On October 20 2012 18:52 FakeDeath wrote: lol at people saying Life is one-dimensional. He did more variety of plays than MVP today.
4 queen play,3hatch before pool,quick speed build,10pool.
All MVP was doing 1 rax expand into 2 stuff and did 1 CC first but still transition into the same stuff. 1: 2 Factory BF Hellions with Reactor and Tech Lab into Mech. 2: 1/1/1 into Hellions +Banshee into Mech.
People should noted that MVP never even attempted to try pure bio or standard bio/tank. No 11/11 2 rax or 12/13 rax. No quick triple orbital.
Hence the games seem boring.
lol you must never play terran.
I could say mvp played hell differently each time if you could notice his marine count/ starport timing/ banshee clock or not/ cc first or 1rax exo/ 1 gas or 2 gas.
I could also say all life did was going for speed lings and infestors and bl+ corruptors. But Saying that indicates how poorly I understand zerg. So think twice before you say anything and you'd better have knowledge before what you are trying to say.
On October 20 2012 18:40 {ToT}ColmA wrote: even terran ( or mvp fans ) have to admit that the last game had nothing to do with balance, mvp played like shit, he had an advantage and he moves out with like 80% of his army which should never be done while meching and then he lost it, reinforcing as mech is at that stage of the game close to impossible and zerg can just gain the momentum to crush u (which life did). If mvp would ve played a passive game getting his 170-200 supply timings right there would be a close to zero chance (if he doesnt screw up) to lose that game
i am pissed too that mvp lost, but blaming anyone but mvp is just retarded
Do you meant the attack where Mvp destroyed Life's 4th base while defending his own 4th base (the planetary)`?
I think Mvp thought he would be so ahead if he was 4 base against 3 base zerg even if he lost that army.
He destroy Life's 5th base. Non mining. Yes, he defended his 4th. But after that Life had a whole new roach/infestor army and MVP had half of the army he had a minute ago. It was a dumb attack.
Yes, he did lose thors. But he had to do it. Even if he didn't, he would have had 30 roaches charging into his fourth and his tank count wasn't high enough. The reason why mech is so fragile is the thor/tank balance. Mvp choose to be thor heavy and Life made him pay with the roaches. If he went tank heavy, Life could mass mutas. It is pretty much a pick your poison.
If MVP kept his army together I think that would of went a lot better for him. Key factor was he lost his hellions in the back to a fungal and a few lings so the Thors were undefended.
No doubt would have been better if he retreated to his fourth. I won't know until I watch the VOD, but I'm pretty sure that army he lost at the 4/5th of life was around the 4 tanks and 3 thor mark. I huge loss that could have repelled Life's roach force comfortably with his tank and hellion reinforcements.
Probably was, if Mvp didn't take down that fifth, Life would not have attacked. He would just have roaches to defend an d tech to broodlords. Then it comes down to the big BL/corr/infestor army vs mech/Viking.
Look, that attack didn't work out for Mvp. But it was a calculated risk, not a 'throw' as many people here seem to believe.
On October 20 2012 18:40 {ToT}ColmA wrote: even terran ( or mvp fans ) have to admit that the last game had nothing to do with balance, mvp played like shit, he had an advantage and he moves out with like 80% of his army which should never be done while meching and then he lost it, reinforcing as mech is at that stage of the game close to impossible and zerg can just gain the momentum to crush u (which life did). If mvp would ve played a passive game getting his 170-200 supply timings right there would be a close to zero chance (if he doesnt screw up) to lose that game
i am pissed too that mvp lost, but blaming anyone but mvp is just retarded
Do you meant the attack where Mvp destroyed Life's 4th base while defending his own 4th base (the planetary)`?
I think Mvp thought he would be so ahead if he was 4 base against 3 base zerg even if he lost that army.
He destroy Life's 5th base. Non mining. Yes, he defended his 4th. But after that Life had a whole new roach/infestor army and MVP had half of the army he had a minute ago. It was a dumb attack.
Yes, he did lose thors. But he had to do it. Even if he didn't, he would have had 30 roaches charging into his fourth and his tank count wasn't high enough. The reason why mech is so fragile is the thor/tank balance. Mvp choose to be thor heavy and Life made him pay with the roaches. If he went tank heavy, Life could mass mutas. It is pretty much a pick your poison.
If MVP kept his army together I think that would of went a lot better for him. Key factor was he lost his hellions in the back to a fungal and a few lings so the Thors were undefended.
No doubt would have been better if he retreated to his fourth. I won't know until I watch the VOD, but I'm pretty sure that army he lost at the 4/5th of life was around the 4 tanks and 3 thor mark. I huge loss that could have repelled Life's roach force comfortably with his tank and hellion reinforcements.
90% sure it was 5 thors.
If that's the case, that makes the decision even worse. At least with tanks in the composition you could have argued he would have been able to siege up and trade at least a little bit cost effectively against a roach/ling/infestor composition.
