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On February 02 2012 20:22 R!! wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:13 bennyaus wrote:
Lots of toss do these immortal pushes ^^ Need a marine heavier composition and like 3 layers of bunkers to be able to hold it. Like 9 bunkers?Might work, then again the protoss might get a third and double forge in response and you lose anyways. Is anyone counting how many PvT games puzzle won with 6-7 gate/immortal? I think its hovering around 7 out of 10.
So far in this code S he's having awesome success with both those builds def. None of his opponents so far have looked close to working out how to hold them, so he could keep laying down the 2base timing hurt deeper into the tournament
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On February 02 2012 20:24 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:23 kyllinghest wrote:On February 02 2012 20:21 MorroW wrote:
this is pretty stupid, that wasnt even close on crossfire
serious hat on here, what is terran supposed to do? how many bunkers u need rofl Perhaps a more tank-marine based army in the early game? Highground tanks take care of stalkers and sentries, while marines stomp immortals. Just a thought. colossi stomp marines, immorts stomp tanks
But tanks stomp colossi, and marines stomp immortals;). Besides, there isn't going to be many colossi that early.
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On February 02 2012 20:21 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:19 See.Blue wrote:On February 02 2012 20:18 avilo wrote:
You need 6 bunkers to hold this (the initial x3-x4 immortal bs). Avilo is there some sort of terran-lost-a-game batsignal that calls you into action? Hahhahahaha! Too perfect.
HAHAHAHAHA
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lol just wake up and saw the results
another group of death lol
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On February 02 2012 20:24 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:23 kyllinghest wrote:On February 02 2012 20:21 MorroW wrote:
this is pretty stupid, that wasnt even close on crossfire
serious hat on here, what is terran supposed to do? how many bunkers u need rofl Perhaps a more tank-marine based army in the early game? Highground tanks take care of stalkers and sentries, while marines stomp immortals. Just a thought. yeye its for sure tank shut this down, but does that mean terran must go tank every game vs toss or what?
Umm well, wouldn't the toss just not do this rush if they saw tanks anyway? It's not like you can't transition out of robo expand, and once the obs sees your tech they can decide what to do from there.
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On February 02 2012 20:21 0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:18 frucisky wrote:On February 02 2012 20:18 Nekovivie wrote:On February 02 2012 20:17 redviper wrote:
Yes! Watching MMA lose makes me so happy. Hope he drops out from here and goes to Code B next season. Whats he done to deserve that? MMA's fine, I just hate his fanboys of which he has a lot Yep, too many "he is proving to be the best player in the world" comments after every single game he wins
He's a GSL champion (twice if you count blizzard cup), he humiliated MVP the last time they met, he walked through his first Code S group as if he was asleep.
For someone who performs as well as he does he's incredibly underhyped. Tastosis started out saying they expected MMA to lose and drop out of this group.
His T v Z is untouchable and his T v T is amazing. He just happens to have a T v P weakness.
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On February 02 2012 20:24 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:23 kyllinghest wrote:On February 02 2012 20:21 MorroW wrote:
this is pretty stupid, that wasnt even close on crossfire
serious hat on here, what is terran supposed to do? how many bunkers u need rofl Perhaps a more tank-marine based army in the early game? Highground tanks take care of stalkers and sentries, while marines stomp immortals. Just a thought. yeye its for sure tank shut this down, but does that mean terran must go tank every game vs toss or what?
I think only for crossfire, or where the ramp is in front of the nat so toss has super easy access to FF it and stop reinforcements.
On maps like taldarim or entombed valley it's a lot easier to hold without tanks. especially since tanks kinda suck in tvp outside of the 1/1/1.
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On February 02 2012 20:23 IMPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:20 jjmmtt wrote:On February 02 2012 20:18 rebuffering wrote:On February 02 2012 20:17 jjmmtt wrote:
You basically need to be producing 3 vikings at a time just to keep up with 1 colossus production :S lol i build 4 vikes at a time, then die when the colossus arent there anymore cause ive got like 10 vikings worth of supply in dead weight. Sounds fair. 450 mins, 225 gas just to match 300/200 mins/gas. 8 supply vs 6 Plus once the colossi are dead, vikings do nothing. If vikings are dead, colossi lol @ everything the terran has on the ground
Yeah, because only these two units are made in PVT....
