This thread will be updated with other information between now and the event taking place, so make sure to check back.
SC2 WCS Russian Federation & Ukraine Nationals 21st - 22nd of July 2012 On July 21st and 22nd a total of 24 players will meet at CyberSports Arena in Kiev. The Russian Federation & Ukraine Nationals will determine the National Champions of Russia and Ukraine as well as their participants for the Europe Finals, which will be the Ukrainian champion and Russias Top 3. Russias Champion is also guaranteed a spot in the Global Finals in Asia later this year.
1st Place - 2,000 US-Dollar 2nd Place - 1,250 US-Dollar 3rd Place - 600 US-Dollar 4th Place - 350 US-Dollar 5th-8th Place - 200 US-Dollar
Russian Federation Prize Pool Breakdown:
$15,000 TOTAL
1st Place - 6,000 US-Dollar 2nd Place - 3,000 US-Dollar 3rd Place - 1,350 US-Dollar 4th Place - 900 US-Dollar 5th-8th Place - 450 US-Dollar 9th-16th Place - 250 US-Dollar
Ukrainian Participating Players: 2 spots for Europe Final
Bly White UkraineStar Fraer White-Ra Strelok Kas sda
Russian Federation Participating Players: 3 spots for Europe Final
Russian stream will be provided at SC2tv.ru by Adolf, Alex007, kaby and Olsior.
Venue Information and Address
Cybersports Arena in Kiev CyberSport Arena is located in Ukraine's capital and is considered one of the most advanced gaming clubs in Europe. Located in the central district of the city it includes a shop for gamers, a gaming hall equipped with 200 super-modern computers on the basis of Intel Core i5 processors, a sports bar and its highlight a spectator hall for 150 visitors with all necessary television equipment for the organization of live broadcasts.
I'm very happy that we have a good distribution of races for this : ) whilst i've enjoyed the last WCSs, there hasn't been too much Terran presence, so it's nice to see that we'll get some good Terran games and perhaps even a TvT! (SHOCK!)
Looks good for Ukraine, I'm expecting Kas vs fraer in the finals again.
Russian brackets are ridiculously teamkill-heavy, three VP players in the upper half, five RoX.KIS players in the bottom half of the bracket. Overall, the upper half looks a bit easier, the other one is really, really stacked,
Why is the tournament for Ukraine so small? 8 players, $5k, and only 2 seeds? All those numbers should be at least doubled. Are there just not a lot of Ukrainian starcraft players and is it just some weird anomoly that the ones that do play happen to be really good? Or what is the reasoning here?
Well, for Ukraine I predict 2 of Fraer, Kas, Strelok, and White-Ra are gonna take it, but really all 4 deserve to be at the European Championships. Real shame.
For Russia, I think Slivko will win, and the other two seeds will go to maybe Titan and Happy.
Thankfully these WCS seedings make sense with Kas/fraer and Happy/TitaN both seperated with slivko/Pomi as their likely semi final opponents. I remember seeing Ret-Grubby meet one another before the winner's final.
Surprised that there is no real schedule up yet though; hope they avoid major clashes with MLG Arena, would make for a sick weekend of starcraft.
Looks good for Ukraine, I'm expecting Kas vs fraer in the finals again.
Russian brackets are ridiculously teamkill-heavy, three VP players in the upper half, five RoX.KIS players in the bottom half of the bracket. Overall, the upper half looks a bit easier, the other one is really, really stacked,
Kinda glad that WhiteRa doesn't have one of the superstars in his opening match, unlike Fraer and Bly, where Fraer should come out ahead... Still, wish all the Ukranians could qualify haha.
Ukraine got juked but cant really complain when blizzard is running such an amazing esports tournament world wide helping all communities to make it all seem way more real then in the past~
Neytpoh, haha. Long time since I saw that nickname, former wc3 player right? Nice to see Abver there as well, he wasn't far behind Happy in wc3 at times.
On July 21 2012 17:42 OKMarius wrote: Neytpoh, haha. Long time since I saw that nickname, former wc3 player right? Nice to see Abver there as well, he wasn't far behind Happy in wc3 at times.
yeah he was an elf. Roll was a decent wc3 player as well. Russia has a lot of talented rts-gamers who we haven't really seen in sc2 yet.
