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On August 20 2012 07:37 below66 wrote:
lol at this new age of newfags crying 'patch zerg' as if the patch handed them +30 attack on all units. /get over yourself's
Even if the queens in themselves don't do anything in a game, the fact they are so strong makes zerg able to cut more corners and terran has to be greedier, which also makes you a lot weaker to allins. Basically since queen buff takes effect so early in the game, the change echoes all through the game. The buff is pretty damn huge. In this matter though, you can argue that Keen played pretty terrible lategame while outplaying Jrecco badly midgame, so who should've won?
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On August 20 2012 07:39 Solarist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:38 ROOTT1 wrote:On August 20 2012 07:36 nkr wrote:On August 20 2012 07:35 Big-t wrote:
That game was so silly...
Keen played 10000000000000000% better, he only had some ghost micro problems. But hey Jonny made the game deciding/(winning) decision to go for BL/infestor =( you have no clue what you're talking about. Making the wrong army composition to an army that you knew about for 10 minutes is NOT how you play good. wat could he have done in that situation? he tried to play a mobile style and abuse z's lack of mobility. had he gone thor viking after all that harass he still would have gotten shat on by recco's 20 corruptors 15 broodlords w/ infestor support Didnt you hear brah? He should just get ravens, never mind they take an hour to get out. The answer to all of Terrans problems is ravens (according to everybody who doesent play terran)
sure ravens solve everything,
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Keen did the right thing...you can't go toe to toe with BL/Infestor...so you need to run around them and snipe bases. Then if BL/Infestors go in for the kill you base race. Keen didn't base race at the end...and that's why he lost. Easy to base race BL/Infestor because they are so slow and they take up so much supply from a ground army.
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On August 20 2012 07:39 Yagami wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:37 below66 wrote:
lol at this new age of newfags crying 'patch zerg' as if the patch handed them +30 attack on all units. /get over yourself's It's not a cry, it's a just a funny name for a bunch of zergs that started doing well after the patch :D
Honestly, its pretty insulting to those players.
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United States15275 Posts
On August 20 2012 07:39 Gojira621 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:37 CosmicSpiral wrote:On August 20 2012 07:35 Gojira621 wrote:
I don't get why every time non-koreans start beating koreans that so many of the community have to come up with excuses why that non korean sucks or got lucky or is trash or the korean was jetlag, why can't you just accept results as results and give praise where its due. A win is a fucking win. I don't get the obsession with never being allowed to think non koreans can take out the koreans on a consistent basis. Are they paying you to say this stuff or something? Btw this coming from a huge fan of GSL and lots of korean players On the contrary, Keen just has a subpar late game. It would not matter if he was from Korea or Baghdad, a subpar late game is a subpar late game. this is absolutely the kind of discussion that ideally would be going on about this game. Having just marines/medivac/ghost vs infestor/brood/corruptor is not a very good army lategame
I haven't seen any discussion suggesting otherwise. People aren't going full racist in this thread. They're complaining about Keen throwing away big advantages or complaining about perceived "race imbalances".
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On August 20 2012 07:41 Fungal Growth wrote:
Keen did the right thing...you can't go toe to toe with BL/Infestor...so you need to run around them and snipe bases. Then if BL/Infestors go in for the kill you base race. Keen didn't base race at the end...and that's why he lost. Easy to base race BL/Infestor because they are so slow and they take up so much supply from a ground army.
base race is really hard againts zerg, who got 3k mineral bank and like 60 drone.
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On August 20 2012 07:39 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:37 Solarist wrote:On August 20 2012 07:35 Fusilero wrote:On August 20 2012 07:34 Solarist wrote:On August 20 2012 07:32 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is a game demonstrating more of KeeN's late game TvZ failures, rather than JR's skill at ZvT. Rather this is a game showing the retardation of BL/Infestor. Park you infestors under the broods and gratz you got an practically unbeatable army, unless you move command the shit over 100 stimmed marines. What Keen did was wrong imo with the ghost marine but still. They are called GGlords for a reason IMMVP just spent an entire IEM showing us how to deal with it, it can be stopped but marines and nukes is not it. Get real, he spend and entire IEM playing on metropolis. The only map where you can reliably turtle to Ravens, sorry but that rarely works on maps other than Atlantis Spaceship / Metropolis Yea because he clearly couldnt invest in ravens instead of wasting all his ressources on ghosts and nukes for 10minutes.
Yes, how dare he use something that would help against infestors and blords instead of just praying that JR didn't attack long enough for him to research seeker, energy upgrade, get like 10-12 ravens with enough energy, AND miss ALL of the fungals before HSM got cast....
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On August 20 2012 07:41 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:41 Fungal Growth wrote:
Keen did the right thing...you can't go toe to toe with BL/Infestor...so you need to run around them and snipe bases. Then if BL/Infestors go in for the kill you base race. Keen didn't base race at the end...and that's why he lost. Easy to base race BL/Infestor because they are so slow and they take up so much supply from a ground army. base race is really hard againts zerg, who got 3k mineral bank and like 60 drone.
