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On February 01 2012 11:00 Jacobs Ladder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 10:50 Olinimm wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 zefreak wrote:
EG has no chance with ForGG, Supernova, Nada and Inca for JP why use inca against JYP? JYP has pretty good vP, whereas any terran on oGs will rape his face. While I agree, Inca's PvP is one of the best in the world.
yeaaaaah but in a team league its good to use more solid players then snipers, unless your super far ahead. If puma gets like 3kills it'll be better to send out Supernova or Nada, someone versatile in all matchups and can carry them
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omg, please make this a mined out game, I love theSTC's late game shenanigans, should be a great matchup
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On February 01 2012 10:59 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 10:53 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:52 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:47 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:44 kubiks wrote:On February 01 2012 10:40 blade55555 wrote:
lol I love people who go "omg rage LOL such bad gg timing" game was over. Drop in his main was going to rape his shit (he had 3 lings to defend and his whole army was on the other side of the map). He can't engage because PF + ghosts + 20 tanks + marines. Game was over lol don't know why idra went that ling/infestor style illusion kinda just countered it perfectly, abusing it with drops, etc. It's not a matter of if the game was over or not, but it's a teamleague, not a single player series. Stay just to make illusion tired is worth the shot, and with good control he could have won maybe He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly and idra just getting his 4'th when his terran opponent had been on a 4'th like forever. Let alone him making 3 more CC's. If idra came back it would be because zerg is OP (which their not) or he is hacking (which he's not)  If he's going to turtle IdrA would have had time to bank resources and tech switch to Blords right away after getting rid of Ultras. Saying he had no chance is pure ignorance. I guess you don't realize how good ghosts are vs broodlords and ultra's. The fact you don't know what you are talking about shows when you think broodlords (with his limited 3 base gas after having a ton of ultra's out so he would have had 5 broodlords maybe) that you don't know zvt late game very well especially vs a terran of illusions caliber. On February 01 2012 10:48 kubiks wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:44 kubiks wrote:On February 01 2012 10:40 blade55555 wrote:
lol I love people who go "omg rage LOL such bad gg timing" game was over. Drop in his main was going to rape his shit (he had 3 lings to defend and his whole army was on the other side of the map). He can't engage because PF + ghosts + 20 tanks + marines. Game was over lol don't know why idra went that ling/infestor style illusion kinda just countered it perfectly, abusing it with drops, etc. It's not a matter of if the game was over or not, but it's a teamleague, not a single player series. Stay just to make illusion tired is worth the shot, and with good control he could have won maybe He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly. Actually I think I saw a dimaga vs empireHappy with Happy going for tank/ghost, and dimaga still going ultra and win (after a 1h++ game :D). But obviously you want to have zerling/baneling (maybe more than ultras) with it, and engage properly the ennemy army. Not sure Irda is capable of that :D. I imagine if Dimaga won that he also wasn't down bases for the whole game am I correct in that? IdrA had already secured a 4th by the time he GG'd. Broodlords are THE end game unit vs Terran. That's why you have Queen+Infestor support which he already had, it would have been a proper switch. You are ignorant and clueless. You need to stop talking now. I am NOT defending IdrA. lol... Sigh again you showed me you have no idea how tvz works in the late game when the terran is actually good. ^^ Troll more? If you want to show me how it's done then go ahead. Problem is you aren't backing up anything and have been wrong so far in what you say (he had a 4th). People who keep arguing because their ego is hurt are annoying. IdrA had ONLY just got his fourth up, illusion was already getting extra OC's to start killing workers for supply and was getting ghosts. Along with his main force in the centre able to do nothing about the tanks and planetary fortress he was about to be reset to hatch tech by the triple drop just arriving in his main. EVEN if he had miraculously defended it and SOMEHOW got a greater spire out there would have been enough ghosts to EMP every queen and infestor with enough energy left to then snipe every brood lord out of the sky. Could IdrA have kept playing? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing for the team to tire illusion out a bit mentally? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing to allow the viewers a massive engagement and to get to see things blow up? Yes Could IdrA have won that game? 99.9% No
IdrA WAS behind. The point of my post was to show that he had a chance, however small (99.9% that's ridiculous, stop throwing out statistics please), not to show how he could win the game confidently. I don't like that he gave up and GG'd, that's what I'm defending.