The casters just said that sda is only 14 years old and is in grandmasters. :o
On July 21 2012 17:57 Benjamin99 wrote: Gonna be interesting to see:D Im actually expecting the eastern Europeans and Russia to dominate the foreign scene in 6-12 months.
Some very great players looking forward to see who will be Russian/Ukraine champion
Anyone know why Dimaga isnt here?
Dimaga is getting married this weekend, I think. He couldn't miss that!
Wow, crazy stuff. Fraer getting of a huge vortex on all of Bly's BL's, but Bly counters by NP'ing the Mothership and vortexing Fraer's army before the archons can get into the first vortex.
On July 21 2012 17:57 Benjamin99 wrote: Gonna be interesting to see:D Im actually expecting the eastern Europeans and Russia to dominate the foreign scene in 6-12 months.
Some very great players looking forward to see who will be Russian/Ukraine champion
Anyone know why Dimaga isnt here?
Dimaga is getting married this weekend, I think. He couldn't miss that!
On July 21 2012 17:57 Benjamin99 wrote: Gonna be interesting to see:D Im actually expecting the eastern Europeans and Russia to dominate the foreign scene in 6-12 months.
Some very great players looking forward to see who will be Russian/Ukraine champion
Anyone know why Dimaga isnt here?
Dimaga is getting married this weekend, I think. He couldn't miss that!
I believe his friend is getting married, not him.
Oh shit! Still, props to him for putting family/friends first and missing out on such a big event.
On July 21 2012 20:16 Eufouria wrote: Ukrainian Sjow.
I just switched on though, how did Fraer get cheesed out?
14 drone speedling all-in. Fraer moved out with a zealot to clear the tower and left his door open. He tried to block it off but the lings just killed it and ran in. Just a really unlucky timing on the zealot move out.
On July 21 2012 20:16 Eufouria wrote: Ukrainian Sjow.
I just switched on though, how did Fraer get cheesed out?
14 or fifteen drone pure speedling all-in.
Sent the zealot out, got it killed, tried to wall off with a gateway at the last second, lings killed it and streamed in, he had nothing ready to block. GG
On July 21 2012 20:30 figq wrote: Bratok didn't make it to the nationals of Russia? seems didn't participate in any qualifiers of Russia. Probably something like the Dimaga case.
BratOk played in six or seven out of eight qualifiers and failed to qualify in any of them.
On July 21 2012 20:30 figq wrote: Bratok didn't make it to the nationals of Russia? seems didn't participate in any qualifiers of Russia. Probably something like the Dimaga case.
BratOk played in six or seven out of eight qualifiers and failed to qualify in any of them.
Under what nickname? I searched all the qualifiers and there was no one with his ID. Also, too bad.
edit: Ah, saw it now. The searching was not actually going through the bracket. Thanks.
On July 21 2012 20:30 figq wrote: Bratok didn't make it to the nationals of Russia? seems didn't participate in any qualifiers of Russia. Probably something like the Dimaga case.
BratOk played in six or seven out of eight qualifiers and failed to qualify in any of them.
Under what nickname? I searched all the qualifiers and there was no one with his ID. Also, too bad.
Looked it up, Empire.BratOK, but it only shows "Empire.Bra.." on the ESL site.
On July 21 2012 21:30 Exactable wrote: I don't understand chargelot archon when he see he is going like 12 minute broodlords. Why not blink stalkers
When you think about it, going for Broodlords so early especially with much low econ means you either have a low BL count or a small supporting army. WhiteRa was banking on crushing the ground army and then warping in Stalkers to finish off the exposed Broods.
It did feel like he got stuck in his tech though. Blink Stalkers and HT would've definitely been a more ideal composition and would not have required much additional investment.
On July 21 2012 21:30 Exactable wrote: I don't understand chargelot archon when he see he is going like 12 minute broodlords. Why not blink stalkers
yea he could have just killed him in the mainbase with the 20 blink stalkers + warp prism at 11:30 / 12:00 or something even with the 5 spines in the base all he had was 30 speedlings and 4 infestors with 1 fungal each.
