Even if Hellbat drops seem really powerful these Roach counterattacks, even when they're not built on being ahead after scouting a proxyrax, seem so strong. It feels like it's likely that T has to play a bit safer and delay the drops to get out a tank or other defences.
On May 06 2013 17:48 LeeDawg wrote: so many zergs these days end the game with roach pushes vs greedy terrans. i wonder when terrans will adjust?
Difficult when going 3CC hellions without banshees
Even with banshees it's difficult
Even more so when you're doing a drop that's on the other side of the map when the attack comes (and then even more if the units die).
u kidding me? these roaches pushed are dead in hots with widow mines and free siege tanks :D it worked after bbyong failed an 8 rax proxy..
1 roach can trigger 2 widow mines without dying
And nobody is going to start making tanks randomly 10 minutes into the game unless they see the roaches coming, which would require aggressive hellion positioning, which bbyong didn't have. Seeing 3 roaches to counter a hellbat drop doesn't scream "roach timing".
They are very much still alive, it just requires slightly more micro than a-click a bunker down when there's widow mines about.
On May 06 2013 17:48 LeeDawg wrote: so many zergs these days end the game with roach pushes vs greedy terrans. i wonder when terrans will adjust?
Difficult when going 3CC hellions without banshees
Even with banshees it's difficult
Even more so when you're doing a drop that's on the other side of the map when the attack comes (and then even more if the units die).
u kidding me? these roaches pushed are dead in hots with widow mines and free siege tanks :D it worked after bbyong failed an 8 rax proxy..
1 roach can trigger 2 widow mines without dying
And nobody is going to start making tanks randomly 10 minutes into the game unless they see the roaches coming, which would require aggressive hellion positioning, which bbyong didn't have. Seeing 3 roaches to counter a hellbat drop doesn't scream "roach timing".
They are very much still alive, it just requires slightly more micro than a-click a bunker down when there's widow mines about.
On May 06 2013 17:48 LeeDawg wrote: so many zergs these days end the game with roach pushes vs greedy terrans. i wonder when terrans will adjust?
Difficult when going 3CC hellions without banshees
Even with banshees it's difficult
Even more so when you're doing a drop that's on the other side of the map when the attack comes (and then even more if the units die).
u kidding me? these roaches pushed are dead in hots with widow mines and free siege tanks :D it worked after bbyong failed an 8 rax proxy..
1 roach can trigger 2 widow mines without dying
And nobody is going to start making tanks randomly 10 minutes into the game unless they see the roaches coming, which would require aggressive hellion positioning, which bbyong didn't have. Seeing 3 roaches to counter a hellbat drop doesn't scream "roach timing".
They are very much still alive, it just requires slightly more micro than a-click a bunker down when there's widow mines about.
On May 06 2013 18:13 Zerg.Zilla wrote: Ah fuck...can't believe he didn't see the nydus in his main :/
Would that have made that big a difference though? I don't think Mekia could've hold off from his natural with the extra roaches that came into the main.
On May 06 2013 18:17 EpiK wrote: just send out sos and end this. Wouldn't want to give the wrong idea to CJ entus's head that they can actually win this LOL
On May 06 2013 18:40 teddyoojo wrote: im always confused by americans saying "myself and xx" isnt that considered BM in america aswell? or is it only germany?
On May 06 2013 18:40 teddyoojo wrote: im always confused by americans saying "myself and xx" isnt that considered BM in america aswell? or is it only germany?
not BM so much as improper manners i guess, it's not something to get your knickers in a twist over, but just nice to do (imo)
Man, i cant stand the talk about void charge. It was NEVER used in this game to do additional dmg. I hope the casters even realize this, but i guess not.
Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
Funny thing is, if Hero went Colossi first, he probably could of got a second colossi out during the battle and might of held. Or if he went Robo before 3rd stargate.
On May 06 2013 19:01 samurai80 wrote: Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
On May 06 2013 18:59 [OGN]Remmy wrote: Soulkey beat Skytoss with Queen/Hydralisk. WOW I just can't believe that, cuz the games I saw were always ened with Skytoss won.
thats not remotely close to the complete skytoss nightmare. herO needs a few more VoidRays, a couple of tempest and some zealots/colossus to buffer (with good upgrade). That said, Planet S is not really a good map for toss to turtle on 3 bases
On May 06 2013 19:01 Thrillz wrote: Funny thing is, if Hero went Colossi first, he probably could of got a second colossi out during the battle and might of held. Or if he went Robo before 3rd stargate.
I think the pressure from Soulkey would have come earlier then.
