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There's no crowd today because Gamescom isn't open to the public until thursday
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
August 15 2012 17:41 GMT
#3681
Only 2 choices:

1. Keep those controversial languages, keep this community relatively small and not aiim at growing e-sports much because addition of more people cause more language problems.

2. Try to cater to more people to grow the community like other sports. Just like no country's team is said to have raped or murdered another country's team in olympics, we need to refrain from using some words. Sometimes, it is inconvinient, but we sacrifice it in favor of having bigger e-sports community.

You can't do both. It is our choice.
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
August 15 2012 17:41 GMT
#3682
On August 16 2012 02:39 Chessz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 02:36 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:34 Chessz wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:27 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:26 Le BucheRON wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:23 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:21 Le BucheRON wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:17 Sc2Null wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:13 Chunhyang wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:08 shabby wrote:
[quote]

It is emotions, because you are immediately using the definition of forcefully having sex with someone, while rape can mean everything from abuse to violate and plunder etc. You can rape someones base in SC2 for instance. It is not an offensive and distasteful word, that is your opinion. A word is a word, and its context is what could be deemed offensive, not the words themselves, which only job is to describe something. You are making a case for that rape is a more offensive word than others, and that is based on your experiences and emotions with the word, and your associations with it.


Well, he does have a point though. 'Rape'. Some words have connotations that come with them, sometimes even regardless of the context they are used in. It's not always completely in the mind of the listener.

However, I do think 'rape' in this context though [gaming/competition] is ok. Usage and all. Custom. It's tolerable.


The guy is obviously trolling..If someone wants to say 'rape' or 'butt molested', thats his/her choice..You asking will only make them say it more.

Yes, but someday someone they love will be affected in this way and they'll be the ones that prefer others not to use this slang/terminology. Just grow up and use a better word that doesn't involve imagery of someone forcibly violating someone.

Did you know rape can refer to molestation in a completely non-personal sense? For example, the French imperialists raped the Haitian natural resources. Unless you think the French literally started fucking the dirt, you'e going to need to adopt a wider view of what words mean.


Yes, and rape is also another word for canola (where the oil comes from) but come on. We all know the connection here. I'm not going around calling people "faggot" and excusing myself because it has different meanings (cigarette, pile of wood).

I'm pretty sure when I use the word "rape" to describe utterly dominating and crushing someone in the context of competition, I'm not referring to them actually having held down the opposing player and fucked them.


Yea i'm sure that's the connotation you're applying to the word, but you actually undermine your own argument because in usage/linguistics debates, an appeal to context goes both ways (ie. sensitive to both sender and receiver of a message). So there isn't any reason to not avoid potential harm on behalf of the receivers of your message. It's not the horrible terrible faux pas some make it out to be, but you can't argue for your own use by asserting only your denotation applies. Cause it will always go both ways. It just boils down to lazy/juvenile diction if anything.

Well aware of that. I understand why people might be offended by the use of a touchy word. I think that's their error, though.


O Yea that's entirely reasonable, stumbling upon potential PTSD triggers in a starcraft thread, what an error. How embarrassing!
I'll take my leave, just don't get your jimmies all rustled like Destiny if someone calls you lazy or immature or juvenile as a result.

I don't get angry when people say things like that, because they undermine their entire position in doing so. Further, I think devoting intellectual efforts to eliminating trivial issues like word usage in unrelated settings is about as lazy as you can get when it comes to ethics.
Wintex
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Norway16849 Posts
August 15 2012 17:42 GMT
#3683
Wow. PiG good caster. Nice insight and soft voice.
The Bomber boy
AgentChaos
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom4569 Posts
August 15 2012 17:42 GMT
#3684
forgg no cheese :O
IM & EG supporter
Chessz
Profile Joined August 2010
United States644 Posts
August 15 2012 17:43 GMT
#3685
On August 16 2012 02:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 02:39 Chessz wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:36 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:34 Chessz wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:27 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:26 Le BucheRON wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:23 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:21 Le BucheRON wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:17 Sc2Null wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:13 Chunhyang wrote:
[quote]

Well, he does have a point though. 'Rape'. Some words have connotations that come with them, sometimes even regardless of the context they are used in. It's not always completely in the mind of the listener.