On July 21 2012 21:30 Exactable wrote: I don't understand chargelot archon when he see he is going like 12 minute broodlords. Why not blink stalkers
When you think about it, going for Broodlords so early especially with much low econ means you either have a low BL count or a small supporting army. WhiteRa was banking on crushing the ground army and then warping in Stalkers to finish off the exposed Broods.
Ra played it great but he should've had a clear focus on going for a sneaky survival mode instead of trying to kill the broods.
Right now we're watching an horrible player fighting evenly with the best terran player living in Europe at the moment. Can't think of anything ukrainestar could have done worse.
On July 21 2012 22:02 aTnClouD wrote: Right now we're watching an horrible player fighting evenly with the best terran player living in Europe at the moment. Can't think of anything ukrainestar could have done worse.
Fighting evenly? Kas was in total control the hole time Cloud. And he even slipped up his normally imba macro
On July 21 2012 22:02 aTnClouD wrote: Right now we're watching an horrible player fighting evenly with the best terran player living in Europe at the moment. Can't think of anything ukrainestar could have done worse.
Takes a long time to finish a zerg off ^^ Kas always had that because of his infinite economy and much more cost efficient trades.
Would have been heartbreaking to somehow lose to a counter attack when he was down for supply for a short moment there.
On July 21 2012 22:02 aTnClouD wrote: Right now we're watching an horrible player fighting evenly with the best terran player living in Europe at the moment. Can't think of anything ukrainestar could have done worse.
Fighting evenly? Kas was in total control the hole time Cloud. And he even slipped up his normally imba macro
It was fucking close. Any other grandmaster zerg would have won that game easily. The fact that such a bad player is so far in the ukrainian tournament amazes me.
On July 21 2012 22:02 aTnClouD wrote: Right now we're watching an horrible player fighting evenly with the best terran player living in Europe at the moment. Can't think of anything ukrainestar could have done worse.
well he clumped up 2-3 times and got fungaled really badly, but you are obv right all the zerg did was overdrone¬ protect his bases + building a bad army composition + a-move.
White-Ra is great and all, but I can't help but root for Kas. So many surprises already, but it would be really sad if not even Kas made it to WCS Europe.
On July 21 2012 22:51 StarVe wrote: White-Ra is great and all, but I can't help but root for Kas. So many surprises already, but it would be really sad if not even Kas made it to WCS Europe.
So hard to decide who to root for i want all 4 of them to win
Urkaine basicaly has no hope now to be represented in the WOlrd finals. Only Kas and Fraer have been showing good enough game to make it through Europe.
On July 21 2012 22:02 aTnClouD wrote: Right now we're watching an horrible player fighting evenly with the best terran player living in Europe at the moment. Can't think of anything ukrainestar could have done worse.
Kas didnt play his best it has to be said, and he still never looked like losing.
HOLY SHIT I JUST WOKE UP AND MAYBE IT'S THE REMNANTS OF TOO MANY JAJER BOMBS LAST NIGHT OR MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THIS IS JUST WAY TOO GOD DAMN EXCITING BUT YOU'RE TELLING ME WHITE RA IS STILL IN THIS!? FUCK YEAH!!!!! SPECIAL TACTICS!!!!!
Ahem... Sorry about that guys. I admit it, I get REALLY excited when I see White-Ra doing well at an event. Talk about an e-sports legend.
Sigh... Kinda wish all four of the top Ukranians could advance. Poor Kas... Least he's in TSL4 though.
On July 21 2012 23:59 wildstyle1337 wrote: Can someone tell me why Socke, Stephano, Comm advanced to world championship? Are Germany, France, China and Russia better than other countries ?
Bigger + more incentive for Blizzard to have representetives from these countries (Germany, Russia, China). The best foreigner, brings a ton of viewers, also a very big country (Stephano/France).
On July 21 2012 23:59 wildstyle1337 wrote: Can someone tell me why Socke, Stephano, Comm advanced to world championship? Are Germany, France, China and Russia better than other countries ?
On July 21 2012 23:59 wildstyle1337 wrote: Can someone tell me why Socke, Stephano, Comm advanced to world championship? Are Germany, France, China and Russia better than other countries ?
Bigger + more incentive for Blizzard to have representetives from these countries (Germany, Russia, China). The best foreigner, brings a ton of viewers, also a very big country (Stephano/France).
for me it is not fair... if they are so good they should proof it in european championship, and china ok they host final
On July 21 2012 23:59 wildstyle1337 wrote: Can someone tell me why Socke, Stephano, Comm advanced to world championship? Are Germany, France, China and Russia better than other countries ?
