On October 09 2012 21:25 xN.07)MaK wrote: And people ask why Last cheesed the first games. After 12min, you are facing storm and collosus, and there is no good counter to that
viking-ghost?
"oh hey I see you have templar at 12 minutes. I'm not gonna make ghosts though, ima keep making tanks for the next 10 minutes."
-Last
teching to ghosts would take too long, I think that's the only way to play vs a competent protoss that knows how to harass, kill him before he is able to, I think he should've gotten better upgrades though.
No.
Getting Ghosts is easier than getting Templar. If your opponent has Templar, and you have scouted it and failed to make a single ghost for 10 minutes, you deserve to lose. Sorry Last Fans. The guy is playing bad, QQ somewhere else
No. Ghosts have very limited use and are actually support units unlike templars and infestors that can kill entire armies by themselves.Ghosts are also so expensive for what they do that they cut into your army supply heavily if you don't have 3-4 well established bases.
That's not really true. In large numbers and good upgrades Ghosts can eliminate entire Protoss armies themselves. They are incredibly good at killing Zealots and can hold their own vs Stalkers with Medivac support. Archons? Lol, EMP takes care of them.
The only thing that Ghosts cant deal with are Collosus which is why I've seen a lot of pros in the ultra late game vs Protoss create a massive Ghost army supported by a large number of Vikings. It's a surprisingly powerful unit composition.
ghosts melt to chargelots if there is obs. That is what makes using ghosts so tough. You can retreat and save your HTs. Ghosts are in front and the first ones to die.
On October 09 2012 21:25 xN.07)MaK wrote: And people ask why Last cheesed the first games. After 12min, you are facing storm and collosus, and there is no good counter to that
viking-ghost?
Have you tried ? Again a good player, you see Taeja getting away with it. Not many others...
It's doable, Last is just doing these gimmicky builds because he obviously thinks he cannot match Rain in a standard macro game and need some sort of BO adv to carry him through... Don't take these games as examples of proper lategame PvT, imo these games are just Last trying to win via build orders and if he succeeds he wins, if not, he auto-loses lol.
I'm not. I know it's doable. By Taeja standards it is. By good terrans versus decent protoss standards it is. But I've barely seen good terrans win again a good protoss in the lategame without getting an advantage in the midgame thanks to timing pushes or good harass... (I think MKP early 2012 actually, and he was very very strong back then). It's very very hard !
That's why you've seen Mvp trying mass BC against Squirtle (proving that BCs skyterran didn't work well), and other terrans trying to bring back 1/1/1 (ByuN I think ?)
Mvp only lost because he missed the EMP on the mothership. Without that Vortex Squirtles army would have gotten completely destroyed.
On October 09 2012 21:32 Bahajinbo wrote: Getting Ghosts is easier than getting Templar. Everything said here.
The real point is : Getting ghosts is way less powerfull than getting Templar.
Btw nothing new here, tanks became just awful vs protoss once toss get chargelots and some AoE (tanks => lots of marines).
but getting ghosts makes your bio army exponentially better, IF you land snipes and EMP's on the army you take away all the splash and reduce the protoss armiies HP by a huge percent
On October 09 2012 21:25 xN.07)MaK wrote: And people ask why Last cheesed the first games. After 12min, you are facing storm and collosus, and there is no good counter to that
viking-ghost?
"oh hey I see you have templar at 12 minutes. I'm not gonna make ghosts though, ima keep making tanks for the next 10 minutes."
-Last
teching to ghosts would take too long, I think that's the only way to play vs a competent protoss that knows how to harass, kill him before he is able to, I think he should've gotten better upgrades though.
No.
Getting Ghosts is easier than getting Templar. If your opponent has Templar, and you have scouted it and failed to make a single ghost for 10 minutes, you deserve to lose. Sorry Last Fans. The guy is playing bad, QQ somewhere else
No. Ghosts have very limited use and are actually support units unlike templars and infestors that can kill entire armies by themselves.Ghosts are also so expensive for what they do that they cut into your army supply heavily if you don't have 3-4 well established bases.
That's not really true. In large numbers and good upgrades Ghosts can eliminate entire Protoss armies themselves. They are incredibly good at killing Zealots and can hold their own vs Stalkers with Medivac support. Archons? Lol, EMP takes care of them.
The only thing that Ghosts cant deal with are Collosus which is why I've seen a lot of pros in the ultra late game vs Protoss create a massive Ghost army supported by a large number of Vikings. It's a surprisingly powerful unit composition.
Please, read again what I wrote, you are basically saying nothing to contradict it.Ghosts are good support units when you have a very nice econ, to put into perspective, no terran rushes ghost tech and feels good when they are ready to work (hint hint), because they don't do anything by themselves, and in the early game, getting ghosts means that they are by themselves as you have no army.