|
On April 13 2013 22:37 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 06:49 oneofthem wrote:On April 13 2013 06:46 Irre wrote:On April 13 2013 06:40 oneofthem wrote:
mkp is everything wrong with sc2. yeah...the 3rd most winning, and one of the msot innovative terrans in Sc2 is everything wrong with the game....so mad if your game allows this kind of mass tier 1 unit strat to have this much success, your game is pretty sad. Well said. The best part about this is that people deny Marines have a design problem, yet they rail on the Colossus. Both units are incredibly similar in that Colossus and Marines can easily dominate the game, and require people to build their hard counters in order to handle them (Banelings, Infestors, Colossus and High Templars vs Marines and Corrupters, Vikings, Vipers and Tempests/Voidrays vs Colossus). This kind of game design is just silly in both cases, but there is a big difference here. Colossus are a lot higher up the tech tree and require a lot of gas, which means you can't both tech to Colossus and build other gas intensive units early. But feel free to mix Marines with any type of tech (oh remembering the 1-1-2 and 1-1-1 in PvT makes me shudder) because they are low tech and only require minerals. Or just mass them. They are good without upgrades, and scale wonderfully with upgrades and have a very high micro potential compared to Colossus. For those reasons, we see people switch out the Colossus once their opponent has the counters, yet people still mass Marines. Great you now have access to Tanks, you going to get some? Nah, just more Marines... hey you got the armory for Thors? Nah just for Marines upgrades, I'm gonna to build more Marines...
Sadly mech isn't viable TvP and marines are..
Colossi are boring because they can't be microed. Marines are exciting because their effectiveness stands or falls with micro.
|
On April 13 2013 22:32 ZenithM wrote:Proof that some 10k+ post users still don't know shit about Starcraft.
Proof that some 7k+ users still don't know shit about Starcraft
|
On April 13 2013 23:04 Koesader wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 22:37 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 13 2013 06:49 oneofthem wrote:On April 13 2013 06:46 Irre wrote:On April 13 2013 06:40 oneofthem wrote:
mkp is everything wrong with sc2. yeah...the 3rd most winning, and one of the msot innovative terrans in Sc2 is everything wrong with the game....so mad if your game allows this kind of mass tier 1 unit strat to have this much success, your game is pretty sad. Well said. The best part about this is that people deny Marines have a design problem, yet they rail on the Colossus. Both units are incredibly similar in that Colossus and Marines can easily dominate the game, and require people to build their hard counters in order to handle them (Banelings, Infestors, Colossus and High Templars vs Marines and Corrupters, Vikings, Vipers and Tempests/Voidrays vs Colossus). This kind of game design is just silly in both cases, but there is a big difference here. Colossus are a lot higher up the tech tree and require a lot of gas, which means you can't both tech to Colossus and build other gas intensive units early. But feel free to mix Marines with any type of tech (oh remembering the 1-1-2 and 1-1-1 in PvT makes me shudder) because they are low tech and only require minerals. Or just mass them. They are good without upgrades, and scale wonderfully with upgrades and have a very high micro potential compared to Colossus. For those reasons, we see people switch out the Colossus once their opponent has the counters, yet people still mass Marines. Great you now have access to Tanks, you going to get some? Nah, just more Marines... hey you got the armory for Thors? Nah just for Marines upgrades, I'm gonna to build more Marines... Sadly mech isn't viable TvP and marines are.. Colossi are boring because they can't be microed. Marines are exciting because their effectiveness stands or falls with micro.
It is sad Mech isn't viable. And that is why oneofthem was correct when he said "if your game allows this kind of mass tier 1 unit strat to have this much success, your game is pretty sad." And this isn't about balance, it is about game design.
Marines don't need to be so strong for Terran to be successful. You can tone them down a bit and change them, and make their higher tier units (Tanks and Thors) a lot better. Also there is nothing that says high tier units have to be these big, bulky a-move units that don't have a lot of micro potential (Ultras, Thors, Colossus, Battlecruisers, Broodlords, ect..) the way that Blizzard makes them. The fact that Marines are so strong and cheap and can be mixed with any tech unit basically waters down their tech units by necessity for balance. And it forces Terran players to use Marines.
