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[GSL] 2012 Season 2 Code S Ro32 Group D - Page 44

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Montana[TK]
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
1624 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-27 11:13:44
March 27 2012 11:13 GMT
#861
On March 27 2012 20:11 Pipeline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 19:59 Crashburn wrote:
On March 27 2012 19:59 Valikyr wrote:
What is dual sight doing in the map pool? Really?


This.

Crossfire and Dual Sight need to be tossed in the ol' incinerator.


Seriously check the TLPD before you spew out nonsense.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/499_Dual_Sight_1.1 ZvP Korean TLPD is 42,5% winrate for zerg

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/499_Dual_Sight_1.1 ZvP international is 51,2% winrate for zerg.

Im so tired of people arguing or pointing without facts


stop quoting damn TLPD

you think Pros go hit up TPLD when they decide which maps to veto?

use yar brains morans and make up your own mind ;;^_`
Plexa: "It's not [caster] bashing when its the truth."
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4420 Posts
March 27 2012 11:13 GMT
#862
On March 27 2012 20:11 pdd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 20:07 bgx wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:04 Thugtronik wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:01 Asha` wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:00 Ghoststrikes wrote:
Fuck this map. HerO is playing so well... but it's useless


Yeah, damn Zergs and their 42% win rate on this map.


probably because protoss has to 2 base all in every game. if all protoss went for thirds like this im sure zerg's winrate would be higher

rofl, so if protoss wins most of the games on this map by 2-basing its BAD for protoss? And then you fault map because its weak for 3 base? Never heard of map dependant builds?

A map which limits any races options is kinda imbalanced. If your opponent knows you're 2 basing they will know how to prepare for it. Dual Sight has a horribly Zerg favored bias in all other versions of this map on TLPD

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/445_Dual_Sight
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/445_Dual_Sight
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/499_Dual_Sight_1.1 (funnily this is quite balanced)

That's why Lost Temple was a bad map because Thor and tanks on cliffs forced Zergs to go Roaches. And when you know your opponent is going for roaches, you kinda know how to defend.


Old versions of Dual Sight are pretty irrelevant considering they were from a time-frame that Zerg was dominating vs Protoss on every map. More representative of the overall balance at the time than map balance.
Yaki
Profile Joined April 2011
France4234 Posts
March 27 2012 11:13 GMT
#863
On March 27 2012 20:11 tree.hugger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 20:09 parazice wrote:
stop blame to a map
HerO choose to not 2-base all-in in this map
it's his choice

Haha

Sad but true if you don't 2 base all in on this map you're doomed.
MC ■ MarineKing ■ LosirA ■ To someone who has lost after trying his best, no words from the winner can console him.
bbQ4Aiur
Profile Joined March 2011
Hong Kong2752 Posts
March 27 2012 11:13 GMT
#864
On March 27 2012 20:13 Cuce wrote:
do you know what keyboard hero uses?

the razor sc2 marauder one? idk
uThermal
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands165 Posts
March 27 2012 11:13 GMT
#865
curious gna do something cheesy:o
Team Liquid
Atoissen
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway1737 Posts
March 27 2012 11:14 GMT
#866
On March 27 2012 20:08 TheBB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 20:05 Atoissen wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:01 Asha` wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:00 Ghoststrikes wrote:
Fuck this map. HerO is playing so well... but it's useless


Yeah, damn Zergs and their 42% win rate on this map.

They only reason for the low % then has to be Protoss all-inning...? And winning?
But thats not waht we want to see is it? We never want to know that he will 2 base all-inn... It would be easy for zerg to win then.

What? All-ins are part of the game too. Of course a map will appear imbalanced for Zerg if all Protoss choose to employ a suboptimal strategy.

Well, what I am trying to say is that this map forces toss to allinn... If toss chose to allinn its a 50/50 chance to win, if toss goes for a third base on this map I am sure the win rate drops to atleast 20/80 in favour for zerg.

If you get what I mean? The map is bad because toss cant really chose how to play the game.
“Strength lies not in defense but in attack.”
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
March 27 2012 11:14 GMT
#867
Hero seems to be sold on Stargate PvZ openings.
Fragile51
Profile Joined October 2011
Netherlands15767 Posts
March 27 2012 11:14 GMT
#868
On March 27 2012 20:13 Cuce wrote:
do you know what keyboard hero uses?


Blackwidow ultimate i believe.
Angel_
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1617 Posts
March 27 2012 11:14 GMT
#869
i really have mixed feelings on this stargate.
tomwizz
Profile Joined October 2010
524 Posts
March 27 2012 11:15 GMT
#870
Look like code S protoss love stargate
itsjuspeter
Profile Joined November 2010
United States668 Posts
March 27 2012 11:15 GMT
#871
On March 27 2012 20:11 Pipeline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 19:59 Crashburn wrote:
On March 27 2012 19:59 Valikyr wrote:
What is dual sight doing in the map pool? Really?


This.

Crossfire and Dual Sight need to be tossed in the ol' incinerator.


Seriously check the TLPD before you spew out nonsense.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/499_Dual_Sight_1.1 ZvP Korean TLPD is 42,5% winrate for zerg

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/499_Dual_Sight_1.1 ZvP international is 51,2% winrate for zerg.