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On February 02 2012 20:25 double620 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:21 bennyaus wrote:
Are ghosts out in time if you're doing the 2base marine/ghost push? Maybe that is the only viable counter, aside from 1 base allins and Protoss messing up their FFs .. It depends on the map 2.
i saw this even on daybreak where terran went the ghost marine push, but the immortal push like this strikes before the ghosts get 75 energy. it strikes just when they pop afaik
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On February 02 2012 20:25 kyllinghest wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:24 Roe wrote:On February 02 2012 20:23 kyllinghest wrote:On February 02 2012 20:21 MorroW wrote:
this is pretty stupid, that wasnt even close on crossfire
serious hat on here, what is terran supposed to do? how many bunkers u need rofl Perhaps a more tank-marine based army in the early game? Highground tanks take care of stalkers and sentries, while marines stomp immortals. Just a thought. colossi stomp marines, immorts stomp tanks But tanks stomp colossi, and marines stomp immortals;). Besides, there isn't going to be many colossi that early.
but....colossi stomp the marines, and the immortals stomp the tanks! and plus immorts have hardened shields so they last longer than tanks.
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On February 02 2012 20:20 jjmmtt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:18 rebuffering wrote:On February 02 2012 20:17 jjmmtt wrote:
You basically need to be producing 3 vikings at a time just to keep up with 1 colossus production :S lol i build 4 vikes at a time, then die when the colossus arent there anymore cause ive got like 10 vikings worth of supply in dead weight. Sounds fair. 450 mins, 225 gas just to match 300/200 mins/gas.
Dont get me started on mineral and gas comparisons... its a pointless point to argue from. If you think the viking cost is terrible against colossus all I can say its even worse when it comes to corruptors vs colossus. At least you have viking range to play around with ^_^
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On February 02 2012 20:20 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:20 alphafuzard wrote:On February 02 2012 20:18 Horseballs wrote:
Man I hate immortal busts. The way it works in my games is I have like 8 bunkers and the toss just brings up immortals and one-shots them... now I know what I am going to be getting a lot of. I believe ghost timing hard counters this push. The only problem is ghosts are pretty bad against 2 base colossi timings. Yep, it's annoying how coinflippy pvt feel sometimes, from both sides.
That's why the 1-1-1 all in is the only build worth doing against protoss. 1 rax FE can be easily countered by some unforseen cheese. 2 rax rarely works and usually just puts you behind.
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On February 02 2012 20:24 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:23 kyllinghest wrote:On February 02 2012 20:21 MorroW wrote:
this is pretty stupid, that wasnt even close on crossfire
serious hat on here, what is terran supposed to do? how many bunkers u need rofl Perhaps a more tank-marine based army in the early game? Highground tanks take care of stalkers and sentries, while marines stomp immortals. Just a thought. yeye its for sure tank shut this down, but does that mean terran must go tank every game vs toss or what?
Its still a coin-flip in the early game, just trying to think of a solution to this push. Works for me, but Im a noob!
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On February 02 2012 20:25 kyllinghest wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:24 Roe wrote:On February 02 2012 20:23 kyllinghest wrote:On February 02 2012 20:21 MorroW wrote:
this is pretty stupid, that wasnt even close on crossfire
serious hat on here, what is terran supposed to do? how many bunkers u need rofl Perhaps a more tank-marine based army in the early game? Highground tanks take care of stalkers and sentries, while marines stomp immortals. Just a thought. colossi stomp marines, immorts stomp tanks But tanks stomp colossi, and marines stomp immortals;). Besides, there isn't going to be many colossi that early.
Brood War tanks maybe  most Toss players walk their Colossus into tanks and kill them no problem.
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Didn't he already get crowned winner of the GSL? Maybe it was just one of Gom's special tournies, but meh. If you're talking about in general, who is the best, I think the answer is Mvp and that the results of this particular GSL have no real impact on that
Well, MVP and MMA were clear #1/#2 before this tournament. IMO, MVP was #1 due to accomplishments but MMA's had been more recent so he was definitely a close #2. If he 4-0'ed today's group, there was a good arguement that he would take #1 for the moment. But since he lost to Puzzle, even if he makes it out today, don't think we can make that arguement. But if he does make it out AND wins this GSL, then I think we can put him on top again. But anyways, MVP/MMA still #1/#2.
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On February 02 2012 20:26 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:25 kyllinghest wrote:On February 02 2012 20:24 Roe wrote:On February 02 2012 20:23 kyllinghest wrote:On February 02 2012 20:21 MorroW wrote:
this is pretty stupid, that wasnt even close on crossfire
serious hat on here, what is terran supposed to do? how many bunkers u need rofl Perhaps a more tank-marine based army in the early game? Highground tanks take care of stalkers and sentries, while marines stomp immortals. Just a thought. colossi stomp marines, immorts stomp tanks But tanks stomp colossi, and marines stomp immortals;). Besides, there isn't going to be many colossi that early. but....colossi stomp the marines, and the immortals stomp the tanks! and plus immorts have hardened shields so they last longer than tanks.
except you have perfect position with tanks and marines .
and protoss army melted before killing 1 tank by Marines aha?