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I would like Inca, the dark Knight want to do his job (and to be fair I was quite impressed by the way he beat bomber)
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On February 01 2012 11:00 FlyingDike wrote:
Is the stream lagging for anyone else?
Small spikes here and there, but not anything significant.
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On February 01 2012 11:00 Jacobs Ladder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 10:50 Olinimm wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 zefreak wrote:
EG has no chance with ForGG, Supernova, Nada and Inca for JP why use inca against JYP? JYP has pretty good vP, whereas any terran on oGs will rape his face. While I agree, Inca's PvP is one of the best in the world.
Then send him in against HuK. Fin, SuperNoVa and thestc are all basically free wins against JYP though.
PS: Pre-Congrats on 1337 posts
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On February 01 2012 11:00 Dexington wrote:
Puma just outclassed Illusion there. Kind of embarrassing for Demuslim and Idra after seeing that.
Puma is the king of the NASL for good reason.
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PuMa is far better than DeMusliM and IdrA. Not surprising.
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On February 01 2012 11:00 Jacobs Ladder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 10:50 Olinimm wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 zefreak wrote:
EG has no chance with ForGG, Supernova, Nada and Inca for JP why use inca against JYP? JYP has pretty good vP, whereas any terran on oGs will rape his face. While I agree, Inca's PvP is one of the best in the world.
It's top three. It's between either MC or Oz, but JYP is not slouch in vP either. It'd be interesting to see how it would stack up against Inca, especially when JYP hasnt faced a protoss of Inca's caliber.
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On February 01 2012 11:01 SC2NeCro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 10:59 mvtaylor wrote:On February 01 2012 10:53 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:52 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:47 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:44 kubiks wrote:On February 01 2012 10:40 blade55555 wrote:
lol I love people who go "omg rage LOL such bad gg timing" game was over. Drop in his main was going to rape his shit (he had 3 lings to defend and his whole army was on the other side of the map). He can't engage because PF + ghosts + 20 tanks + marines. Game was over lol don't know why idra went that ling/infestor style illusion kinda just countered it perfectly, abusing it with drops, etc. It's not a matter of if the game was over or not, but it's a teamleague, not a single player series. Stay just to make illusion tired is worth the shot, and with good control he could have won maybe He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly and idra just getting his 4'th when his terran opponent had been on a 4'th like forever. Let alone him making 3 more CC's. If idra came back it would be because zerg is OP (which their not) or he is hacking (which he's not) If he's going to turtle IdrA would have had time to bank resources and tech switch to Blords right away after getting rid of Ultras. Saying he had no chance is pure ignorance. I guess you don't realize how good ghosts are vs broodlords and ultra's. The fact you don't know what you are talking about shows when you think broodlords (with his limited 3 base gas after having a ton of ultra's out so he would have had 5 broodlords maybe) that you don't know zvt late game very well especially vs a terran of illusions caliber. On February 01 2012 10:48 kubiks wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:44 kubiks wrote:On February 01 2012 10:40 blade55555 wrote:
lol I love people who go "omg rage LOL such bad gg timing" game was over. Drop in his main was going to rape his shit (he had 3 lings to defend and his whole army was on the other side of the map). He can't engage because PF + ghosts + 20 tanks + marines. Game was over lol don't know why idra went that ling/infestor style illusion kinda just countered it perfectly, abusing it with drops, etc. It's not a matter of if the game was over or not, but it's a teamleague, not a single player series. Stay just to make illusion tired is worth the shot, and with good control he could have won maybe He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly. Actually I think I saw a dimaga vs empireHappy with Happy going for tank/ghost, and dimaga still going ultra and win (after a 1h++ game :D). But obviously you want to have zerling/baneling (maybe more than ultras) with it, and engage properly the ennemy army. Not sure Irda is capable of that :D. I imagine if Dimaga won that he also wasn't down bases for the whole game am I correct in that? IdrA had already secured a 4th by the time he GG'd. Broodlords are THE end game unit vs Terran. That's why you have Queen+Infestor support which he already had, it would have been a proper switch. You are ignorant and clueless. You need to stop talking now. I am NOT defending IdrA. lol... Sigh again you showed me you have no idea how tvz works in the late game when the terran is actually good. ^^ Troll more? If you want to show me how it's done then go ahead. Problem is you aren't backing up anything and have been wrong so far in what you say (he had a 4th). People who keep arguing because their ego is hurt are annoying. IdrA had ONLY just got his fourth up, illusion was already getting extra OC's to start killing workers for supply and was getting ghosts. Along with his main force in the centre able to do nothing about the tanks and planetary fortress he was about to be reset to hatch tech by the triple drop just arriving in his main. EVEN if he had miraculously defended it and SOMEHOW got a greater spire out there would have been enough ghosts to EMP every queen and infestor with enough energy left to then snipe every brood lord out of the sky. Could IdrA have kept playing? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing for the team to tire illusion out a bit mentally? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing to allow the viewers a massive engagement and to get to see things blow up? Yes Could IdrA have won that game? 99.9% No IdrA WAS behind. The point of my post was to show that he had a chance, however small (99.9% that's ridiculous, stop throwing out statistics please), not to show how he could win the game confidently. I don't like that he gave up and GG'd, that's what I'm defending.
