[NASTL] Quantic vs FXO - Page 12

On February 10 2012 12:25 SC2NeCro wrote:


Thanks for the heads up. I'll stop wasting my time with watching any Quantic player from now. Except NaNiWa because he's clearly not about that.

On February 10 2012 12:26 openbox1 wrote:


what match was that?

On February 10 2012 12:24 kubiks wrote:
Usually the sign of a player outclassing an other one is to kill someone with pressure. (but well anyway there are not that many foreign player that Oz doesn't outclas :D)
But still not as funny as MC winning in a DT rush in PvP without making a single DT :D

On February 10 2012 12:23 bkrow wrote:

You are misunderstanding i think; it was a win. Win is a win - obviously. But i took issue with the word "solid", because there is nothing solid about massing a single unit.

On February 10 2012 12:24 lichter wrote:


Quantic have mentioned many times before that they want a team that is entertaining and has personality, competitiveness is just one of the requirements.

On February 10 2012 12:28 MrDudeMan wrote:


Why? His build seemed pretty solid to me. It's really not as easy as it seems. One slip up can cost you like 1300 gas worth of mutas. Besides even players like MC and MKP mass one unit and win all the time. In fact I would say its even easier to mass stalkers and mass marines than it is to mass mutas.

On February 10 2012 12:29 Jell wrote:


Yes, of course! So it isn't a solid win because he built a lot of mutas! I guess I should take that into account, every player who wins doing muta/spine crawler, shouldn't really be considered a good player because it's just abusing a unit! Genius! Destiny is such a dirty player.

On February 10 2012 12:33 bkrow wrote:
I actually enjoy watching Destiny for his ingenuity and innovation - i just didn't like this particular strategy; massing spines and mutas is definitely not solid; it relies on almost perfect control which Destiny managed this game. He played it fantastically, that doesn't mean the strategy isn't sub-optimal.

On February 10 2012 12:25 SC2NeCro wrote:


Thanks for the heads up. I'll stop wasting my time with watching any Quantic player from now. Except NaNiWa because he's clearly not about that.

On February 10 2012 12:30 YoiChiBow wrote:


No that's not true at all... Competition takes precedence over everything -_-.

On February 10 2012 12:33 bkrow wrote:

I don't often call people retarded, but you are coming awfully close.

Nowhere in my post did i reference Destiny's ability; i did not even mention his name. I didn't call him dirty, nor did i imply anything of the sort. I understand hearing negative words when you are a fanboy can spin you into a frenzy, but please do not exaggerate too much <--- passive aggressive smiley.

I actually enjoy watching Destiny for his ingenuity and innovation - i just didn't like this particular strategy; massing spines and mutas is definitely not solid; it relies on almost perfect control which Destiny managed this game. He played it fantastically, that doesn't mean the strategy isn't sub-optimal.

edit: eugh that came out more aggressive than intended; sorry but i hope you still get what i was trying to say

On February 10 2012 12:53 The Final Boss wrote:
People are continuously arguing "Mutalisks take no skillz!!!" or "Mutalisks are sooo Gosu!!" I'll be honest, I play Terran. I have very little insight into the PvZ/ZvP metagame, but I know a lot of Protoss players complain about Mutalisks being "OP." After watching the game Destiny played and the game Destiny played vs MaNa (basically the same strat, for those of you who didn't see).

Now I want to ask a question, if anybody has a deep knowledge of the PvZ metagame I'd be really interested in hearing your response, but just out of curiosity:

What is Protoss supposed to do against that?

I know that Muta play can die to aggressive Protoss players, but I don't see anyway that that Muta ball can die unless Destiny makes a major miss-micro and flies them through a Storm or Blink Stalkers. And, if the Protoss cannot kill those Mutalisks, then suddenly they can't ever move out of their base without that attack becoming an all-in.

I'm sure that there are a plethora of timings, cheeses, and all-ins that counter Mutalisk play, but is there any way for a Protoss to win a game against a Zerg who goes Mutalisk without that Zerg making a major mistake? Destiny is a good player, but I know for a fact that he is not at the mechanical level of MaNa or Choya, so how is it that he can win such convincing games against them?

Again, these are merely my observations from having watched some PvZs. Generally, whenever Protoss players cry imba I just laugh because deep down we all know that PvT is a broken match-up but I actually fail to see the proper response to that.

I know that I personally am sometimes found in a situation in TvZ where if I attack, I have to win, because I'm losing my entire base. So I'd be really interested to hear from any Zergs or Protoss players who know how to beat this Muta ball without doing some cheesy one or two base build and without the Zerg having a major micro error. Thanks!

On February 10 2012 12:53 The Final Boss wrote:
People are continuously arguing "Mutalisks take no skillz!!!" or "Mutalisks are sooo Gosu!!" I'll be honest, I play Terran. I have very little insight into the PvZ/ZvP metagame, but I know a lot of Protoss players complain about Mutalisks being "OP." After watching the game Destiny played and the game Destiny played vs MaNa (basically the same strat, for those of you who didn't see).

Now I want to ask a question, if anybody has a deep knowledge of the PvZ metagame I'd be really interested in hearing your response, but just out of curiosity:

What is Protoss supposed to do against that?

I know that Muta play can die to aggressive Protoss players, but I don't see anyway that that Muta ball can die unless Destiny makes a major miss-micro and flies them through a Storm or Blink Stalkers. And, if the Protoss cannot kill those Mutalisks, then suddenly they can't ever move out of their base without that attack becoming an all-in.

I'm sure that there are a plethora of timings, cheeses, and all-ins that counter Mutalisk play, but is there any way for a Protoss to win a game against a Zerg who goes Mutalisk without that Zerg making a major mistake? Destiny is a good player, but I know for a fact that he is not at the mechanical level of MaNa or Choya, so how is it that he can win such convincing games against them?

Again, these are merely my observations from having watched some PvZs. Generally, whenever Protoss players cry imba I just laugh because deep down we all know that PvT is a broken match-up but I actually fail to see the proper response to that.

I know that I personally am sometimes found in a situation in TvZ where if I attack, I have to win, because I'm losing my entire base. So I'd be really interested to hear from any Zergs or Protoss players who know how to beat this Muta ball without doing some cheesy one or two base build and without the Zerg having a major micro error. Thanks!

On February 10 2012 12:58 Zdrastochye wrote:


Storms. Like... a Parting amount of them. No zerg will split his muta ball up, so you just storm them wherever you can. Also note that you can't go mutas like that on every map, you need lots of dead space to be able to flee from blink stalkers.

On February 10 2012 12:14 bkrow wrote:

Rofl? Mass mutas and spines = solid win.

Interesting.

On February 10 2012 13:04 The Final Boss wrote:

I feel like to get to the point where you have a enough storms for that to be true, you need to have the economy, and Mutalisks shut down expansions.

That's another thing I've realized about that sort of strategy, it seemed even more effective on Tal'Darim Altar. I think it's great to tailor certain strategies for specific maps, but if a strategy is so good on a map where it becomes almost impossible to beat, then I think there may be a problem. It seemed that the short distance form main to third on Tal'Darim Altar made it almost impossible (I know that's a different game then the Destiny v Choya game, but the game I'm thinking about was Destiny vs MaNa in IPL TAC 2 and it pertains to the discussion).