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[WCS KR] LR2 D1 - Page 107

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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silent_owl
Profile Joined March 2011
Philippines3098 Posts
August 16 2012 13:49 GMT
#2121
I know Soulkey is playing tomorrow. Can't watch the games though.
"If you know your enemy and yourself, you need not fear the results of a hundred battles." - Sun Tzu
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
August 16 2012 13:51 GMT
#2122
On August 16 2012 22:46 BlazeFury01 wrote:
So who all is playing tomorrow? Can somebody please link me? I am eager to kn
ow =P

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339146&currentpage=5#95

Leenock is playing tomorrow~ Dwbouttherest.

Hero v Soulkey should be good though. I just don't have a care either way for them.
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
redemption
Profile Joined February 2006
United States112 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 13:54:00
August 16 2012 13:53 GMT
#2123
Although I can sort of understand people saying that the kespa players' wins "don't count" because the gom players didn't play their best due to their nerves and intimidation factor, people have to realize that nerves and intimidation due to an opponent's reputation is actually a part of ANY competition.

If you normally play really well, but a certain opponent consistently makes you nervous, your losses to that opponent still count! It's a part of the game. I'm pretty sure that during Federer's complete dominance in the tennis world, part of the reason that he had such an insane record was the invincibility factor that people felt even before starting the first point of the match. They knew he was a beast, and it made them crumble under pressure. Nowadays, even though Federer is still quite good, he can be beaten much more easily. Sure, he's gotten older, but I think part of the reason is also that he lost some of that intimidation factor that naturally made people play worse against him.

In the same way that you can't take away from Federer's easy straight-set wins due to his opponents playing badly, you can't really take away from the kespa players' wins just because the gom players played badly. If they have an intimidation factor that makes the gom players scared of them, then it's just something that must be factored into the equation!
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
August 16 2012 13:53 GMT
#2124
Give them interviews !!!
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
August 16 2012 13:53 GMT
#2125
On August 16 2012 22:28 sitromit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 21:53 TeeTS wrote:
Genius' should have won, if he just moved his army right into the main (after he killed the 3rd) and left only some stalkers in the natural (a tactical move that should be known to a GSL player imo!).


Did you even watch the game? Jaedong had a million spines in his main already, the same spines he used to defend his expansions later. Genius couldn't have moved in, because he had lost his only siege units, he didn't have any Colossi left, and Jaedong was destroying his bases and all his production if he didn't go back.

I can ask the same question to you, because he started building them when Genius arrived in his 3rd and they were barely ready in time, when Genius tried to walk up the ramp. Pls check the VOD if you don't believe me
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
August 16 2012 14:00 GMT
#2126
On August 16 2012 20:24 Probe1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 20:23 MrCon wrote:
I wonder if a lot of players are sucking because it's summer time. No GSL, no GSTL, just WCS and if you're not in this you'd better just rest for a month than practicing. That would explain why so many games are of poor quality recently.

We can't blame it on Diablo 3 like before, that's for sure.

I'm not sure how to take that post haha.
We never had to blame anything "before", because the players didn't sucked in general. Or you talk about dota 2 where yes, diablo 3 had a big impact on average performance xD I mean take Reality vs Happy. One year ago during gomTvT a player who would float 800 gas 5mn into the game would be punished so hard. Or a player who get supply blocked for 1 minute. I don't even remember last time a player got supply blocked.
FATJESUSONABIKE
Profile Joined November 2011
184 Posts
August 16 2012 14:00 GMT
#2127
On August 16 2012 22:53 redemption wrote:
Although I can sort of understand people saying that the kespa players' wins "don't count" because the gom players didn't play their best due to their nerves and intimidation factor, people have to realize that nerves and intimidation due to an opponent's reputation is actually a part of ANY competition.

If you normally play really well, but a certain opponent consistently makes you nervous, your losses to that opponent still count! It's a part of the game. I'm pretty sure that during Federer's complete dominance in the tennis world, part of the reason that he had such an insane record was the invincibility factor that people felt even before starting the first point of the match. They knew he was a beast, and it made them crumble under pressure. Nowadays, even though Federer is still quite good, he can be beaten much more easily. Sure, he's gotten older, but I think part of the reason is also that he lost some of that intimidation factor that naturally made people play worse against him.

In the same way that you can't take away from Federer's easy straight-set wins due to his opponents playing badly, you can't really take away from the kespa players' wins just because the gom players played badly. If they have an intimidation factor that makes the gom players scared of them, then it's just something that must be factored into the equation!


Using one of the the best sportsmen of all time as comparison data feels somewhat misplaced here, lol :p

And well, not to start debating about tennis, but Federer hasn't lost his intimidation factor, it's just that the defensive baseline play that he's always hated has, in the past ten years, slowly become a standard.
Didn't prevent him from winning this year's Wimbledon, scoring silver at the Olympics and coming back to world no.1 ATP ranking though.
MosART
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1899 Posts
August 16 2012 14:00 GMT
#2128
So, I guess foreigners vs. Koreans simmered down. Now GOM/GSL vs. Kespa players is the rave. I like it.

