On March 01 2013 20:15 Fionn wrote: I don't think anyone dislikes Roro. The Zerg could have been anyone and people would still be pissed at him because people are fucking sick and tired of ZvZ in WoL. Yes, it's not a bad match-up, and it can have some really fun series, but when we've seen GSL 2012 S4, S5, Iron Squid, MLG Dallas, IPL5, Homestory Cup, other tournaments I'm probably forgetting, and now, to break the camel's back, the LAST WoL Code S tournament, then yeah, people are going to be distraught and have to fight to care.
If you're a Roro fan or a Symbol fan, then it really won't matter much because you simply want your player to win and have a heavy rooting interest. If you're a mild fan of either or have no dog in the fight, then after seeing so much ZvZ the past six months, why should you give a fuck anymore?
I totally agree. Roro deserved the win in this series as he simply played better and I don't dislike him as a player. But having another tournament, especially one as hyped up as the last WoL Code S, end in a ZvZ finals is getting extremely dull. And it's not one or two Zergs dominating and placing high, you mostly have different ones showing up in (semi-)finals every time.
On March 01 2013 20:18 Xpace wrote: GOM is not responsible for in-game balance and patches, but they are responsible for running the best tournaments in the world from the beginning of SC2.
NOT watching the finals because it's a ZvZ will not achieve anything; in fact it only hurts GOM's viewership count. It will not send a message to Blizzard that you're butthurt about Zerg, or you hate the match-up, or whatever reason you may have.
On the other hand, no one is forcing you to watch what you don't want to watch. I certainly am not. But I do support GOM and the GSL, it sucks that their last WoL tournament is ZvZ again.
Thus, I will be "watching" the finals, muted, on another tab, but I will be playing Crysis 3.
):
I'm sure people will watch. Just knowing it's another ZvZ makes people angry.
It's like if you're hungry for dinner, your mom comes home, and cooks the same meal for the 22nd night in a row. You're going to groan, bitch, and be mad for a bit to eat the same shit again for 22nd night, but you'll eventually get hungry, be thankful the food is on the table and eat it.
Or you go to mcdonalds and over time you get fat and eventually you die from cardiac arrest. Thank you mom.
On March 01 2013 19:59 Wertheron wrote: OOOOOOOH. Stop it terrans, you were the race the most imba during one year and a half and we had a plenty of TvT finals (and no, it's not better than ZvZ).
The difference is that you expect a game to actually get MORE balanced after 3 years than it was in the beginning. When you end up with this, suffice to say someone bungled at the job.
or people are just butt hurt cause taeja, who everyone(~70%) wanted to see win; now we cry imba...as LR threads usually go
To address your main point, the main reason people wanted taeja to win was to avoid the 1000th anniversary edition of a ZvZ finals in the last year of wol :D
3 ZvZ GSL finals counting this one. 5 TvT finals.
Huh? Liquipedia seems to say 3 Code S TvTs, unless the 2011 Super Tournament counts (I honestly don't remember the details of that tournament, so it may well be 4 TvTs)
Super Tournament and GSL World Championship were TvTs in addition to Mvp/Marineking, Mvp/TOP, and Mvp/MMA in regular Code S.
Yes, but the World Championship counts as a special event, surely? I mean, 16 players, invites based on tournament results/GSL rank etc.
It would be really interesting to see how the game would turn out if the zerg had to build, lets say 1 roach warren for every 10 roaches he wants to make. So when he has 10 roaches they either have to die or he has to build a second roach warren to get the next 10. The most problems in TvZ come from the fact, that Z has so much freedom to react. If pressudre is comming, hold down that R button. IF not, drone. T has to decide like 2 minutes before what he wants to do because he either needs the CC or a lot of barracks. Z can just spend like 700 minerals/400 gas and can build as much units as they want at the same time except hive units. At least i feel thats the problem..
On March 01 2013 20:08 herMan wrote: I'd just like to say that the main reason for the Terran domination in 2011 was that the game wasn't as well figured out yet. As more time passes, the bigger lead Zerg gets because it has such an advantageous race design (larvae, creep spread, single tech structures). The infestor buff was a too powerful for the role it was meant to have, leading to its subsequent nerf.
Yeah Snipe was rathe well balanced i have to say, Just to name one.
Yeah you're correct on that one. I didn't like the way it was nerfed into oblivion though. What I'm trying to say here is that in general the game wasn't so much imbalanced, people were not just playing it right yet.
