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On July 22 2012 11:24 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:22 vthree wrote:
Teamkill tomorrow between First and Losira... First just owning terrans left and right 8-1 vs TOP, PuMa, Ganzi, aLive. Sadly, he got 2-0d by a Euro zerg... Doesn't bode well for him vs Losira, unless jetlag played a role somehow.
teamkills are a whole other story too. bet he's gonna be prepared for mutas.
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On July 22 2012 11:22 Sakray wrote:
Lol at how he gave up without trying to fight. He could have won since after any fight, Z is just "press 1 key for remax", anyway I hope he's gonna lose in the loser bracket, or against Taeja again.
except you also need money to remax ... which he did not have
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On July 22 2012 11:22 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:17 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:15 yeint wrote:On July 22 2012 11:09 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:06 yeint wrote:On July 22 2012 11:06 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:04 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:00 AgentChaos wrote:On July 22 2012 10:59 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 10:55 GreyKnight wrote:
[quote]
i think you're underestimating what losira is doing but why does it matter anyways? thats what im asking, can you point out what losira is doing thats good so i can appreciate him more, because i can never see what zerg does that is wholely defining of their skill, but for terrans its obvious from how well they split in engagements, protoss with blink and shit too, but zerg has nothing really defining that i can look at and go "holy shit, that guy is good" inject I guess, but you dont see injects and its hardly inspiring, only problem with that is stephano seems to be the guy with the most stuff all the time and he says that his injects are his worse aspect of his play. I guess im the only one that doesnt find remaxing as a zerg very impressive? :S Just because you as a viewer, who doesn't understand zerg, doesn't find it impressive doesn't mean that it isn't. It's a spectator sport though. So? if you are sophisticated watcher you can appreciate it, if not you don't. I honestly don't see where this conversation is going, zerg need to be nerfed because injects aren't fun to watch for people who don't understand the game? I didn't say I didn't understand the importance of spot on injects, I'm saying it doesn't make the games better to watch. It's like saying boxing is made more impressive because I know the boxers are really good at skipping a rope. It's not even remotely like that, it would be like someone who understands how important footwork is in boxing, not just watching for big ass haymaker. The problem with injects is that they're technically very simple to excel at. You just have to hit V every 40 seconds on the dot. Now, this isn't easy by any means, but once someone perfects it, it's the same every game. Battle micro is far more dynamic and changes from game to game.
Exactly this, zerg seems to have no flash or pazzaz to their engagements aside from the occasional ling surround or magic box, but they arent hard in itself, roaches need some sort of blink equivalent, would make games with zerg in infintely more fun to watch, imagine roach vs stalker blink wars xD
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On July 22 2012 11:23 Zacsafus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:20 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:18 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:14 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:13 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:12 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:09 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:06 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:04 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:00 AgentChaos wrote:
[quote]
inject I guess, but you dont see injects and its hardly inspiring, only problem with that is stephano seems to be the guy with the most stuff all the time and he says that his injects are his worse aspect of his play. I guess im the only one that doesnt find remaxing as a zerg very impressive? :S Just because you as a viewer, who doesn't understand zerg, doesn't find it impressive doesn't mean that it isn't. but its just mechanics, injects arent quite as make or break as a marine split or blink micro, i mean injects arent particularly hard, i guess for me zerg just lack the wow factor as a spectator, theyre fun to play but i never feel amazingly impressed by any zerg players when i watch them play, but i was when i first saw mkp marine split and hero with his crazy warp prism play, i hope HotS brings more spectator eye candy for the zerg race Did you watch Symbol vs Parting or Stephano vs. Ryung/MKP? Probably, what was exciting about those games? Good exciting engagements, the exact thing you (or whoever originally said that) are saying don't exist. I didnt say that exciting engagements didnt exist, jsut that all the clutch plays occur from micro on the non zergs end, i mean check out zvz, roach wars are literally just 1 a and fungal the biggest clump :/ itd be nice if zerg got some sort of active ability that required alot of apm so you can visually see how quickly the player is playing This is so insanely ignorant, ZvZ roach wars are all about how well you can split and spread your roaches, all you are showing with these posts are that you have no idea how the zerg race works. The only roach splitting is positioning and thats minimal, i mean it usually just comes down to who attacks into a bad position or who has more roaches and hydras :/ All your currently doing at the moment is being extremely defensive about your race when im not even attacking it, just saying if there was some sort of equivalent for the zerg race and if not, something should be added in HotS.