Not as hard against terran where they can float almost all their buildings 
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United States15275 Posts
On August 20 2012 07:41 Fungal Growth wrote:
Keen did the right thing...you can't go toe to toe with BL/Infestor...so you need to run around them and snipe bases. Then if BL/Infestors go in for the kill you base race. Keen didn't base race at the end...and that's why he lost. Easy to base race BL/Infestor because they are so slow and they take up so much supply from a ground army.
Watch Ryung vs Dongraegu on Whirlwind. That is what Keen was supposed to do.
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United Kingdom3249 Posts
On August 20 2012 07:39 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:37 Solarist wrote:On August 20 2012 07:35 Fusilero wrote:On August 20 2012 07:34 Solarist wrote:On August 20 2012 07:32 PhoenixVoid wrote:
This is a game demonstrating more of KeeN's late game TvZ failures, rather than JR's skill at ZvT. Rather this is a game showing the retardation of BL/Infestor. Park you infestors under the broods and gratz you got an practically unbeatable army, unless you move command the shit over 100 stimmed marines. What Keen did was wrong imo with the ghost marine but still. They are called GGlords for a reason IMMVP just spent an entire IEM showing us how to deal with it, it can be stopped but marines and nukes is not it. Get real, he spend and entire IEM playing on metropolis. The only map where you can reliably turtle to Ravens, sorry but that rarely works on maps other than Atlantis Spaceship / Metropolis he won a bunch of games with mechanical builds on smaller maps too and he didn't even turtle into ravens in the semis and finals he just teched to ravens at a decent pace so they were out in time atlantis vs nerchio was a good example of this, bio opening and he had 5 ravens with seeker missile for the last fight
Mvp's transitions were also more granular than the usual Terran bio or mech into Sky Terran that we usually see when we end up in super late game or split map positions. He interspersed Ravens into his production whenever he re-maxed after harass or trading instead of setting up for a huge switch.
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On August 20 2012 07:42 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:41 Breach_hu wrote:On August 20 2012 07:41 Fungal Growth wrote:
Keen did the right thing...you can't go toe to toe with BL/Infestor...so you need to run around them and snipe bases. Then if BL/Infestors go in for the kill you base race. Keen didn't base race at the end...and that's why he lost. Easy to base race BL/Infestor because they are so slow and they take up so much supply from a ground army. base race is really hard againts zerg, who got 3k mineral bank and like 60 drone. Not as hard against terran where they can float almost all their buildings
Yeah, if only the zerg superarmy had a unit that was a flying anti-air kind of thing.
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I have never been this nervous watching any kind of Sport.
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
Well, Keen is pretty fucked with this build again I think
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this 2fact BFH build. look at that. roaches hardcounter them. mvp was succesful with it on IEM, cuz all of the zerg went for only ling :/
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On August 20 2012 07:37 Korelle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:35 Big-t wrote:
That game was so silly...
Keen played 10000000000000000% better, he only had some ghost micro problems. But hey Jonny made the game deciding/(winning) decision to go for BL/infestor =( "Some ghost micro problems" being running half a dozen ghosts into a wall of broodlords? Also that wasn't his "only" problem. His major problem was not making Vikings or Ravens or anything that actually counters the army JRecco had. Again, do you honestly want it to be possible to beat that Zerg T3 composition with nothing but Marines, what the fuck sort of balance is that?
it got to a point where making vikings would get wrecked by the corruptors already out and the fungals
even if he was able to take out the corruptors and BLs with making vikings, it would have taken a lot of vikings to do so and a transition to ground units by zerg would have been hard to deal with.
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bad build choice IMO from Keen, last time his hellions did nothing and he lost the map pretty onesided
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Wait he did the same build same map as first game? What -_-.
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On August 20 2012 07:43 Asha` wrote:
Well, Keen is pretty fucked with this build again I think
Yep, unless he suddenly pulls some Mvpesque moves he's dead.
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
On August 20 2012 07:43 blade55555 wrote:
Wait he did the same build same map as first game? What -_-.
Trying to call his bluff.
He denied the overlord this time.
But Jrecco just did the exact same build too
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On August 20 2012 07:43 Hypemeup wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:42 blade55555 wrote:On August 20 2012 07:41 Breach_hu wrote:On August 20 2012 07:41 Fungal Growth wrote:
Keen did the right thing...you can't go toe to toe with BL/Infestor...so you need to run around them and snipe bases. Then if BL/Infestors go in for the kill you base race. Keen didn't base race at the end...and that's why he lost. Easy to base race BL/Infestor because they are so slow and they take up so much supply from a ground army. base race is really hard againts zerg, who got 3k mineral bank and like 60 drone. Not as hard against terran where they can float almost all their buildings Yeah, if only the zerg superarmy had a unit that was a flying anti-air kind of thing.
Yeah because your 8 corruptors will take down an armada of flying buildings before they reach the terran army 
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EPT