Bigger + more incentive for Blizzard to have representetives from these countries (Germany, Russia, China). The best foreigner, brings a ton of viewers, also a very big country (Stephano/France).
Is there any information on this? Why are those players picked?
Also liquipedia states there are going to be 32 entrants. Given the South American Championship has only gotten 3...will the remaining entries be chosen "randomly" or will the other Championships be granted more?
On July 21 2012 23:59 wildstyle1337 wrote: Can someone tell me why Socke, Stephano, Comm advanced to world championship? Are Germany, France, China and Russia better than other countries ?
Bigger + more incentive for Blizzard to have representetives from these countries (Germany, Russia, China). The best foreigner, brings a ton of viewers, also a very big country (Stephano/France).
Is there any information on this? Why are those players picked?
Also liquipedia states there are going to be 32 entrants. Given the South American Championship has only gotten 3...will the remaining entries be chosen "randomly" or will the other Championships be granted more?
The said on stream that the spots were allocated based on user activity from the area (on the ladder) and some consideration to skill as well.
Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
On July 22 2012 00:22 Hemula wrote: Bly said that White-Ra was training a lot recently (the reason why he was not streaming) and he is in a really good form right now.
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
It's about number of players, not number of Pro-gamers. So countries with bigger populations, or at least bigger sales of SC2 are given the direct seeds. That's my understanding at least. This is also the first time that Blizzard are running this WCS and so might change things in the future.
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players.
I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable.
What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part.
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
It's about number of players, not number of Pro-gamers. So countries with bigger populations, or at least bigger sales of SC2 are given the direct seeds. That's my understanding at least. This is also the first time that Blizzard are running this WCS and so might change things in the future.
sweeden has more sc2 players ( non pro ) then russia . most russians wont pay 50 euro for a game when they can get esports for free (mobas)
On July 22 2012 01:00 Mellon wrote: White-ra <3 What a fucking role-modell! First thing he does after games is giving compliments to his previous opponents.
maybe we should create something like an whitera trophy for great sportmanship
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players.
I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable.
What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part.
Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me.
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players.
I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable.
What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part.
Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me.
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players.
I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable.
What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part.
Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me.
They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension.
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players.
I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable.
What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part.
Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me.
Why do foreigners get seeds in Code S? Because GOM needs them for more foreign viewers. Same principle - larger market, more privilege for its representatives.
But seriously, there is inherent unfairness in any area-based system of competitions. The only truly fair world competition would be to have all players from the world put against each other in one mega-huge tournament. Which is never possible. (it would also result in 99% Koreans from Ro128 on)
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players.
I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable.
What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part.
Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me.
They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension.
Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it.
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players.
I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable.
What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part.
Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me.
They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension.
Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it.
The point is, casuals will watch the Grandfinals of the World Tournament - moreso than any other tournaments. If they notice a fellow countryman in there, they'd get more interested in the whole thing, and ultimately the game.
P.S. Just out of interest, what kind of system do you think would be more fair?
On July 22 2012 00:22 GaiusBaltar wrote: Personally I think it's weird to have some national champions automatically qualify for the World Championship while others have to go through the continental finals first.
Where exactly can this information be found? That does sound strange if it is true.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players.
I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable.
What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part.
Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me.
They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension.
Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it.
The point is, casuals will watch the Grandfinals of the World Tournament - moreso than any other tournaments. If they notice a fellow countryman in there, they'd get more interested in the whole thing, and ultimately the game.
P.S. Just out of interest, what kind of system do you think would be more fair?
It would obviously be fair if every national champion would get a direct seed to the World Championship or alternatively none of them. That would be 29 players though, so I guess they would have to bump the World Championship up to 64 players instead of 32.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players.
I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable.
What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part.
Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me.
They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension.
Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it.
The point is, casuals will watch the Grandfinals of the World Tournament - moreso than any other tournaments. If they notice a fellow countryman in there, they'd get more interested in the whole thing, and ultimately the game.
P.S. Just out of interest, what kind of system do you think would be more fair?
