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New Zealand46 Posts
On January 19 2012 21:47 MegaFonzie wrote:
Puzzle's play wasn't inspired sure, but it was solid. He played to win games, that's just how it is. I've seen enough of him in the past to know he isn't all about all in's and can play some pretty sweet protoss. He's one of the most dangerous player molds out there - he's capable and willing to hit you with cheese, but equally prepared to play a longer game. People will be worried about matching up against puzzle later in the tournament. That's exactly how every progamer should want it
Puzzle's play was far from 'solid' going 7 gate twice and void ray rushing are hardly consistent builds. Puzzle player riskily and got lucky...
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On January 19 2012 21:44 Corrosive wrote:
How to subtly balance whine without getting in trouble:
Say watching protoss is boring because of how the race is designed!
If a protoss does anything besides long 40 minute games it's an "all in" or its "cheese"
T-T
The only thing worse than watching Protoss do a 7 gate is watching Protoss play a 40 minute game. Protoss is boring, badly designed, and never fun to watch. Balance is a different concern.
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On January 19 2012 21:42 HeroUlyssess wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 21:41 xinxy wrote:On January 19 2012 21:40 avilo wrote:On January 19 2012 21:39 double620 wrote:
8 terrans in the ro16, but all the terrans are crying that they are too weak.
There were more Terrans than the other races at the start of the format to begin with...you realize that right? Which reinforces the point that Terran are still too strong? I mean if the tournament had nothing but T some of them would still be eliminated, you realize that right? More like the old Code S format made it very hard to drop out and hard to get into, and it just as easily could have been 15 Zergs in Code S or 15 protosses
This man speaks the truth  .
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On January 19 2012 21:41 xinxy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 21:40 avilo wrote:On January 19 2012 21:39 double620 wrote:
8 terrans in the ro16, but all the terrans are crying that they are too weak.
There were more Terrans than the other races at the start of the format to begin with...you realize that right? Which reinforces the point that Terran are still too strong? I mean if the tournament had nothing but T some of them would still be eliminated, you realize that right?
That fact is terran is the strongest race and that is why we have more terrans in codeS. And for toss, I really think we should only have 4 tosses and 4 zergs in ro16 if gom did not give 2 seeds to two foreign zergs.
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On January 19 2012 21:46 QNdie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 21:44 BrassMonkey27 wrote:On January 19 2012 21:42 labbe wrote:
Blizzard better fix the protoss race in Heart of the Swarm. They are just sooo boring to watch no matter what race they face, but PvT is the worst. Sucks to watch starcraft when you know beforehand that every match including a protoss will be boring to watch. Starts and ends with the Marauder man. Most boring unit in a starcraft game. Takes very little skill to use, is extremely powerful, and if they die the Terran is fucked. The unit needs a complete redesign or be replaced with something else. Not to mention they are ugly to look at! Fixed that for ya.
Not a fan of the Marauder either, remove them both IMO:
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On January 19 2012 21:49 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 21:44 Corrosive wrote:
How to subtly balance whine without getting in trouble:
Say watching protoss is boring because of how the race is designed!
If a protoss does anything besides long 40 minute games it's an "all in" or its "cheese"
T-T The only thing worse than watching Protoss do a 7 gate is watching Protoss play a 40 minute game. Protoss is boring, badly designed, and never fun to watch. Balance is a different concern.
Translation: I play T, P smash! rarrrrr 
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On January 19 2012 21:47 R!! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 21:39 xinxy wrote:
The Terran tears in this thread are pretty delicious I gotta say. I mean there's as many T left in r16 as P and Z combined but that won't stop cries of imbalance apparently. It must be absolute Terran majority for the game to be "balanced". Except the percentage of protoss players going through is bigger whilst their skill definetely isn't ( 7gate 7gate vray allin, macro game = 20 min without starting +1 armor).
Balance:
- Terran have the strongest and most versatile 1 base all ins (we can argue this, but it's the truth).
