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On July 22 2012 08:39 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 08:38 forsooth wrote:On July 22 2012 08:34 sAsImre wrote:On July 22 2012 08:32 Gosi wrote:On July 22 2012 08:32 sAsImre wrote:On July 22 2012 08:30 CosmicSpiral wrote: Why are people saying mech is bad? Ryung played that build in a sloppy manner. He didn't even macro properly.
I hate to admit this, but TheBest has shown me the most impressive mech play post-patch. He never gave up on the style and really refined it. the problem with make TvZ is that you give up lots of mobility for just the ability to kill drones quicker. You're not stronger in fights, you still cannont push midgame, hell you cannot drop. The only other advantage is that it's easier to turtle into sky terran. So it could be good on Metropolis ie. Marines are simply too good. Siege Tanks are simply too bad. :& They're ok, if they were that bad everyone'd be playing pure bio. You simply cannot mass them since they're way too many ways to deal with it. They complement marines quite well and are good vs ultra/ling/infest. The only thing Zerg has that handles tanks outright is brood lords, which are the hardest of hard counters, even moreso than immortals. Were it not for the broodling-based attack, high tank counts at all stages in the game would be not only possible but probably common. SC2 tanks may suck compared to their BW counterparts (I'd love to see a big damage buff btw) but in high numbers they're still impressive. drop + roach destroy lower tank counts in the midgame. Like really hard that's the reason the opening is thor/hellion/banshee. If you're going mech, sure. But against marine/tank? Not really.
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I love watching mutaling :D
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United States15275 Posts
On July 22 2012 08:36 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 08:35 CosmicSpiral wrote:On July 22 2012 08:32 sAsImre wrote:On July 22 2012 08:30 CosmicSpiral wrote: Why are people saying mech is bad? Ryung played that build in a sloppy manner. He didn't even macro properly.
I hate to admit this, but TheBest has shown me the most impressive mech play post-patch. He never gave up on the style and really refined it. the problem with make TvZ is that you give up lots of mobility for just the ability to kill drones quicker. You're not stronger in fights, you still cannont push midgame, hell you cannot drop. The only other advantage is that it's easier to turtle into sky terran. So it could be good on Metropolis ie. Marines are simply too good. Falsest thing I've ever read in this thread. That's the entire reason you go mech in the first place. You cannot fight Z t2 with mech since he just rush hive because roaches are too good. So you've a weaker army than the Z in a straight up fight before ultra lategame. Just watch symbol crushing every mech player either by dropping 200/200 roaches or rushing hive to see that you're wrong.
Like mech players can't do hellion drops (which Mvp did at his peak) or defend adequately against roach harassment (which Mvp did at his peak too). The fact is nobody has worked that hard at making mech viable since the BFH nerf, so mech is largely stuck at summer/fall 2011 standards.
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On July 22 2012 08:41 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 08:39 sAsImre wrote:On July 22 2012 08:38 forsooth wrote:On July 22 2012 08:34 sAsImre wrote:On July 22 2012 08:32 Gosi wrote:On July 22 2012 08:32 sAsImre wrote:On July 22 2012 08:30 CosmicSpiral wrote: Why are people saying mech is bad? Ryung played that build in a sloppy manner. He didn't even macro properly.
I hate to admit this, but TheBest has shown me the most impressive mech play post-patch. He never gave up on the style and really refined it. the problem with make TvZ is that you give up lots of mobility for just the ability to kill drones quicker. You're not stronger in fights, you still cannont push midgame, hell you cannot drop. The only other advantage is that it's easier to turtle into sky terran. So it could be good on Metropolis ie. Marines are simply too good. Siege Tanks are simply too bad. :& They're ok, if they were that bad everyone'd be playing pure bio. You simply cannot mass them since they're way too many ways to deal with it. They complement marines quite well and are good vs ultra/ling/infest. The only thing Zerg has that handles tanks outright is brood lords, which are the hardest of hard counters, even moreso than immortals. Were it not for the broodling-based attack, high tank counts at all stages in the game would be not only possible but probably common. SC2 tanks may suck compared to their BW counterparts (I'd love to see a big damage buff btw) but in high numbers they're still impressive. drop + roach destroy lower tank counts in the midgame. Like really hard that's the reason the opening is thor/hellion/banshee. If you're going mech, sure. But against marine/tank? Not really.
that's the all point of those 14min pushes with 6-10 tanks and 2/2. But i'd not call it a mass, but if you consider it that way i totally agree with you.
On July 22 2012 08:42 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 08:36 sAsImre wrote:On July 22 2012 08:35 CosmicSpiral wrote:On July 22 2012 08:32 sAsImre wrote:On July 22 2012 08:30 CosmicSpiral wrote: Why are people saying mech is bad? Ryung played that build in a sloppy manner. He didn't even macro properly.
I hate to admit this, but TheBest has shown me the most impressive mech play post-patch. He never gave up on the style and really refined it. the problem with make TvZ is that you give up lots of mobility for just the ability to kill drones quicker. You're not stronger in fights, you still cannont push midgame, hell you cannot drop. The only other advantage is that it's easier to turtle into sky terran. So it could be good on Metropolis ie. Marines are simply too good. Falsest thing I've ever read in this thread. That's the entire reason you go mech in the first place. You cannot fight Z t2 with mech since he just rush hive because roaches are too good. So you've a weaker army than the Z in a straight up fight before ultra lategame. Just watch symbol crushing every mech player either by dropping 200/200 roaches or rushing hive to see that you're wrong. Like mech players can't do hellion drops (which Mvp did at his peak) or defend adequately against roach harassment (which Mvp did at his peak too). The fact is nobody has worked that hard at making mech viable since the BFH nerf, so mech is largely stuck at summer/fall 2011 standards.
You don't know what you're talking about. Go watch some Symbol/any TSL zerg play vs mech to see why drops are good.
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On July 22 2012 08:39 JazzJackrabbit wrote: lol everything Mr. Bitter says Apollo just shoots it down.
I feel Mr. Bitter's game knowledge has really stagnated since 12 weeks with the pros finished over a year ago. He's more of a caster for humour than for zerg analysis now.
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Stephano making Mutas? Is this real life?
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So that's the supply block Stephano was talking about. :D
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ahhh, the 2011 Stephano style reemerges
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wow such a small army by ryung
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United States12607 Posts
dApollo really knows how to create tension...
great games here !!
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On July 22 2012 08:43 aznball123 wrote: wow such a small army by ryung
Exactly my thought.
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Where's all of Ryung's stuff? that didn't look like a 160 supply army at all.
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On July 22 2012 08:43 aznball123 wrote: wow such a small army by ryung
Now we know Stephano can play mutaling style too haha
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United States97276 Posts
well ryung is in deep shit now
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Oh damn here it comes again..
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Ryung scratching the back of his head, with good reason
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Stephano with a huge lead now. If he holds on he'll face only Protoss on this side of the bracket, NASL rematch with Hero will be interesting
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
most absurd timing by Stephano, hitting seconds before upgrades.
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On July 22 2012 08:43 aznball123 wrote: wow such a small army by ryung
ya he was 160 supply but only had like 70 in the middle...
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