On October 20 2012 19:03 farnham wrote: I just realized san beat the season 3 champ and the season 4 champ in osl preliminaries
Manzenith!!
San probably should have won a GSL. He got unlucky that he faced MC at this strongest, and then he had to face Mvp in the World Championship semifinals. He was the 2nd best player in two seasons.
On October 20 2012 18:52 FakeDeath wrote: lol at people saying Life is one-dimensional. He did more variety of plays than MVP today.
4 queen play,3hatch before pool,quick speed build,10pool.
All MVP was doing 1 rax expand into 2 stuff and did 1 CC first but still transition into the same stuff. 1: 2 Factory BF Hellions with Reactor and Tech Lab into Mech. 2: 1/1/1 into Hellions +Banshee into Mech.
People should noted that MVP never even attempted to try pure bio or standard bio/tank. No 11/11 2 rax or 12/13 rax. No quick triple orbital.
Hence the games seem boring.
lol you must never play terran.
I could say mvp played hell differently each time if you could notice his marine count/ starport timing/ banshee clock or not/ cc first or 1rax exo/ 1 gas or 2 gas.
I could also say all life did was going for speed lings and infestors and bl+ corruptors. But Saying that indicates how poorly I understand zerg. So think twice before you say anything and you'd better have knowledge before what you are trying to say.
I do played Terran.
Like i said,MVP didn't bring any new build timing that will changed meta-game.
After set 5, MVP got predictable.
Never understand why he did not attempt to try pure bio or marine/tank.
MKP did take down Life in one game using pure-bio.
Really want to thank the translator on stream for doing the awards ceremony at the end...clutch. Such a well done finals...really effin' sick. KOE REE UH!
On October 20 2012 18:52 FakeDeath wrote: lol at people saying Life is one-dimensional. He did more variety of plays than MVP today.
4 queen play,3hatch before pool,quick speed build,10pool.
All MVP was doing 1 rax expand into 2 stuff and did 1 CC first but still transition into the same stuff. 1: 2 Factory BF Hellions with Reactor and Tech Lab into Mech. 2: 1/1/1 into Hellions +Banshee into Mech.
People should noted that MVP never even attempted to try pure bio or standard bio/tank. No 11/11 2 rax or 12/13 rax. No quick triple orbital.
Hence the games seem boring.
lol you must never play terran.
I could say mvp played hell differently each time if you could notice his marine count/ starport timing/ banshee clock or not/ cc first or 1rax exo/ 1 gas or 2 gas.
I could also say all life did was going for speed lings and infestors and bl+ corruptors. But Saying that indicates how poorly I understand zerg. So think twice before you say anything and you'd better have knowledge before what you are trying to say.
I do played Terran.
Like i said,MVP didn't bring any new build timing that will changed meta-game.
After set 5, MVP got predictable.
Never understand why he did not attempt to try pure bio or marine/tank.
MKP did take down Life in one game using pure-bio.
Then you should know that eventhough terran has the most diverse openings, their mid/late game is pretty standard. Bio, bio tank, mech.
So Mvp is 3-3 with mech and MKP is 1-3 with bio... Which would you chose?
On October 20 2012 18:52 FakeDeath wrote: lol at people saying Life is one-dimensional. He did more variety of plays than MVP today.
4 queen play,3hatch before pool,quick speed build,10pool.
All MVP was doing 1 rax expand into 2 stuff and did 1 CC first but still transition into the same stuff. 1: 2 Factory BF Hellions with Reactor and Tech Lab into Mech. 2: 1/1/1 into Hellions +Banshee into Mech.
People should noted that MVP never even attempted to try pure bio or standard bio/tank. No 11/11 2 rax or 12/13 rax. No quick triple orbital.
Hence the games seem boring.
lol you must never play terran.
I could say mvp played hell differently each time if you could notice his marine count/ starport timing/ banshee clock or not/ cc first or 1rax exo/ 1 gas or 2 gas.
I could also say all life did was going for speed lings and infestors and bl+ corruptors. But Saying that indicates how poorly I understand zerg. So think twice before you say anything and you'd better have knowledge before what you are trying to say.
I do played Terran.
Like i said,MVP didn't bring any new build timing that will changed meta-game.
After set 5, MVP got predictable.
Never understand why he did not attempt to try pure bio or marine/tank.
MKP did take down Life in one game using pure-bio.
I suppose life would have been more than comfortable with playing against bio/bio-tank. He struggled quite a bit with the blue flame hellions in the beginning so imo it wasnt a bad decision to stick with. Also as pointed out mvp did vary his build. In the last game Life just kept his cool and mvp made on wrong decision. Shit happens
On October 20 2012 18:52 FakeDeath wrote: lol at people saying Life is one-dimensional. He did more variety of plays than MVP today.
4 queen play,3hatch before pool,quick speed build,10pool.
All MVP was doing 1 rax expand into 2 stuff and did 1 CC first but still transition into the same stuff. 1: 2 Factory BF Hellions with Reactor and Tech Lab into Mech. 2: 1/1/1 into Hellions +Banshee into Mech.
