weird cause I remember when they would do the player cheers the STX ones would always be like one guy saying it
c0ldfusion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States8293 Posts
May 19 2013 04:51 GMT
#425
On May 19 2013 13:47 BisuDagger wrote:
CJ so much better then this. Gah, they need to be really upset. The coaches need to get it togther.


It's Bogus man.
zyzq
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3123 Posts
May 19 2013 04:51 GMT
#426
sOs is our hope
negativedge
Profile Joined December 2011
4279 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:54:42
May 19 2013 04:51 GMT
#427
On May 19 2013 13:50 TimENT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:49 Kinky wrote:
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.


In my eyes, it's:
Innovation >>> Life >> Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone


it's ridiculous to say Roro, Soulkey, Rain, and SoS are just a bunch of in-the-pack jobbers.

not to mention Parting and Symbol
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
May 19 2013 04:51 GMT
#428
On May 19 2013 13:50 megapants wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:48 tuho12345 wrote:
Innovation will start the next game as well. Oh god this will be so painful for the next team lol

well the next one is WJS soooo that should be pretty hype

we might get a soulkey vs innovation gsl finals preview. ^^
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:51 GMT
#429
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,
Kinky
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States4126 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:51:57
May 19 2013 04:51 GMT
#430
On May 19 2013 13:50 megapants wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:48 tuho12345 wrote:
Innovation will start the next game as well. Oh god this will be so painful for the next team lol

well the next one is WJS soooo that should be pretty hype

I wonder why he's the starter for both matches even though he has his WCS match to prepare for. If he allkills again and wins his match, he's got some godlike stamina.
droppanda
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia176 Posts
May 19 2013 04:51 GMT
#431
On May 19 2013 13:44 Ace Frehley wrote:
Hero was in a good position, but threw it, bleh


Is it just me that notices 90% of the people on teamliquid don't understand the meaning of the "threw" or "throwing the match"?

Hero 'blew' it would be appropriate, saying he threw it suggests he lost on purpose..
Evrytime a player loses after being in a good position, all these posts come up about how they threw the matches which makes no sense, unless people really do think they lose on purpose :S
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
May 19 2013 04:52 GMT
#432
On May 19 2013 13:51 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:50 TimENT wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:49 Kinky wrote:
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.


In my eyes, it's:
Innovation >>> Life >> Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone

sOs 69% win rate all matchups code s semifinals not good enough? beat innovation last time they played


Oh. I just don't watch Protoss.
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
[OGN]Remmy
Profile Joined March 2013
United States1206 Posts
May 19 2013 04:52 GMT
#433
INnoVation finally knows SCV-pulled all in haha
指原莉乃 應援
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:52 GMT
#434
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?
largehadroncollider
Profile Joined May 2013
United States88 Posts
May 19 2013 04:53 GMT
#435
On May 19 2013 13:36 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:27 largehadroncollider wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:21 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Not exactly, INoVation needs to win a tournament at least, and across multiple regions.


Haha I don't think these "INnoVation must win something first" counter arguments are relevant at all. If players like INnoVation, Flash, Rain, Soulkey etc etc etc were playing SC2 back then, it would have been an entirely different scenario.

true, but mvp was dominant in all matchups whereas innovation only has this aura of inviciblity in his best matchup, tvz. remember how unbeatable mvp (in his prime) was in tvt? how dominant he was in tvz? and how he was able to win a gsl against almost only protoss opponents, very strong ones nonetheless, at a time where his wrists were already exploding and protoss had the upper hand in the pvt metagame? mvp has the ability to conjure victories out of nothing. so far, innovation has only shown this skill in tvz alone.


Realistically, I don't think he could dominate as easily in all MUs given the higher level of competition today vs. the time before KeSPA transitioned. These guys are definitely playing a notch higher.
still alive
theMagus
Profile Joined February 2013
578 Posts
May 19 2013 04:53 GMT
#436
grats stx

innovation with 3 all-kills now. that's nice.
"Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold. Let go."
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:53 GMT
#437
On May 19 2013 13:50 TimENT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:49 Kinky wrote:
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.


In my eyes, it's:
Innovation >>> Life >> Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone

How is Innovation > Flash?
If Flash is 5-3 against Innovation?
Moreso..
Tier 1: Innovation/Flash/Life/sOs/Rain

Tier 2: Symbol/Taeja/SK/Roro/Parting
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:54 GMT
#438
Innovation, SoulKey, sOs best players of the three races right now?
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:54 GMT
#439
On May 19 2013 13:49 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:48 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:42 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?


so in a scene with even more gosus, how do we separate the best from the rest? how do we see who is truly dominating?

by sheer statistics telling us bogus is 75% vP, 90% vZ, 50% vT, pretty decent no? Take into account that half of his vT are against Flash, half of his vP are against Rain both arguably are the best vT players of their races. Yet this is still being called hollow hype just because he hasn't won anything.


It's not being called hollow hype, it's being called "we can't compare it to Mvp's 2011 run yet". Read more carefully please.

your IM mate disagrees.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 04:54 GMT
#440
even in Mvp's prime he didn't have extremely dominant TvP, just TvT and TvZ. It's actually funny because in 2012 and in HotS his TvP has been better than his TvT
FakeDeath
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia6060 Posts
May 19 2013 04:54 GMT
#441
Bogus man Bogus man.
So bloody good.
Play your best
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:56:26
May 19 2013 04:54 GMT
#442
innovation 2 stronk. but I miss mindtime TT
"See you space cowboy"
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:55 GMT
#443
On May 19 2013 13:50 zyzq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:49 Dodgin wrote:
It's so weird for STX to have fangirls, back in BW I knew the ID of every STX fan on these forums, all 5 of them.


stx has korean fangirls bcuz of calm and kal

Koreans like winners..
Also..there'd be more STX fans if Kal was back.
Also..Calm had fan girls?
negativedge
Profile Joined December 2011
4279 Posts
May 19 2013 04:55 GMT
#444
On May 19 2013 13:54 Dodgin wrote:
even in Mvp's prime he didn't have extremely dominant TvP, just TvT and TvZ.


luckily for him, he didn't need it. Sad Zealot ;_;
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:55 GMT
#445
On May 19 2013 13:53 largehadroncollider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:36 Black Gun wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:27 largehadroncollider wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:21 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Not exactly, INoVation needs to win a tournament at least, and across multiple regions.