Not alot of zergs actually split their armys and engage the opponent with multiples flanks and front, I see a lot of them just charge head on. But when you see a zerg army coming from multiple sides surrounding you and your army evaporating, oh man it's exciting but it's freaking scary,overwhelming and depressive also from a terran perspective haha
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On July 22 2012 11:23 Zacsafus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:20 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:18 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:14 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:13 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:12 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:09 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:06 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:04 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:00 AgentChaos wrote:
[quote]
inject I guess, but you dont see injects and its hardly inspiring, only problem with that is stephano seems to be the guy with the most stuff all the time and he says that his injects are his worse aspect of his play. I guess im the only one that doesnt find remaxing as a zerg very impressive? :S Just because you as a viewer, who doesn't understand zerg, doesn't find it impressive doesn't mean that it isn't. but its just mechanics, injects arent quite as make or break as a marine split or blink micro, i mean injects arent particularly hard, i guess for me zerg just lack the wow factor as a spectator, theyre fun to play but i never feel amazingly impressed by any zerg players when i watch them play, but i was when i first saw mkp marine split and hero with his crazy warp prism play, i hope HotS brings more spectator eye candy for the zerg race Did you watch Symbol vs Parting or Stephano vs. Ryung/MKP? Probably, what was exciting about those games? Good exciting engagements, the exact thing you (or whoever originally said that) are saying don't exist. I didnt say that exciting engagements didnt exist, jsut that all the clutch plays occur from micro on the non zergs end, i mean check out zvz, roach wars are literally just 1 a and fungal the biggest clump :/ itd be nice if zerg got some sort of active ability that required alot of apm so you can visually see how quickly the player is playing This is so insanely ignorant, ZvZ roach wars are all about how well you can split and spread your roaches, all you are showing with these posts are that you have no idea how the zerg race works. The only roach splitting is positioning and thats minimal, i mean it usually just comes down to who attacks into a bad position or who has more roaches and hydras :/ All your currently doing at the moment is being extremely defensive about your race when im not even attacking it, just saying if there was some sort of equivalent for the zerg race and if not, something should be added in HotS.
Roach splitting and positioning is by far the most important part of the mid game, if you engage badly once you lose the game. My point is this, there is a massive importance in how you engage and control as zerg in a fight, you just don't understand zerg well enough to appreciate it., it's pretty damn exciting watching Stephano play because he always takes such good engagements.
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Fast BLs have to have been for a timing - akin to the fast 2/3 colossi-timings against terran. But it was scouted by the cloaked banshee and taeja was able to adapt beautifully.
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On July 22 2012 11:24 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:22 vthree wrote:
Teamkill tomorrow between First and Losira... First just owning terrans left and right 8-1 vs TOP, PuMa, Ganzi, aLive. Sadly, he got 2-0d by a Euro zerg... Doesn't bode well for him vs Losira, unless jetlag played a role somehow.
He 2-0'd Coca recently in an online cup, if that means anything to you.
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On July 22 2012 11:25 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:21 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 22 2012 11:20 Toadvine wrote:On July 22 2012 11:15 SafeAsCheese wrote:
going to be so sad when losira has 30 bl and 15 infestors and 30 corruptors and completely smashes taeja's army and wins
If only taeja would fucking get hunter seeker missiles You're actually afraid he's going to win, aren't you? That's why you're offering preemptive excuses. "Oh, if he loses, it's because he didn't build Ravens!" Relax man, Blizzard doesn't read LR threads anyway, you can't stop the nerf even if you wanted to. No, it's because it's the most used zerg strategy when they are behind. You use your last 2 bases and turtle super hard to try and make a deathball, then try and catch the vikings in a big fungal. It can make a terran with 5k/3k bank still lose becuase they will lose 100 supply and zerg will lose like 30. It happens a lot. And how would a HSM help against that at all? "Oh my raven got fungal'd out of HSM range, gg?"
I think its not as a bad of a strat when it could downright win the game for you, and have the bank/time for it.
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On July 22 2012 11:23 Shaddar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:21 Whatson wrote:On July 22 2012 11:20 Ylrahc wrote:Wasn't the gg a bit early ? I mean, when you see the comeback Stephano managed to do, it wasn't 100% lost, maybe 90% ?  Please don't start this. Don't you know Stephano can win any game from any situation?