People should noted that MVP never even attempted to try pure bio or standard bio/tank. No 11/11 2 rax or 12/13 rax. No quick triple orbital.
Hence the games seem boring.
lol you must never play terran.
I could say mvp played hell differently each time if you could notice his marine count/ starport timing/ banshee clock or not/ cc first or 1rax exo/ 1 gas or 2 gas.
I could also say all life did was going for speed lings and infestors and bl+ corruptors. But Saying that indicates how poorly I understand zerg. So think twice before you say anything and you'd better have knowledge before what you are trying to say.
I do played Terran.
Like i said,MVP didn't bring any new build timing that will changed meta-game.
After set 5, MVP got predictable.
Never understand why he did not attempt to try pure bio or marine/tank.
MKP did take down Life in one game using pure-bio.
Then you should know that eventhough terran has the most diverse openings, their mid/late game is pretty standard. Bio, bio tank, mech.
So Mvp is 3-3 with mech and MKP is 1-3 with bio... Which would you chose?
This is not the MVP i am used to seeing.
He is the player that changed meta-game with his builds and shown the most diverse of builds But today he was playing mech in all 7 GAMES.
Maybe he was smashing his teammates in practice using mech. But i feel MVP should have mixed up his play.
Sticking to mech for the whole series give Life the memo on how to deal with it in the end.
On October 20 2012 18:59 Incomplet wrote: In all honesty, as of right now, Life is the better performing zerg to Stephano. Life's ZvZ is absurdly good with a 75% win rate compared to it being Stephano's worst match up. Life's ZvT has been proven very worthwhile taking down MKP, Taeja & now MVP, with 2 of those Terrans thoroughly destroying Stephano not too long ago and MVP would be the clear favorite if he were to take him on too. The only contested match up is ZvP which is clearly Stephano's best match up, however with Life taking out Seed rather convincingly this season, even this match up is debatable.
Stephano is 2:2 against Taeja atm and Taeja never destroyed him at DH, those games were really close freaking close. Don't know what mkp-game you are talking about. But yeah life's zvt is SICK I agree, don't mind it being considered stronger than Stephano's.
But how is zvp even "debatable" between these 2? Winning one bo3 against Seed doesn't mean too much man. After all he lost against creator in the TSL finals and against San in the OSL-Quali...no disrespect to san, but come on. Stephano has been dominant in this matchup, Life is not even close to that.
No idea about zvz, Life has good stats here but if you look at the players he beat, they are not really impressive.
On October 20 2012 18:40 {ToT}ColmA wrote: even terran ( or mvp fans ) have to admit that the last game had nothing to do with balance, mvp played like shit, he had an advantage and he moves out with like 80% of his army which should never be done while meching and then he lost it, reinforcing as mech is at that stage of the game close to impossible and zerg can just gain the momentum to crush u (which life did). If mvp would ve played a passive game getting his 170-200 supply timings right there would be a close to zero chance (if he doesnt screw up) to lose that game
i am pissed too that mvp lost, but blaming anyone but mvp is just retarded
Do you meant the attack where Mvp destroyed Life's 4th base while defending his own 4th base (the planetary)`?
I think Mvp thought he would be so ahead if he was 4 base against 3 base zerg even if he lost that army.
He destroy Life's 5th base. Non mining. Yes, he defended his 4th. But after that Life had a whole new roach/infestor army and MVP had half of the army he had a minute ago. It was a dumb attack.
Yes, he did lose thors. But he had to do it. Even if he didn't, he would have had 30 roaches charging into his fourth and his tank count wasn't high enough. The reason why mech is so fragile is the thor/tank balance. Mvp choose to be thor heavy and Life made him pay with the roaches. If he went tank heavy, Life could mass mutas. It is pretty much a pick your poison.
If MVP kept his army together I think that would of went a lot better for him. Key factor was he lost his hellions in the back to a fungal and a few lings so the Thors were undefended.
No doubt would have been better if he retreated to his fourth. I won't know until I watch the VOD, but I'm pretty sure that army he lost at the 4/5th of life was around the 4 tanks and 3 thor mark. I huge loss that could have repelled Life's roach force comfortably with his tank and hellion reinforcements.
Probably was, if Mvp didn't take down that fifth, Life would not have attacked. He would just have roaches to defend an d tech to broodlords. Then it comes down to the big BL/corr/infestor army vs mech/Viking.
Look, that attack didn't work out for Mvp. But it was a calculated risk, not a 'throw' as many people here seem to believe.
The thing is, roaches can't defend cost effectively against a well positioned mech ball. That's the entire basis of the strategy, akin to a protoss player pushing at 15 minutes off of 3 bases. It's designed to be an unstoppable push before broods. If he pulls back, he can still make that giant mech push regardless of Life's production as it shouldn't matter.
Everything in SC2 is a calculated risk, and that single risk cost him the game unfortunately.
Not trying to fight, just enjoy talking strategy :p
EPT
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