Haha I don't think these "INnoVation must win something first" counter arguments are relevant at all. If players like INnoVation, Flash, Rain, Soulkey etc etc etc were playing SC2 back then, it would have been an entirely different scenario.

true, but mvp was dominant in all matchups whereas innovation only has this aura of inviciblity in his best matchup, tvz. remember how unbeatable mvp (in his prime) was in tvt? how dominant he was in tvz? and how he was able to win a gsl against almost only protoss opponents, very strong ones nonetheless, at a time where his wrists were already exploding and protoss had the upper hand in the pvt metagame? mvp has the ability to conjure victories out of nothing. so far, innovation has only shown this skill in tvz alone.


Realistically, I don't think he could dominate as easily in all MUs given the higher level of competition today vs. the time before KeSPA transitioned. These guys are definitely playing a notch higher.

The same could be easily said of any number of great players prior to the TBLS era, yet that doesn't diminish what they accomplished. Starcraft just like any other sport evolves over time and the skill level gets ever higher. That doesn't stop players who did great things in their own time from deserving recognition and respect for it.
Kergy
Profile Joined December 2010
Peru2011 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:56:31
May 19 2013 04:55 GMT
#446
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Yeah that Woongjin terran had an impressive run in 2011, I trust Innovation to do and be even better though.
Everyday Girl's Day~!
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33392 Posts
May 19 2013 04:55 GMT
#447
On May 19 2013 13:54 Erik.TheRed wrote:
innovation 2 stronk.


here iono if this will help

AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 04:56 GMT
#448
On May 19 2013 13:55 negativedge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:54 Dodgin wrote:
even in Mvp's prime he didn't have extremely dominant TvP, just TvT and TvZ.


luckily for him, he didn't need it. Sad Zealot ;_;


Yah Protoss was pretty bad until 2012 ;o
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:56 GMT
#449
On May 19 2013 13:54 evergreensc wrote:
Innovation, SoulKey, sOs best players of the three races right now?

Gd it. NO.
There's no "best players" of three races right now.
You can argue Innovation with Flash
Soulkey with Roro/Symbol
sOs with Rain/parting
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:56 GMT
#450
I'm out, everyone enjoy the next match and have a good night. Go SKT and Bisu in particular!
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 04:56 GMT
#451
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?

don't put words in my mouth, it's not meaningless, it's devalued significantly and you can't deny that. Where's mvp with all the current pros around? Oh I forgot, he's healing the wrists, just as taeja. blahblah
evergreensc
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
May 19 2013 04:56 GMT
#452
On May 19 2013 13:56 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:54 evergreensc wrote:
Innovation, SoulKey, sOs best players of the three races right now?

Gd it. NO.
There's no "best players" of three races right now.
You can argue Innovation with Flash
Soulkey with Roro/Symbol
sOs with Rain/parting


It was more of a "these are the players I think are doing the best of the three races right now. What are your thoughts?"

Sorry if I offended you.
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:57 GMT
#453
Innovation's good and i'm a big fan but he's getting overrated way out of porportion ><
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:57 GMT
#454
On May 19 2013 13:56 evergreensc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:56 LighT. wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:54 evergreensc wrote:
Innovation, SoulKey, sOs best players of the three races right now?

Gd it. NO.
There's no "best players" of three races right now.
You can argue Innovation with Flash
Soulkey with Roro/Symbol
sOs with Rain/parting


It was more of a "these are the players I think are doing the best of the three races right now. What are your thoughts?"

Sorry if I offended you.

Oh okay, carry on.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33392 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 04:58:12
May 19 2013 04:57 GMT
#455
btw, to stay realistic about the Innovation hype train, don't forget TvT....

everyone was so quick to ignore that Life might be weak in a mirror when he made his championship runs at GSL/MLG, and then he was exposed two seasons in a row in that match-up

Innovation is showing GODLY TvZ, very good TvP, but his TvT is still vulnerable, despite being quite good
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 04:58 GMT
#456
It would be funny if Symbol beats Bogus in the ro4 with only roach-baneling allins and nydus worm allins, like he has to every other terran.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
May 19 2013 04:58 GMT
#457
On May 19 2013 13:46 LighT. wrote:
So...I just HAD to drop this in.
So..Flash is the only player in all of SC2 to have a winning record vs Innovation?


Are we counting WoL?
Moderator
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:59 GMT
#458
On May 19 2013 13:58 Dodgin wrote:
It would be funny if Symbol beats Bogus in the ro4 with only roach-baneling allins and nydus worm allins, like he has to every other terran.

hyvaa is basically a miniatur version of symbol though.
he loves em timing attacks sans nydus worms.
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
May 19 2013 04:59 GMT
#459
On May 19 2013 13:55 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:53 largehadroncollider wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:36 Black Gun wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:27 largehadroncollider wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:21 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Not exactly, INoVation needs to win a tournament at least, and across multiple regions.


Haha I don't think these "INnoVation must win something first" counter arguments are relevant at all. If players like INnoVation, Flash, Rain, Soulkey etc etc etc were playing SC2 back then, it would have been an entirely different scenario.

true, but mvp was dominant in all matchups whereas innovation only has this aura of inviciblity in his best matchup, tvz. remember how unbeatable mvp (in his prime) was in tvt? how dominant he was in tvz? and how he was able to win a gsl against almost only protoss opponents, very strong ones nonetheless, at a time where his wrists were already exploding and protoss had the upper hand in the pvt metagame? mvp has the ability to conjure victories out of nothing. so far, innovation has only shown this skill in tvz alone.


