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On March 01 2013 20:03 Maesy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:01 liberate71 wrote:On March 01 2013 19:59 Maesy wrote:On March 01 2013 19:58 Jankisa wrote:On March 01 2013 19:54 TheDwf wrote:On March 01 2013 19:53 Jankisa wrote:
That put aside, RorO was definetlly the better player here, he played amazingly, best creep spread I have seen this expansion, flawless macro and great harass. Is this a joke? If you have a replay or a vod for me to see where zerg spread creep this well against this good of an opponent I'd be happy to watch it. Scarlett vs Ryung and getting it into his 3rd base (While Ryung was in the Ro4 of Code S at that same venue days later) Come back later and try again. Ive never seen creep spread quite as insane as Roro was on Daybreak and Cloud kingdom... but I havent seen those Scarlett' games. This isn't the exact game but this is pretty precise on how the map looked. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RPfIL.png)
I'd still like to see the vod/replay, this game was pretty tense, Taeja was trying to push back creep, also in the first game Roro had insane creep spread, but this time Taeja menaged to clean some of it up. In the game scarlett and ryung played, I can't know if Scarlett did a lot of damage early and forced Ryung to play passive and by that had free reign over the map.
I'm not trying to disrespect scarlett, but this is the GSL semifinal, and while Ryung is a great player, Scarlett has yet to translate her sick creepsread and success in general to a bigger stage. My original thought was that to me, RorO's play in general, and especially his creep spread were one of the best this expansion.
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On March 01 2013 19:51 eGoRama wrote:
Just opened the Twitch channel, was a nice game. Also - ROFL at the crying in this LR :D
3 Zerg GSL winners in a row, nothing else is to be expected 
It ends how it has started for WoL.
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On March 01 2013 20:08 herMan wrote:
I'd just like to say that the main reason for the Terran domination in 2011 was that the game wasn't as well figured out yet. As more time passes, the bigger lead Zerg gets because it has such an advantageous race design (larvae, creep spread, single tech structures). The infestor buff was a too powerful for the role it was meant to have, leading to its subsequent nerf.
The Queen Range and Overlord buffs (in early 2012) played a huge role.
Before Zerg had to invest in a lot to defend against things like Hellions.
Now Zerg can use Queen which can defend and do what they usually do (spread creep, larva inject, etc).
But yeah, I do agree that one of the reasons Zerg is also really strong is because Zergs know what to do now.
Zerg is definitely the strongest race in WoL if you know what to do (like all BOs, etc) (this isn't saying it from a mechanical perspective though, I think Terran is the strongest if someone has the best mechanics and game knowledge).
Despite that, I'll definitely watch the ZvZ finals (it's better than PvP). ZvZ isn't that bad of a match up, there's lots of potential.
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On March 01 2013 20:08 Buchan wrote:
Zerg with really effective early game cheeses and strongest late game. All early game Terran cheese shut down by queens, so Terran has to play greedy to keep up and aim for a strong mid game timing. And that is all Terran can do in TvZ in WoL.
that sums it up pretty well.
But Roro was showing a great performance aswell.
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On March 01 2013 20:11 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:10 Savant.GL wrote:
furthermore there are plenty of 2 base builds terran can do that blow heavy queen play out of the water Really? Enlighten us then, write the full list.
Many variations of polt style pushes that involve hellions, marauders and marines
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On March 01 2013 20:10 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:08 herMan wrote:
I'd just like to say that the main reason for the Terran domination in 2011 was that the game wasn't as well figured out yet. As more time passes, the bigger lead Zerg gets because it has such an advantageous race design (larvae, creep spread, single tech structures). The infestor buff was a too powerful for the role it was meant to have, leading to its subsequent nerf. Yeah Snipe was rathe well balanced i have to say, Just to name one.
Yeah you're correct on that one. I didn't like the way it was nerfed into oblivion though. What I'm trying to say here is that in general the game wasn't so much imbalanced, people were not just playing it right yet.