What realistic chance?!
When you have only just built your fourth and haven't even begun mining from it yet, are about to lose all your tech in the main while your army in the centre on the map can't attack his army while he is also about to start saccing workers and is already producing ghosts what can you do as zerg?
Even if somehow magically the drop from illusion got cleared up without major loss he could have instantly remaxed, took the centre tower and cut IdrA off from his fourth, killed it and starved him.
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i never lost a game tvt where i go the reaper exp into shield mass rine vs banshee exp.
I never won a game other way round and i did both builds alot.
I know people dont want to see this and i dont say puma is not the better player but this game was lost/won before the loading screen.
Its just a cointhrow and caster and fans try to look away and talk about a awesome game...
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On February 01 2012 11:04 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 11:01 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:59 mvtaylor wrote:On February 01 2012 10:53 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:52 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:47 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:44 kubiks wrote:
[quote]
It's not a matter of if the game was over or not, but it's a teamleague, not a single player series. Stay just to make illusion tired is worth the shot, and with good control he could have won maybe He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly and idra just getting his 4'th when his terran opponent had been on a 4'th like forever. Let alone him making 3 more CC's. If idra came back it would be because zerg is OP (which their not) or he is hacking (which he's not) If he's going to turtle IdrA would have had time to bank resources and tech switch to Blords right away after getting rid of Ultras. Saying he had no chance is pure ignorance. I guess you don't realize how good ghosts are vs broodlords and ultra's. The fact you don't know what you are talking about shows when you think broodlords (with his limited 3 base gas after having a ton of ultra's out so he would have had 5 broodlords maybe) that you don't know zvt late game very well especially vs a terran of illusions caliber. On February 01 2012 10:48 kubiks wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:44 kubiks wrote:
[quote]
It's not a matter of if the game was over or not, but it's a teamleague, not a single player series. Stay just to make illusion tired is worth the shot, and with good control he could have won maybe He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly. Actually I think I saw a dimaga vs empireHappy with Happy going for tank/ghost, and dimaga still going ultra and win (after a 1h++ game :D). But obviously you want to have zerling/baneling (maybe more than ultras) with it, and engage properly the ennemy army. Not sure Irda is capable of that :D. I imagine if Dimaga won that he also wasn't down bases for the whole game am I correct in that? IdrA had already secured a 4th by the time he GG'd. Broodlords are THE end game unit vs Terran. That's why you have Queen+Infestor support which he already had, it would have been a proper switch. You are ignorant and clueless. You need to stop talking now. I am NOT defending IdrA. lol... Sigh again you showed me you have no idea how tvz works in the late game when the terran is actually good. ^^ Troll more? If you want to show me how it's done then go ahead. Problem is you aren't backing up anything and have been wrong so far in what you say (he had a 4th). People who keep arguing because their ego is hurt are annoying. IdrA had ONLY just got his fourth up, illusion was already getting extra OC's to start killing workers for supply and was getting ghosts. Along with his main force in the centre able to do nothing about the tanks and planetary fortress he was about to be reset to hatch tech by the triple drop just arriving in his main. EVEN if he had miraculously defended it and SOMEHOW got a greater spire out there would have been enough ghosts to EMP every queen and infestor with enough energy left to then snipe every brood lord out of the sky. Could IdrA have kept playing? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing for the team to tire illusion out a bit mentally? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing to allow the viewers a massive engagement and to get to see things blow up? Yes Could IdrA have won that game? 99.9% No IdrA WAS behind. The point of my post was to show that he had a chance, however small (99.9% that's ridiculous, stop throwing out statistics please), not to show how he could win the game confidently. I don't like that he gave up and GG'd, that's what I'm defending. What realistic chance?! When you have only just built your fourth and haven't even begun mining from it yet, are about to lose all your tech in the main while your army in the centre on the map can't attack his army while he is also about to start saccing workers and is already producing ghosts what can you do as zerg? Even if somehow magically the drop from illusion got cleared up without major loss he could have instantly remaxed, took the centre tower and cut IdrA off from his fourth, killed it and starved him.
