On April 04 2012 04:38 catplanetcatplanet wrote: So basically Life is out as well? Doe Stephano forfeit all his matches?
Well, yes, even if he beats Mana and Stephano win against Jjackji ( don't count on that ), he will be out.
Actually no, if Stephano beats Jjajki and Life 2-0s Mana or if Stephano 2-0s Jjakji and Life beats Mana, life is through with MMA since mapscore is counted first
True, my bad, but If Stephano forfeits against MMA, i don't think he won against Jjackji, we'll see tomorrow but it's pretty clear.
This is the scenario you're drawing: Stephano played vs. Jjakji fairly early in the process, lost, then looked at his loss to Life, thought, am I still going to be able to advance? To make sure, he delayed his match vs. MMA repeatedly in order to see Mana's results. Once he got the results, he decided he was out, and FF.
That's so messed up. First ONOG, then NASL, now Iron Squid. This guy just doesn't learn. Some people just don't see beyond their own ego. I hope the mill manager boxes his ears properly this time.
Forfeiting like he did at ONOG is perfectly normal and an acceptable way to behave yourself in professional competitive gaming. Only the naive, and frankly ignorant, people in this community tend to think that forfeiting is "OMG BM".
It is much less respectable and honest what the organizers did, i.e saying "whatever we're just putting him 4th even if in the rules it's fine to forfeit, so we still have 2 hours of games we can show, get more views because of the drama, more money from the ads, and we'll just let the retarded community dump the shame on Stephano".
The NASL games were useless once the 8 qualified players were decided.
The Iron Squid games were useless just like the NASL ones. It is pretty clear why would someone want to forfeit the last match in a group stage.
A number of NBA games are 'useless' but will still be played.
Obviously pro gamers win as much cash per games as a NBA player.
On April 04 2012 04:38 catplanetcatplanet wrote: So basically Life is out as well? Doe Stephano forfeit all his matches?
Well, yes, even if he beats Mana and Stephano win against Jjackji ( don't count on that ), he will be out.
Actually no, if Stephano beats Jjajki and Life 2-0s Mana or if Stephano 2-0s Jjakji and Life beats Mana, life is through with MMA since mapscore is counted first
True, my bad, but If Stephano forfeits against MMA, i don't think he won against Jjackji, we'll see tomorrow but it's pretty clear.
This is the scenario you're drawing: Stephano played vs. Jjakji fairly early in the process, lost, then looked at his loss to Life, thought, am I still going to be able to advance? To make sure, he delayed his match vs. MMA repeatedly in order to see Mana's results. Once he got the results, he decided he was out, and FF.
That's so messed up. First ONOG, then NASL, now Iron Squid. This guy just doesn't learn. Some people just don't see beyond their own ego. I hope the mill manager boxes his ears properly this time.
Forfeiting like he did at ONOG is perfectly normal and an acceptable way to behave yourself in professional competitive gaming. Only the naive, and frankly ignorant, people in this community tend to think that forfeiting is "OMG BM".
It is much less respectable and honest what the organizers did, i.e saying "whatever we're just putting him 4th even if in the rules it's fine to forfeit, so we still have 2 hours of games we can show, get more views because of the drama, more money from the ads, and we'll just let the retarded community dump the shame on Stephano".
The NASL games were useless once the 8 qualified players were decided.
The Iron Squid games were useless just like the NASL ones. It is pretty clear why would someone want to forfeit the last match in a group stage.
A number of NBA games are 'useless' but will still be played.
Obviously pro gamers win as much cash per games as a NBA player.
Forfeiting matches hurts the tournaments (I bet a ton of people would have tuned in to see him play against MMA) and therefore wont help pro gamers to increase the price money and their earnings.
Just for clarification: Is Stephano still in the tournament, or completely disqualified? The news post by Iron Squid only explicitly says that Stephano was disqualified for the Bo3 against MMA, but later uses the phrase "4 remaining competitors". Looking at the scores, it seems that if Stephano is indeed still in the tournament, he could still advance by beating Jjakji.
Also, MMA is a lock for the next round, and even if Jjakji 2-0 Stephano, he still is ahead by Map score, correct?
MaNa is already unable to advance, so there are only 4 contenders left in the group.
Why Stephano keeps doing this I don't know, the guy really plays great games and could take MMA head on no problem, plus this is a french organized tournament... He could learn a thing or two about self-image I guess.
On April 04 2012 04:38 catplanetcatplanet wrote: So basically Life is out as well? Doe Stephano forfeit all his matches?