Realistically, I don't think he could dominate as easily in all MUs given the higher level of competition today vs. the time before KeSPA transitioned. These guys are definitely playing a notch higher.

The same could be easily said of any number of great players prior to the TBLS era, yet that doesn't diminish what they accomplished. Starcraft just like any other sport evolves over time and the skill level gets ever higher. That doesn't stop players who did great things in their own time from deserving recognition and respect for it.


There's a difference between players of different time eras, and players playing quite similar games in the same era.
gg no re thx
largehadroncollider
Profile Joined May 2013
United States88 Posts
May 19 2013 04:59 GMT
#460
On May 19 2013 13:55 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:53 largehadroncollider wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:36 Black Gun wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:27 largehadroncollider wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:21 PhoenixVoid wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Not exactly, INoVation needs to win a tournament at least, and across multiple regions.


Haha I don't think these "INnoVation must win something first" counter arguments are relevant at all. If players like INnoVation, Flash, Rain, Soulkey etc etc etc were playing SC2 back then, it would have been an entirely different scenario.

true, but mvp was dominant in all matchups whereas innovation only has this aura of inviciblity in his best matchup, tvz. remember how unbeatable mvp (in his prime) was in tvt? how dominant he was in tvz? and how he was able to win a gsl against almost only protoss opponents, very strong ones nonetheless, at a time where his wrists were already exploding and protoss had the upper hand in the pvt metagame? mvp has the ability to conjure victories out of nothing. so far, innovation has only shown this skill in tvz alone.


Realistically, I don't think he could dominate as easily in all MUs given the higher level of competition today vs. the time before KeSPA transitioned. These guys are definitely playing a notch higher.

The same could be easily said of any number of great players prior to the TBLS era, yet that doesn't diminish what they accomplished. Starcraft just like any other sport evolves over time and the skill level gets ever higher. That doesn't stop players who did great things in their own time from deserving recognition and respect for it.


I think you just shifted to another topic. lol.
still alive
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 04:59 GMT
#461
On May 19 2013 13:58 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:46 LighT. wrote:
So...I just HAD to drop this in.
So..Flash is the only player in all of SC2 to have a winning record vs Innovation?


Are we counting WoL?

Just HoTS
dustinth
Profile Joined September 2012
China205 Posts
May 19 2013 05:02 GMT
#462
On May 19 2013 13:58 Dodgin wrote:
It would be funny if Symbol beats Bogus in the ro4 with only roach-baneling allins and nydus worm allins, like he has to every other terran.


I didn't see any chance, Symbol is so predicable. And Bogus is very good at early engagement.
thebig1
Profile Joined March 2011
248 Posts
May 19 2013 05:03 GMT
#463
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:18 Talack wrote:
This is more dominate than MVP's 2011 run, just crazy

Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then. To call ANYONE the best player in the world in 2013 because of their results in 2011 is insanity. In MVP's case, didn't he just lose to LucifroN? LucifroN is really good, but come on...
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 05:03 GMT
#464
On May 19 2013 14:02 dustinth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:58 Dodgin wrote:
It would be funny if Symbol beats Bogus in the ro4 with only roach-baneling allins and nydus worm allins, like he has to every other terran.


I didn't see any chance, Symbol is so predicable. And Bogus is very good at early engagement.

If he's predictable..
he wouldnt be in Ro4 for two consecutive GSL's in a row, one of th eonly players putting up a fight against the KeSPA's elite tier and having a decent GSTL record :/
Clefairy
Profile Joined September 2011
1570 Posts
May 19 2013 05:05 GMT
#465
I love Innovation because he's been the Terran hope for 4 GSL seasons now. Hope he wins this time.
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
May 19 2013 05:06 GMT
#466
yus

another all-kill for my team. This guy is gold
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
May 19 2013 05:06 GMT
#467
On May 19 2013 14:03 thebig1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
[quote]
Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then. To call ANYONE the best player in the world in 2013 because of their results in 2011 is insanity. In MVP's case, didn't he just lose to LucifroN? LucifroN is really good, but come on...

Because they are comparing era of dominance, not skill level. of course the best player of 2011 would be far from best player in 2013. they are comparing the players' dominance relative to the scene in their time period
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
May 19 2013 05:06 GMT
#468
On May 19 2013 14:05 Clefairy wrote:
I love Innovation because he's been the Terran hope for 4 GSL seasons now. Hope he wins this time.


I think you mean 3, unless you had him pegged as your hope in the season where it was Mvp vs Life in the finals.
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 05:13:38
May 19 2013 05:12 GMT
#469
On May 19 2013 14:03 thebig1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
[quote]
Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then. To call ANYONE the best player in the world in 2013 because of their results in 2011 is insanity. In MVP's case, didn't he just lose to LucifroN? LucifroN is really good, but come on...

Except nobody here is talking about relative skill, or how good Mvp is in 2013. Obviously if you sent Life right now back to GSL Open Season 1 he'd win every tournament in the world with no effort but that's not what was mentioned earlier. What we're talking about is a period of dominance, as in how good a player is in the scene at a particular point in time. Innovation is looking extremely good right now, clearly a cut above all the other Terrans out there, but to compare what he's doing how compared to what Mvp did two years ago is a farce. Mvp crushed everyone and won everything, that's why he has a full trophy case and a pile of prize money. Regardless of how good Bogus looks right now, you can't say the same of him. That's the whole point.
thebig1
Profile Joined March 2011
248 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 05:15:33
May 19 2013 05:13 GMT
#470
On May 19 2013 14:06 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 14:03 thebig1 wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
[quote]
to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then. To call ANYONE the best player in the world in 2013 because of their results in 2011 is insanity. In MVP's case, didn't he just lose to LucifroN? LucifroN is really good, but come on...