It would obviously be fair if every national champion would get a direct seed to the World Championship or alternatively none of them. That would be 29 players though, so I guess they would have to bump the World Championship up to 64 players instead of 32.
That's not fair though - just because obviously some countries have a lot more great players than others.
Some have "Direct Seed to Global Finals: X", some don't. Russia has 1, Ukraine 0.
This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players.
I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable.
What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part.
Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me.
They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension.
Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it.
The point is, casuals will watch the Grandfinals of the World Tournament - moreso than any other tournaments. If they notice a fellow countryman in there, they'd get more interested in the whole thing, and ultimately the game.
P.S. Just out of interest, what kind of system do you think would be more fair?
It would obviously be fair if every national champion would get a direct seed to the World Championship or alternatively none of them. That would be 29 players though, so I guess they would have to bump the World Championship up to 64 players instead of 32.
That's not fair though - just because obviously some countries have a lot more great players than others.
There can only be one champion though. And you could still have different amounts of seeds from the nationals to the continentals. I just think being the national champion should mean more than more money and "bragging rights", getting a direct seed to the World Championship would provide that.
On July 22 2012 01:39 figq wrote: Oh no, Whitera...
On July 22 2012 01:31 GaiusBaltar wrote:
On July 22 2012 01:26 Uracil wrote:
On July 22 2012 01:18 GaiusBaltar wrote:
On July 22 2012 00:59 figq wrote:
On July 22 2012 00:53 GaiusBaltar wrote:
On July 22 2012 00:44 figq wrote: [quote] This way it's perfectly okay, imo.
For example, France has large enough player base and good enough players (Stephano etc) that they grant 1 direct slot to world finals - but it's given in advance, not because Stephano wins the event; whoever wins it, gets it. That's fair.
It's inevitable when organizing area-based series of tournaments that people will dispute the privileges of some areas over others, there's no exact way to formulate rules about that. I.e. Poland might be unhappy that they don't get a direct world finals slot and France does, but that's how it is.
I would argue that Ukraine has a lot more good players than France. So does Sweden. Actually Sweden arguably has the most good players out of all European countries, yet they get zero direct seeds. It all seems completely random to me.
Player base means - a large number of casual players, a large market for Blizzard; not top class players.
I'd also argue it's unfair that Germany gets 4 slots in the EU tournament, and Sweden just 3, while Ukraine just 2. Yes, such numbers seem kind of random - what objective measure do you suggest that can combine all factors important for Blizzard? There isn't one. It's inevitable.
What I find fair though, is that they don't decide post factum which players to give direct slots (like, if Stephano wins FR, they grant him direct slot); instead they've announced all slots from all tournaments in advance, they are open for grabs by everyone. If some player doesn't like his chance within those rules, he's free to not take part.
Why would you determine the number of seeds by the number of casual players who won't even make it through a qualifier? Doesn't make sense to me.
They want to advertise the next game HOTS to the viewers. And if more people play WOL in a country more people will buy the expension.
Yes, but the number of seeds has nothing to do with that. If you bought WOL and are still into Starcraft you are going to buy HotS no matter what. If you're not into Starcraft yet the number of seeds in a tournament will hardly be the deciding factor that makes you buy it.
The point is, casuals will watch the Grandfinals of the World Tournament - moreso than any other tournaments. If they notice a fellow countryman in there, they'd get more interested in the whole thing, and ultimately the game.
P.S. Just out of interest, what kind of system do you think would be more fair?
It would obviously be fair if every national champion would get a direct seed to the World Championship or alternatively none of them. That would be 29 players though, so I guess they would have to bump the World Championship up to 64 players instead of 32.
That's not fair though - just because obviously some countries have a lot more great players than others.
There can only be one champion though. And you could still have different amounts of seeds from the nationals to the continentals. I just think being the national champion should mean more than more money and "bragging rights", getting a direct seed to the World Championship would provide that.
Tbh, I was mostly playing devil's advocate; I see your point. I guess Blizzard wants the Continental Finals to also be greatly appreciated - which should happen, since some countries will have to fight it through there to even reach World Finals.
Excellent production: Good overall video (camera angles, 720+ FREE), no problems with audio. Good casting: All three casters seemed relaxed and did a good job imho.
Exciting games on a very high level, Ukraine has very good players.