Im so tired of people arguing or pointing without facts


Read the post a few posts above you about TLPD statistics. They are in no way indicative of actual balance of a map. Counting lower level tourneys and not showing the highest of skill isn't going to do you justice or give you a strong arguement. Majority of the population can see that Dual Sight is zerg favored because of abusive attack paths mid game and the brutal muta switch which stretched protoss too thin. This is why a 2 base-all in is the best choice on this map. I can spit out links too without a solid reason behind it like you watch:

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/445_Dual_Sight
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/445_Dual_Sight
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/499_Dual_Sight_1.1

All Z favored.
Montana[TK]
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
1624 Posts
March 27 2012 11:15 GMT
#872
hero loves dem foreign tournamnets
Plexa: "It's not [caster] bashing when its the truth."
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
March 27 2012 11:16 GMT
#873
On March 27 2012 20:11 pdd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 20:07 bgx wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:04 Thugtronik wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:01 Asha` wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:00 Ghoststrikes wrote:
Fuck this map. HerO is playing so well... but it's useless


Yeah, damn Zergs and their 42% win rate on this map.


probably because protoss has to 2 base all in every game. if all protoss went for thirds like this im sure zerg's winrate would be higher

rofl, so if protoss wins most of the games on this map by 2-basing its BAD for protoss? And then you fault map because its weak for 3 base? Never heard of map dependant builds?

A map which limits any races options is kinda imbalanced. If your opponent knows you're 2 basing they will know how to prepare for it. Dual Sight has a horribly Zerg favored bias in all other versions of this map on TLPD

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/445_Dual_Sight
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/445_Dual_Sight
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/499_Dual_Sight_1.1 (funnily this is quite balanced)

That's why Lost Temple was a bad map because Thor and tanks on cliffs forced Zergs to go Roaches. And when you know your opponent is going for roaches, you kinda know how to defend.

Yes and it still doesnt mean you lose or win. But choosing completely different and completely sub optimal decision because its DIFFERENT (for a sole reason) is much worse. There are maps that favor certain playstyles, and even if everyone follows it, it still craetes good games. Why? Because games are not won because of build order counters but by execution. And comparing it to Lost temple cliff is oversimplifying it.
Stork[gm]
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
March 27 2012 11:16 GMT
#874
Not a fan of the Artosis pylong of HerO going on there, he's gotta work on building placement, should look a bit at MC on that.
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
March 27 2012 11:16 GMT
#875
On March 27 2012 20:13 JJH777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2012 20:11 pdd wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:07 bgx wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:04 Thugtronik wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:01 Asha` wrote:
On March 27 2012 20:00 Ghoststrikes wrote:
Fuck this map. HerO is playing so well... but it's useless


Yeah, damn Zergs and their 42% win rate on this map.


probably because protoss has to 2 base all in every game. if all protoss went for thirds like this im sure zerg's winrate would be higher

rofl, so if protoss wins most of the games on this map by 2-basing its BAD for protoss? And then you fault map because its weak for 3 base? Never heard of map dependant builds?

A map which limits any races options is kinda imbalanced. If your opponent knows you're 2 basing they will know how to prepare for it. Dual Sight has a horribly Zerg favored bias in all other versions of this map on TLPD

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/445_Dual_Sight
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/445_Dual_Sight
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/499_Dual_Sight_1.1 (funnily this is quite balanced)

That's why Lost Temple was a bad map because Thor and tanks on cliffs forced Zergs to go Roaches. And when you know your opponent is going for roaches, you kinda know how to defend.


Old versions of Dual Sight are pretty irrelevant considering they were from a time-frame that Zerg was dominating vs Protoss on every map. More representative of the overall balance at the time than map balance.

But all 4 versions were being updated for a while even when Protosses learnt how to win against Zerg (late 2011)
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
Eurekastreet
Profile Joined November 2010
1308 Posts
March 27 2012 11:17 GMT
#876
when did euro replaced dollars for westerners to understand those figures ?
"2 cannons, it's not one cannons" - White-Ra
b0rt_
Profile Joined October 2011
Norway931 Posts
March 27 2012 11:17 GMT
#877
On March 27 2012 20:12 drbrown wrote:
If HerO wins this i propose we all complain about how Entombed Valley is a crappy zerg map since maps seem to be the focus of this LR thread.

no way if Hero wins this it's suddenly all skill, gratz etc, nothing to do with map
Montana[TK]
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
1624 Posts
March 27 2012 11:17 GMT
#878
On March 27 2012 20:16 Lysanias wrote:
Not a fan of the Artosis pylong of HerO going on there, he's gotta work on building placement, should look a bit at MC on that.


artosis pylon is more energy efficient
Plexa: "It's not [caster] bashing when its the truth."
DJHelium
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden13480 Posts
March 27 2012 11:17 GMT
#879
KYLE!
#1 player in the world atm: J-god | Follow me on twitter! @DJHelium
teamamerica
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States958 Posts
March 27 2012 11:17 GMT
#880
Not seen any Hive tech play from Curious - maybe he's not comfortable with it? Would like to see HerO play defensively and go for the late game mothership/warp prism harass everywhere play I'm love from him.

BTW, iirc HerO is known for being really fast mechanically. Is this true or am I just stupid?
RIP GOMTV. RIP PROLEAGUE.
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