Because they are comparing era of dominance, not skill level. of course the best player of 2011 would be far from best player in 2013. they are comparing the players' dominance relative to the scene in their time period


Yes, I understand that, but the point is you need to take the era that they are dominating into account too.

If one player is playing in an era where no one knows really knows what they are doing, people haven't had time to develop skills or strategy, and there aren't very many people playing. It's completely different than competing in an era where everyone has spent years refining their art, and there are a ton of people playing at the top level.

To use baseball as an example. If you start playing right at the beginning when game is just starting to become a pro sport, no one knows the best way to throw a ball, and decide to go into baseball at the age of 18 because it turns out they have a knack at it. That's different than today, when there are tons of people practice and studying baseball from the time they are very young. Where there are training schools, have been huge improvements in techniques, and people devote their life to it.

Edit: As the level of play increases it becomes MUCH MUCH harder to be that one guy who dominates everything. Even if it has nothing to do with skill.


In the case of SC2, no one will have a trophy case of tournaments again, because there are 1/10th the amount of tournaments now than there used to be.
dustinth
Profile Joined September 2012
China205 Posts
May 19 2013 05:13 GMT
#471
On May 19 2013 14:03 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 14:02 dustinth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:58 Dodgin wrote:
It would be funny if Symbol beats Bogus in the ro4 with only roach-baneling allins and nydus worm allins, like he has to every other terran.


I didn't see any chance, Symbol is so predicable. And Bogus is very good at early engagement.

If he's predictable..
he wouldnt be in Ro4 for two consecutive GSL's in a row, one of th eonly players putting up a fight against the KeSPA's elite tier and having a decent GSTL record :/


I don't want to be rude, but if Symbol faced anyone except Kangho, Bomber in RO8, he wouldn't be in RO4 this season. We all know that last 2 WOL seasons didn't count since there are so many patch zergs.
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
May 19 2013 05:16 GMT
#472
On May 19 2013 14:13 dustinth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 14:03 LighT. wrote:
On May 19 2013 14:02 dustinth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:58 Dodgin wrote:
It would be funny if Symbol beats Bogus in the ro4 with only roach-baneling allins and nydus worm allins, like he has to every other terran.


I didn't see any chance, Symbol is so predicable. And Bogus is very good at early engagement.

If he's predictable..
he wouldnt be in Ro4 for two consecutive GSL's in a row, one of th eonly players putting up a fight against the KeSPA's elite tier and having a decent GSTL record :/


I don't want to be rude, but if Symbol faced anyone except Kangho, Bomber in RO8, he wouldn't be in RO4 this season. We all know that last 2 WOL seasons didn't count since there are so many patch zergs.

Maybe we'll see.
INnovation will beat him for sure..
Innovation is already 2-0 vs Symbol Head to head..
ButI dont think he's really that bad as a player, he did manage to beat Rain after all
Clefairy
Profile Joined September 2011
1570 Posts
May 19 2013 05:16 GMT
#473
On May 19 2013 14:06 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 14:05 Clefairy wrote:
I love Innovation because he's been the Terran hope for 4 GSL seasons now. Hope he wins this time.


I think you mean 3, unless you had him pegged as your hope in the season where it was Mvp vs Life in the finals.

MVP was no longer a hope by then because of his injury. Just a falling hero even when he got to the finals
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33392 Posts
May 19 2013 05:18 GMT
#474
On May 19 2013 14:03 thebig1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
[quote]
Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then.


This is a pretty interesting topic to think about, in terms of both traditional and electronic sports. Especially the "send a fringe pro back in time and he would dominate" thought experiment. At least in terms of esports, where there's a very small physical fitness/training/sports medicine factor, you can argue that the only advantage a modern player has is the strategic knowledge accumulated over the years. It could be argued the player sent back in time would only be dominant for a short period while others hadn't adopted to his strategies (he may not even be dominant at all if his strategies are so far ahead in the meta-game that it loses to a cheese meta executed by superior players), and then the more talented players would just adopt his strats and the fringe player would return to his previous position.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
ColtraneL
Profile Joined December 2011
France248 Posts
May 19 2013 05:19 GMT
#475
On May 19 2013 14:03 thebig1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
[quote]
Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then. To call ANYONE the best player in the world in 2013 because of their results in 2011 is insanity. In MVP's case, didn't he just lose to LucifroN? LucifroN is really good, but come on...


I feel HoTS metagame hasn't stabilized enough to truly speak about long steady domination. People are still figuring things out and the different styles are very likely to change a lot in the near future.

This is the reason why people tend to give less credits to the first seasons runs (Fruitdealer, Jinro ...) than to those from mid 2011 to the end of WoL. Now I agree that there are more skilled players now than there were before, but when I watch some of the best 2011 games at the top, I don't feel like they are playing bad and they would be destroyed by anybody today. Their macro is usually very solid in those, an incredible game sense sometimes, some pretty good displays of micro and multitasking happen as well. Of course I wouldn't say that Mvp is the best based on previous results, but I don't think that you can deny the greatness of his previous success just because things are supposed to be harder (and you can't compare it to old baseball/modern baseball or tennis or whatever because you're comparing 50 years apart versus 1).
I also think that there is more volatility in recent SC2 (ever since big 2012 PvT and ZvT changes and all the mirror match up are more volatile than ever) which partially explains the bigger number of top players.

Anyway, Innovation is at the top for the moment, but you've got to let him win things and stay at the top a little while longer before praising him for the greatest domination of the scene. If he suddenly started losing everything, we wouldn't call this last month the era of Innovation's domination one year after, give him some time.
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44127 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 05:23:06
May 19 2013 05:20 GMT
#476
On May 19 2013 13:46 LighT. wrote:
So...I just HAD to drop this in.
So..Flash is the only player in all of SC2 to have a winning record vs Innovation?


nope .. sos also had a winning record against innovation i believe .. but meh sOs is op so no worries haha
this is a quote
thebig1
Profile Joined March 2011
248 Posts
May 19 2013 05:22 GMT
#477
On May 19 2013 14:18 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 14:03 thebig1 wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
[quote]
to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then.