However, I do think 'rape' in this context though [gaming/competition] is ok. Usage and all. Custom. It's tolerable.


The guy is obviously trolling..If someone wants to say 'rape' or 'butt molested', thats his/her choice..You asking will only make them say it more.

Yes, but someday someone they love will be affected in this way and they'll be the ones that prefer others not to use this slang/terminology. Just grow up and use a better word that doesn't involve imagery of someone forcibly violating someone.

Did you know rape can refer to molestation in a completely non-personal sense? For example, the French imperialists raped the Haitian natural resources. Unless you think the French literally started fucking the dirt, you'e going to need to adopt a wider view of what words mean.


Yes, and rape is also another word for canola (where the oil comes from) but come on. We all know the connection here. I'm not going around calling people "faggot" and excusing myself because it has different meanings (cigarette, pile of wood).

I'm pretty sure when I use the word "rape" to describe utterly dominating and crushing someone in the context of competition, I'm not referring to them actually having held down the opposing player and fucked them.


Yea i'm sure that's the connotation you're applying to the word, but you actually undermine your own argument because in usage/linguistics debates, an appeal to context goes both ways (ie. sensitive to both sender and receiver of a message). So there isn't any reason to not avoid potential harm on behalf of the receivers of your message. It's not the horrible terrible faux pas some make it out to be, but you can't argue for your own use by asserting only your denotation applies. Cause it will always go both ways. It just boils down to lazy/juvenile diction if anything.

Well aware of that. I understand why people might be offended by the use of a touchy word. I think that's their error, though.


O Yea that's entirely reasonable, stumbling upon potential PTSD triggers in a starcraft thread, what an error. How embarrassing!
I'll take my leave, just don't get your jimmies all rustled like Destiny if someone calls you lazy or immature or juvenile as a result.

Feel free to take your leave, or call people with a different attitude to you juvenile. Nobody here has been gratuitously offensive


I'm aware of how it was used and take more offense to the ideology being defended then the original messages for sure. but I didn't call anyone juvenile. I was just informing Shiori to not be surprised were that to happen
knicyo
Profile Joined June 2012
177 Posts
August 15 2012 17:44 GMT
#3686
Gogo ForGG!!!!
Ryung - Parting - Life - MMA - Genius - Fantasy
LogiiK
Profile Joined June 2011
France185 Posts
August 15 2012 17:44 GMT
#3687
Gogo forgg millenium fighting !
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
August 15 2012 17:44 GMT
#3688
On August 16 2012 02:41 Orek wrote:
Only 2 choices:

1. Keep those controversial languages, keep this community relatively small and not aiim at growing e-sports much because addition of more people cause more language problems.

2. Try to cater to more people to grow the community like other sports. Just like no country's team is said to have raped or murdered another country's team in olympics, we need to refrain from using some words. Sometimes, it is inconvinient, but we sacrifice it in favor of having bigger e-sports community.

You can't do both. It is our choice.


/vote 1

Easy choice.
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
August 15 2012 17:45 GMT
#3689
On August 16 2012 02:41 Orek wrote:
Only 2 choices:

1. Keep those controversial languages, keep this community relatively small and not aiim at growing e-sports much because addition of more people cause more language problems.

2. Try to cater to more people to grow the community like other sports. Just like no country's team is said to have raped or murdered another country's team in olympics, we need to refrain from using some words. Sometimes, it is inconvinient, but we sacrifice it in favor of having bigger e-sports community.

You can't do both. It is our choice.