Sad.
|
On April 13 2013 23:21 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 22:32 ZenithM wrote:On April 13 2013 06:40 oneofthem wrote:
mkp is everything wrong with sc2. Proof that some 10k+ post users still don't know shit about Starcraft. Proof that some 7k+ users still don't know shit about Starcraft
At least you and I are only shitting on TL users, not on a progamer and the game of Starcraft 2 in the same one-liner.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the amount of variety in mkp's play basically boils down to how many and how soon marine marauders he'll make. if this si what you consider different builds, fine. but it's not very interesting.
and mkp would not do well with this kind of play in bw. ok, maybe as a protoss, but lol.
|
On April 14 2013 01:08 oneofthem wrote:
the amount of variety in mkp's play basically boils down to how many and how soon marine marauders he'll make. if this si what you consider different builds, fine. but it's not very interesting
That's the most laughable criticism of MarineKing I've ever heard. Firstly, you just described every pro terran player ever. Nobody uses anything other than marine/marauder/medivac aside from early Goody, who eventually switched to using it. Secondly, MarineKing has far more builds than any other terran in TvP so your statement is so off that I guess you must be trolling
|
herO is really going down recently. Without him doing well, how can CJ make playoff? EG-TL will probably replace them as one of the playoff team.
|
Not to mention that in Brood War, outside of all-ins, there was also only one viable composition in TvP.
|
MKP....
The Kong line is strong within him.
|
On April 14 2013 01:08 oneofthem wrote:
the amount of variety in mkp's play basically boils down to how many and how soon marine marauders he'll make. if this si what you consider different builds, fine. but it's not very interesting.
and mkp would not do well with this kind of play in bw. ok, maybe as a protoss, but lol.
While I admit that MKP is far from his peak strength right now, in early 2012 he was basically doing everything Terran had in store and winning anyway with it. He was mixing in mech (with even some mech games in WoL TvP, wut?), some marine/medivac/thor styles vs Z, waaaaaaay more various timing attacks/all ins, like blue flame hellions or 2 port banshees.
And of course, "BW is superior blablablablabla...". *Yawn*.
|
I would not want to play a game the required you to tech every time. I think sc is awesome because you can win with t1/t2/t3. It all comes down to play style, and it makes it where there are all sorts of awesome builds + cheese/variety. If you had to tech every game to win, it would super stale and very easy to anticipate what was coming. Keep StarCraft the way it is :D
|
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
haha itt people whining like it's 2010... beta 2010
|
lol this thread is really funny, keep coming back here
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On April 14 2013 01:34 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:
Not to mention that in Brood War, outside of all-ins, there was also only one viable composition in TvP.
This is pretty funny.
BW TvP was mech and only mech (aside from wonky builds), with units far more 'A-move-able' than SC2 bio, and yet SC2 bio is a design problem while BW mech isn't. Awesome.
|
i cant tell if its bw elitism, anti-terran whining, anti-mkp whining, or somebody mistaking CJherO for TL's HerO
|
On April 13 2013 22:37 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 06:49 oneofthem wrote:On April 13 2013 06:46 Irre wrote:On April 13 2013 06:40 oneofthem wrote:
mkp is everything wrong with sc2. yeah...the 3rd most winning, and one of the msot innovative terrans in Sc2 is everything wrong with the game....so mad if your game allows this kind of mass tier 1 unit strat to have this much success, your game is pretty sad. Well said. The best part about this is that people deny Marines have a design problem, yet they rail on the Colossus. Both units are incredibly similar in that Colossus and Marines can easily dominate the game, and require people to build their hard counters in order to handle them (Banelings, Infestors, Colossus and High Templars vs Marines and Corrupters, Vikings, Vipers and Tempests/Voidrays vs Colossus). This kind of game design is just silly in both cases, but there is a big difference here. Colossus are a lot higher up the tech tree and require a lot of gas, which means you can't both tech to Colossus and build other gas intensive units early. But feel free to mix Marines with any type of tech (oh remembering the 1-1-2 and 1-1-1 in PvT makes me shudder) because they are low tech and only require minerals. Or just mass them. They are good without upgrades, and scale wonderfully with upgrades and have a very high micro potential compared to Colossus. For those reasons, we see people switch out the Colossus once their opponent has the counters, yet people still mass Marines. Great you now have access to Tanks, you going to get some? Nah, just more Marines... hey you got the armory for Thors? Nah just for Marines upgrades, I'm gonna to build more Marines...
what a low level analysis lol
just to add some content.
the reason why people don't add thors is because it competely destroys the flow of bio style
building thor requires more factories, another tech upgrade path, slows down drops and marine run bys.
Tanks and thors don't even dish out enough dps to take out a nice protoss army.
stop with the "tier" thinking. As if terrans aren't building vikings and ghost to counter your "tier 3" units
|
He also said marines are good without upgrades lol. That's some silver league thinking right there. Marines without stim, CC, AND medivacs are absolutely terrible. How many times do you see terran push out with marines without at least two of those?
|
wow, 2013 people are whining about MARINES? REALLY? REALLY TL?
This is close to sc2 beta
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