Go 8th Team JD!
Dwelf
Profile Joined September 2009
Netherlands365 Posts
August 16 2012 14:01 GMT
#2129
The elephant is gaining in power quickly
k
anatem
Profile Joined September 2010
Romania1369 Posts
August 16 2012 14:01 GMT
#2130
On August 16 2012 22:28 Trizz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 22:25 shabinka wrote:
Glad to see KeSPA players beating SC2 'b-teamers'. No offense to anyone played in these matches. Im happy to see the BW pros at least getting some results quickly. I can't wait to see them play the upper tier of SC2 pros again.


gumiho and genius b teamers lel
whatever makes you sleep at night


DRG b-teamer too by his logic, he obviously isn't the brightest kid on his block
'Tis with our Judgements as our Watches, none / Go just alike, yet each believes his own.
skypacer
Profile Joined July 2003
China174 Posts
August 16 2012 14:01 GMT
#2131
On August 16 2012 22:29 FakeDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 22:24 DrPandaPhD wrote:
On August 16 2012 22:19 Boonbag wrote:
On August 16 2012 22:17 DrPandaPhD wrote:
On August 16 2012 22:15 Diizzy wrote:
i dont see how anyone particulary played bad. maybe except tail when he cheesed all 3 games against hero. seriosuly

reality pretty much out multitask and macro happpy so bad even in the game he lost.

effort 1st game was him easily defending gumiho drop play and just out macro him forcing gumiho to try to base race which didnt work out for him.

jaedong pew pew pew. to be fair genius alled in the 1st game too.



Gumiho outplayed Effort in the first game. If he had some form of preparations against Brood Lords he would have won that match easy. He was so far ahead but was caught off guard vs BLs which he couldn't fight and tried to baserace.


lol no, its not because he killed one hatch or two that he was ahead. Effort pretty much tore him appart.


He was ahead in bases / supply / upgrades / income. Effort did a lot better scouting than Gumiho that had no idea about the Brood Lords. He was up 4 bases to 3. The only thing which could have broke his defense was BLs and yet he didn't scout for it / completely forget their timing. He had 0 vikings vs 7-9 Broodlords. They didn't even have support when he flew them towards Gumiho's base so if he had 4 vikings he could have killed all and won.

Effort had one chance to win the game and Gumiho didn't scout for it. Which made him lose the game. The KeSPA players are good, but they are not flawless (yet).


Gumiho was sitting on 3 bases but had 5 OCs the whole time.
Gumiho lack of scouting on the BLs timing is just bad play on his part.
About 15 mins, he should have started producing vikings and throw down 2 starports which he didn't.

Effort outplayed Gumiho.
Effort was on 5 bases but got denied and had 4 bases to 4 bases.
Gumiho was never ahead in upgrades only in +1/+2/+3 attack but Effort was ahead in armor upgrades.
Supply? Effort was saving his bank for Bls.That why his supply seem lowered.

OB missed a lot of zergling worker raids when Gumiho seiged Effort's base (while China's commentator found that).
The fact is that Gumiho has only 1 base mining with very poor worker count in late game.
Gumiho didn't conter BL properly becasue he has not enough resources to mass vikings.
Gumiho had not any advantage when Effort's broodlord morhping. The only way he could win the game at that situation is taking advantage of Zerg's immobility and kill all Efforts' buildings.
by.Fantasy
ydeer1993
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom569 Posts
August 16 2012 14:02 GMT
#2132
so much hate in here? how can these gom players be classed as b teamers? gumiho,happy and genius are all capable of code S and tails is definately code A level, good victory for kespa players today, hope more than 1 make it into the asian finals, be good to see how they perform there and maybe even at the world championship!
**MMA** - MVP - Seed !
Mr Showtime
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1353 Posts
August 16 2012 14:04 GMT
#2133
On August 16 2012 23:02 ydeer1993 wrote:
so much hate in here? how can these gom players be classed as b teamers? gumiho,happy and genius are all capable of code S and tails is definately code A level, good victory for kespa players today, hope more than 1 make it into the asian finals, be good to see how they perform there and maybe even at the world championship!


Nobody who's opinion is worth a damn says that they are B-teamers. Just ignore the stupidity. I know it's hard as it is teeming out of this thread.
Azurues
Profile Joined March 2011
Malaysia5612 Posts
August 16 2012 14:04 GMT
#2134
is kespa player too good or what
shadymmj
Profile Joined June 2010
1906 Posts
August 16 2012 14:05 GMT
#2135
genius should consider it an honour to get beaten by a true legend

and i think genius is a very good player - he's not solid but can play very intelligently. a master strategist.
There is no such thing is "e-sports". There is Brood War, and then there is crap for nerds.
redemption
Profile Joined February 2006
United States112 Posts
August 16 2012 14:05 GMT
#2136
On August 16 2012 23:00 FATJESUSONABIKE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 22:53 redemption wrote:
Although I can sort of understand people saying that the kespa players' wins "don't count" because the gom players didn't play their best due to their nerves and intimidation factor, people have to realize that nerves and intimidation due to an opponent's reputation is actually a part of ANY competition.