On May 06 2013 19:01 samurai80 wrote: Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
On May 06 2013 19:01 Thrillz wrote: Funny thing is, if Hero went Colossi first, he probably could of got a second colossi out during the battle and might of held. Or if he went Robo before 3rd stargate.
I think the pressure from Soulkey would have come earlier then.
Soulkey wouldn't of known that, I think his overseer only saw the stargate in the main, but didn't scout the 3rd stargate that was added at the nat. I think Soulkey just hit THE PERFECT timing.
On May 06 2013 19:01 samurai80 wrote: Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
WHY DOESN'T ANYONE LOVE ORACLES?
From this point in the game ? What I said applies in the case you do this kind of early pressure versus the zerg and switch to skytoss. After this, oracles aren't going to do much to secure your skytoss army.
On May 06 2013 19:01 samurai80 wrote: Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
WHY DOESN'T ANYONE LOVE ORACLES?
dont worry Blizzard will buff Oracle until everyone loves it, same for other HotS units
On May 06 2013 19:01 Thrillz wrote: Funny thing is, if Hero went Colossi first, he probably could of got a second colossi out during the battle and might of held. Or if he went Robo before 3rd stargate.
I think the pressure from Soulkey would have come earlier then.
Soulkey wouldn't of known that, I think his overseer only saw the stargate in the main, but didn't scout the 3rd stargate that was added at the nat. I think Soulkey just hit THE PERFECT timing.
Yeah Soulkey dealt with the skytoss nightmare perfectly. This is why I was thinking about what protoss should have done against such a good counter. HTs+zealots instead of colossi, and then tempests maybe ?
On May 06 2013 19:01 samurai80 wrote: Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
WHY DOESN'T ANYONE LOVE ORACLES?
They are something like Mutas, except that they have high dps against Light units, cost more and can't attack air, but they are terrible in direct engagements because of their low range, so if the guy has 20 Hydras, about 3 Oracles will die before they even attack. And he had mixed Hydras with Queens, and Oracles can't beat that many Queens.
Right now, Oracles are just early game harass units, and may be used later for Revelation, but this might change with the next patch, because Oracles will be the same speed of Mutas.
On May 06 2013 19:01 samurai80 wrote: Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
WHY DOESN'T ANYONE LOVE ORACLES?
From this point in the game ? What I said applies in the case you do this kind of early pressure versus the zerg and switch to skytoss. After this, oracles aren't going to do much to secure your skytoss army.
4 oracles in that mix, losing a voidray or two, would kill all them hydras np
On May 06 2013 19:01 samurai80 wrote: Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
On May 06 2013 19:01 Thrillz wrote: Funny thing is, if Hero went Colossi first, he probably could of got a second colossi out during the battle and might of held. Or if he went Robo before 3rd stargate.
I think the pressure from Soulkey would have come earlier then.
Soulkey wouldn't of known that, I think his overseer only saw the stargate in the main, but didn't scout the 3rd stargate that was added at the nat. I think Soulkey just hit THE PERFECT timing.
Yeah Soulkey dealt with the skytoss nightmare perfectly. This is why I was thinking about what protoss should have done against such a good counter. HTs+zealots instead of colossi, and then tempests maybe ?
Templars would work too, but he didn't have the gas or archives. If he went Robo before 3rd stargate and immediately Colossi he holds.
On May 06 2013 19:01 samurai80 wrote: Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
On May 06 2013 19:01 samurai80 wrote: Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
WHY DOESN'T ANYONE LOVE ORACLES?
because they have about ten HP
Yes, 100 HP and 60 shield is really low...
For an quite expensive protoss unit, yes.
tanks are 25 less gas, way slower, and have the same hp
On May 06 2013 19:01 samurai80 wrote: Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
WHY DOESN'T ANYONE LOVE ORACLES?
because they have about ten HP
Yes, 100 HP and 60 shield is really low...
For an quite expensive protoss unit, yes.
No, you can't look at it that way. It is expensive, very fast, with very high dps against Light units and some other solid abilities. It will be even faster, if it had more HP, you wouldn't be able to kill it.
On May 06 2013 19:01 samurai80 wrote: Queens are pretty good. This is why you need to switch to tempest asap for skytoss. But then you need to stop hydras. VRs, HTs then tempests ? On a defensive position herO would have been able to feedback those queens imo. HTs feedback queens, vipers (if there are), and infestors, while they can storm hydras. Better than colossi imo. This is also what Grubby said.
WHY DOESN'T ANYONE LOVE ORACLES?
because they have about ten HP
Yes, 100 HP and 60 shield is really low...
For an quite expensive protoss unit, yes.
tanks are 25 less gas, way slower, and have the same hp
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Mekia <Naro Station> 
Bbyong![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
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