Well, yes, even if he beats Mana and Stephano win against Jjackji ( don't count on that ), he will be out.
Actually no, if Stephano beats Jjajki and Life 2-0s Mana or if Stephano 2-0s Jjakji and Life beats Mana, life is through with MMA since mapscore is counted first
True, my bad, but If Stephano forfeits against MMA, i don't think he won against Jjackji, we'll see tomorrow but it's pretty clear.
This is the scenario you're drawing: Stephano played vs. Jjakji fairly early in the process, lost, then looked at his loss to Life, thought, am I still going to be able to advance? To make sure, he delayed his match vs. MMA repeatedly in order to see Mana's results. Once he got the results, he decided he was out, and FF.
That's so messed up. First ONOG, then NASL, now Iron Squid. This guy just doesn't learn. Some people just don't see beyond their own ego. I hope the mill manager boxes his ears properly this time.
Forfeiting like he did at ONOG is perfectly normal and an acceptable way to behave yourself in professional competitive gaming. Only the naive, and frankly ignorant, people in this community tend to think that forfeiting is "OMG BM".
It is much less respectable and honest what the organizers did, i.e saying "whatever we're just putting him 4th even if in the rules it's fine to forfeit, so we still have 2 hours of games we can show, get more views because of the drama, more money from the ads, and we'll just let the retarded community dump the shame on Stephano".
The NASL games were useless once the 8 qualified players were decided.
The Iron Squid games were useless just like the NASL ones. It is pretty clear why would someone want to forfeit the last match in a group stage.
A number of NBA games are 'useless' but will still be played.
Obviously pro gamers win as much cash per games as a NBA player.
Obviously NBA players win cash whenever they win games.
Simple, he had no chance to advance because he lost to jjakji earlier on during his slump against terrans, thus nothing to win by playing MMA and everything to lose (either he plays not seriously and it is a poor match, or he plays seriously and risks to give strat info for potential later opponents). Not saying he was morally is right, he could have made 2 7 pools or a drones rush, but that's the risk when you do such long duration online tournaments...sometimes players don't see the point to play and forfeit. It's not like he was paid to play, he was legally right to forfeit, but obviously for the fans it's disappointing.
On April 04 2012 04:38 catplanetcatplanet wrote: So basically Life is out as well? Doe Stephano forfeit all his matches?
Well, yes, even if he beats Mana and Stephano win against Jjackji ( don't count on that ), he will be out.
Actually no, if Stephano beats Jjajki and Life 2-0s Mana or if Stephano 2-0s Jjakji and Life beats Mana, life is through with MMA since mapscore is counted first
True, my bad, but If Stephano forfeits against MMA, i don't think he won against Jjackji, we'll see tomorrow but it's pretty clear.
This is the scenario you're drawing: Stephano played vs. Jjakji fairly early in the process, lost, then looked at his loss to Life, thought, am I still going to be able to advance? To make sure, he delayed his match vs. MMA repeatedly in order to see Mana's results. Once he got the results, he decided he was out, and FF.
That's so messed up. First ONOG, then NASL, now Iron Squid. This guy just doesn't learn. Some people just don't see beyond their own ego. I hope the mill manager boxes his ears properly this time.
Forfeiting like he did at ONOG is perfectly normal and an acceptable way to behave yourself in professional competitive gaming. Only the naive, and frankly ignorant, people in this community tend to think that forfeiting is "OMG BM".
It is much less respectable and honest what the organizers did, i.e saying "whatever we're just putting him 4th even if in the rules it's fine to forfeit, so we still have 2 hours of games we can show, get more views because of the drama, more money from the ads, and we'll just let the retarded community dump the shame on Stephano".
The NASL games were useless once the 8 qualified players were decided.
The Iron Squid games were useless just like the NASL ones. It is pretty clear why would someone want to forfeit the last match in a group stage.
Holy crap this is honestly one of the worst posts I have ever read on this forum. I didn't think a post like this was possible...
On April 04 2012 09:15 IMNasty wrote: so he's forfeited...ONOG, NASL, millenium cup, EG masters cup (for millenium), and now iron squid
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He's the boss of the foreign scene. Nobody can do anything to him now. Tournaments line up in front of his door to ask him to participate in their events. Reminds me of when Idra criticized a tournament and people agreed that he can afford to do that because it's their loss not to send him invitation.
Well, appart from my commentary to the pretty silly comment earlier, I do think it's pretty irrespectuous. But more for the team than for any other, because they pay him a fixed salary to play and represent them, which in this tournament, he did neither of. And you know what? Invites suck ass.