If the drop was large enough to ruin all his production before he could get there then he would have had a solid chance to defeat the main army due to loss of the units. If it wasn't he would get back in times (Ultras/Lings are fast?) to save most of the structures. He had a small chance. Don't deny it.
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On February 01 2012 11:04 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 11:01 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:59 mvtaylor wrote:On February 01 2012 10:53 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:52 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:47 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:44 kubiks wrote:
[quote]
It's not a matter of if the game was over or not, but it's a teamleague, not a single player series. Stay just to make illusion tired is worth the shot, and with good control he could have won maybe He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly and idra just getting his 4'th when his terran opponent had been on a 4'th like forever. Let alone him making 3 more CC's. If idra came back it would be because zerg is OP (which their not) or he is hacking (which he's not) If he's going to turtle IdrA would have had time to bank resources and tech switch to Blords right away after getting rid of Ultras. Saying he had no chance is pure ignorance. I guess you don't realize how good ghosts are vs broodlords and ultra's. The fact you don't know what you are talking about shows when you think broodlords (with his limited 3 base gas after having a ton of ultra's out so he would have had 5 broodlords maybe) that you don't know zvt late game very well especially vs a terran of illusions caliber. On February 01 2012 10:48 kubiks wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:44 kubiks wrote:
[quote]
It's not a matter of if the game was over or not, but it's a teamleague, not a single player series. Stay just to make illusion tired is worth the shot, and with good control he could have won maybe He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly. Actually I think I saw a dimaga vs empireHappy with Happy going for tank/ghost, and dimaga still going ultra and win (after a 1h++ game :D). But obviously you want to have zerling/baneling (maybe more than ultras) with it, and engage properly the ennemy army. Not sure Irda is capable of that :D. I imagine if Dimaga won that he also wasn't down bases for the whole game am I correct in that? IdrA had already secured a 4th by the time he GG'd. Broodlords are THE end game unit vs Terran. That's why you have Queen+Infestor support which he already had, it would have been a proper switch. You are ignorant and clueless. You need to stop talking now. I am NOT defending IdrA. lol... Sigh again you showed me you have no idea how tvz works in the late game when the terran is actually good. ^^ Troll more? If you want to show me how it's done then go ahead. Problem is you aren't backing up anything and have been wrong so far in what you say (he had a 4th). People who keep arguing because their ego is hurt are annoying. IdrA had ONLY just got his fourth up, illusion was already getting extra OC's to start killing workers for supply and was getting ghosts. Along with his main force in the centre able to do nothing about the tanks and planetary fortress he was about to be reset to hatch tech by the triple drop just arriving in his main. EVEN if he had miraculously defended it and SOMEHOW got a greater spire out there would have been enough ghosts to EMP every queen and infestor with enough energy left to then snipe every brood lord out of the sky. Could IdrA have kept playing? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing for the team to tire illusion out a bit mentally? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing to allow the viewers a massive engagement and to get to see things blow up? Yes Could IdrA have won that game? 99.9% No IdrA WAS behind. The point of my post was to show that he had a chance, however small (99.9% that's ridiculous, stop throwing out statistics please), not to show how he could win the game confidently. I don't like that he gave up and GG'd, that's what I'm defending. What realistic chance?! When you have only just built your fourth and haven't even begun mining from it yet, are about to lose all your tech in the main while your army in the centre on the map can't attack his army while he is also about to start saccing workers and is already producing ghosts what can you do as zerg?
