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On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using.
You have to know what each individual hero does or is at least capable of to have some strategic grasp as well as a basic clue. (e.g. who is on what team?) Imagine watching Starcraft with no idea what the units did, all you can assume is one team shooting or attacking the other.
Give yourself time and a chance, if you learn the basics it will open up to you.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Damn those were some sick DOTA2 games, hopefully SC2 will be pretty hype too
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On June 19 2012 06:52 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:49 StarStruck wrote:On June 19 2012 06:46 Noocta wrote:On June 19 2012 06:45 Gurgl wrote:
Dota 2 is great Esports if you understand the game. Sure it's hard to understand if you've never played but so is SC2. SC2 is a bit easier to explain to people. Even a lot easier. No it isn't. I rather not dumb it down. It's actually very complex, so complex that even avid posters still say shit like, "OMG how did he win that?" or "What did I do wrong?" Lots of guys don't understand the game well at all. To explain to people who never saw it before. SC2 is two guy playing against each other building an army, and trying to kill the other guy. With only that in mind, someone can appreciate SC2. Dota is so complex to get into, it's a lot harder for people.
DotA is trying to kill the big building in his side of the map.
SC2 is killing everything the other guy has.
Trying to explain how they do that however is much harder, for both games.
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On June 19 2012 06:48 morlakaix wrote:
I don't understand how hardcore SC fans can bash dota.
I played dota for 6-7 years, and starcraft for 2-3 years.
Starcraft has way too many factors of luck, and sometimes you can lose a game PURELY based on luck because you scouted an all-in last, or you went for a macro build and someone decided to all in you. One miscontrol in SC2 can cause you to lose the game.
In dota, there isn't really a lot of luck. Winning has to do with teamwork and decision making, except the decision making is much harder because there are 4 others around you.
Even Pro starcraft players have said SC has too much of a luck factor, I don't see how the fans can't recognize that.
Simple answer: because it's hard to recognize anything if you just look at the game not knowing it. That doesn't mean it's bad obviously, but I dare say it's impossible to form an opinion of that game based on a streamed match alone. All I saw was a bunch of confusing clutter.
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On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. Simple as that. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. I'd say that a lot depends on the casters as well.
Go to any live report thread and at the end of a game read the multitude of "HOW DID HE HOLD THAT?/HOW DID HE WIN THAT?" posts.
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On June 19 2012 06:50 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:43 GreyKnight wrote:
It's always amusing to read the opposing games forums cry in bewilderment how the other game doesn't make sense and they are confused why anyone would watch it Wouldn't call it bewilderment. SC2 is very clear. A red army fighting a blue army, and the army that gets obliterated, loses. Simple as that. MOBA games like LoL and DOTA2 have heroes attacking seemingly random stuff, critters that randomly walk towards and attack towers. It's a lot less clear to non-insiders what's going on. To be honest, I never played Brood War multiplayer, but it only took me a game or three on gomtv.net to have a general idea of what's going on, and by the 20th game I had a general grasp of the build orders the players were using. I'd say that a lot depends on the casters as well.
Then go and watch 20 games of Dota? See, Dota is very clear. You kill the enemy base. In order to do that, you have to get past the enemy team. And the team that gets obliterated, loses.
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On June 19 2012 06:53 ibo422 wrote:lol.. I'm ... not suprised :p
Birkir Baldvinsson @PusHLTVorg
@Nicoasd i heard he puked all over a couch, but thats about it.
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On June 19 2012 06:53 Wunder wrote:
Damn those were some sick DOTA2 games, hopefully SC2 will be pretty hype too
Its ZvP so probably not T_T
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On June 19 2012 06:52 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:48 Asha` wrote:
Not sure whether to bother staying up for the sc2 finals or not, both players are prone to being pretty boring.
Maybe the first game and see how it goes. Seriously, show some respect towards the players at least and don't post crap like that.
In a thread where everyone is circlejerking around dota 2 and insulting groups of players and a game and a community of players, someone then brings out "show some respect and dont post crap like that" the instant someone dares to say something along the lines of "dunno if I want to watch the sc2 finals"
Classic.