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On March 01 2013 20:07 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:04 Fjodorov wrote:On March 01 2013 20:00 negativedge wrote:
The dumb part is people are complaining about ZERG IMBA when this series was almost all old fashioned ZvT from Roro. There was no infestor/brood/spine turtling at all. Roro outplayed Taeja. He played a smart, tough, skillfull series, and he's no fluke. He's the best kespa zerg. Get over yourselves.
And, of course, at no point int he HISTORY OF THE GSL were Zergs every as dominant as Terrans were for the SIX MONTHS of GomTvT that everyone conveniently forgets about whats old fashioned about 10 queens, infinite map control, creep at terrans base at 13min, 4 hatch at 10 min, constantly 60 larva at the zergs disposal? Anyways, Roro is obviously extremely good so grats to him but im afraid the winner of this GSL wont get the full cred he might deserve. *Roro destroys Taeja's 3rd with constant ling runbys preventing hellions from denying creep, delays terran push timing and economy* Whiners: Zerg imba!!!
You are using "destroys" quite liberally here aren't you?
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On March 01 2013 20:10 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:08 herMan wrote:
I'd just like to say that the main reason for the Terran domination in 2011 was that the game wasn't as well figured out yet. As more time passes, the bigger lead Zerg gets because it has such an advantageous race design (larvae, creep spread, single tech structures). The infestor buff was a too powerful for the role it was meant to have, leading to its subsequent nerf. Yeah Snipe was rathe well balanced i have to say, Just to name one.
The nerf came after one series. And Nestea sat on a giant bank which he blindly threw away. Great way to judge imbalance.
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On March 01 2013 20:09 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:07 Fionn wrote:
Roro kicked Taeja's ass. Taeja got to the semifinals with some luck, placing 2nd in both group stages and then hanging on to beat Soulkey 3-2. Roro is the better player in this tournament. He is worthy of being a GSL champion.
But fuck ZvZ. This tbh. The only ZvZs I enjoy, in general, involved Nestea or Life 
The only ZvZ I was able to enjoy was Life vs Leenock with a lot of mindgames and just a huge load of ling/bling micro.
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On March 01 2013 20:13 Savant.GL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:11 TheDwf wrote:On March 01 2013 20:10 Savant.GL wrote:
furthermore there are plenty of 2 base builds terran can do that blow heavy queen play out of the water Really? Enlighten us then, write the full list. Many variations of polt style pushes that involve hellions, marauders and marines
Doesn't work at all. Anything else?
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I really would have liked to have seen the last 6 months or so how games would have gone if the queen buff was reverted.
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On March 01 2013 20:11 Alak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:07 negativedge wrote:On March 01 2013 20:04 n0ise wrote:On March 01 2013 20:02 Sc2Null wrote:On March 01 2013 20:01 Snusmumriken wrote:On March 01 2013 19:59 Wertheron wrote:
OOOOOOOH. Stop it terrans, you were the race the most imba during one year and a half and we had a plenty of TvT finals (and no, it's not better than ZvZ). The difference is that you expect a game to actually get MORE balanced after 3 years than it was in the beginning. When you end up with this, suffice to say someone bungled at the job. or people are just butt hurt cause taeja, who everyone(~70%) wanted to see win; now we cry imba...as LR threads usually go To address your main point, the main reason people wanted taeja to win was to avoid the 1000th anniversary edition of a ZvZ finals in the last year of wol :D 3 ZvZ GSL finals counting this one. 5 TvT finals. Huh? Liquipedia seems to say 3 Code S TvTs, unless the 2011 Super Tournament counts (I honestly don't remember the details of that tournament, so it may well be 4 TvTs)
Super Tournament and GSL World Championship were TvTs in addition to Mvp/Marineking, Mvp/TOP, and Mvp/MMA in regular Code S.
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On March 01 2013 20:08 herMan wrote:
I'd just like to say that the main reason for the Terran domination in 2011 was that the game wasn't as well figured out yet. As more time passes, the bigger lead Zerg gets because it has such an advantageous race design (larvae, creep spread, single tech structures). The infestor buff was a too powerful for the role it was meant to have, leading to its subsequent nerf.