And don't forget the amount of time it took them to nerf Thors/Snipe compared to Infestors.
Honestly glad I switched to watching mostly LoL because ZvZ became boring half a year ago.
Same, it is almost impossible to be disapointed by a finals in LoL since anything can happen
I want symbol to win but im not gonna watch. Not cause I hate gsl or balance or whatever, zvz is just so fucking boring after seeing 50000000 of them over the last few months.
People are gonna say whuttt u hate gsl if you dont watch but, honestly i dont want to stay up till like 2am to watch something i dont even want to see.
On March 01 2013 20:10 Savant.GL wrote: furthermore there are plenty of 2 base builds terran can do that blow heavy queen play out of the water
Really? Enlighten us then, write the full list.
Many variations of polt style pushes that involve hellions, marauders and marines
Doesn't work at all. Anything else?
I think polt has proved many times that it works just fine.
It probably doesn't work for you but that is for an entirely different reason
No, it doesn't work at all if Zerg bothers to scout and makes units. Any 1 or 2-bases timing/all-in dies to Overlord scout + Queens and whichever combination of Zerglings/Banelings/Roaches is fit. See Hack vs DRG, Icarus, RO32 or or Mvp vs sLivko, Antiga, IEM Cologne VII for a textbook refutation of your nonsense.
But yeah, being mid-GM for 5 seasons I guess I am completely clueless about my race while you hold the secret Code S Terrans don't even know; whatever.
On March 01 2013 20:18 Xpace wrote: GOM is not responsible for in-game balance and patches, but they are responsible for running the best tournaments in the world from the beginning of SC2.
NOT watching the finals because it's a ZvZ will not achieve anything; in fact it only hurts GOM's viewership count. It will not send a message to Blizzard that you're butthurt about Zerg, or you hate the match-up, or whatever reason you may have.
On the other hand, no one is forcing you to watch what you don't want to watch. I certainly am not. But I do support GOM and the GSL, it sucks that their last WoL tournament is ZvZ again.
Thus, I will be "watching" the finals, muted, on another tab, but I will be playing Crysis 3.
):
I'm sure people will watch. Just knowing it's another ZvZ makes people angry.
It's like if you're hungry for dinner, your mom comes home, and cooks the same meal for the 22nd night in a row. You're going to groan, bitch, and be mad for a bit to eat the same shit again for 22nd night, but you'll eventually get hungry, be thankful the food is on the table and eat it.
Or you go to mcdonalds League of Legends and over time you get fat and eventually you die from cardiac arrest. Thank you mom.
On March 01 2013 19:53 Jankisa wrote: That put aside, RorO was definetlly the better player here, he played amazingly, best creep spread I have seen this expansion, flawless macro and great harass.
Is this a joke?
If you have a replay or a vod for me to see where zerg spread creep this well against this good of an opponent I'd be happy to watch it.
Scarlett vs Ryung and getting it into his 3rd base (While Ryung was in the Ro4 of Code S at that same venue days later)
Come back later and try again.
Ive never seen creep spread quite as insane as Roro was on Daybreak and Cloud kingdom... but I havent seen those Scarlett' games.
This isn't the exact game but this is pretty precise on how the map looked.
I'd still like to see the vod/replay, this game was pretty tense, Taeja was trying to push back creep, also in the first game Roro had insane creep spread, but this time Taeja menaged to clean some of it up. In the game scarlett and ryung played, I can't know if Scarlett did a lot of damage early and forced Ryung to play passive and by that had free reign over the map.
I'm not trying to disrespect scarlett, but this is the GSL semifinal, and while Ryung is a great player, Scarlett has yet to translate her sick creepsread and success in general to a bigger stage. My original thought was that to me, RorO's play in general, and especially his creep spread were one of the best this expansion.
Go to 23:00
Or just look at the mini-map of the video preview, LOL.
The creep spread is pretty damn good... but it seems a bit later than what Roro was just showing, and not as comprehensive. There are bits at the 3rd, but its not full coverage. Pretty cool though!
Edit: its probably because there are about 1/4 of the tumors roro had. There was so many dots around the map it was hard to tell what was army and what was tumors hahaha.
On March 01 2013 19:59 Wertheron wrote: OOOOOOOH. Stop it terrans, you were the race the most imba during one year and a half and we had a plenty of TvT finals (and no, it's not better than ZvZ).