If you normally play really well, but a certain opponent consistently makes you nervous, your losses to that opponent still count! It's a part of the game. I'm pretty sure that during Federer's complete dominance in the tennis world, part of the reason that he had such an insane record was the invincibility factor that people felt even before starting the first point of the match. They knew he was a beast, and it made them crumble under pressure. Nowadays, even though Federer is still quite good, he can be beaten much more easily. Sure, he's gotten older, but I think part of the reason is also that he lost some of that intimidation factor that naturally made people play worse against him.

In the same way that you can't take away from Federer's easy straight-set wins due to his opponents playing badly, you can't really take away from the kespa players' wins just because the gom players played badly. If they have an intimidation factor that makes the gom players scared of them, then it's just something that must be factored into the equation!


Using one of the the best sportsmen of all time as comparison data feels somewhat misplaced here, lol :p

And well, not to start debating about tennis, but Federer hasn't lost his intimidation factor, it's just that the defensive baseline play that he's always hated has, in the past ten years, slowly become a standard.
Didn't prevent him from winning this year's Wimbledon, scoring silver at the Olympics and coming back to world no.1 ATP ranking though.

Yeah, I know, but it's true for other sports too. And even in poker.... the intimidation factor changes everything. Phil Ivey can play a certain way because everyone is scared of fuck of him. If I went out there and tried the same things he did (assuming I could even play at his stakes), I'm sure people would respond very differently. Who you are is definitely a part of the equation, not just your objective skills and performance.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 14:18:40
August 16 2012 14:14 GMT
#2137
On August 16 2012 22:48 letian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 22:41 seansye wrote:
DId anyone see Genius take a peek at Jaedong after he won game 1? It absolutely didn't look like much, but I just felt there was a huge intimidation factor. Genius was also breathing heavily after his loss in game two and was shaking his hands and all. I mean this is Genius, the guy who likes to Manner BM his opponents and do ceremonies against big opponents.

I get pretty intimidated when I face certain pros on ladder(not bragging =P), but one can wonder how Genius feels having to go up against The Tyrant.


Imagine yourself playing a game against a guy who literally was a fucking machine for several years. His mechanics thinking and general mentality is miles better than yours and you are damn well aware of that. In fact his victories over several years, that inspired thousands of players and spawned so many fans, cannot be compared to your puny achievements. The only thing you have to offer is that you are better at this particular game and your know that not for long. They are kids after all, nothing to be ashamed of.

Poor Jaedong. o.o

Btw, anyone who thinks that this week heralds the domination of the elephants, there is no solid reason for why KeSPA players can lose horribly for weeks on end and suddenly turn it around like this. Maybe that would be the case for one or two players, but it makes no sense that suddenly all of them start winning because they have increased in skill. In that case we would see a different pattern, where in the timespan of a few months more and more players would start losing to KeSPA players, not just like this where within a week there is complete domination.
More than likely it's a few bad results that lead to insane pressure on GOM players, who then proceed to play horribly. Because Effort played so horribly against Hero just last week, don't tell me he's code S quality now.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
McBengt
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1684 Posts
August 16 2012 14:16 GMT
#2138
On August 16 2012 22:53 TeeTS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 22:28 sitromit wrote:
On August 16 2012 21:53 TeeTS wrote:
Genius' should have won, if he just moved his army right into the main (after he killed the 3rd) and left only some stalkers in the natural (a tactical move that should be known to a GSL player imo!).


Did you even watch the game? Jaedong had a million spines in his main already, the same spines he used to defend his expansions later. Genius couldn't have moved in, because he had lost his only siege units, he didn't have any Colossi left, and Jaedong was destroying his bases and all his production if he didn't go back.

I can ask the same question to you, because he started building them when Genius arrived in his 3rd and they were barely ready in time, when Genius tried to walk up the ramp. Pls check the VOD if you don't believe me


The spines actually finished in the nick of time. Three were already done when Genius was on the ramp, with the rest seconds from finishing. Moving up there would have been a very poor choice.
"My twelve year old will out-reason Bill Maher when it comes to understanding, you know, what, uh, how to logic work" - Rick Santorum
mijagi182
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland797 Posts
August 16 2012 14:18 GMT
#2139
its kinda funny how KeSPa players are dominationg losers bracket suddenly.
(conspiracy incoming) Must be good viewer count wise
Wonder what was that genius-cella talk about... like :
- leave a hole in teh wall! ;P

On a serious note though, we've seen some good games today.
Elephants are surely improving fast!

oh in the sun sun having fun
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 14:18:59
August 16 2012 14:18 GMT
#2140
On August 16 2012 00:22 eviltomahawk wrote:
My thoughts:

Yay KeSPA players!

No, my Liquibet!

Deja vu.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
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