EPTIron Squid Group C Liveshows Schedules - Page 20
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catplanetcatplanet
3829 Posts
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Nelz
309 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:38 catplanetcatplanet wrote: So basically Life is out as well? Doe Stephano forfeit all his matches? Well, yes, even if he beats Mana and Stephano win against Jjackji ( don't count on that ), he will be out. | ||
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Dekkers
France315 Posts
-Good skill -Bad sportmanship | ||
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gds
Iceland1391 Posts
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catplanetcatplanet
3829 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:41 Nelz wrote: Well, yes, even if he beats Mana and Stephano win against Jjackji ( don't count on that ), he will be out. Actually no, if Stephano beats Jjajki and Life 2-0s Mana or if Stephano 2-0s Jjakji and Life beats Mana, life is through with MMA since mapscore is counted first | ||
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mememolly
4765 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:44 gds wrote: That's very bad especially for the tournament staff because matches against big names are the ones who gather most of the viewers->money. Players like Stephano who forfeit their matches on a regular basis at the last seconds are actually weakening the scene. But as long as there are no consequences i dont see why they would care. wait till you get the whole story before you condemn someone | ||
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gds
Iceland1391 Posts
and i'm not condemning stephano, these are all facts. | ||
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Nelz
309 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:44 catplanetcatplanet wrote: Actually no, if Stephano beats Jjajki and Life 2-0s Mana or if Stephano 2-0s Jjakji and Life beats Mana, life is through with MMA since mapscore is counted first True, my bad, but If Stephano forfeits against MMA, i don't think he won against Jjackji, we'll see tomorrow but it's pretty clear. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:51 Nelz wrote: True, my bad, but If Stephano forfeits against MMA, i don't think he won against Jjackji, we'll see tomorrow but it's pretty clear. + Show Spoiler + This is the scenario you're drawing: Stephano played vs. Jjakji fairly early in the process, lost, then looked at his loss to Life and thought, am I still going to be able to advance? To make sure, he delayed his match vs. MMA repeatedly in order to see Mana's results. Once he got the results, he decided he was out, and FF. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On April 04 2012 04:54 Azarkon wrote: + Show Spoiler + This is the scenario you're drawing: Stephano played vs. Jjakji fairly early in the process, lost, then looked at his loss to Life, thought, am I still going to be able to advance? To make sure, he delayed his match vs. MMA repeatedly in order to see Mana's results. Once he got the results, he decided he was out, and FF. That's so messed up. First ONOG, then NASL, now Iron Squid. This guy just doesn't learn. Some people just don't see beyond their own ego. I hope the mill manager boxes his ears properly this time. | ||
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Zealot Orgy
United Kingdom537 Posts
On April 04 2012 05:01 Ghanburighan wrote: That's so messed up. First ONOG, then NASL, now Iron Squid. This guy just doesn't learn. Some people just don't see beyond their own ego. I hope the mill manager boxes his ears properly this time. Forfeiting like he did at ONOG is perfectly normal and an acceptable way to behave yourself in professional competitive gaming. Only the naive, and frankly ignorant, people in this community tend to think that forfeiting is "OMG BM". It is much less respectable and honest what the organizers did, i.e saying "whatever we're just putting him 4th even if in the rules it's fine to forfeit, so we still have 2 hours of games we can show, get more views because of the drama, more money from the ads, and we'll just let the retarded community dump the shame on Stephano". The NASL games were useless once the 8 qualified players were decided. The Iron Squid games were useless just like the NASL ones. It is pretty clear why would someone want to forfeit the last match in a group stage. | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On April 04 2012 05:12 Zealot Orgy wrote: Forfeiting like he did at ONOG is perfectly normal and an acceptable way to behave yourself in professional competitive gaming. Only the naive, and frankly ignorant, people in this community tend to think that forfeiting is "OMG BM". It is much less respectable and honest what the organizers did, i.e saying "whatever we're just putting him 4th even if in the rules it's fine to forfeit, so we still have 2 hours of games we can show, get more views because of the drama, more money from the ads, and we'll just let the retarded community dump the shame on Stephano". The NASL games were useless once the 8 qualified players were decided. The Iron Squid games were useless just like the NASL ones. It is pretty clear why would someone want to forfeit the last match in a group stage. A number of NBA games are 'useless' but will still be played. | ||
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TaKemE
Denmark1045 Posts
Some tournaments like MLG and IGN have fixed this problem. | ||
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Neelia
Germany599 Posts
On April 04 2012 05:25 TaKemE wrote: Well this is going to keep happen when tournaments got games where there is nothing to win (if that is the case here). Some tournaments like MLG and IGN have fixed this problem. The game isn't pointless as far as I see. Following situation: Jjakji 2 - 0 Stephano MMA 0 - 2 Stephano Mana 0 - 2 Life means Jjakji and Life advance (as far as I see). Stephano forfeiting his match means MMA will advance 100%. Even if your out atleast play your matches if the outcome affects other people. How someone can compare this to Naniwa - Nestea is beyond me. | ||
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Dzerzhinsky
Scotland327 Posts