GRRM can write an explicit rape scene in a book - It's a best seller and no one complains

Someone mentions the word rape on a forum - The entire community is instantly labeled as cancerous and insensitive, preventing the scene from growing

Makes sense.
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
August 15 2012 17:45 GMT
#3690
Unfortunate opponent for JYP. A really strong Terran who is in no way jetlagged since he is currently living in France. His JYPvT has become better recently, but this is kind of an uphill battle.
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
August 15 2012 17:45 GMT
#3691
On August 16 2012 02:41 Orek wrote:
Only 2 choices:

1. Keep those controversial languages, keep this community relatively small and not aiim at growing e-sports much because addition of more people cause more language problems.

2. Try to cater to more people to grow the community like other sports. Just like no country's team is said to have raped or murdered another country's team in olympics, we need to refrain from using some words. Sometimes, it is inconvinient, but we sacrifice it in favor of having bigger e-sports community.

You can't do both. It is our choice.


If you look up , lets say a football forum, where there are supporters of different teams taking part in threads. i assure you that there will be words in those threads that will make your eyes bleed. Stop acting like e-esports fans are any worse then random supporters of other sports involving mostly younger males.
Jacobs Ladder
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1705 Posts
August 15 2012 17:46 GMT
#3692
On August 16 2012 02:40 bo1b wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 02:38 Jacobs Ladder wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:36 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:34 Chessz wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:27 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:26 Le BucheRON wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:23 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:21 Le BucheRON wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:17 Sc2Null wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:13 Chunhyang wrote:
[quote]

Well, he does have a point though. 'Rape'. Some words have connotations that come with them, sometimes even regardless of the context they are used in. It's not always completely in the mind of the listener.

However, I do think 'rape' in this context though [gaming/competition] is ok. Usage and all. Custom. It's tolerable.


The guy is obviously trolling..If someone wants to say 'rape' or 'butt molested', thats his/her choice..You asking will only make them say it more.

Yes, but someday someone they love will be affected in this way and they'll be the ones that prefer others not to use this slang/terminology. Just grow up and use a better word that doesn't involve imagery of someone forcibly violating someone.

Did you know rape can refer to molestation in a completely non-personal sense? For example, the French imperialists raped the Haitian natural resources. Unless you think the French literally started fucking the dirt, you'e going to need to adopt a wider view of what words mean.


Yes, and rape is also another word for canola (where the oil comes from) but come on. We all know the connection here. I'm not going around calling people "faggot" and excusing myself because it has different meanings (cigarette, pile of wood).

I'm pretty sure when I use the word "rape" to describe utterly dominating and crushing someone in the context of competition, I'm not referring to them actually having held down the opposing player and fucked them.


Yea i'm sure that's the connotation you're applying to the word, but you actually undermine your own argument because in usage/linguistics debates, an appeal to context goes both ways (ie. sensitive to both sender and receiver of a message). So there isn't any reason to not avoid potential harm on behalf of the receivers of your message. It's not the horrible terrible faux pas some make it out to be, but you can't argue for your own use by asserting only your denotation applies. Cause it will always go both ways. It just boils down to lazy/juvenile diction if anything.

Well aware of that. I understand why people might be offended by the use of a touchy word. I think that's their error, though.

See, this is what I don't get. Why should you use a touchy word which you could easily avoid? Its so much easier to avoid those words and not harm someone. Even if you feel its somewhat irrational of them, why not just make a minimum effort to be kind to your fellow man?

Do you feel it's societies fault that a band aid solution to a problem is better then actually fixing it? Is wishing that people didn't mention rape better then providing support and therapy to people who were raped?
Why not both? Why not avoid triggering people as well as providing them help. There's a difference between not flagrantly using the word rape and not addressing rape. Again, my whole philosophy on this issue is just try to be kind to your fellow man.
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
August 15 2012 17:46 GMT
#3693
On August 16 2012 02:45 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 02:41 Orek wrote:
Only 2 choices:

1. Keep those controversial languages, keep this community relatively small and not aiim at growing e-sports much because addition of more people cause more language problems.

