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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On December 19 2012 22:04 Waxangel wrote: "to receive the cheers from 3 million protoss users, I gathered all the spirit of Protoss users in my mothership" I am sure the terrans helped out too... | ||
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SHOOG
United States1639 Posts
It's a good day. | ||
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samurai80
Japan4225 Posts
On December 19 2012 22:04 Waxangel wrote: "to receive the cheers from 3 million protoss users, I gathered all the spirit of Protoss users in my mothership" Haha ! Genki Dama ! To all the terrans and the sons of Aiur, we shall give PartinG all the soul he needs !! | ||
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Inzan1ty
1163 Posts
TT couldnt see it... | ||
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yrt123
Singapore1246 Posts
On December 19 2012 23:34 Inzan1ty wrote: So, did PartinG do some Soulful timing attacks? TT couldnt see it... He evolved from soulful immortal timings to soulful mothership timings | ||
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LockeTazeline
2390 Posts
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
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Talionis
Scotland4085 Posts
On December 19 2012 22:04 Waxangel wrote: it's hard to dislike a player who names his own builds When the dishwasher takes it from an a teamer and names it himself it's pretty easy to dislike >  It's a really sick build though. Fitting name too. | ||
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Fuell
Netherlands3111 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On December 20 2012 01:15 ineversmile wrote: I don't know about you guys, but that last game without the glands just looked balanced. Not tilted one way or another, not like the game needed some other changes...just balanced. Yes, I think once BLs are out. Maybe the game is more balance without adrenal glands. However, remember that PartinG did not know this. Imagine how protoss 3 base pre BL all-ins would look without adrenal glands. If someone told PartinG that Violet wouldn't get adrenal glands that game, PartinG would have just done a 3 base all-in and won easily. It is like if you look at PvT late game, you see only a couple sentries in the army just casting guardian shield and the fights are even. You can't really just look at that and say Protoss don't need FFs. Because if protoss didn't have FF in the early mid game, the bio/medivac push would just outright win for terran. | ||
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LockeTazeline
2390 Posts
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Jmanthedragonguy
Canada1202 Posts
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On December 20 2012 01:58 vthree wrote: Yes, I think once BLs are out. Maybe the game is more balance without adrenal glands. However, remember that PartinG did not know this. Imagine how protoss 3 base pre BL all-ins would look without adrenal glands. If someone told PartinG that Violet wouldn't get adrenal glands that game, PartinG would have just done a 3 base all-in and won easily. I assume you mean pathogen glands, not adrenal--adrenal glands is the crackling upgrade.  You know, I think you might be right--Parting would have probably just done a 3base push. Maybe it would have been all-in or maybe he could take a 4th behind it. We know Parting loves his timing attacks in all match-ups, so it makes sense that he would probably do that--but it's not what happened. For whatever reason, we got to see a glimpse of a game played a bit longer without pathogen glands being researched at all, and it made a gigantic difference. The infestors were still great; fungals were still useful, but there just wasn't anywhere near as much energy as there usually is. And when new infestors came out, they didn't hatch from the 4th base with 75 energy at the forefront of a battle or from the natural/3rd base with a very short creep highway to the battle. I think that when an Infestor hatches at the zerg's main or another distant base (from the fighting), it's fine that it has 75 energy to start because it takes a long time to walk to an engagement in the middle of the map. But when the infestor pops near the fighting, that's basically the same problem as with Khaydarin Amulet and forward pylons--you have fungal growths instantly hatching from an egg right near the fight. I'm certainly not trying to argue that we should bring back the Amulet, because I think it was completely excessive and HTs only saw more and more play since the removal of that upgrade. Rather, I think we should look at this game and relate it to what happened with the Amulet: the caster was still fantastic when the upgrade was removed, but it was no longer a ridiculous situation where a bunch of casters could be reinforced to the battlefield and cast game-winning spells right off the bat; they would have to be built a few seconds earlier and charge up. And for 200 vs 200 food battles, that's an enormous difference. It is like if you look at PvT late game, you see only a couple sentries in the army just casting guardian shield and the fights are even. You can't really just look at that and say Protoss don't need FFs. Because if protoss didn't have FF in the early mid game, the bio/medivac push would just outright win for terran. I think, in order for FF to be in a discussion with Fungal Growth, there would have to be units that are immune to Fungal Growth. FFs don't work when massive units around (at least, they don't work as well). FFs don't do anything to air units. FFs don't stop people from picking up trapped units into transports and flying them away. FFs don't stop burrowed movement or blink. Granted, I'm not complaining that Fungal Growth affects anything that isn't a building--I just think that it's a higher-tier spell than FF and the two aren't a fair comparison. I think Storm is more reasonable a comparison, since it also does AoE and is about a billion times stronger when 75 energy comes stock on its caster. I don't really want to get into whether or not FF is needed in this game; that's a whole other discussion and it's really, really polarizing. I think everyone basically knows that something is a bit off about the infestor, but the unit is so complicated that it's something of a mystery. Maybe just taking out PGlands is all it needs. People kept talking about making Infested Terran cost more than 25 energy so infestors can't drop as many in a fight, right? Well, dropping the Glands upgrade means that they do, in fact, start with just 2 eggs instead of 3. That's significant. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10382 Posts
So tell me guys, is PvZ better now after the patch? or is storming IT not a good strat? | ||
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On December 20 2012 05:54 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Holy FUCK so many recommended games!!! So tell me guys, is PvZ better now after the patch? or is storming IT not a good strat? What's more important is to watch Parting play a bunch of macro PvZs. That's all I'm going to give away. | ||
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Sumahi
Guam5609 Posts
On December 19 2012 23:45 yrt123 wrote: He evolved from soulful immortal timings to soulful mothership timings Violet looked so crushed after the Entombed Valley game. I'm sure that in the game Parting was thinking, "I'm gonna make you famous Violet" everyone is gonna remember you were the one that lost to a 2 Base Mothership in a televised match. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong748 Posts
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Logo2010
509 Posts
The ghost upgrade doesn't have the huge direct damage potential of storm and fungal, I don't think anyone is saying they are over powered. This would balance the main energy units of the game IMO and lead to much better games. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On December 20 2012 09:50 Zealot Lord wrote: wow what a great series - it would be really interesting if blizzard removes pathogen glands in the beta just to test it out. because that last fight seemed pretty balanced to me personally. Not sure why everyone is saying this. It is not as simple as many people seem to think. A lot of things in game is about the 'threat/possibility' and not just the actually units/spells used. Here is a good example. Zergs lately have had great success using the roach rush or roach/bane all-in vs terran. We can't just say that the zerg ONLY need roaches/lings/banes and no T2 units. Eventhough no higher tier units were made in that game, it still affects the game. Because if the terran KNOWS the zerg will only do roach/bane attackes, he just plays safe and make bunkers and get early siege. Again, I am not saying fungal is 'balanced'. But we can't just look at the engagements of at the end of a single game and deduce that something is balance. It might be balance at the point in the game, but it doesn't mean used abilities did not affect the game. 3 base all-ins are already pretty successful. Removing the pathogen glands upgrade might make 3 base attacks too strong. We might need to buff something else to hold these attacks if we were going to remove it. Here is another example, terran rarely make bunkers late game. And if there is no early aggression, bunkers might not affect a game at all (in a direct sense). Does that mean that bunkers aren't needed and should be removed? | ||
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