This is a pretty interesting topic to think about, in terms of both traditional and electronic sports. Especially the "send a fringe pro back in time and he would dominate" thought experiment. At least in terms of esports, where there's a very small physical fitness/training/sports medicine factor, you can argue that the only advantage a modern player has is the strategic knowledge accumulated over the years. It could be argued the player sent back in time would only be dominant for a short period while others hadn't adopted to his strategies (he may not even be dominant at all if his strategies are so far ahead in the meta-game that it loses to a cheese meta executed by superior players), and then the more talented players would just adopt his strats and the fringe player would return to his previous position.


I definitely agree with that. I think it really depends on who is being sent back and how far back they are being sent. If you are just sending some random pro back, who is just going to win with knowledge then I agree that the dominance probably wouldn't last that long. Unless they were really clever about how they doled out their strategy.

However, if you sent someone back who is a mechanics monster, it could potentially take quite a while for people to be able to develop the mechanics to actually deal with 4 drops at once.
largehadroncollider
Profile Joined May 2013
United States88 Posts
May 19 2013 05:23 GMT
#478
On May 19 2013 14:03 thebig1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:26 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:20 forsooth wrote:
[quote]
Let's not get carried away, Innovation needs to actually win something first.

to be dominating - no he doesn't.


to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then. To call ANYONE the best player in the world in 2013 because of their results in 2011 is insanity. In MVP's case, didn't he just lose to LucifroN? LucifroN is really good, but come on...


AMEN.
still alive
GreyKnight
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4720 Posts
May 19 2013 05:23 GMT
#479
On May 19 2013 14:13 dustinth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 14:03 LighT. wrote:
On May 19 2013 14:02 dustinth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:58 Dodgin wrote:
It would be funny if Symbol beats Bogus in the ro4 with only roach-baneling allins and nydus worm allins, like he has to every other terran.


I didn't see any chance, Symbol is so predicable. And Bogus is very good at early engagement.

If he's predictable..
he wouldnt be in Ro4 for two consecutive GSL's in a row, one of th eonly players putting up a fight against the KeSPA's elite tier and having a decent GSTL record :/


I don't want to be rude, but if Symbol faced anyone except Kangho, Bomber in RO8, he wouldn't be in RO4 this season. We all know that last 2 WOL seasons didn't count since there are so many patch zergs.


How would you know? Symbol is a player with incredible results and memorable games. Hes proved his skill and potential. Where did this idiot hurr symbol is some all in player with no skil. He fucking reverse all killed LG-IM when all hope was lost, he destroyed parting in his prime, hes shown some amazing games and deserves the same respect as any top player.

Idiots like you should seriously make me laugh at your ignorance.
Corrosive
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3741 Posts
May 19 2013 05:24 GMT
#480
i hope innovation doesnt suffer the same fate as rain
Maruprime.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33392 Posts
May 19 2013 05:26 GMT
#481
On May 19 2013 14:22 thebig1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 14:18 Waxangel wrote:
On May 19 2013 14:03 thebig1 wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:28 Popkiller wrote:
[quote]

to compare him to Mvp, he does.

go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then.


This is a pretty interesting topic to think about, in terms of both traditional and electronic sports. Especially the "send a fringe pro back in time and he would dominate" thought experiment. At least in terms of esports, where there's a very small physical fitness/training/sports medicine factor, you can argue that the only advantage a modern player has is the strategic knowledge accumulated over the years. It could be argued the player sent back in time would only be dominant for a short period while others hadn't adopted to his strategies (he may not even be dominant at all if his strategies are so far ahead in the meta-game that it loses to a cheese meta executed by superior players), and then the more talented players would just adopt his strats and the fringe player would return to his previous position.


I definitely agree with that. I think it really depends on who is being sent back and how far back they are being sent. If you are just sending some random pro back, who is just going to win with knowledge then I agree that the dominance probably wouldn't last that long. Unless they were really clever about how they doled out their strategy.

However, if you sent someone back who is a mechanics monster, it could potentially take quite a while for people to be able to develop the mechanics to actually deal with 4 drops at once.


the question about mechanics is how much of it is innate, and how much of is it is just knowing which specific mechanics are important, and giving them the according amount of practice?
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44127 Posts
May 19 2013 05:30 GMT
#482
On May 19 2013 13:50 TimENT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:49 Kinky wrote:
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.


In my eyes, it's:
Innovation >>> Life >> Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone



ever seen sOs play ? he's the arguably the the most efficient and has the most solid plays ATM as a toss
this is a quote
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
May 19 2013 05:35 GMT
#483
On May 19 2013 14:30 goody153 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:50 TimENT wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:49 Kinky wrote:
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.


In my eyes, it's:
Innovation >>> Life >> Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone



ever seen sOs play ? he's the arguably the the most efficient and has the most solid plays ATM as a toss

true, sOs and Soulkey are also sick fucking good. Rain is good as well however he's kinda inconsistent in GSL.
thebig1
Profile Joined March 2011
248 Posts
May 19 2013 05:38 GMT
#484
On May 19 2013 14:26 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 14:22 thebig1 wrote:
On May 19 2013 14:18 Waxangel wrote:
On May 19 2013 14:03 thebig1 wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:30 rj rl wrote:
[quote]
go compare jjakji and sniper to mvp then, so far you sound like a defending fanboy a bit.


there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then.


This is a pretty interesting topic to think about, in terms of both traditional and electronic sports. Especially the "send a fringe pro back in time and he would dominate" thought experiment. At least in terms of esports, where there's a very small physical fitness/training/sports medicine factor, you can argue that the only advantage a modern player has is the strategic knowledge accumulated over the years. It could be argued the player sent back in time would only be dominant for a short period while others hadn't adopted to his strategies (he may not even be dominant at all if his strategies are so far ahead in the meta-game that it loses to a cheese meta executed by superior players), and then the more talented players would just adopt his strats and the fringe player would return to his previous position.


