[SPL] EG-TL vs. KT Rolster R4 - Page 85

On April 15 2013 22:38 DarkLordOlli wrote:


Hate the game, not the player!

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On April 15 2013 22:23 lichter wrote:


The thing is, having a higher skill ceiling can mean that there is more skill variation from the mean, but it can also mean that players are playing at a greater distance from perfection. Which means players play with inherently more acceptable mistakes, instead of having more 'good' actions. BW was so hard that it was impossible not to make mistakes. No one was even close to reaching that ceiling, and only at that ceiling is there no mistakes.

Also, I insist that the nature of both games is that while the BW skill ceiling was higher, SC2's skill ceiling is still high enough that it will never be reached. I know that is a bold statement to make, but if the ceiling were reachable, then players would be able to micro their bio individually, to avoid splash damage and projectiles, and focus fire with absolutely no overkill. There is still so much room for units to become efficient. I'm sure everyone will agree that we will never reach that point of marines never dying to banelings. So while the BW ceiling is higher, definitely, SC2's is still realistically infinite. Comparing infinites only makes sense for mathematicians. There is no practical difference.

The harshness of SC2 has more to do with terrible terrible damage, unit clumping, and the speed of the game rather than the existence of micro or multitask. In fact considering macro in SC2 is so much simplified, we're still not seeing micro on the level of BW. And it's not because there's nothing to micro.

On April 15 2013 22:43 purakushi wrote:


I pretty much agree with you, but you also have to consider the possibility of skill. Sure, technically, the skill caps for both SC2 and BW are infinite; however, while there is a theoretical infinite skill cap on the game itself, humans are capped by our capacities to move, make decisions, multitask, etc. While SC2, in general, moves quicker than in BW (and some may call that a reason that it is more difficult than BW), the possibility for micro (etc) does not extend itself to SC2 as much as BW allows for itself.
No, I do not believe we are quite there, yet. But I do see a very clear limit on the use of specific units, decision-making, and multitasking you can do in SC2 just because it is a faster game than in BW. Micro and multitasking exist, no doubt about it, but the things players can actually do with what they have (themselves, units, hotkeys, UI, etc) are more limited than BW. We will never see micro in SC2 on the level of BW (or at least in the same manner; it is difficult in its own way, though). One reason (along with the ones you mention and related to clumping) has to do with that SC2 army interactions have to do with groups of units rather than individual units.

Oh, well. I have long come to accept that SC2 is a very different game from BW. I embrace and look forward to how good it can get in its own way, but I still miss many things from BW. I will admit that SC2 does do some things better than BW, though. If only we could have the best of both worlds.

On April 15 2013 22:44 tozi wrote:
I think flash is probably one of the best terrans (maybe second only to innovation) when the game goes past 15min. His game sense, decision making, macro, and micro are all on point.

However, it seems that he really needs to work on his early game knowledge/awareness. He needs to know that players won't want to go standard on him because he is so scary mid-late game. Flash has died twice to Jaedong with all-in baneling busts and has also lost to Jangbi with a onebase allin.

Cmon, he has the potential to easily be top 5 in the world, taking out players like Innovation, Parting, Rain, and Fantasy in recent series. He just needs to be aware that many players will study the hell out of all his games and hard counter is build orders, which is what has been happening.

Once he surmounts this mini-slump and gets his act together, no one can stop him.

On April 15 2013 22:29 dreamseller wrote:


it really felt like he had time to transition into vipers, that's what most detractors here are getting at i believe

On April 15 2013 22:51 lichter wrote:
Flash is good past 15 minutes because his macro is so good. But also because he is greedy as fuck. If other great players were as greedy as him they'd be even with Flash past 15 minutes. Aside from great macro Flash hasn't really shown great game sense (where is that star sense he used to have?) or micro. Good, but not great.

On April 15 2013 22:51 lichter wrote:

Flash is good past 15 minutes because his macro is so good. But also because he is greedy as fuck. If other great players were as greedy as him they'd be even with Flash past 15 minutes. Aside from great macro Flash hasn't really shown great game sense (where is that star sense he used to have?) or micro. Good, but not great.

On April 15 2013 23:03 aurum510 wrote:
Could someone explain the ace match to me? What I mean is, I think I watched proleague once when it went to an ace match and one team chose their ace, then the other team chose their ace. Does the second team have to choose their ace BEFORE they see the first team's ace or can they do it after?

On April 15 2013 22:57 Shantastic wrote:


He didn't. That's the point. He did a tech all-in, failed to capitalize, and vipers take an insanely long time to get ready. Infestation Pit 50s, Hive 100s, Vipers 40s, and another 20s just for each Viper to have an Abduct, let alone Blinding Cloud = MINIMUM 3.5 minutes, probably more. And that's against a Protoss that already has 3 Void Rays, 2 Colossi, and a solid sentry count. He just got more corruptors and prayed. The game was lost about 5 minutes before Stats went for the attack.

Taking the gold is an all-in strategy. You can't defend it; your only chance is to capitalize on it quickly and gain a big enough army advantage to keep going/win. If Jaedong wanted to transition, he should have gone for a big army engagement BEFORE the VR/Stalker count got out of control, instead of guerrilla-style base-snipes. Forcing a counter-attack is not what a Zerg wants with such a precariously placed expansion.

On April 15 2013 23:17 HotGlueGun wrote:
KT Coach knew everyone was expecting Flash so he threw out Stats, smart move. We really need Taeja to come back as the reliable ace player.

On April 15 2013 23:18 DidYuhim wrote:

He should just whine on twitter before each game and he will be the best ace ever.(he was saying that he should retire before getting first out of his GSL group)