Congrats to Bly, white-ra coming back from losers bracket was superb. That PvT!
On July 22 2012 03:30 Daimai wrote: Hosts were pretty... unprofessional and unorganized I feel.
But fun event overall.
Yes, they were, but it just added some charm to the event. The production quality overall was surprisingly good though, they had some interesting camera work and the idea of the live vetos is something other events should think about copying.
On July 22 2012 03:30 Daimai wrote: Hosts were pretty... unprofessional and unorganized I feel.
But fun event overall.
ESLs always had the unprofessional and unorganised feel, thats what made MrBitter and Rotterdam so fucking great for them, the way these 2 guys just didn't give a shit and were there to cast the game they want to cast, it also made for a really relaxed and casual atmosphere that they invited the viewer into
I don't entirely understand the WCS format. I get the tiered system, where the nationals feed into the 5 major region championships which then feeds into the world finals, but how many people advance from each country/region
The WC is supposed to be 32 players, right? So do the Asian, Oceania, European, South American, and North American regions get a different number of top finishers through? Like top 7/7/6/6/6 or something? And how many people qualify into each region's finals?
On July 22 2012 03:29 xpldngmn wrote: Ukrainian finals were fantastic.
Excellent production: Good overall video (camera angles, 720+ FREE), no problems with audio. Good casting: All three casters seemed relaxed and did a good job imho.
Exciting games on a very high level, Ukraine has very good players.
Congrats to Bly, white-ra coming back from losers bracket was superb. That PvT!
I agree with everything you wrote. Good production, exciting games and very good casting!
On July 22 2012 03:56 Scribble wrote: I don't entirely understand the WCS format. I get the tiered system, where the nationals feed into the 5 major region championships which then feeds into the world finals, but how many people advance from each country/region
The WC is supposed to be 32 players, right? So do the Asian, Oceania, European, South American, and North American regions get a different number of top finishers through? Like top 7/7/6/6/6 or something? And how many people qualify into each region's finals?
We had a rather long discussion about this over the last few pages, I also linked a thingy from Blizzard. So, go read that, I guess. Basically it depends on what Blizzard decided on a country to country basis, based on somewhat unclear criteria.
Big congratulations to White-Ra and Bly, but it is really really shitty that Strelok, Kas, and Fraer will not be playing the European Championship. Ukraine needed 4 seed spots!
Anyway, this thread is also about the Russian Nationals too,ya know! Looking at the brackets, this one's going more predictably, Happy, Titan, and Slivko all in the Winner's semi's. gogogo!
Just out of interest, what kind of system do you think would be more fair?
What I find really frustrating about the WCS is that from my perspective, they almost have it right. I think they just need to make some minor changes to the number of seeds and size of tournaments for some national/continental tournaments.
For example:
1. No direct seeds into the world championship from nationals.
2. Tweaking of the size of some national tournaments. For example, Ukraine, Sweden, Combined Europe tournaments need at least 1 more seed into the European Continentals. UK, Germany, and France should have one less seed. Mexico has too many seeds into the NA Continental, China and Taiwan have way too many seeds into the Asian Continental, while Korea should have way more.
3. The relative size of the Continental Championships should be tweaked, as in the South American and North American tournaments are too big (too many players, too many seeds into the World Championships). I think if S. America was folded into the NA tournament to make one Combined Americas Continentals, that would be about right.
Oceania Continental tournament is superfluous, should've been folded into the Asian or European Continentals. Asian Continental is the most wonky, because to even say "Asian Continental" is basically saying "Korean National (plus Sen and a couple of Chinese players)". I think of all the Continental Championships, the European one looks the most right, mostly due to the fact that out of all the continents Europe is the only one that has a good spread of top tier players in many different countries.
Someone said earlier that if the idea of Nationals and Continentals were to be removed, a 128 player true World Championship tournament would be 99% Korean players. I don't think that's true. Stack up the skill level and playerbase of South Korea against all the other countries combined, while not 50/50, I would say is closer to 60/40. Through the use of Nationals and Continental tournaments, if Blizzard could organize a World Championships tournament that looks something like 50/50 Koreans/Foreigners, I think that would be right. As it is now, it looks like Blizzard has set it up that the World Championships will be closer to 2/3 Foreigner, 1/3 Koreans.