I heard Stephano once came back from 1 supply vs max terran army...
Seriously, Stephano's comeback was great but I think it was hyped by the casters. His air army was superior and what he did was protect them very well with his infestors. Losira was behind on army size, army comp, bases, eco...
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On July 22 2012 11:24 Undrass wrote:
Watch stephano vs any protoss, he micro roach/ling like a boss. You can't tell me that is not amazing play, it's not a coincidence stephano- roach/ling attacks does twice the amount of damage that any other roachling attacks.
He target fires the important stuff, everyone does that
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On July 22 2012 11:23 oogieogie wrote:
so stephano is still in this right?
Yes and he stand a fairly good chance at winning too. He's not my preffered champion ( Losiracat ^-^) but he's played some seriously good games overall.
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On July 22 2012 11:23 Shaddar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:21 Whatson wrote:On July 22 2012 11:20 Ylrahc wrote:Wasn't the gg a bit early ? I mean, when you see the comeback Stephano managed to do, it wasn't 100% lost, maybe 90% ? Please don't start this. Don't you know Stephano can win any game from any situation?
Don't make me say what I didn't say. I understand why Losira gg'ed out, but I'm not an SC2 expert and I want to know it was recoverable. He still had a loooot of infestors and some economy. Of course losing the BLs to the nuke was a big hit, and it probably put him in a bad mindset. Maybe, just maybe, there was a hint of a Idra's gg ? Or there was really nothing to do ? It's a question, nothing more.
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On July 22 2012 11:23 Zacsafus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:20 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:18 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:14 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:13 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:12 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:09 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:06 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:04 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:00 AgentChaos wrote:
[quote]
inject I guess, but you dont see injects and its hardly inspiring, only problem with that is stephano seems to be the guy with the most stuff all the time and he says that his injects are his worse aspect of his play. I guess im the only one that doesnt find remaxing as a zerg very impressive? :S Just because you as a viewer, who doesn't understand zerg, doesn't find it impressive doesn't mean that it isn't. but its just mechanics, injects arent quite as make or break as a marine split or blink micro, i mean injects arent particularly hard, i guess for me zerg just lack the wow factor as a spectator, theyre fun to play but i never feel amazingly impressed by any zerg players when i watch them play, but i was when i first saw mkp marine split and hero with his crazy warp prism play, i hope HotS brings more spectator eye candy for the zerg race Did you watch Symbol vs Parting or Stephano vs. Ryung/MKP? Probably, what was exciting about those games? Good exciting engagements, the exact thing you (or whoever originally said that) are saying don't exist. I didnt say that exciting engagements didnt exist, jsut that all the clutch plays occur from micro on the non zergs end, i mean check out zvz, roach wars are literally just 1 a and fungal the biggest clump :/ itd be nice if zerg got some sort of active ability that required alot of apm so you can visually see how quickly the player is playing This is so insanely ignorant, ZvZ roach wars are all about how well you can split and spread your roaches, all you are showing with these posts are that you have no idea how the zerg race works. The only roach splitting is positioning and thats minimal, i mean it usually just comes down to who attacks into a bad position or who has more roaches and hydras :/ All your currently doing at the moment is being extremely defensive about your race when im not even attacking it, just saying if there was some sort of equivalent for the zerg race and if not, something should be added in HotS.
Okay I play random so no bias. But you have zero knowledge about the zerg race. Go watch DRG micro mutas in the DH Valencia tournament. Go watch some ESV games where a zerg like Hyun or Coca will split his BLs to avoid a vortex. And try playing ZvZ yourself.
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On July 22 2012 11:27 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:23 Shaddar wrote:On July 22 2012 11:21 Whatson wrote:On July 22 2012 11:20 Ylrahc wrote:Wasn't the gg a bit early ? I mean, when you see the comeback Stephano managed to do, it wasn't 100% lost, maybe 90% ? Please don't start this. Don't you know Stephano can win any game from any situation? I heard Stephano once came back from 1 supply vs max terran army... Seriously, Stephano's comeback was great but I think it was hyped by the casters. His air army was superior and what he did was protect them very well with his infestors. Losira was behind on army size, army comp, bases, eco...