On April 04 2012 05:12 Zealot Orgy wrote: Forfeiting like he did at ONOG is perfectly normal and an acceptable way to behave yourself in professional competitive gaming. Only the naive, and frankly ignorant, people in this community tend to think that forfeiting is "OMG BM". It is much less respectable and honest what the organizers did, i.e saying "whatever we're just putting him 4th even if in the rules it's fine to forfeit, so we still have 2 hours of games we can show, get more views because of the drama, more money from the ads, and we'll just let the retarded community dump the shame on Stephano". The NASL games were useless once the 8 qualified players were decided. The Iron Squid games were useless just like the NASL ones. It is pretty clear why would someone want to forfeit the last match in a group stage. In no way is it acceptable professional behaviour to commit to playing X number of games in a tournament, and then refuse to play them because you don't see the point or you're too tired from committing to multiple tournaments at the same time or you just can't be bothered. It's irresponsible, dishonest and childish. You're screwing the tournament organisers who put their time, energy and money into setting up the games; you're screwing their sponsors who pledged money based on the promise that the games would be played; you're screwing your sponsors who finance you and your team on the basis that you play games and get their name out there; you're screwing your team who worked to get you these opportunities and now risk having their reputation badly damaged; and most of all you're disillussioning the fans who support all of the aforementioned group and are the reason that you can make a living playing a computer game. There are a lot of people, amateur and professional, who put a lot of work and money into making this industry work, and things like this, if it became comon practice, undermine all of it. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On April 04 2012 05:12 Zealot Orgy wrote: Forfeiting like he did at ONOG is perfectly normal and an acceptable way to behave yourself in professional competitive gaming. Only the naive, and frankly ignorant, people in this community tend to think that forfeiting is "OMG BM". It is much less respectable and honest what the organizers did, i.e saying "whatever we're just putting him 4th even if in the rules it's fine to forfeit, so we still have 2 hours of games we can show, get more views because of the drama, more money from the ads, and we'll just let the retarded community dump the shame on Stephano". The NASL games were useless once the 8 qualified players were decided. The Iron Squid games were useless just like the NASL ones. It is pretty clear why would someone want to forfeit the last match in a group stage. You are an ignorant Kid, nothing more! Forfeiting is a sign of professionalism? More like the exact opposite. In EVERY professional sports a scheduled match is gonna be played, even if it doesn't has any influence on the outcome of the tournament/league. Why? Because the broadcaster wants to have content for broadcasting. No content, no broadcast, no money, no future tournaments! It's that easy. Stephano and any other "Pro Gamer" behaving like this is truly ruining esports, because it shows a lack of maturity. Who sponsors an ignorant Kid, that only plays if it's in the right mood and gives a fuck about tournament organisation, teams and sponsors? Of course he uses his popularity here to get away without punishment. But I really hope that tournament organisators think twice before inviting him in the future! | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
This happens ALOT in group elimination: Player A has to play Player B. Player B is eliminated from the group. Player B has no reason to keep playing his best since he knows he's eliminated. Player A has to play Player C last. Player A has 2-0'd all his previous opponents. Player A has no reason to keep playing his best since he's locked as 1st in the group. Result: bad games all around. A recent incident that showcases the problem is the GOMTV Invitational. Naniwa probe rushed vs. Nestea after both were eliminated from group play. He did it because - in his own words - he was disappointed with not advancing and saw no reason to play his best after that. While players are - and have to be - held up to the standard of continuing to play their best whatever the other results from group play, as a matter of practicality, group elimination disincentivizes good play after elimination, and leaves the matter strictly to the player's own professionalism, which for eSports, isn't sufficient to prevent incidents of this nature. That said, when it does occur, the onus of repsonsibility lies with the player, not the organizer. By signing up to a tournament with group elimination, a player enters into a professional contract, and his behaviors therein reflects his professional character. However, I think it is the onus of organizers to appreciate that there are alternatives to group elimination, which when implemented, has the effect of encouraging good play. --- Monetized Group Elimination: The first of these is a simple modification of group elimination. The same format is followed, but every Bo3 the player wins provides a moderate amount of money. The financial incentive gives players reason to play after their spot in the group is locked. The downside is that this system requires extra money for the group stages, and depending on the amount alotted, does not ensure that high-earning players give a damn. Group Double Elimination: There are a number of schemes for making group elimination a seeding system instead of an elimination system. The best example is the one employed by MLG, where the group stages follow a double elimination format that seed players, based on their group standings, into the final elimination bracket of the tournament. As every group standing matters in this format, players are incentivized to play their best every match. A downside to this sytem is that the group stage matches matter less in the overall scheme of the tournament, since there is no elimination involved. Monetizing elimination bracket seeding is a way to resolve this issue, thus combining group double elimination with monetized group elimination. The other downside is that this draws a tournament out - a lot of matches have to be played, making it not ideal for time strapped tournaments. --- I think that SC 2 tournament organizers have to stop using group elimination as is in tournaments. Which solution is implemented depends on the tournament and its parameters. All in all, I think the final solution to group elimination - used by MLG - is the best solution when appropriate for the tournament's schedule, but that every solution there is preferrable to basic group elimination in SC 2. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
When was this particular game scheduled? Weren't these games played weeks ago? Has Iron Squid known about this, all this time? | ||
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