I definitely agree with that. I think it really depends on who is being sent back and how far back they are being sent. If you are just sending some random pro back, who is just going to win with knowledge then I agree that the dominance probably wouldn't last that long. Unless they were really clever about how they doled out their strategy.

However, if you sent someone back who is a mechanics monster, it could potentially take quite a while for people to be able to develop the mechanics to actually deal with 4 drops at once.


the question about mechanics is how much of it is innate, and how much of is it is just knowing which specific mechanics are important, and giving them the according amount of practice?



I would suspect that to a certain extent it's both. However, to some extent one has to admit that some of it is definitely trained. Knowing what specific mechanics are important I think would certainly accelerate the rate that it's improved, but it's interesting to wonder how much that would actually impact things. For example, the idea of multiple drops at once isn't something that's new. MMA was doing it back in the day, and it's obvious that he wasn't the first. I mean people were multitasking like that in Broodwar. However, the extent of the control that goes into it now compared to back then it immense. People micro more drops at once, while not letting their macro slip.
Is this just innate, or from practice over the years? Has it really taken years of practice to get to this point, or is it just innate ability of a few people? Thinking about it, it would be really interesting to see some stats about how players APM has risen over the years.


Also, while slightly off target, comparing the time travel thing in SC2 becomes more complicated than something like baseball, as patches have changed the way the game is balanced. There is no way of knowing that strategies used now would even work back then at all.
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
May 19 2013 05:51 GMT
#485
On May 19 2013 14:38 thebig1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 14:26 Waxangel wrote:
On May 19 2013 14:22 thebig1 wrote:
On May 19 2013 14:18 Waxangel wrote:
On May 19 2013 14:03 thebig1 wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
[quote]

there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then.


This is a pretty interesting topic to think about, in terms of both traditional and electronic sports. Especially the "send a fringe pro back in time and he would dominate" thought experiment. At least in terms of esports, where there's a very small physical fitness/training/sports medicine factor, you can argue that the only advantage a modern player has is the strategic knowledge accumulated over the years. It could be argued the player sent back in time would only be dominant for a short period while others hadn't adopted to his strategies (he may not even be dominant at all if his strategies are so far ahead in the meta-game that it loses to a cheese meta executed by superior players), and then the more talented players would just adopt his strats and the fringe player would return to his previous position.


I definitely agree with that. I think it really depends on who is being sent back and how far back they are being sent. If you are just sending some random pro back, who is just going to win with knowledge then I agree that the dominance probably wouldn't last that long. Unless they were really clever about how they doled out their strategy.

However, if you sent someone back who is a mechanics monster, it could potentially take quite a while for people to be able to develop the mechanics to actually deal with 4 drops at once.


the question about mechanics is how much of it is innate, and how much of is it is just knowing which specific mechanics are important, and giving them the according amount of practice?



I would suspect that to a certain extent it's both. However, to some extent one has to admit that some of it is definitely trained. Knowing what specific mechanics are important I think would certainly accelerate the rate that it's improved, but it's interesting to wonder how much that would actually impact things. For example, the idea of multiple drops at once isn't something that's new. MMA was doing it back in the day, and it's obvious that he wasn't the first. I mean people were multitasking like that in Broodwar. However, the extent of the control that goes into it now compared to back then it immense. People micro more drops at once, while not letting their macro slip.
Is this just innate, or from practice over the years? Has it really taken years of practice to get to this point, or is it just innate ability of a few people? Thinking about it, it would be really interesting to see some stats about how players APM has risen over the years.


Also, while slightly off target, comparing the time travel thing in SC2 becomes more complicated than something like baseball, as patches have changed the way the game is balanced. There is no way of knowing that strategies used now would even work back then at all.


In BW, you had to look at your main to macro with Terran. It's always been "easy" to macro if you don't have to change screens. As for why maybe that hasn't happened in the past, in SC 2, I dunno. But, I do know the best SC players weren't playing SC 2 until recently (sans MVP).
Fuell
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands3111 Posts
May 19 2013 05:53 GMT
#486
Haha, I don't even know what to say. INnoVation manmode.
fOu/Zenith/NEX/WeRRa/SlayerS
Zerg.Zilla
Profile Joined February 2012
Hungary5029 Posts
May 19 2013 06:11 GMT
#487
Dat all kill again! xD
(•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) ~Keep calm and inject Larva~
ne4aJIb
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Russian Federation3209 Posts
May 19 2013 06:53 GMT
#488
bogus man!
Bisu,Best,Stork,Jangbi and Flash, Fantasy, Leta, Light and Jaedong, Hydra, Zero, Soulkey assemble in ACE now!
Entirety
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
1423 Posts
May 19 2013 07:03 GMT
#489
I have INnoVation on my main team!

And sOs is doing great in the other match!

And Flash scored 2 kills earlier! KT won 4-1!

My FPL is doing wonderfully :D
IMMvp (정종현) | Fan Club: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211431
Proseat
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany5113 Posts
May 19 2013 07:13 GMT
#490
Scoring:

STX +6
CJ -2

Bogus +10

all other STX players +1
The Rise and Fall of SlayerS -- a timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=378097
rice_devOurer
Profile Joined July 2012
United States773 Posts
May 19 2013 07:14 GMT
#491
Umm... Guys, SNM said that innovation wrote a guide on pre- storm timings. Anyone know how to find it?
IN SOVIET RUSSIA ノ┬─┬ノ ︵ ( \o°o)\ Table Flips you
Ctesias
Profile Joined December 2012
4595 Posts
May 19 2013 07:45 GMT
#492
It's (another) good day to have Innovation on your main team. The points keep piling up.
Flash | Mvp
virpi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany3598 Posts
May 19 2013 08:06 GMT
#493
that innovation guy seems to be quite okay
first we make expand, then we defense it.
KobraKay
Profile Joined March 2010
Portugal4231 Posts
May 19 2013 08:41 GMT
#494
This is bogus man T_T...