2. Try to cater to more people to grow the community like other sports. Just like no country's team is said to have raped or murdered another country's team in olympics, we need to refrain from using some words. Sometimes, it is inconvinient, but we sacrifice it in favor of having bigger e-sports community.

You can't do both. It is our choice.

GRRM can write an explicit rape scene in a book - It's a best seller and no one complains

Someone mentions the word rape on a forum - The entire community is instantly labeled as cancerous and insensitive, preventing the scene from growing

Makes sense.

Millenium series had someone getting raped as well. That series of books seemed to be a commercial success.
AgentChaos
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom4569 Posts
August 15 2012 17:47 GMT
#3694
wtf stream lag!!
IM & EG supporter
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
August 15 2012 17:47 GMT
#3695
On August 16 2012 02:46 Jacobs Ladder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 02:40 bo1b wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:38 Jacobs Ladder wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:36 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:34 Chessz wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:27 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:26 Le BucheRON wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:23 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:21 Le BucheRON wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:17 Sc2Null wrote:
[quote]

The guy is obviously trolling..If someone wants to say 'rape' or 'butt molested', thats his/her choice..You asking will only make them say it more.

Yes, but someday someone they love will be affected in this way and they'll be the ones that prefer others not to use this slang/terminology. Just grow up and use a better word that doesn't involve imagery of someone forcibly violating someone.

Did you know rape can refer to molestation in a completely non-personal sense? For example, the French imperialists raped the Haitian natural resources. Unless you think the French literally started fucking the dirt, you'e going to need to adopt a wider view of what words mean.


Yes, and rape is also another word for canola (where the oil comes from) but come on. We all know the connection here. I'm not going around calling people "faggot" and excusing myself because it has different meanings (cigarette, pile of wood).

I'm pretty sure when I use the word "rape" to describe utterly dominating and crushing someone in the context of competition, I'm not referring to them actually having held down the opposing player and fucked them.


Yea i'm sure that's the connotation you're applying to the word, but you actually undermine your own argument because in usage/linguistics debates, an appeal to context goes both ways (ie. sensitive to both sender and receiver of a message). So there isn't any reason to not avoid potential harm on behalf of the receivers of your message. It's not the horrible terrible faux pas some make it out to be, but you can't argue for your own use by asserting only your denotation applies. Cause it will always go both ways. It just boils down to lazy/juvenile diction if anything.

Well aware of that. I understand why people might be offended by the use of a touchy word. I think that's their error, though.

See, this is what I don't get. Why should you use a touchy word which you could easily avoid? Its so much easier to avoid those words and not harm someone. Even if you feel its somewhat irrational of them, why not just make a minimum effort to be kind to your fellow man?

Do you feel it's societies fault that a band aid solution to a problem is better then actually fixing it? Is wishing that people didn't mention rape better then providing support and therapy to people who were raped?
Why not both? Why not avoid triggering people as well as providing them help. There's a difference between not flagrantly using the word rape and not addressing rape. Again, my whole philosophy on this issue is just try to be kind to your fellow man.

Because avoiding a word isn't being kind - it's avoiding a word. Conversely censoring people from using a word because it has a completely different meaning to something horrible is not being kind at all.
sc2holar
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden1637 Posts
August 15 2012 17:47 GMT
#3696
On August 16 2012 02:45 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 02:41 Orek wrote:
Only 2 choices:

1. Keep those controversial languages, keep this community relatively small and not aiim at growing e-sports much because addition of more people cause more language problems.

2. Try to cater to more people to grow the community like other sports. Just like no country's team is said to have raped or murdered another country's team in olympics, we need to refrain from using some words. Sometimes, it is inconvinient, but we sacrifice it in favor of having bigger e-sports community.

You can't do both. It is our choice.

GRRM can write an explicit rape scene in a book - It's a best seller and no one complains

Someone mentions the word rape on a forum - The entire community is instantly labeled as cancerous and insensitive, preventing the scene from growing

Makes sense.