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On February 02 2012 20:24 SolidMustard wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:23 Darkthorn wrote:On February 02 2012 20:21 SolidMustard wrote:On February 02 2012 20:16 Witten wrote:On February 02 2012 20:12 Wildmoon wrote:On February 02 2012 20:09 SpicyCheese wrote:On February 02 2012 20:06 poorcloud wrote:On February 02 2012 20:03 SpicyCheese wrote:On February 02 2012 19:55 Olinimm wrote:On February 02 2012 19:54 SpicyCheese wrote:
lol... if MVP is much better then why does he always lose to MMA. Artosis confuses me sometimes So by your logic polt is better than MMA. but anyone with common sense knows thats not the case. Umm MMA has played MVP in bo7, bo5, and another bo5 in Geforce ProAM defeating him CONVINCINGLY every time, with the only time that MVP won was at MLG where he was already ahead in extended series anyway.... Also these were all pretty much during MVP's prime. If ur saying MVP was better then he should at least have won some of those sets right? Or at least make them close( which they were all one sided ). The Polt MMA games are pretty much one series of build order, where MMA wasn't even in his prime form and Polt has just sunk into the abyss. MVP has beat millions of other players who has beaten MMA. Just because MMA beats MVP in head to head confrontations dosen't make MVP the weaker overall player. Achievements don't lie. MVP status as best player should not be debated until he shows poor form for a few months and someone else takes over. Hmm so MVP not winning GSL since August and MMA winning the past 2 GSLs means nothing to u I guess... I wouldn't count Blizzard cup as GSL and if I remember right the reason why MMA/Polt were at Blizzard Cup because MVP won too much too. MMA is great player but he doesn't achieve as much as MVP. Blizzard cup was an invite only tournament featuring two players that clearly didn't deserve to be there (Stephano and Naniwa). It doesn't count. Are you fucking trolling? Blizzard Cup was like the hardest thing ever! All the champions fighting each other. How did Stephano and Naniwa not deserve to be there? Naniwa earned his spot at Blizzcon beating the likes of Nestea and Mvp... and Stephano, well he's the best foreigner and is clearly Code S material, and he won so much things.... You are a freakin douche. LOL when did naniwa beat mvp and nestea at blizzcon that was the mlg providence invitational thing so get your facts straight. lol yeah my bad, I got confused, but still the point remains the same. Both players fully deserved their spot, and this tournament was everything but easy
The awkward moment when u make a mistake in a post
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On February 02 2012 20:26 Bashion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:23 IMPrime wrote:On February 02 2012 20:20 jjmmtt wrote:On February 02 2012 20:18 rebuffering wrote:On February 02 2012 20:17 jjmmtt wrote:
You basically need to be producing 3 vikings at a time just to keep up with 1 colossus production :S lol i build 4 vikes at a time, then die when the colossus arent there anymore cause ive got like 10 vikings worth of supply in dead weight. Sounds fair. 450 mins, 225 gas just to match 300/200 mins/gas. 8 supply vs 6 Plus once the colossi are dead, vikings do nothing. If vikings are dead, colossi lol @ everything the terran has on the ground Yeah, because only these two units are made in PVT....
As soon as a colossus is made, you immediately have to be pumping 3 vikings or lose the game (while going MMM), that's just what happens. If you don't scout colossus and they walk across with 3 and you have no vikings, you die. It's just that the colossus unit changes the whole freaking game and then it's just "make vikings... even though it's more expensive..." And you will need to have 2 starports already built just to deal with it.
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On February 02 2012 20:23 dmnum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2012 20:22 teddyoojo wrote:On February 02 2012 20:20 dmnum wrote:On February 02 2012 20:19 RockStarCrft wrote:On February 02 2012 20:17 Itsmedudeman wrote:On February 02 2012 20:15 RockStarCrft wrote:On February 02 2012 20:13 bennyaus wrote:
Lots of toss do these immortal pushes ^^ Need a marine heavier composition and like 3 layers of bunkers to be able to hold it. 3 layers? like 6 bunkers... It seems like 4 bunkers is easily died to this push... Umm, bunkers are VERY bad against this, you need DPS most of all. If the protoss pushes in correctly at the right angle getting some bunkers up really doesn't do much because they do in like 1 shot to immortals. It's better to make a bunker walloff and have all your units behind tbh. Then, toss just forcefields to cut your army  I really wonder how u could hold this push, because i lose to this push very much lately ... Flanking might be worth trying. then he forcefields away the flank and just kills the other half? I didn't say it's the solution. And you can retreat if he forcefieds one half of your army. This push is not so good once the protoss has no more forcefields no?
The problem is he forcefields your ramp so you can't get all your reinforcements down, and he can kill everything at your natural (all scv's, whatever is of the army there).
Afterwards he can go into your main and forcefield your ramp behind him locking your army outside. Then he warps stuff in at home to defend while dealing as much damage as possible.
Simply put, when the ramp is in a position like that, you want to engage the terran away from your main and natural. You don't want to engage right in your base. Or you want to go all in before he can (ie: 1-1-1).
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EPT