Come on CJ turn this around, we can still have this season!!!
CJ Fighting! (--.--)
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
May 19 2013 08:42 GMT
#495
ouch bogus is ripping new ones
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
samurai80
Profile Joined November 2011
Japan4225 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-19 09:44:38
May 19 2013 09:40 GMT
#496
On May 19 2013 13:52 TimENT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:51 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:50 TimENT wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:49 Kinky wrote:
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.


In my eyes, it's:
Innovation >>> Life >> Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone

sOs 69% win rate all matchups code s semifinals not good enough? beat innovation last time they played


Oh. I just don't watch Protoss.

At least you're frank...
Really, those terran fanboys -.-
samurai80
Profile Joined November 2011
Japan4225 Posts
May 19 2013 09:42 GMT
#497
On May 19 2013 13:53 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:50 TimENT wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:49 Kinky wrote:
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.


In my eyes, it's:
Innovation >>> Life >> Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone

How is Innovation > Flash?
If Flash is 5-3 against Innovation?
Moreso..
Tier 1: Innovation/Flash/Life/sOs/Rain

Tier 2: Symbol/Taeja/SK/Roro/Parting

This makes sense. Although SK should be in Tier 1.
Thrillz
Profile Joined May 2012
4313 Posts
May 19 2013 09:44 GMT
#498
On May 19 2013 14:38 thebig1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 14:26 Waxangel wrote:
On May 19 2013 14:22 thebig1 wrote:
On May 19 2013 14:18 Waxangel wrote:
On May 19 2013 14:03 thebig1 wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:52 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:51 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:43 forsooth wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:37 rj rl wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:33 Popkiller wrote:
[quote]

there are guys who have won multiple GSLs and foreign tournaments, and there are guys who haven't. it's pretty simple.

I will pretend that foreign tournaments aren't irrelevant at all and answer to your whole message: the scene evolves and gets by far more gosu dense each year. Is it not simple for you?

Oh, you're one of those. Why didn't you just say so in the first place and not waste everyone's time?

seeing your im sign I bother not even trying to touch your holy mvp fanboyism,

As opposed to shamelessly fellating the Kespa pros and pretending like everything that happened before the switchover is meaningless?


Look, of course results from 2011 aren't meanlingless, that would be like saying Babe Ruth's home run record was meaningless. However, I don't think any baseball fan in their right mind would try and argue that the circumstances around his record can be compared to the records being set today. If you brought Babe Ruth forward in time, or sent Barry Bonds back it would be a total farce. The game has changed from then, it was A LOT easier to pull those kind of results back then than it is now.

This holds true for SC2 too. You even had pros talking about it on one of djwheat's shows the other day. If you sent one of them back to the early days of SC2 it would be a slaughter. Skill across the board has skyrocketed, and there are many more players at a high skill level now than back then.


This is a pretty interesting topic to think about, in terms of both traditional and electronic sports. Especially the "send a fringe pro back in time and he would dominate" thought experiment. At least in terms of esports, where there's a very small physical fitness/training/sports medicine factor, you can argue that the only advantage a modern player has is the strategic knowledge accumulated over the years. It could be argued the player sent back in time would only be dominant for a short period while others hadn't adopted to his strategies (he may not even be dominant at all if his strategies are so far ahead in the meta-game that it loses to a cheese meta executed by superior players), and then the more talented players would just adopt his strats and the fringe player would return to his previous position.


I definitely agree with that. I think it really depends on who is being sent back and how far back they are being sent. If you are just sending some random pro back, who is just going to win with knowledge then I agree that the dominance probably wouldn't last that long. Unless they were really clever about how they doled out their strategy.

However, if you sent someone back who is a mechanics monster, it could potentially take quite a while for people to be able to develop the mechanics to actually deal with 4 drops at once.


the question about mechanics is how much of it is innate, and how much of is it is just knowing which specific mechanics are important, and giving them the according amount of practice?



I would suspect that to a certain extent it's both. However, to some extent one has to admit that some of it is definitely trained. Knowing what specific mechanics are important I think would certainly accelerate the rate that it's improved, but it's interesting to wonder how much that would actually impact things. For example, the idea of multiple drops at once isn't something that's new. MMA was doing it back in the day, and it's obvious that he wasn't the first. I mean people were multitasking like that in Broodwar. However, the extent of the control that goes into it now compared to back then it immense. People micro more drops at once, while not letting their macro slip.
Is this just innate, or from practice over the years? Has it really taken years of practice to get to this point, or is it just innate ability of a few people? Thinking about it, it would be really interesting to see some stats about how players APM has risen over the years.


Also, while slightly off target, comparing the time travel thing in SC2 becomes more complicated than something like baseball, as patches have changed the way the game is balanced. There is no way of knowing that strategies used now would even work back then at all.


That's why no one ever does these types of comparisons. Sports HoF voting has always compared players with respect to their peers. Trying to throw and compare players raw skill in different eras is pointless.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
May 19 2013 09:55 GMT
#499
BoguS is nuts
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2603 Posts
May 19 2013 10:11 GMT
#500
Ofc I trade T8 for CJ and then CJ gets swept 4-0.
Luckily, I also have Innovation on my main.
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
crashonly
Profile Joined June 2010
Finland418 Posts
May 19 2013 10:21 GMT
#501
Ahhhh, my trading of Hydra for Bogus in FPL just paid off in a big way ^^

Bogus just seems to be better than just about everyone else on a good day.
mechengineer123
Profile Joined March 2013
Ukraine711 Posts
May 19 2013 10:36 GMT
#502
lol, it's not even surprising anymore
DreamOen
Profile Joined March 2010
Spain1400 Posts
May 19 2013 10:48 GMT
#503
Innovation is quite danny the dog, they release the beast and the beast delivers omg.
Tester | MC | Crank | Flash | Jaedong | MVP
warmus
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom196 Posts
May 19 2013 10:56 GMT
#504
On May 19 2013 18:42 samurai80 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:53 LighT. wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:50 TimENT wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:49 Kinky wrote:
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.


