[GSL] 2012 Season 2 Code S Ro32 Group D

[GSL] 2012 Season 2 Code S Ro32 Group D - Page 100

michielbrands

Netherlands1146 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1981

Woooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :D :D So this makes my boring day at work just a little beter :D Gooo HerO!

Kznn

Brazil9072 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1982

FUCKING DUAL SIGHT ZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Dodgin

Canada39254 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1983

Do a +2 blink all-in hero!

DO IT!

Ahelvin

France1866 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1984

On March 27 2012 22:41 Plexa wrote:
holy shit hero could you cut that any closer ~~~~~~

Hahaha, exactly what I was thinking.

Reminds me of this GSL final with burrow banelings. Take a huge blow in the early/mid game, come back with great micro and clutch decision making.

Angel_

United States1617 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1985

On March 27 2012 22:41 bittman wrote:
Curious uses his GGLords to help him lose the game.

Wait, that's not how GGLords are meant to work!? *facepalm*

Well...they resulted in a GG one way or the other.
-

And. blah fucking dual sight.

MosART

United States1899 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1986

Dual Sight...HerO will trolls again and go for a 3rd base.

Altern

United States1053 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1987

OMG Hero cmon! Just ONE more!!!

fidelity

Sweden410 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1988

I think Curious is going to 2-base all-in ^^

fragfish

19 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1989

Beautiful game by Hero. When all those mutas where on the loose, I didn't think he'd survive ... yet somehow he pulled through. Now it's time to seal the deal!

Plague1503

Croatia466 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1990

7gate allin plz

Roybs

Netherlands500 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1991

O god hero don't take a 3rd on this map, please.. For me :[

Runair

United States49 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1992

What an ugly game from both sides. Neither player deserves to advance if they keep playing like that.

Hider

Denmark9405 Posts

March 27 2012 13:42 GMT

#1993

On March 27 2012 22:32 trwkling wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 27 2012 22:29 Vega62a wrote:

On March 27 2012 22:23 Hider wrote:

On March 27 2012 22:16 rothsbury wrote:

On March 27 2012 22:13 Hider wrote:

On March 27 2012 22:08 rothsbury wrote:

On March 27 2012 22:03 HwangjaeTerran wrote:

On March 27 2012 22:01 rothsbury wrote:

On March 27 2012 21:56 Fluffboll wrote:

On March 27 2012 21:52 rothsbury wrote:
[quote]
Eh, Gumiho was really unprepared for the broodlords in this match; he didn't start viking production until broods were already morphing. I think it is pretty balanced.

Actually, if you produce enough vikings to take out the Brood Lords and Corruptors the tech switch to Ultra/Ling will kill you so Terran lategame is really bad versus zerg lategame at this moment in time. Terrans can still win vs zerg by not letting the zerg get to the lategame however.

That's an economy issue then; broodlord/corruptor is really expensive, so if the terran has let the zerg get such an economic lead that the zerg can afford to lose all his corruptors and broods and then mass out of ultra/lings, then you were probably behind anyway. In a lot of broodlord corruptor pushes the zerg uses all of his money on those units, so if he loses them he can't really afford a big tech switch.

I think that leads us to the point: Don't let zerg reach the lategame. I wouldn't call fast tech with no economy to back it up lategame.

Lategame =/= letting zerg do whatever he wants. If you let the zerg sit on 5 bases without attacking for 20 mins, then yeah they gcan do that really expensive gas switch no problem. The idea is that even in the lategame you deny expansions, snipe expos, trade armies etc. so the zerg can't build up a giant bank while on 200/200.

Edit: also drops are really good against zerg lategame. Couple of dropships can kill a lot of tech / drones etc..

Watch stephano plays. He has great multitasking. And simply deals with early attacks. There is no way (IMO) that you can do a lot of damage early game/midgame to a zerg who simply plays very well like stephano. What works on your ladder game isn't suppoed to work on top top zerg players. And its only gonna get worse in the future (zergs gonna get better and better), untill (if) the terran finds a way to beat the army.

Well yeah, but Stephano is hardly invincible. Also, what you're describing can be explained by Stephano being more skilled than the terrans he faces. (But again, he's not invincible; he is beaten by good terrans like Polt a lot of the time.) You can't just point to one good player and say "oh zerg can't be dealt with"; maybe you need a terran stephano?

But what is the terran supposed to do? The problem is right now that when the zerg gets to a certain skill level, he learns how to deal with the immoblity issues of broodlord/infestor. And then he will be able to absolutely crush every single terran players in a straight up battle. So the terran needs to find a way to be somewhat efficient against broodlord/infestor.

Maybe they will find a way. But currently no terran has a long-term solution for this. And this isn't about skill level. The terran can have 400+ APM, (like MKP micro + fantastic knowledge of the game), but he still wont be able to beat a zerg who doesn't make mistakes.

So the thing is: Terran needs to find a way to win late game, and the long term solution isn't gonna be counterattacking. The long-term solution has to be a unit composition that can at least trade somewhat even in a battle (of course given good micro) with broodlord/infestor.

This feels like kind of an oversimplification. Saying a zerg "Just learns how to deal with drops" discounts the Terran's role in making drops work. (Day9 used to talk about that in his earlier dailies, although it was never a focus.)

Why does Terran's solution need to be a unit composition that can trade evenly with Zerg's? Why can't it be a whole game plan that puts the terran in a favorable position lategame? Why can't it be counterattack-based?

i must agree with this.
i think the argument for "balance" shouldn't be about how all races can trade effectively with each other at each stage but that they have different strengths and the player must exploit the strengths to position himself to take the game.
so i'd think (and i lose a lot to zergs late game as terran) that the question is not really about whether they late game is balanced or the mid game is balanced or whatever, its just about how you manipulate your resources

Why was ghost ever nerfed according to your logic? Ghost heavy army still had distadvantages (being immobile vs pure speedlings).

But the problem is that the strenght of bio/mech (from the terran perspective vs broodlord/infestor) isn't mobile enough. Its a pretty immobile earmy where you trade to beat an army that is 20% less mobile. That simply doesn't have any long term solution.

I mean it could be a long-term solution if the more mobile army was 50%+ more mobile (like bio is vs mech in tvt). But the advantage of the terran army against zerg is simply way to little to compensate for the fact that you get roflstomped in a pure battle (probably as a rule of thumb: If the army is 20% less mobile it should only be 20% more efficient in a battle - but right now its like 20% less mobile, 50% more efficient - given that both players micro at top korean level).

Obv. above numbers are pulled out of my ass, but I feel like they still put up a good argument of why terran either needs a buff or needs to innovate them selves.

Theovide

Sweden914 Posts

March 27 2012 13:43 GMT

#1994

HerooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOO

if he keeps this up I'll 4/4 my liquibet :DD.

bittman

Australia8759 Posts

March 27 2012 13:43 GMT

#1995

On March 27 2012 22:41 pookums wrote:

Show nested quote +

If you think Curious needs to go back to code A to practice (what does that even mean? you can practice in code S too) then Hero definitely needs to do it too. Neither of these two should be Ro16 Code S based on today's play.

Got to agree. Liquid bias might slam you any second now, but despite what I'm seeing said in the LR Hero looked only slightly less sloppy than Curious.

And Curious was sloppy.