Happy played the right way against someone who has no anti drop defense (blink stalkers, HTs inside bases, etc...). Happy's execution was flawless though, losing almost no unit in most of the drops. Also I don't understand Roll unit compo. Colossus, chargelots and DTs ?? Where is the anti-air ? Even the few sentries he had were useless, he almost couldn't make any good FF. The level difference between him and Happy on this game looked really huge.
On July 22 2012 20:53 Shkudde wrote: Hasu being a boss as usual. The best casting player in the world together with Grubby. Team EG take note on how it's done!
Agree, love how Hasu casts, and it's really nice to listen to good player's game analysis!
On July 22 2012 20:53 Shkudde wrote: Hasu being a boss as usual. The best casting player in the world together with Grubby. Team EG take note on how it's done!
Agree, love how Hasu casts, and it's really nice to listen to good player's game analysis!
Also agree, Hasu is awesome. Time for some excitement now, and finally a ZvZ!
On July 22 2012 20:53 Shkudde wrote: Hasu being a boss as usual. The best casting player in the world together with Grubby. Team EG take note on how it's done!
Completely agree, love casting with Hasu, have said it for ages that he's my favorite player caster together with Demuslim, love listening and casting with them
Happy titan is next btw guys sorry ;P hasu and me will cast, after that Kaelaris and Hasu for the zvz, then I'll cast the loser of happy titan vs winner of zvz and then the overall final will be brought to you by Kaelaris and Hasu ^_^
On July 22 2012 20:53 Shkudde wrote: Hasu being a boss as usual. The best casting player in the world together with Grubby. Team EG take note on how it's done!
Completely agree, love casting with Hasu, have said it for ages that he's my favorite player caster together with Demuslim, love listening and casting with them
On July 22 2012 23:19 maybelunarox wrote: guys, what's you opinion on playing national finals in different country? like here?
There are too many problems, organizing such events in Russia, u just don't know.
I would like to see a big event in Russia, the crowd would probably be awesome.
Surely, but the main problem will always be money, our goverment does not support esports, even the russian WCG is really poorly sponsored, but thats another topic, they just don't care much. Kiev holds an awesome place like this for such events, so i don't see any problem with this. Many russians root for ukrainian players like if they were our own players, and the communities are really close, despite all the politic controversy and all that stuff...
LOL, Happy dropped 2 mules behind mineral line, stucked between building. Kills the blocking engineering bay and repairs it at the same time, when he has medivacs aka dropships! xD
final bo3, g2 on shakuras: starts of with some harassment, Titan kills 8 scvs with sentry drop, Happy kills Titans third and 30 probes (and he has his early third CC secured). Sadly it is not enough, they engage at maxed armies and Happy dies...
Happy just did not look comfortable fighting against colossus in these series.
So titan is Russian WCS champion, he certainly fought well for the title
Great weekend, had so much fun, both the Ukranian and Russian scene are so interesting ^_^ , hope you guys had fun watching, I sure had a lot of fun being here and casting with hasu and kaelaris.
On July 23 2012 01:21 AlternativeEgo wrote: Solid trio that made it through, no upsets (for good and bad). Good event this weekend. Well done, crew.
LiveZerg was supposed to actually win, he in last two weeks practice in Rox.Kis camp had by far the best record vs Slivco, Titan, Fraer . But Lan was a different story
On July 23 2012 01:21 RotterdaM wrote: Great weekend, had so much fun, both the Ukranian and Russian scene are so interesting ^_^ , hope you guys had fun watching, I sure had a lot of fun being here and casting with hasu and kaelaris.
thanks for your work guys! really enjoyed your casting this weekend
Let me say a big ThankYou to ESL for hosting and presenting their WCS events in the way it should be imo. One more to go. Proper coverage with local national flair, free HD streams, great hosts, standalone events, focus on players.
Really cool event. I enjoyed the casting a lot. Rotterdam and hasuobs are a great casting duo. Kaelaris was also good to watch. And most important I am happy that Titan won.
EPT![[image loading]](http://cs306609.userapi.com/v306609521/fa/oKJUjPmAQCM.jpg)
Bly
Fraer
Strelok
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jPCxQ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5861/41412414.jpg)