While I agree that his chance was close to zero, did anyone else watch MVP vs Leenock in GSL November, game 1 and 2? Its an amazing display of skill to see people stick around and survive as long as they possibly can, and sometimes make a comeback
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On February 01 2012 11:03 McFeser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 11:00 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On February 01 2012 10:50 Olinimm wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 zefreak wrote:
EG has no chance with ForGG, Supernova, Nada and Inca for JP why use inca against JYP? JYP has pretty good vP, whereas any terran on oGs will rape his face. While I agree, Inca's PvP is one of the best in the world. It's top three. It's between either MC or Oz, but JYP is not slouch in vP either. It'd be interesting to see how it would stack up against Inca, especially when JYP hasnt faced a protoss of Inca's caliber.
JYP vs MC was very close match in HomeStoryCup.
its between Oz,InCa and Inori.
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On February 01 2012 11:10 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 11:03 McFeser wrote:On February 01 2012 11:00 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On February 01 2012 10:50 Olinimm wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 zefreak wrote:
EG has no chance with ForGG, Supernova, Nada and Inca for JP why use inca against JYP? JYP has pretty good vP, whereas any terran on oGs will rape his face. While I agree, Inca's PvP is one of the best in the world. It's top three. It's between either MC or Oz, but JYP is not slouch in vP either. It'd be interesting to see how it would stack up against Inca, especially when JYP hasnt faced a protoss of Inca's caliber. JYP vs MC was very close match in HomeStoryCup. its between Oz,InCa and Inori.
MC has positive records vs both Inca and inori. In fact he is like 5-2 vs inori. Inori beat him just that one time, MC is a better pvper overall. MC and Oz have the best pvp.
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Goddammit, why can't Puma qualify for Code A?
Ugh.
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On February 01 2012 11:10 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 11:03 McFeser wrote:On February 01 2012 11:00 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On February 01 2012 10:50 Olinimm wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 zefreak wrote:
EG has no chance with ForGG, Supernova, Nada and Inca for JP why use inca against JYP? JYP has pretty good vP, whereas any terran on oGs will rape his face. While I agree, Inca's PvP is one of the best in the world. It's top three. It's between either MC or Oz, but JYP is not slouch in vP either. It'd be interesting to see how it would stack up against Inca, especially when JYP hasnt faced a protoss of Inca's caliber. JYP vs MC was very close match in HomeStoryCup. its between Oz,InCa and Inori.
Oh, I forgot about those matches - so yeah JYP is pretty good. Inori though is really overrated - he's 2 - 8 against Korean Protosses.
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On February 01 2012 11:11 Olinimm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 11:10 dragonborn wrote:On February 01 2012 11:03 McFeser wrote:On February 01 2012 11:00 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On February 01 2012 10:50 Olinimm wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 zefreak wrote:
EG has no chance with ForGG, Supernova, Nada and Inca for JP why use inca against JYP? JYP has pretty good vP, whereas any terran on oGs will rape his face. While I agree, Inca's PvP is one of the best in the world. It's top three. It's between either MC or Oz, but JYP is not slouch in vP either. It'd be interesting to see how it would stack up against Inca, especially when JYP hasnt faced a protoss of Inca's caliber. JYP vs MC was very close match in HomeStoryCup. its between Oz,InCa and Inori. MC has positive records vs both Inca and inori. In fact he is like 5-2 vs inori. Inori beat him just that one time, MC is a better pvper overall. MC and Oz have the best pvp.
PvP is MC's worst match up...
Oz,InCa and Inori definitely better than MC at PvP.
