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On August 20 2012 07:35 Project Psycho wrote:
Anyone else feel like Djwheat and Apollo are a bad duo together? These games are fucking epic and they are not giving it the hype it deserves, that last game was one of the best come backs i have ever seen and they just rushed over it like it was nothing.
Damn, you mustnt have seen a lot of games then. It was just another unbeatable BL+corru composition.
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On August 20 2012 07:35 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:34 Solarist wrote:On August 20 2012 07:32 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is a game demonstrating more of KeeN's late game TvZ failures, rather than JR's skill at ZvT. Rather this is a game showing the retardation of BL/Infestor. Park you infestors under the broods and gratz you got an practically unbeatable army, unless you move command the shit over 100 stimmed marines. What Keen did was wrong imo with the ghost marine but still. They are called GGlords for a reason IMMVP just spent an entire IEM showing us how to deal with it, it can be stopped but marines and nukes is not it.
Get real, he spend and entire IEM playing on metropolis. The only map where you can reliably turtle to Ravens, sorry but that rarely works on maps other than Atlantis Spaceship / Metropolis
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On August 20 2012 07:36 ROOTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:35 Fusilero wrote:On August 20 2012 07:34 Solarist wrote:On August 20 2012 07:32 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is a game demonstrating more of KeeN's late game TvZ failures, rather than JR's skill at ZvT. Rather this is a game showing the retardation of BL/Infestor. Park you infestors under the broods and gratz you got an practically unbeatable army, unless you move command the shit over 100 stimmed marines. What Keen did was wrong imo with the ghost marine but still. They are called GGlords for a reason IMMVP just spent an entire IEM showing us how to deal with it, it can be stopped but marines and nukes is not it. yup and if ur not 10x better than ur opponent like mvp is then ur fucked, pretty simple
Now now Tex mex 8)
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On August 20 2012 07:35 Big-t wrote:
That game was so silly...
Keen played 10000000000000000% better, he only had some ghost micro problems. But hey Jonny made the game deciding/(winning) decision to go for BL/infestor =(
Keen made only marines
Only marines against bl infestor corruptor
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On August 20 2012 07:35 Big-t wrote:
That game was so silly...
Keen played 10000000000000000% better, he only had some ghost micro problems. But hey Jonny made the game deciding/(winning) decision to go for BL/infestor =(
"Some ghost micro problems" being running half a dozen ghosts into a wall of broodlords?
Also that wasn't his "only" problem. His major problem was not making Vikings or Ravens or anything that actually counters the army JRecco had.
Again, do you honestly want it to be possible to beat that Zerg T3 composition with nothing but Marines, what the fuck sort of balance is that?
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Come on Jonnnnnny!!! I will be so happy if you make this. Guaranteed 2 more matches and double the money and maybe a top 3 qualifier for TSL5. You can do it! One of the biggest games of his life
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On August 20 2012 07:36 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:35 Big-t wrote:
That game was so silly...
Keen played 10000000000000000% better, he only had some ghost micro problems. But hey Jonny made the game deciding/(winning) decision to go for BL/infestor =( you have no clue what you're talking about. Making the wrong army composition to an army that you knew about for 10 minutes is NOT how you play good.
wat could he have done in that situation? he tried to play a mobile style and abuse z's lack of mobility. had he gone thor viking after all that harass he still would have gotten shat on by recco's 20 corruptors 15 broodlords w/ infestor support
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On August 20 2012 07:36 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:35 Big-t wrote:
That game was so silly...
Keen played 10000000000000000% better, he only had some ghost micro problems. But hey Jonny made the game deciding/(winning) decision to go for BL/infestor =( you have no clue what you're talking about. Making the wrong army composition to an army that you knew about for 10 minutes is NOT how you play good.
Why wrong army? There was no way to win with vikings..
Let people try new styles and don´t be so conservative.
