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Let's have a nice clean LR thread folks! Beware that moderation will probably be stricter than usual, balance whine, player bashing and trolling will not be tolerated! |
On January 11 2012 21:53 bittman wrote:Nah ghost whine inc. Something about how it counters everything Zerg or something silly
Yes. And I just want to say why Day9 dislikes the idea of "counters". It completely ignores everything else going on the the game.
But if the zergs feel better believing their huge 48.4% win ratio disadvantage is caused by the horribly imbalanced t late game, I can't really bother caring.
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On January 11 2012 21:59 iky43210 wrote:
ghost are NOT good against lings... sure they 2 shot them, but with such slow attack speed and ling's incredible dps lings will destroy ghosts at just 1/2 resource costs.
Ultra/bane/ling is actually decent against heavy ghost composition. Ultra can tank 11 snipes, and bane/ling forces ghost to either die and snipe ultras or run and try to get away
he had no larvae for ling/bane
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On January 11 2012 21:59 iky43210 wrote:
ghost are NOT good against lings... sure they 2 shot them, but with such slow attack speed and ling's incredible dps lings will destroy ghosts at just 1/2 resource costs.
Ultra/bane/ling is actually decent against heavy ghost composition. Ultra can tank 11 snipes, and bane/ling forces ghost to either die and snipe ultras or run and try to get away
Show me your larva when your hatcheries gets nuked 15 times.
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Australia18228 Posts
On January 11 2012 22:00 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 21:59 snafoo wrote:On January 11 2012 21:58 R!! wrote:On January 11 2012 21:56 OrangeSoda wrote:On January 11 2012 21:55 neoghaleon55 wrote:On January 11 2012 21:54 Sub40APM wrote:On January 11 2012 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
An hive-tech energy-regeneration upgrade for infestor...hmm? Im just shooting ideas here but I think something feels slightly shewed in these late-game scenarios for zerg against a bazillion ghosts.
BTW, AMAAAAZING game and play from MVP. He simply is the god among men. yah i mean, if you let terran to turrtle up to 20 ghosts...what can you do Do what DRG does, Ultrabanelings>>ghosts haha ultras vs 20 ghosts, you are funny  Pretty sure that 15 ultras backed up by infestors eat ghosts like np. i hope you're joking.... lol How so? Ultra/banes with some Infestors to Fungal the Ghost squad does work.
The problem is that with MVP, he has the APM to not only mass-snipe but also split the ghosts and EMP the infestors as you're coming forward, so it's extremely hard to pull off. A Terran who doesn't practise these type of strategies (like ForGG's game) wouldn't be sure of how to fight the Ultra/ling/infestor composition, and surely would get rolled by it.
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On January 11 2012 21:59 iky43210 wrote:
ghost are NOT good against lings... sure they 2 shot them, but with such slow attack speed and ling's incredible dps lings will destroy ghosts at just 1/2 resource costs.
Ultra/bane/ling is actually decent against heavy ghost composition. Ultra can tank 11 snipes, and bane/ling forces ghost to either die and snipe ultras or run and try to get away
There's a reason MVP build tanks and 3 planetaries where he was standing... Ultras and Lings are not good against those...
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On January 11 2012 21:59 NipponBanzai wrote:
Lolwut? Do you people even play this game? I can bank a ton of fucking money and still be behind in macro, army size and composition, tech, any number of things.
It matters when progressing into the late-game where both players have already maxed. Having a bank allows you to remax faster (given that you've macro'd correctly also so you have the correct production facilities to quickly remax).
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United Kingdom38212 Posts
Just thinking that it's a bit tough for Lucky, he got dumped into a group with MVP and NesTea but on the evidence of his later ZvT's and his decent ZvZ I think he might have had a shot at advancing out of some of the other groups. Ah well, he's a good enough player to bounce back through Code A.
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On January 11 2012 21:58 Seeker wrote:
MVP WINS!!!
NESTEA WINS!!!
IdrA/Lucky .......:/
BUT ON THE BRIGHT SIDE - 4/4 LIQUIBETS FUCK YEAH!!
Most people will have 4/4 Liquibets today, i guess.