In my eyes, it's:
Innovation >>> Life >> Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone

How is Innovation > Flash?
If Flash is 5-3 against Innovation?
Moreso..
Tier 1: Innovation/Flash/Life/sOs/Rain

Tier 2: Symbol/Taeja/SK/Roro/Parting

This makes sense. Although SK should be in Tier 1.


Idd, good setup but there is no question SK is tier 1 alongside life
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 19 2013 10:58 GMT
#505
On May 19 2013 13:30 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:30 BigFan wrote:
no point in watching the last match, I know who's gonna win(I think lol). night all ^_^

yea...we all totally knew, turn was going to beat Innovation.

well, it was either missing sleep and watching Innovation all killing or HerO trying to all kill or go to sleep. I feel that I made the right choice lol.
PS look at sig ^^

Way to go Innovation! Too bad my FPL somehow disappeared on me so I have no team ><
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
May 19 2013 11:17 GMT
#506
LOL.
Everything went as planned.
Fuell
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands3111 Posts
May 19 2013 11:21 GMT
#507
On May 19 2013 18:42 samurai80 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 13:53 LighT. wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:50 TimENT wrote:
On May 19 2013 13:49 Kinky wrote:
Innovation is literally miles ahead of the rest of the Kespa players now, with Flash trailing a little bit behind.


In my eyes, it's:
Innovation >>> Life >> Flash >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone

How is Innovation > Flash?
If Flash is 5-3 against Innovation?
Moreso..
Tier 1: Innovation/Flash/Life/sOs/Rain

Tier 2: Symbol/Taeja/SK/Roro/Parting

This makes sense. Although SK should be in Tier 1.

PartinG is easily tier 1.. 7 code s in a row, watch sOs get murdered by SoulKey and you will think otherwise
fOu/Zenith/NEX/WeRRa/SlayerS
OrchidThief
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark2298 Posts
May 19 2013 11:56 GMT
#508
Innovation is a pretty good team.
Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3575 Posts
May 19 2013 12:23 GMT
#509
Innovation is completely tearing it up now.
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
xHQx
Profile Joined August 2012
Russian Federation601 Posts
May 19 2013 13:11 GMT
#510
On May 19 2013 19:21 crashonly wrote:
Ahhhh, my trading of Hydra for Bogus in FPL just paid off in a big way ^^

Bogus just seems to be better than just about everyone else on a good day.

banjo inc?
are you evolving?
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
May 19 2013 13:32 GMT
#511
Inno is bonjovi material.
Terran & Potato Salad.
xgtx
Profile Joined February 2009
227 Posts
May 19 2013 13:55 GMT
#512
innovation
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
May 19 2013 14:50 GMT
#513
nvm
sorry for dem one liners
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9021 Posts
May 19 2013 15:02 GMT
#514
Good thing we still have Flash.
suicideyear
Profile Joined December 2012
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
May 19 2013 15:19 GMT
#515
is innovation the next terran bojangles?
)))____◎◎◎◎█████
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
May 19 2013 15:36 GMT
#516
On May 19 2013 20:56 OrchidThief wrote:
Innovation is a pretty good team.


Innovation, Hellbats, Medivacs, Widow Mines.

That is the best lineup you can send out in Proleague today.
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
May 19 2013 16:43 GMT
#517
Always send out Innovation first instead of last as an ace. He does much better with less pressure lol. And when he can win the first game, he'll take the rest easily.
rj rl
Profile Joined May 2012
648 Posts
May 19 2013 17:06 GMT
#518
On May 20 2013 00:36 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 20:56 OrchidThief wrote:
Innovation is a pretty good team.


Innovation, Hellbats, Medivacs, Widow Mines.

That is the best lineup you can send out in Proleague today.

the mighty SCVs[shield] could snipe someone here and there also.
gingerfluffmuff
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria4570 Posts
May 19 2013 17:28 GMT
#519
On May 20 2013 00:36 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2013 20:56 OrchidThief wrote:
Innovation is a pretty good team.


Innovation, Marines, Medivacs, Widow Mines.

That is the best lineup you can send out in Proleague today.

Corrected for you.
・゚✧:・゚+..。✧・゚:・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚ ゜・:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING *・゜・:・゚✧:・゚✧。゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:・゜・:・゚✧::・・:・゚・゚
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
May 19 2013 18:14 GMT
#520
--- Nuked ---
GWdeathscythe
Profile Joined November 2012
Brazil1091 Posts
May 19 2013 21:32 GMT
#521
Man, Bogus is unstoppable. Really want him to go to GSL finals against Soulkey, it should be a great series.
JD is BONJWA!
affect
Profile Joined June 2010
United States60 Posts
May 19 2013 21:45 GMT
#522
I wouldn't say unstoppable, he lost the last two spl game prior to this one. If anyone is unstoppable it would be Zest.
im cool
Wojciech Zywny
Profile Joined April 2013
Poland271 Posts
May 19 2013 23:23 GMT
#523
On May 20 2013 06:45 affect wrote:
I wouldn't say unstoppable, he lost the last two spl game prior to this one. If anyone is unstoppable it would be Zest.



flash can, and has, beat innovation
Miecz przeznaczenia ma dwa ostrza. Jednym jesteś ty.
asdfOu
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2089 Posts
May 19 2013 23:47 GMT
#524
On May 19 2013 08:19 The_Templar wrote:
Dear reverse allkill, mark my words.

lol^
rip prime
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