The difference is that you expect a game to actually get MORE balanced after 3 years than it was in the beginning. When you end up with this, suffice to say someone bungled at the job.
or people are just butt hurt cause taeja, who everyone(~70%) wanted to see win; now we cry imba...as LR threads usually go
To address your main point, the main reason people wanted taeja to win was to avoid the 1000th anniversary edition of a ZvZ finals in the last year of wol :D
3 ZvZ GSL finals counting this one. 5 TvT finals.
Huh? Liquipedia seems to say 3 Code S TvTs, unless the 2011 Super Tournament counts (I honestly don't remember the details of that tournament, so it may well be 4 TvTs)
MVP vs MKP MVP vs MKP ( world championship) MVP vs TOP MvP vs MMA polt vs MMA ( supertournament)
The thing about the GOMTvT era was while there were five of them, it was pretty much the same four Terrans dominating. If Polt had beaten TOP in the semifinals of August, then all five of those finals would have consisted of the four best Terran, without question, in WoL's lifespan.
You can't make the same case with Hyun, Sniper, Symbol, Roro, Losira, etc.
I wasn't complaining I was just listing them since there had been confusion.
Also leave Losira alone, catzerg is always relevant even if he lost his dominance long ago.
Also I miss Gom TvT so much, except endless blue flame hellion drops, that was silly.
Polt's marauder/hellion all-in almost always works. He's beaten DRG with it every single time he's used it. Only person I remember stopping it was Sniper during S5 in the Ro16.
On March 01 2013 20:10 Savant.GL wrote: furthermore there are plenty of 2 base builds terran can do that blow heavy queen play out of the water
Really? Enlighten us then, write the full list.
Many variations of polt style pushes that involve hellions, marauders and marines
Doesn't work at all. Anything else?
I think polt has proved many times that it works just fine.
It probably doesn't work for you but that is for an entirely different reason
No, it doesn't work at all if Zerg bothers to scout and makes units. Any 1 or 2-bases timing/all-in dies to Overlord scout + Queens and whichever combination of Zerglings/Banelings/Roaches is fit. See Hack vs DRG, Icarus, RO32 or or Mvp vs sLivko, Antiga, IEM Cologne VII for a textbook refutation of your nonsense.
But yeah, being mid-GM for 5 seasons I guess I am completely clueless about my race while you hold the secret Code S Terrans don't even know; whatever.
Dont bother arguing with him, look trough his posts. 60% of them is crying about how UP zerg is in HOTS and 40% is defending how OP they are in WOL
On March 01 2013 20:10 Savant.GL wrote: furthermore there are plenty of 2 base builds terran can do that blow heavy queen play out of the water
Really? Enlighten us then, write the full list.
Many variations of polt style pushes that involve hellions, marauders and marines
Doesn't work at all. Anything else?
I think polt has proved many times that it works just fine.
It probably doesn't work for you but that is for an entirely different reason
No, it doesn't work at all if Zerg bothers to scout and makes units. Any 1 or 2-bases timing/all-in dies to Overlord scout + Queens and whichever combination of Zerglings/Banelings/Roaches is fit. See Hack vs DRG, Icarus, RO32 or or Mvp vs sLivko, Antiga, IEM Cologne VII for a textbook refutation of your nonsense.
But yeah, being mid-GM for 5 seasons I guess I am completely clueless about my race while you hold the secret Code S Terrans don't even know; whatever.
You can spout bullshit all you want and tell me your ladder rank but the point is I have seen Polt pull this strategy off many times. Yes you can quote games where the build gets beaten, does that mean the build isn't viable anymore? I have seen partings immortal-sentry all in get beaten, is that no longer a viable build?
Whatever the case, ZvZ is the least played match-up out of 6 MUs in Code S so far historically. While there have been so many recently, I think a reasonable number of people can stand although not everyone.
On March 01 2013 20:18 Xpace wrote: GOM is not responsible for in-game balance and patches, but they are responsible for running the best tournaments in the world from the beginning of SC2.
NOT watching the finals because it's a ZvZ will not achieve anything; in fact it only hurts GOM's viewership count. It will not send a message to Blizzard that you're butthurt about Zerg, or you hate the match-up, or whatever reason you may have.
On the other hand, no one is forcing you to watch what you don't want to watch. I certainly am not. But I do support GOM and the GSL, it sucks that their last WoL tournament is ZvZ again.
Thus, I will be "watching" the finals, muted, on another tab, but I will be playing Crysis 3.
):
I'm sure people will watch. Just knowing it's another ZvZ makes people angry.