Yeah i think the improved mechanics of the best zergs makes a big difference. Who was hitting perfect injects on 3+ hatcherys in 2011? It makes all the difference and zerg macro gets out of control by design when players reach a certain level.
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On March 01 2013 20:03 Sc2Null wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:01 Zealously wrote:On March 01 2013 19:59 Snusmumriken wrote:
"youre still gonna watch the finals". No Tastosis, I most certainly am not.
Okay sure you won't, last WOL Finals; if anything you're going to watch it to see roro lose. If someone wasn't going to watch the finals, they wouldn't post it hoping to get attention.
How about no? Im so sick of zvz fiinals, not just in code s but in pretty much every damn major tournament for the last several months. And so is a hell of a lot of people. I rather watch gossip girl than another zvz, and I fucking hate gossip girl.
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Not another ZvZ final ... Not again ...
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On March 01 2013 20:05 Savant.GL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:03 braller wrote:
BL/Infestor affects even the matches that you don't see it in, because it dramatically narrows the range of strategies Terran can use. And of course the absurd power of queens was on direct display in this series, So even though he never used BL infestor, it still had a dramatic effect on the matchup?...I'm curious what brilliant strategies exist that terran can't do because of BL infestor, which terran can scout anyway.
Terrans can't simply turtle because of BL/infestor. And their only other real option to put pressure is usually some sort of 2/2 marine tank push or similar mech push. There are no strategies to attack zerg that can't be easily scouted and defended.
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On March 01 2013 20:13 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:13 Savant.GL wrote:On March 01 2013 20:11 TheDwf wrote:On March 01 2013 20:10 Savant.GL wrote:
furthermore there are plenty of 2 base builds terran can do that blow heavy queen play out of the water Really? Enlighten us then, write the full list. Many variations of polt style pushes that involve hellions, marauders and marines Doesn't work at all. Anything else?
I think polt has proved many times that it works just fine.
It probably doesn't work for you but that is for an entirely different reason
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On March 01 2013 20:13 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:10 Lysanias wrote:On March 01 2013 20:08 herMan wrote:
I'd just like to say that the main reason for the Terran domination in 2011 was that the game wasn't as well figured out yet. As more time passes, the bigger lead Zerg gets because it has such an advantageous race design (larvae, creep spread, single tech structures). The infestor buff was a too powerful for the role it was meant to have, leading to its subsequent nerf. Yeah Snipe was rathe well balanced i have to say, Just to name one. The nerf came after one series. And Nestea sat on a giant bank which he blindly threw away. Great way to judge imbalance.
Was it Snipe that was imbalanced, or was it Mvp?
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On March 01 2013 20:09 p14c wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:05 baubo wrote:On March 01 2013 20:00 negativedge wrote:
The dumb part is people are complaining about ZERG IMBA when this series was almost all old fashioned ZvT from Roro. There was no infestor/brood/spine turtling at all. Roro outplayed Taeja. He played a smart, tough, skillfull series, and he's no fluke. He's the best kespa zerg. Get over yourselves. The sad thing is, if DRG or Life had done this exact same thing, I bet you this thread would be full of "DRGs just on a different level from Taeja" or "Life is simply invincible right now." But because Roro's so unknown, it somehow has to be because zerg is an imbalanced race. It sucks that there are no longer constructive criticism of the game these days, because there's only whinning for the sake of whining. Yeah Roro is the better player but still Zergs are winning everything for the last 6 months. It cannot be only skill.
everyone points to broodlord/infestor but more so than that, its Queens Queens Queens.
Once Roro had six+ out, he could always drag it to the long game. Insane creep is just an added bonus. Before Queen buffs how did Terran win? Killing them before they had the perfect Blord/Infestor/ling army. You try going 6 queens early game with 4 range. Early defense won't be the negligable apm micro that's currently required.
Remember those awesome games when the first 15min would be insane trading between lings/blings versus marines. No more. Or the hellion vs ling queen standoffs? Where Zerg actually had to fight to take a third against T? No more.
Its either roach bust by zerg or a long macro game. The latter is fun but not when Zerg's have it so easy.
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EPT