- Protoss have the strongest and most versatile 2 base all ins (we can argue this, but it's the truth).
- Zerg have the strongest and most versatile macro, by producing workers and or workers from the same source and not needing multiple production buildings.
Learning how to hold and defend against protoss 2 base all ins are basically pretty much what higher end ZvP is about.
That Terran needs to learn to do the same is just as it should be.
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On January 19 2012 21:48 Blitzer wrote:
Pretty solid night of sc2 I thought. You wouldn't say anyone really demolished their opposition but the games were all at a decent level. Parting definitely has some nice moves and Puzzle alternates between brilliance and mediocre play, so just needs to find some consistency.
As for race balance I wouldn't be too worried for the zerg race yet for this GSL. As long as their big guns Leenock, DRG and Nestea are around, its quite possible for them to go a long, long way possibly even win outright. I'm hoping to see a lot more pvz's in the future though as its my favourite matchup by far to watch.
Leenock didnt advance to r16. I believe its curious nestea and drg.
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On January 19 2012 21:42 StarscreamG1 wrote:
Why no games next week? -.-
Code A plus GSTL
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On January 19 2012 21:47 R!! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 21:39 xinxy wrote:
The Terran tears in this thread are pretty delicious I gotta say. I mean there's as many T left in r16 as P and Z combined but that won't stop cries of imbalance apparently. It must be absolute Terran majority for the game to be "balanced". Except the percentage of protoss players going through is bigger whilst their skill definetely isn't ( 7gate 7gate vray allin, macro game = 20 min without starting +1 armor).
Yeah, go ahead and stick to talking about unquantifiable things like skill while we talk pure, objective numbers. Your statement about lacking +1 armor by 20 minutes in is also kind of funny. You must really be reaching if you had to use that as one of your criticisms.
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On January 19 2012 21:46 labbe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 21:44 BrassMonkey27 wrote:On January 19 2012 21:42 labbe wrote:
Blizzard better fix the protoss race in Heart of the Swarm. They are just sooo boring to watch no matter what race they face, but PvT is the worst. Sucks to watch starcraft when you know beforehand that every match including a protoss will be boring to watch. Starts and ends with the Collossi man. Most boring unit in a starcraft game. Takes very little skill to use, is extremely powerful, and if they die the Toss is fucked. The unit needs a complete redesign or be replaced with something else. Not to mention they are ugly to look at! This is pretty much it, I just don't think that Blizzard realizes this.
This is all so true. The warp gate mechanics encourage all in gateway play but even if you decide to tech up we have the king of all A move units waiting - The Colossous - This mofo doesn't even care for units, cliffs or forcefields in its way :/
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
On January 19 2012 21:50 Pajegetc wrote:Code A plus GSTL
No, no games at all for Lunar new year I believe.
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sigh... i must be the only one who thinks tvt is boring as hell. I like PvX good ff and storms give a nice "Wow" factor.
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We might see some more of Keen in an hour with the KSL match between MVP and ZeNex, if he's not too tired.
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On January 19 2012 21:46 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 21:42 HeroUlyssess wrote:On January 19 2012 21:41 xinxy wrote:On January 19 2012 21:40 avilo wrote:On January 19 2012 21:39 double620 wrote:
8 terrans in the ro16, but all the terrans are crying that they are too weak.
There were more Terrans than the other races at the start of the format to begin with...you realize that right? Which reinforces the point that Terran are still too strong? I mean if the tournament had nothing but T some of them would still be eliminated, you realize that right? More like the old Code S format made it very hard to drop out and hard to get into, and it just as easily could have been 15 Zergs in Code S or 15 protosses We can spend all day talking about hypotheticals but the fact is that overall, Terran statistically has had an edge in Korea for a significant portion of last year, and it shows in the racial distribution of Code S towards the end of last year. Also, even if you want to make the argument that it's very hard to drop out and very hard to get into, then you also have to acknowledge the fact that despite how hard you say it was to get into Code S with the old format, a disproportionate of Terrans managed to do so to make it so that there were roughly 20 Terrans for a couple seasons.