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On June 19 2012 06:48 Fragile51 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:47 Sp00ly wrote:On June 19 2012 06:46 Klipsys wrote:
SC2 fans get mad when BW fans shit on SC2.
So they SC2 Fans shit on DOTA2 Fans, who then shit on LoL fans.
Who do the LoL fans shit on? Quake live.
I hope they don't fucking dare.
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On June 19 2012 06:53 ibo422 wrote:lol.. I'm ... not surprised :p
ahahaha, atta boy xD
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4713 Posts
On June 19 2012 06:52 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:47 HaXXspetten wrote:On June 19 2012 06:45 Seiniyta wrote:On June 19 2012 06:44 Tayar wrote:i would like DOTA2 better if A. I understood what was going on  B. It wasn't so fucking ugly - seriously, that's a NEW game? I think it might be the stream, Dota 2 actually looks really slick when you play it. I really like the artstyle. It's stylished cartoon graphics, just like Warcraft. It's a style, deal with it. I mean, if you're watching an Anime you're not complaining about the old-fashioned graphics, right? It's supposed to look like that. LoL graphics are more distinguishable its easier to spectate, dota 2 is kinda to dark.
I disagree, LoL graphics are stupid and it hurts the eyes, and during big battles with lots of spells being fired up you can't tell what shit is going down, I have a much easier time of distinguishing stuff in Dota 2 then in LoL.
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I wanna watch more Dota 2! Any specific website I should browse orrr?
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On June 19 2012 06:52 Viktorin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:49 LeLfe wrote:god I hate MOBA... I just find them messy and boring, alright time for some SC2  One needs to play it in order to enjoy watching it. What bothers me the most about mobas is that you know kinda early who is going to win the match. The games drag on way too long.
I thought na'vi was going to win after they picked AM. MTW just playing a near perfect team game.
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Do we switch streams from Dota2 to SC2? There isn't a DH stream on the SC side AFAIK.
E: Nevermind, just went up.
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On June 19 2012 06:53 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:51 L3g3nd_ wrote:On June 19 2012 06:48 Fragile51 wrote:On June 19 2012 06:47 Sp00ly wrote:On June 19 2012 06:46 Klipsys wrote:
SC2 fans get mad when BW fans shit on SC2.
So they SC2 Fans shit on DOTA2 Fans, who then shit on LoL fans.
Who do the LoL fans shit on? Quake live. no one shits on quake live, quake live is an insanely tough and competitive game, second most skilled esport behind BW ^ This. Seriously though, watching QL first person blows my mind, anyone who says otherwise is just...
but people who just watch first person wont understand all the shit that is going on, the rune control and movements are SO hard to do, yet these guys perfect it.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On June 19 2012 06:52 [17]Purple wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 06:52 Hassybaby wrote:On June 19 2012 06:50 Drazerk wrote:On June 19 2012 06:48 morlakaix wrote:
I don't understand how hardcore SC fans can bash dota.
I played dota for 6-7 years, and starcraft for 2-3 years.
Starcraft has way too many factors of luck, and sometimes you can lose a game PURELY based on luck because you scouted an all-in last, or you went for a macro build and someone decided to all in you. One miscontrol in SC2 can cause you to lose the game.
In dota, there isn't really a lot of luck. Winning has to do with teamwork and decision making, except the decision making is much harder because there are 4 others around you.
Even Pro starcraft players have said SC has too much of a luck factor, I don't see how the fans can't recognize that. Ogre magi CK Mord Sylla Chen
EnchantressAll those heroes are pretty luck dependant and those are just the ones from the top of my head Ok I sort of agree with the other 2, but those ones...what.... Chen's nuke is pretty random
Aww cmon, that's not anywhere near as important as the rest of his abilities in most cases.
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Really bummed out I wont get to see a NaNiwa vs Stephano finals. I have no fucking clue how NaNi threw that last game away vs DIMAGA (left to make dinner, took it for granted that he won considering how the game was looking at that point) or how Stephano suffered a 2-0 loss to MaNa who's notorious for his weak PvZ. So disappointed.
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