It's a standard problem in the competitive scene: teams/tournaments don't hold a candle to players in terms of relevance and popularity. A popular player won't get punished by tournaments because they need players like him to draw viewers. The NBA has a similar problem with the relationship between referees and star players.
On April 04 2012 10:49 CosmicSpiral wrote: It's a standard problem in the competitive scene: teams/tournaments don't hold a candle to players in terms of relevance and popularity. A popular player won't get punished by tournaments because they need players like him to draw viewers. The NBA has a similar problem with the relationship between referees and star players.
Maybe we need teams to enforce discipline? After Coca-Byun, I don't think any player on a Korean team will dare to take a match lightly anymore. Problem is, foreign teams don't really seem to have measures of discipline for their members. I don't think tournaments should punish players, since as you mentioned that tournaments could end up hurting themselves by taking strong stances against players.
On April 04 2012 04:38 catplanetcatplanet wrote: So basically Life is out as well? Doe Stephano forfeit all his matches?
Well, yes, even if he beats Mana and Stephano win against Jjackji ( don't count on that ), he will be out.
Actually no, if Stephano beats Jjajki and Life 2-0s Mana or if Stephano 2-0s Jjakji and Life beats Mana, life is through with MMA since mapscore is counted first
True, my bad, but If Stephano forfeits against MMA, i don't think he won against Jjackji, we'll see tomorrow but it's pretty clear.
This is the scenario you're drawing: Stephano played vs. Jjakji fairly early in the process, lost, then looked at his loss to Life, thought, am I still going to be able to advance? To make sure, he delayed his match vs. MMA repeatedly in order to see Mana's results. Once he got the results, he decided he was out, and FF.
That's so messed up. First ONOG, then NASL, now Iron Squid. This guy just doesn't learn. Some people just don't see beyond their own ego. I hope the mill manager boxes his ears properly this time.
Forfeiting like he did at ONOG is perfectly normal and an acceptable way to behave yourself in professional competitive gaming. Only the naive, and frankly ignorant, people in this community tend to think that forfeiting is "OMG BM".
It is much less respectable and honest what the organizers did, i.e saying "whatever we're just putting him 4th even if in the rules it's fine to forfeit, so we still have 2 hours of games we can show, get more views because of the drama, more money from the ads, and we'll just let the retarded community dump the shame on Stephano".
The NASL games were useless once the 8 qualified players were decided.
The Iron Squid games were useless just like the NASL ones. It is pretty clear why would someone want to forfeit the last match in a group stage.
You were definitely on Naniwa's side when he did the probe rush, weren't you?
im really not surprised at all to hear stephano forfeiting. he just doesnt seem like a person who is committed to SC2. you gotta be fully in or not, cant half ass it, just like everything else in this world. fortunately for stephano, he has school to fall back on.
On April 04 2012 10:49 CosmicSpiral wrote: It's a standard problem in the competitive scene: teams/tournaments don't hold a candle to players in terms of relevance and popularity. A popular player won't get punished by tournaments because they need players like him to draw viewers. The NBA has a similar problem with the relationship between referees and star players.
Maybe we need teams to enforce discipline? After Coca-Byun, I don't think any player on a Korean team will dare to take a match lightly anymore. Problem is, foreign teams don't really seem to have measures of discipline for their members. I don't think tournaments should punish players, since as you mentioned that tournaments could end up hurting themselves by taking strong stances against players.
The two main differences between the Korean competitive scene and foreigner competitive scene are the collectivist bent and the enormous pool of talent. Notice that the main argument in support of Stephano are "the series was meaningless". It automatically assumes that the tournament must provide sufficient incentive for Stephano to play instead Stephano giving the tournament sufficient incentive to invite him into the group stages. By contrast, the Savior cheating scandal always harped on how much damage Savior did to his contemporaries and to the scene.
Coca and Byun are star talents but they are not unique by any stretch of the imagination. In the Iron Squid alone we have a relative nobody who beat Stephano and almost upset Jjakji and MMA, and there are lots of players like him being raised up to the professional level. The foreign scene is much slower in producing new talent and therefore has to value its existing talent even more. Consequently the top level of the Korea scene is in constant flux while the top of the foreign scene is relatively static. Where exactly is Millenium going to pick up a new Stephano if they don't want to tolerate his antics anymore? Not to mention the problems of enforcing discipline when all your players don't live in the same location (which is why international teams spread out across the continent will never produce high-level talent consistently like the Korean model).
EPT