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On February 01 2012 11:07 SC2NeCro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 11:04 mvtaylor wrote:On February 01 2012 11:01 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:59 mvtaylor wrote:On February 01 2012 10:53 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:52 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:47 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:[quote] He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly and idra just getting his 4'th when his terran opponent had been on a 4'th like forever. Let alone him making 3 more CC's. If idra came back it would be because zerg is OP (which their not) or he is hacking (which he's not) If he's going to turtle IdrA would have had time to bank resources and tech switch to Blords right away after getting rid of Ultras. Saying he had no chance is pure ignorance. I guess you don't realize how good ghosts are vs broodlords and ultra's. The fact you don't know what you are talking about shows when you think broodlords (with his limited 3 base gas after having a ton of ultra's out so he would have had 5 broodlords maybe) that you don't know zvt late game very well especially vs a terran of illusions caliber. On February 01 2012 10:48 kubiks wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:
[quote]
He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly. Actually I think I saw a dimaga vs empireHappy with Happy going for tank/ghost, and dimaga still going ultra and win (after a 1h++ game :D). But obviously you want to have zerling/baneling (maybe more than ultras) with it, and engage properly the ennemy army. Not sure Irda is capable of that :D. I imagine if Dimaga won that he also wasn't down bases for the whole game am I correct in that? IdrA had already secured a 4th by the time he GG'd. Broodlords are THE end game unit vs Terran. That's why you have Queen+Infestor support which he already had, it would have been a proper switch. You are ignorant and clueless. You need to stop talking now. I am NOT defending IdrA. lol... Sigh again you showed me you have no idea how tvz works in the late game when the terran is actually good. ^^ Troll more? If you want to show me how it's done then go ahead. Problem is you aren't backing up anything and have been wrong so far in what you say (he had a 4th). People who keep arguing because their ego is hurt are annoying. IdrA had ONLY just got his fourth up, illusion was already getting extra OC's to start killing workers for supply and was getting ghosts. Along with his main force in the centre able to do nothing about the tanks and planetary fortress he was about to be reset to hatch tech by the triple drop just arriving in his main. EVEN if he had miraculously defended it and SOMEHOW got a greater spire out there would have been enough ghosts to EMP every queen and infestor with enough energy left to then snipe every brood lord out of the sky. Could IdrA have kept playing? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing for the team to tire illusion out a bit mentally? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing to allow the viewers a massive engagement and to get to see things blow up? Yes Could IdrA have won that game? 99.9% No IdrA WAS behind. The point of my post was to show that he had a chance, however small (99.9% that's ridiculous, stop throwing out statistics please), not to show how he could win the game confidently. I don't like that he gave up and GG'd, that's what I'm defending. What realistic chance?! When you have only just built your fourth and haven't even begun mining from it yet, are about to lose all your tech in the main while your army in the centre on the map can't attack his army while he is also about to start saccing workers and is already producing ghosts what can you do as zerg? Even if somehow magically the drop from illusion got cleared up without major loss he could have instantly remaxed, took the centre tower and cut IdrA off from his fourth, killed it and starved him. If the drop was large enough to ruin all his production before he could get there then he would have had a solid chance to defeat the main army due to loss of the units. If it wasn't he would get back in times (Ultras/Lings are fast?) to save most of the structures. He had a small chance. Don't deny it.
IdrA attempted to attack the centre, hence why he sent in the Infestors and Ultras but with tanks and a PF with SCVs ready to repair he would never have got through. He could have killed the PF but the losses would have been huge.
I'm not denying that IdrA had a 0% chance, it's just his chance of winning was mainly based on illusion dropping dead or one of their connections dying and then him winning a regame.