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On August 20 2012 07:35 Korelle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:32 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:On August 20 2012 07:30 Bagi wrote:
I do love seeing mediocre EU zergs beat top KR terrans.
Don't you? I don't care how top a top Korean apparently is. When he plays like this, WHERE IS THE EFFING PROBLEM? Apparently some of the Terran posters here think you should be able to beat infestor/broodlord/corruptor with nothing but Marines. I do shudder to think what SC2 would look like if it was balanced according to their deranged wishes.
I shudder at it right now, where zerg can largely a-move with their late-game compositions and only 5 terrans in the world are able to deal with them doing it.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 20 2012 07:35 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:34 Solarist wrote:On August 20 2012 07:32 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is a game demonstrating more of KeeN's late game TvZ failures, rather than JR's skill at ZvT. Rather this is a game showing the retardation of BL/Infestor. Park you infestors under the broods and gratz you got an practically unbeatable army, unless you move command the shit over 100 stimmed marines. What Keen did was wrong imo with the ghost marine but still. They are called GGlords for a reason IMMVP just spent an entire IEM showing us how to deal with it, it can be stopped but marines and nukes is not it.
To be fair, neither Vortix nor Nerchio really used the super-composition of infestor/ corruptor/ broodlord that frequently (in the proper proportions), nor did they use it in a way that corruptors could take out the ravens. Most of the time, when Mvp used his ravens and their HSMs, he had free shots on the broodlords because there was a severe lack of support for those units.
Granted, Mvp had a lot of success with those ravens in the main attacks (and, of course, his multi-pronged harrasses did a tremendous amount of damage too, as Zerg late game becomes relatively immobile), but a lot of the time, the ravens ran right up to clumped broodlords (or open ultralisks) and just obliterated half the undefended Zerg army. If only Vortix or Nerchio had used each important element of the Zerg super-composition to aid each other, I think it would have been a lot tougher for Mvp.
Most of the time, there were zero corruptors or infestors for support. That's not the way to go.
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On August 20 2012 07:35 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:33 Shikyo wrote:On August 20 2012 07:30 Bagi wrote:
I do love seeing mediocre EU zergs beat top KR terrans.
Don't you? Currently... Third-best foreigner Zerg. What about Vortix, Slivko, Sortof?
no, no, maybe
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On August 20 2012 07:37 Korelle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:35 Big-t wrote:
That game was so silly...
Keen played 10000000000000000% better, he only had some ghost micro problems. But hey Jonny made the game deciding/(winning) decision to go for BL/infestor =( "Some ghost micro problems" being running half a dozen ghosts into a wall of broodlords? Also that wasn't his "only" problem. His major problem was not making Vikings or Ravens or anything that actually counters the army JRecco had. Again, do you honestly want it to be possible to beat that Zerg T3 composition with nothing but Marines, what the fuck sort of balance is that?
Making Vikings against that many corrupters with infestor support? Really?
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On August 20 2012 07:37 Solarist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:35 Fusilero wrote:On August 20 2012 07:34 Solarist wrote:On August 20 2012 07:32 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is a game demonstrating more of KeeN's late game TvZ failures, rather than JR's skill at ZvT. Rather this is a game showing the retardation of BL/Infestor. Park you infestors under the broods and gratz you got an practically unbeatable army, unless you move command the shit over 100 stimmed marines. What Keen did was wrong imo with the ghost marine but still. They are called GGlords for a reason IMMVP just spent an entire IEM showing us how to deal with it, it can be stopped but marines and nukes is not it. Get real, he spend and entire IEM playing on metropolis. The only map where you can reliably turtle to Ravens, sorry but that rarely works on maps other than Atlantis Spaceship / Metropolis
Yea because he clearly couldnt invest in ravens instead of wasting all his ressources on ghosts and nukes for 10minutes.
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its not keen playing. last game is not 11-11.