It's like if you're hungry for dinner, your mom comes home, and cooks the same meal for the 22nd night in a row. You're going to groan, bitch, and be mad for a bit to eat the same shit again for 22nd night, but you'll eventually get hungry, be thankful the food is on the table and eat it.
Or you go to mcdonalds League of Legends and over time you get fat and eventually you die from cardiac arrest. Thank you mom.
Fixed
hahahahahaha Oh Fionn.. you killed Taeja, but your posts have been amazing today <3
On March 01 2013 20:18 Xpace wrote: GOM is not responsible for in-game balance and patches, but they are responsible for running the best tournaments in the world from the beginning of SC2.
NOT watching the finals because it's a ZvZ will not achieve anything; in fact it only hurts GOM's viewership count. It will not send a message to Blizzard that you're butthurt about Zerg, or you hate the match-up, or whatever reason you may have.
On the other hand, no one is forcing you to watch what you don't want to watch. I certainly am not. But I do support GOM and the GSL, it sucks that their last WoL tournament is ZvZ again.
Thus, I will be "watching" the finals, muted, on another tab, but I will be playing Crysis 3.
):
I'm sure people will watch. Just knowing it's another ZvZ makes people angry.
It's like if you're hungry for dinner, your mom comes home, and cooks the same meal for the 22nd night in a row. You're going to groan, bitch, and be mad for a bit to eat the same shit again for 22nd night, but you'll eventually get hungry, be thankful the food is on the table and eat it.
Or you go to mcdonalds League of Legends and over time you get fat and eventually you die from cardiac arrest. Thank you mom.
Fixed
You know you want some of this sweet sweet fastfood e-sports. IT'S SO GOOOOOD.
On March 01 2013 19:59 Wertheron wrote: OOOOOOOH. Stop it terrans, you were the race the most imba during one year and a half and we had a plenty of TvT finals (and no, it's not better than ZvZ).
The difference is that you expect a game to actually get MORE balanced after 3 years than it was in the beginning. When you end up with this, suffice to say someone bungled at the job.
or people are just butt hurt cause taeja, who everyone(~70%) wanted to see win; now we cry imba...as LR threads usually go
To address your main point, the main reason people wanted taeja to win was to avoid the 1000th anniversary edition of a ZvZ finals in the last year of wol :D
3 ZvZ GSL finals counting this one. 5 TvT finals.
Huh? Liquipedia seems to say 3 Code S TvTs, unless the 2011 Super Tournament counts (I honestly don't remember the details of that tournament, so it may well be 4 TvTs)
MVP vs MKP MVP vs MKP ( world championship) MVP vs TOP MvP vs MMA polt vs MMA ( supertournament)
The thing about the GOMTvT era was while there were five of them, it was pretty much the same four Terrans dominating. If Polt had beaten TOP in the semifinals of August, then all five of those finals would have consisted of the four best Terran, without question, in WoL's lifespan.
You can't make the same case with Hyun, Sniper, Symbol, Roro, Losira, etc.
In the finals, sure, but take a look at the rest of those tournaments. I believe GSL October had 20 Terrans in Code S, for example. Edit: now that I've looked it up, October did indeed have 20. August had 17 and November had 19. July had 15. All of those are higher numbers than Zerg has ever hit. This season was, in fact, the only season in GSL history in which Zerg outnumbered Terran in Code S.
Unrelated: you could make a strong case for Taeja over Polt in the top 4.
On March 01 2013 20:18 Xpace wrote: GOM is not responsible for in-game balance and patches, but they are responsible for running the best tournaments in the world from the beginning of SC2.
NOT watching the finals because it's a ZvZ will not achieve anything; in fact it only hurts GOM's viewership count. It will not send a message to Blizzard that you're butthurt about Zerg, or you hate the match-up, or whatever reason you may have.
On the other hand, no one is forcing you to watch what you don't want to watch. I certainly am not. But I do support GOM and the GSL, it sucks that their last WoL tournament is ZvZ again.
Thus, I will be "watching" the finals, muted, on another tab, but I will be playing Crysis 3.
):
I'm sure people will watch. Just knowing it's another ZvZ makes people angry.
It's like if you're hungry for dinner, your mom comes home, and cooks the same meal for the 22nd night in a row. You're going to groan, bitch, and be mad for a bit to eat the same shit again for 22nd night, but you'll eventually get hungry, be thankful the food is on the table and eat it.
Or you go to mcdonalds League of Legends and over time you get fat and eventually you die from cardiac arrest. Thank you mom.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RPfIL.png)