On February 01 2012 11:07 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 11:04 mvtaylor wrote:On February 01 2012 11:01 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:59 mvtaylor wrote:On February 01 2012 10:53 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:52 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:51 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 blade55555 wrote:On February 01 2012 10:47 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:[quote] He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly and idra just getting his 4'th when his terran opponent had been on a 4'th like forever. Let alone him making 3 more CC's. If idra came back it would be because zerg is OP (which their not) or he is hacking (which he's not) If he's going to turtle IdrA would have had time to bank resources and tech switch to Blords right away after getting rid of Ultras. Saying he had no chance is pure ignorance. I guess you don't realize how good ghosts are vs broodlords and ultra's. The fact you don't know what you are talking about shows when you think broodlords (with his limited 3 base gas after having a ton of ultra's out so he would have had 5 broodlords maybe) that you don't know zvt late game very well especially vs a terran of illusions caliber. On February 01 2012 10:48 kubiks wrote:On February 01 2012 10:45 blade55555 wrote:
[quote]
He could have tried tiring him out sure wouldn't have worked due to how much koreans play anyway but no he could not have won maybe. He had 0 chance unless illusion went AFK. That turtle style he was doing with mass tanks + ghosts and idra having ultra's trust me it gets raped really really really really really badly. Actually I think I saw a dimaga vs empireHappy with Happy going for tank/ghost, and dimaga still going ultra and win (after a 1h++ game :D). But obviously you want to have zerling/baneling (maybe more than ultras) with it, and engage properly the ennemy army. Not sure Irda is capable of that :D. I imagine if Dimaga won that he also wasn't down bases for the whole game am I correct in that? IdrA had already secured a 4th by the time he GG'd. Broodlords are THE end game unit vs Terran. That's why you have Queen+Infestor support which he already had, it would have been a proper switch. You are ignorant and clueless. You need to stop talking now. I am NOT defending IdrA. lol... Sigh again you showed me you have no idea how tvz works in the late game when the terran is actually good. ^^ Troll more? If you want to show me how it's done then go ahead. Problem is you aren't backing up anything and have been wrong so far in what you say (he had a 4th). People who keep arguing because their ego is hurt are annoying. IdrA had ONLY just got his fourth up, illusion was already getting extra OC's to start killing workers for supply and was getting ghosts. Along with his main force in the centre able to do nothing about the tanks and planetary fortress he was about to be reset to hatch tech by the triple drop just arriving in his main. EVEN if he had miraculously defended it and SOMEHOW got a greater spire out there would have been enough ghosts to EMP every queen and infestor with enough energy left to then snipe every brood lord out of the sky. Could IdrA have kept playing? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing for the team to tire illusion out a bit mentally? Yes Should IdrA have kept playing to allow the viewers a massive engagement and to get to see things blow up? Yes Could IdrA have won that game? 99.9% No IdrA WAS behind. The point of my post was to show that he had a chance, however small (99.9% that's ridiculous, stop throwing out statistics please), not to show how he could win the game confidently. I don't like that he gave up and GG'd, that's what I'm defending. What realistic chance?! When you have only just built your fourth and haven't even begun mining from it yet, are about to lose all your tech in the main while your army in the centre on the map can't attack his army while he is also about to start saccing workers and is already producing ghosts what can you do as zerg? While I agree that his chance was close to zero, did anyone else watch MVP vs Leenock in GSL November, game 1 and 2? Its an amazing display of skill to see people stick around and survive as long as they possibly can, and sometimes make a comeback
Oh indeed that was fantastic, the three marine push at the 32 minute mark and all. I'm not saying what IdrA did was right, he definitely should have stayed in the game, i'm just saying it was a lost game.
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On February 01 2012 11:13 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 11:11 Olinimm wrote:On February 01 2012 11:10 dragonborn wrote:On February 01 2012 11:03 McFeser wrote:On February 01 2012 11:00 Jacobs Ladder wrote:On February 01 2012 10:50 Olinimm wrote:On February 01 2012 10:49 zefreak wrote:
EG has no chance with ForGG, Supernova, Nada and Inca for JP why use inca against JYP? JYP has pretty good vP, whereas any terran on oGs will rape his face. While I agree, Inca's PvP is one of the best in the world. It's top three. It's between either MC or Oz, but JYP is not slouch in vP either. It'd be interesting to see how it would stack up against Inca, especially when JYP hasnt faced a protoss of Inca's caliber. JYP vs MC was very close match in HomeStoryCup. its between Oz,InCa and Inori. MC has positive records vs both Inca and inori. In fact he is like 5-2 vs inori. Inori beat him just that one time, MC is a better pvper overall. MC and Oz have the best pvp. PvP is MC's worst match up... Oz,InCa and Inori definitely better than MC at PvP.
How is inori better at PvP than MC? He is 2-8 in PvP and lost to MC like 3 times. MC also has basically the same win % as Inca but has more games than Inca and beat him. Inori is so overrated at that matchup it's not even funny.
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