They managed to do that ages ago, and stayed there because the format made it so, which created a false sense of terran dominance.
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On January 19 2012 21:52 Severian wrote:
We might see some more of Keen in an hour with the KSL match between MVP and ZeNex, if he's not too tired.
Not sure if Keen is in the right mentality to go out :/ But it's ZeNex, so it should be a stomp with or without Keen anyway.
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On January 19 2012 21:50 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 21:49 forsooth wrote:On January 19 2012 21:44 Corrosive wrote:
How to subtly balance whine without getting in trouble:
Say watching protoss is boring because of how the race is designed!
If a protoss does anything besides long 40 minute games it's an "all in" or its "cheese"
T-T The only thing worse than watching Protoss do a 7 gate is watching Protoss play a 40 minute game. Protoss is boring, badly designed, and never fun to watch. Balance is a different concern. Translation: I play T, P smash! rarrrrr
Except I thoroughly enjoy watching Zerg play as well, and even ZvZ. And I used to play Protoss in BW. Still do sometimes. This isn't some expression of rage about losing TvP on ladder too much. I actually do fine vs Protoss. That doesn't make Protoss well designed or interesting to play or watch, however.
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New Zealand46 Posts
On January 19 2012 21:52 R!! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 21:46 HolyArrow wrote:On January 19 2012 21:42 HeroUlyssess wrote:On January 19 2012 21:41 xinxy wrote:On January 19 2012 21:40 avilo wrote:On January 19 2012 21:39 double620 wrote:
8 terrans in the ro16, but all the terrans are crying that they are too weak.
There were more Terrans than the other races at the start of the format to begin with...you realize that right? Which reinforces the point that Terran are still too strong? I mean if the tournament had nothing but T some of them would still be eliminated, you realize that right? More like the old Code S format made it very hard to drop out and hard to get into, and it just as easily could have been 15 Zergs in Code S or 15 protosses We can spend all day talking about hypotheticals but the fact is that overall, Terran statistically has had an edge in Korea for a significant portion of last year, and it shows in the racial distribution of Code S towards the end of last year. Also, even if you want to make the argument that it's very hard to drop out and very hard to get into, then you also have to acknowledge the fact that despite how hard you say it was to get into Code S with the old format, a disproportionate of Terrans managed to do so to make it so that there were roughly 20 Terrans for a couple seasons. They managed to do that ages ago, and stayed there because the format made it so, which created a false sense of terran dominance.
My point exactly, thank you.
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On January 19 2012 21:49 HeroUlyssess wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 21:47 MegaFonzie wrote:
Puzzle's play wasn't inspired sure, but it was solid. He played to win games, that's just how it is. I've seen enough of him in the past to know he isn't all about all in's and can play some pretty sweet protoss. He's one of the most dangerous player molds out there - he's capable and willing to hit you with cheese, but equally prepared to play a longer game. People will be worried about matching up against puzzle later in the tournament. That's exactly how every progamer should want it Puzzle's play was far from 'solid' going 7 gate twice and void ray rushing are hardly consistent builds. Puzzle player riskily and got lucky...
I'll accept there were some risks involved, that's generally the way with all ins. His 7gate worked in two vastly different circumstances and the void ray build is a super smart choice for a map like Dual Sight. His builds were practiced, refined, a bit risky, but overall, intelligent.
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Balance:
- Terran have the strongest and most versatile 1 base all ins (we can argue this, but it's the truth).
- Protoss have the strongest and most versatile 2 base all ins (we can argue this, but it's the truth).
- Zerg have the strongest and most versatile macro, by producing workers and or workers from the same source and not needing multiple production buildings.
Learning how to hold and defend against protoss 2 base all ins are basically pretty much what higher end ZvP is about.
That Terran needs to learn to do the same is just as it should be.
Agreed. But Protoss also have a stronger late game army vs T. This is true for T v Z as well, T has a better late game with ghost vs zergs.
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EPT
