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On July 22 2012 01:18 GaiusBaltar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 00:59 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:53 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:44 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:37 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:24 Chicane wrote:On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote:
Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first. Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4871777/Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0. This way it's perfectly okay, imo. For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair. It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is. I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me. Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players. I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable. What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part. Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me.
Why do foreigners get seeds in Code S? Because GOM needs them for more foreign viewers. Same principle - larger market, more privilege for its representatives.
But seriously, there is inherent unfairness in any area-based system of competitions. The only truly fair world competition would be to have all players from the world put against each other in one mega-huge tournament. Which is never possible. (it would also result in 99% Koreans from Ro128 on)
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On July 22 2012 01:26 Uracil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 01:18 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:59 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:53 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:44 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:37 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:24 Chicane wrote:On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote:
Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first. Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4871777/Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0. This way it's perfectly okay, imo. For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair. It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is. I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me. Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players. I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable. What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part. Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me. They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension.
Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it.
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Oh god why did I go for a run. I missed WhiteRa qualifying! Good job WhiteRa!!! :D <3
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Oh no, Whitera...
On July 22 2012 01:31 GaiusBaltar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 01:26 Uracil wrote:On July 22 2012 01:18 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:59 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:53 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:44 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:37 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:24 Chicane wrote:On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote:
Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first. Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4871777/Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0. This way it's perfectly okay, imo. For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair. It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is. I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me. Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players. I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable. What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part. Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me. They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension. Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it. The point is, casuals will watch the Grandfinals of the World Tournament - moreso than any other tournaments. If they notice a fellow countryman in there, they'd get more interested in the whole thing, and ultimately the game. 
P.S. Just out of interest, what kind of system do you think would be more fair?
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Ahh WhiteRa played sloppy, and now is trying to take risks to try to get back. Worth a shot but it looks like Bly will take this.
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On July 22 2012 01:39 figq wrote:Oh no, Whitera... Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 01:31 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 01:26 Uracil wrote:On July 22 2012 01:18 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:59 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:53 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:44 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:37 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:24 Chicane wrote:On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote:
Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first. Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4871777/Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0. This way it's perfectly okay, imo. For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair. It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is. I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me. Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players. I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable. What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part. Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me. They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension. Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it. The point is, casuals will watch the Grandfinals of the World Tournament - moreso than any other tournaments. If they notice a fellow countryman in there, they'd get more interested in the whole thing, and ultimately the game. P.S. Just out of interest, what kind of system do you think would be more fair?
It would obviously be fair if every national champion would get a direct seed to the World Championship or alternatively none of them. That would be 29 players though, so I guess they would have to bump the World Championship up to 64 players instead of 32.
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On July 22 2012 01:50 GaiusBaltar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 01:39 figq wrote:Oh no, Whitera... On July 22 2012 01:31 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 01:26 Uracil wrote:On July 22 2012 01:18 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:59 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:53 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:44 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:37 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:24 Chicane wrote:
[quote]
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4871777/Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0. This way it's perfectly okay, imo. For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair. It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is. I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me. Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players. I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable. What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part. Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me. They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension. Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it. The point is, casuals will watch the Grandfinals of the World Tournament - moreso than any other tournaments. If they notice a fellow countryman in there, they'd get more interested in the whole thing, and ultimately the game. P.S. Just out of interest, what kind of system do you think would be more fair? It would obviously be fair if every national champion would get a direct seed to the World Championship or alternatively none of them. That would be 29 players though, so I guess they would have to bump the World Championship up to 64 players instead of 32. That's not fair though - just because obviously some countries have a lot more great players than others.
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Come on WhiteRa! He looks like he may be able to bring this into the second BO3!!!
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Looks like Bly is feeling the pressure while white_ra keeps cool, as always.
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On July 22 2012 01:58 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 01:50 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 01:39 figq wrote:Oh no, Whitera... On July 22 2012 01:31 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 01:26 Uracil wrote:On July 22 2012 01:18 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:59 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:53 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:44 figq wrote:This way it's perfectly okay, imo. For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair. It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is. I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me. Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players. I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable. What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part. Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me. They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension. Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it. The point is, casuals will watch the Grandfinals of the World Tournament - moreso than any other tournaments. If they notice a fellow countryman in there, they'd get more interested in the whole thing, and ultimately the game. P.S. Just out of interest, what kind of system do you think would be more fair? It would obviously be fair if every national champion would get a direct seed to the World Championship or alternatively none of them. That would be 29 players though, so I guess they would have to bump the World Championship up to 64 players instead of 32. That's not fair though - just because obviously some countries have a lot more great players than others.
There can only be one champion though. And you could still have different amounts of seeds from the nationals to the continentals. I just think being the national champion should mean more than more money and "bragging rights", getting a direct seed to the World Championship would provide that.
Edit: Fuck Yeah WhiteRa.
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I am so happy for Whitera 
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On July 22 2012 02:11 luke3920 wrote:I am so happy for Whitera
Same, talk about an epic finals!
Either way this goes White-Ra has delivered some entertainment!
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Whitera so confident. Gl in the next Bo3!
On July 22 2012 02:11 GaiusBaltar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 01:58 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 01:50 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 01:39 figq wrote:Oh no, Whitera... On July 22 2012 01:31 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 01:26 Uracil wrote:On July 22 2012 01:18 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:59 figq wrote:On July 22 2012 00:53 GaiusBaltar wrote:On July 22 2012 00:44 figq wrote:
[quote]
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me. Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players. I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable. What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part. Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me. They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension. Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it. The point is, casuals will watch the Grandfinals of the World Tournament - moreso than any other tournaments. If they notice a fellow countryman in there, they'd get more interested in the whole thing, and ultimately the game. P.S. Just out of interest, what kind of system do you think would be more fair? It would obviously be fair if every national champion would get a direct seed to the World Championship or alternatively none of them. That would be 29 players though, so I guess they would have to bump the World Championship up to 64 players instead of 32. That's not fair though - just because obviously some countries have a lot more great players than others. There can only be one champion though. And you could still have different amounts of seeds from the nationals to the continentals. I just think being the national champion should mean more than more money and "bragging rights", getting a direct seed to the World Championship would provide that. Tbh, I was mostly playing devil's advocate; I see your point. I guess Blizzard wants the Continental Finals to also be greatly appreciated - which should happen, since some countries will have to fight it through there to even reach World Finals.
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this look like special tactic!
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ONE MORE WHITE-RA, JUST ONE MORE!!!!
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Only White-Ra could beat burrow with gateway units and no detection.
+ Show Spoiler +Or Bly screwing up big time lol
Final final game!!!
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This is crazy. Do it WhiteRa!
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Really loving HasuObs as a commentator ^^
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EPT