So what you are saying is there was a chance for a epic comeback?
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On July 22 2012 11:22 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:17 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:15 yeint wrote:On July 22 2012 11:09 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:06 yeint wrote:On July 22 2012 11:06 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:04 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:00 AgentChaos wrote:On July 22 2012 10:59 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 10:55 GreyKnight wrote:
[quote]
i think you're underestimating what losira is doing but why does it matter anyways? thats what im asking, can you point out what losira is doing thats good so i can appreciate him more, because i can never see what zerg does that is wholely defining of their skill, but for terrans its obvious from how well they split in engagements, protoss with blink and shit too, but zerg has nothing really defining that i can look at and go "holy shit, that guy is good" inject I guess, but you dont see injects and its hardly inspiring, only problem with that is stephano seems to be the guy with the most stuff all the time and he says that his injects are his worse aspect of his play. I guess im the only one that doesnt find remaxing as a zerg very impressive? :S Just because you as a viewer, who doesn't understand zerg, doesn't find it impressive doesn't mean that it isn't. It's a spectator sport though. So? if you are sophisticated watcher you can appreciate it, if not you don't. I honestly don't see where this conversation is going, zerg need to be nerfed because injects aren't fun to watch for people who don't understand the game? I didn't say I didn't understand the importance of spot on injects, I'm saying it doesn't make the games better to watch. It's like saying boxing is made more impressive because I know the boxers are really good at skipping a rope. It's not even remotely like that, it would be like someone who understands how important footwork is in boxing, not just watching for big ass haymaker. The problem with injects is that they're technically very simple to excel at. You just have to hit V every 40 seconds on the dot. Now, this isn't easy by any means, but once someone perfects it, it's the same every game. Battle micro is far more dynamic and changes from game to game.
also injects aren't something we see on the screen
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Sucks Losira and First have to teamkill, but at least they both got really far in the tournament. A good showing by LG-IM for sure.
First's lower bracket run was pretty sick.
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On July 22 2012 11:24 Undrass wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:20 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:18 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:14 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:13 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:12 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:09 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:06 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:04 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:00 AgentChaos wrote:
[quote]
inject I guess, but you dont see injects and its hardly inspiring, only problem with that is stephano seems to be the guy with the most stuff all the time and he says that his injects are his worse aspect of his play. I guess im the only one that doesnt find remaxing as a zerg very impressive? :S Just because you as a viewer, who doesn't understand zerg, doesn't find it impressive doesn't mean that it isn't. but its just mechanics, injects arent quite as make or break as a marine split or blink micro, i mean injects arent particularly hard, i guess for me zerg just lack the wow factor as a spectator, theyre fun to play but i never feel amazingly impressed by any zerg players when i watch them play, but i was when i first saw mkp marine split and hero with his crazy warp prism play, i hope HotS brings more spectator eye candy for the zerg race Did you watch Symbol vs Parting or Stephano vs. Ryung/MKP? Probably, what was exciting about those games? Good exciting engagements, the exact thing you (or whoever originally said that) are saying don't exist. I didnt say that exciting engagements didnt exist, jsut that all the clutch plays occur from micro on the non zergs end, i mean check out zvz, roach wars are literally just 1 a and fungal the biggest clump :/ itd be nice if zerg got some sort of active ability that required alot of apm so you can visually see how quickly the player is playing This is so insanely ignorant, ZvZ roach wars are all about how well you can split and spread your roaches, all you are showing with these posts are that you have no idea how the zerg race works. Watch stephano vs any protoss, he micro roach/ling like a boss. You can't tell me that is not amazing play, it's not a coincidence stephano- roach/ling attacks does twice the amount of damage that any other roachling attacks.
Maybe its because lings are so fast and melee its hard to see if they do anything special with them, i get that roach focus firing with stephano is extremely good, but it doesnt give me the wow factor, it all goes back to the beta, people thought zerg seemed rushed and not "wow-y" enough, i still agree with that hope hots has something good, maybe mass vipers and win abduct micro vs blink stalkers would be fun xD
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1 mining base with decent minerals left and it was under fire from nukes - 10 infestors with a single fungal, an emp just hit. Nukes falling and no way of breaking the nuke-position. It was over.