Comparing fiction and reality makes sense.

you no take candle
whereismymind
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom717 Posts
August 15 2012 17:48 GMT
#3697
On August 16 2012 02:32 GumBa wrote:
Wait a minute isnt the host this guy?



Yes he is. Pro baller
one day.. i'll lose my mind
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
August 15 2012 17:48 GMT
#3698
On August 16 2012 02:45 Fjodorov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 02:41 Orek wrote:
Only 2 choices:

1. Keep those controversial languages, keep this community relatively small and not aiim at growing e-sports much because addition of more people cause more language problems.

2. Try to cater to more people to grow the community like other sports. Just like no country's team is said to have raped or murdered another country's team in olympics, we need to refrain from using some words. Sometimes, it is inconvinient, but we sacrifice it in favor of having bigger e-sports community.

You can't do both. It is our choice.


If you look up , lets say a football forum, where there are supporters of different teams taking part in threads. i assure you that there will be words in those threads that will make your eyes bleed. Stop acting like e-esports fans are any worse then random supporters of other sports involving mostly younger males.


Yeah this is really the crux of it; you'll never hear 'Man U are absolutely raping Arsenal!' from the commentators but on a forum or in a pub you will hear that and worse.
Darneck
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden1394 Posts
August 15 2012 17:48 GMT
#3699
Tarson holds!
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3399 Posts
August 15 2012 17:48 GMT
#3700
On August 16 2012 02:47 bo1b wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2012 02:46 Jacobs Ladder wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:40 bo1b wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:38 Jacobs Ladder wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:36 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:34 Chessz wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:27 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:26 Le BucheRON wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:23 Shiori wrote:
On August 16 2012 02:21 Le BucheRON wrote:
[quote]
Yes, but someday someone they love will be affected in this way and they'll be the ones that prefer others not to use this slang/terminology. Just grow up and use a better word that doesn't involve imagery of someone forcibly violating someone.

Did you know rape can refer to molestation in a completely non-personal sense? For example, the French imperialists raped the Haitian natural resources. Unless you think the French literally started fucking the dirt, you'e going to need to adopt a wider view of what words mean.


Yes, and rape is also another word for canola (where the oil comes from) but come on. We all know the connection here. I'm not going around calling people "faggot" and excusing myself because it has different meanings (cigarette, pile of wood).

I'm pretty sure when I use the word "rape" to describe utterly dominating and crushing someone in the context of competition, I'm not referring to them actually having held down the opposing player and fucked them.


Yea i'm sure that's the connotation you're applying to the word, but you actually undermine your own argument because in usage/linguistics debates, an appeal to context goes both ways (ie. sensitive to both sender and receiver of a message). So there isn't any reason to not avoid potential harm on behalf of the receivers of your message. It's not the horrible terrible faux pas some make it out to be, but you can't argue for your own use by asserting only your denotation applies. Cause it will always go both ways. It just boils down to lazy/juvenile diction if anything.

Well aware of that. I understand why people might be offended by the use of a touchy word. I think that's their error, though.

See, this is what I don't get. Why should you use a touchy word which you could easily avoid? Its so much easier to avoid those words and not harm someone. Even if you feel its somewhat irrational of them, why not just make a minimum effort to be kind to your fellow man?

Do you feel it's societies fault that a band aid solution to a problem is better then actually fixing it? Is wishing that people didn't mention rape better then providing support and therapy to people who were raped?
Why not both? Why not avoid triggering people as well as providing them help. There's a difference between not flagrantly using the word rape and not addressing rape. Again, my whole philosophy on this issue is just try to be kind to your fellow man.

Because avoiding a word isn't being kind - it's avoiding a word. Conversely censoring people from using a word because it has a completely different meaning to something horrible is not being kind at all.

This isn't about avoiding a word.
It's about watering-down it's meaning.
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