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On August 20 2012 07:37 Solarist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:35 Fusilero wrote:On August 20 2012 07:34 Solarist wrote:On August 20 2012 07:32 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is a game demonstrating more of KeeN's late game TvZ failures, rather than JR's skill at ZvT. Rather this is a game showing the retardation of BL/Infestor. Park you infestors under the broods and gratz you got an practically unbeatable army, unless you move command the shit over 100 stimmed marines. What Keen did was wrong imo with the ghost marine but still. They are called GGlords for a reason IMMVP just spent an entire IEM showing us how to deal with it, it can be stopped but marines and nukes is not it. Get real, he spend and entire IEM playing on metropolis. The only map where you can reliably turtle to Ravens, sorry but that rarely works on maps other than Atlantis Spaceship / Metropolis
he won a bunch of games with mechanical builds on smaller maps too
and he didn't even turtle into ravens in the semis and finals he just teched to ravens at a decent pace so they were out in time
atlantis vs nerchio was a good example of this, bio opening and he had 5 ravens with seeker missile for the last fight
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On August 20 2012 07:37 below66 wrote:
lol at this new age of newfags crying 'patch zerg' as if the patch handed them +30 attack on all units. /get over yourself's
It's not a cry, it's a just a funny name for a bunch of zergs that started doing well after the patch :D
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On August 20 2012 07:38 ROOTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:36 nkr wrote:On August 20 2012 07:35 Big-t wrote:
That game was so silly...
Keen played 10000000000000000% better, he only had some ghost micro problems. But hey Jonny made the game deciding/(winning) decision to go for BL/infestor =( you have no clue what you're talking about. Making the wrong army composition to an army that you knew about for 10 minutes is NOT how you play good. wat could he have done in that situation? he tried to play a mobile style and abuse z's lack of mobility. had he gone thor viking after all that harass he still would have gotten shat on by recco's 20 corruptors 15 broodlords w/ infestor support
Didnt you hear brah? He should just get ravens, never mind they take an hour to get out. The answer to all of Terrans problems is ravens (according to everybody who doesent play terran)
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On August 20 2012 07:37 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:35 Gojira621 wrote:
I don't get why every time non-koreans start beating koreans that so many of the community have to come up with excuses why that non korean sucks or got lucky or is trash or the korean was jetlag, why can't you just accept results as results and give praise where its due. A win is a fucking win. I don't get the obsession with never being allowed to think non koreans can take out the koreans on a consistent basis. Are they paying you to say this stuff or something? Btw this coming from a huge fan of GSL and lots of korean players On the contrary, Keen just has a subpar late game. It would not matter if he was from Korea or Baghdad, a subpar late game is a subpar late game.
this is absolutely the kind of discussion that ideally would be going on about this game. Having just marines/medivac/ghost vs infestor/brood/corruptor is not a very good army lategame
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On August 20 2012 07:37 Solarist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:35 Fusilero wrote:On August 20 2012 07:34 Solarist wrote:On August 20 2012 07:32 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is a game demonstrating more of KeeN's late game TvZ failures, rather than JR's skill at ZvT. Rather this is a game showing the retardation of BL/Infestor. Park you infestors under the broods and gratz you got an practically unbeatable army, unless you move command the shit over 100 stimmed marines. What Keen did was wrong imo with the ghost marine but still. They are called GGlords for a reason IMMVP just spent an entire IEM showing us how to deal with it, it can be stopped but marines and nukes is not it. Get real, he spend and entire IEM playing on metropolis. The only map where you can reliably turtle to Ravens, sorry but that rarely works on maps other than Atlantis Spaceship / Metropolis
Keen had a massive chance to transition, multiple times but he went full fucking retard and stuck to mass marines and nukes instead. I'd bet that byun, taeja, MVP or ryung could have won in that position.
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Keen had an army worth around half of what Jricco had. He shouldn't be able to beat it straight up with what he put together. Keen should have gone for a basetrade, where he could have used the mobility of his units.
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EPT