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On July 22 2012 11:29 Zacsafus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:24 Undrass wrote:On July 22 2012 11:20 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:18 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:14 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:13 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:12 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:09 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:06 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:04 Zacsafus wrote:
[quote]
I guess, but you dont see injects and its hardly inspiring, only problem with that is stephano seems to be the guy with the most stuff all the time and he says that his injects are his worse aspect of his play. I guess im the only one that doesnt find remaxing as a zerg very impressive? :S Just because you as a viewer, who doesn't understand zerg, doesn't find it impressive doesn't mean that it isn't. but its just mechanics, injects arent quite as make or break as a marine split or blink micro, i mean injects arent particularly hard, i guess for me zerg just lack the wow factor as a spectator, theyre fun to play but i never feel amazingly impressed by any zerg players when i watch them play, but i was when i first saw mkp marine split and hero with his crazy warp prism play, i hope HotS brings more spectator eye candy for the zerg race Did you watch Symbol vs Parting or Stephano vs. Ryung/MKP? Probably, what was exciting about those games? Good exciting engagements, the exact thing you (or whoever originally said that) are saying don't exist. I didnt say that exciting engagements didnt exist, jsut that all the clutch plays occur from micro on the non zergs end, i mean check out zvz, roach wars are literally just 1 a and fungal the biggest clump :/ itd be nice if zerg got some sort of active ability that required alot of apm so you can visually see how quickly the player is playing This is so insanely ignorant, ZvZ roach wars are all about how well you can split and spread your roaches, all you are showing with these posts are that you have no idea how the zerg race works. Watch stephano vs any protoss, he micro roach/ling like a boss. You can't tell me that is not amazing play, it's not a coincidence stephano- roach/ling attacks does twice the amount of damage that any other roachling attacks. Maybe its because lings are so fast and melee its hard to see if they do anything special with them, i get that roach focus firing with stephano is extremely good, but it doesnt give me the wow factor, it all goes back to the beta, people thought zerg seemed rushed and not "wow-y" enough, i still agree with that hope hots has something good, maybe mass vipers and win abduct micro vs blink stalkers would be fun xD
Abduct+NP on colossi/tanks
Oh god why..
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On July 22 2012 11:26 Zacsafus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 11:22 yeint wrote:On July 22 2012 11:17 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:15 yeint wrote:On July 22 2012 11:09 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:06 yeint wrote:On July 22 2012 11:06 the`postman wrote:On July 22 2012 11:04 Zacsafus wrote:On July 22 2012 11:00 AgentChaos wrote:On July 22 2012 10:59 Zacsafus wrote:
[quote]
thats what im asking, can you point out what losira is doing thats good so i can appreciate him more, because i can never see what zerg does that is wholely defining of their skill, but for terrans its obvious from how well they split in engagements, protoss with blink and shit too, but zerg has nothing really defining that i can look at and go "holy shit, that guy is good" inject I guess, but you dont see injects and its hardly inspiring, only problem with that is stephano seems to be the guy with the most stuff all the time and he says that his injects are his worse aspect of his play. I guess im the only one that doesnt find remaxing as a zerg very impressive? :S Just because you as a viewer, who doesn't understand zerg, doesn't find it impressive doesn't mean that it isn't. It's a spectator sport though. So? if you are sophisticated watcher you can appreciate it, if not you don't. I honestly don't see where this conversation is going, zerg need to be nerfed because injects aren't fun to watch for people who don't understand the game? I didn't say I didn't understand the importance of spot on injects, I'm saying it doesn't make the games better to watch. It's like saying boxing is made more impressive because I know the boxers are really good at skipping a rope. It's not even remotely like that, it would be like someone who understands how important footwork is in boxing, not just watching for big ass haymaker. The problem with injects is that they're technically very simple to excel at. You just have to hit V every 40 seconds on the dot. Now, this isn't easy by any means, but once someone perfects it, it's the same every game. Battle micro is far more dynamic and changes from game to game. Exactly this, zerg seems to have no flash or pazzaz to their engagements aside from the occasional ling surround or magic box, but they arent hard in itself, roaches need some sort of blink equivalent, would make games with zerg in infintely more fun to watch, imagine roach vs stalker blink wars xD
Once again. Somebody doesn't play Zerg. Try hitting injects, spreading creep, moving your ling-baneling army around the map, while making sure your mutas don't derp off and go attack a group of marines, and then tell me how easy Zerg is to play.
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EPT