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On January 11 2012 21:57 BrassMonkey27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 21:56 bittman wrote:On January 11 2012 21:54 Sub40APM wrote:On January 11 2012 21:52 LittLeD wrote:
An hive-tech energy-regeneration upgrade for infestor...hmm? Im just shooting ideas here but I think something feels slightly shewed in these late-game scenarios for zerg against a bazillion ghosts.
BTW, AMAAAAZING game and play from MVP. He simply is the god among men. yah i mean, if you let terran to turrtle up to 20 ghosts...what can you do Banelings. Ghosts don't outrun blings. Of course that's only from what I've seen in non MVP games. I'm yet to see MVP lose lategame TvZ with ghosts... But then tanks are a problem. I'm fairly sure tanks counter banelings, correct? 
As a transition from a big battle with BL's, usually even if the BL's have died they've at least lessened tank numbers (or done 0 damage) and terran will now have a lot of vikings.
Of course pure bling isn't what I'm saying, someone suggested ultra bling which sounds good. Ultra takes tank shots, blings get ghosts. Roach infestor bling might work as well.
But to backtrack a little bit, I do agree that ghosts might be too advantageous currently in TvZ lategame. I just think that given it's still a rare occurrence we probably haven't seen properly fleshed out counters develop from top Zerg players. Instead they all continue to look lost. More famously so Nestea at Blizzcon and July in GSL September/October. But as MVP is almost the only TvZ player we see this from, and even then 1 game in a series, it's hard to see proper counters being developed and put into action yet.
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Another thing, lucky had a lot of spines but not enough spores, once the terran reaches a high number of ghosts he also can't attack, he has to wait for the attack to come to him or harass with nukes, but spores everywhere prevent that, darkforce beat mvp using way more ghosts than he had in this game.
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On January 11 2012 22:01 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 21:59 iky43210 wrote:
ghost are NOT good against lings... sure they 2 shot them, but with such slow attack speed and ling's incredible dps lings will destroy ghosts at just 1/2 resource costs.
Ultra/bane/ling is actually decent against heavy ghost composition. Ultra can tank 11 snipes, and bane/ling forces ghost to either die and snipe ultras or run and try to get away Show me your larva when your hatcheries gets nuked 15 times.
What does that have to do with whether or not lings, roaches, and banelings are good against ghosts? If you know your opponent is going for mass nukes and you don't set up a spore/spine network to keep the ghosts away, it's your fault.
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So am I really the only person who noticed Lucky clumping his Corruptors up ludicrously as they all got pummelled by Thor volleys? It was the air battle that decisively won that engagement for MVP, and Lucky lost a huge amount of Corruptor HP because of clumping vs. Thors. Nothing to do with Ghosts at all.
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On January 11 2012 22:01 Asha` wrote:
Just thinking that it's a bit tough for Lucky, he got dumped into a group with MVP and NesTea but on the evidence of his later ZvT's and his decent ZvZ I think he might have had a shot at advancing out of some of the other groups. Ah well, he's a good enough player to bounce back through Code A.
He's got the winner of Taeja / Hyun in Code A, but I do agree I think Lucky has a good shot of getting back to Code S. If not straight away, at the very least in the Up/Downs.
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The results are too obvious. Anyone who thought otherwiswe… well go to ya buddy. Anyway, hopefully NesTea can win this season. He beat Mvp in a best of 3. Gonna watch later. Sad or IdrA though.
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On January 11 2012 22:01 Asha` wrote:
Just thinking that it's a bit tough for Lucky, he got dumped into a group with MVP and NesTea but on the evidence of his later ZvT's and his decent ZvZ I think he might have had a shot at advancing out of some of the other groups. Ah well, he's a good enough player to bounce back through Code A.
Hopefully he got some people who thought he was lucky to get in code S to think again. Hes a really good zerg player who just had one of the hardest groups
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On January 11 2012 22:01 blacksheepwall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 21:59 NipponBanzai wrote:
Lolwut? Do you people even play this game? I can bank a ton of fucking money and still be behind in macro, army size and composition, tech, any number of things. It matters when progressing into the late-game where both players have already maxed. Having a bank allows you to remax faster (given that you've macro'd correctly also so you have the correct production facilities to quickly remax).
No kidding. Zergs can remax quickly with a decent bank. What does that have to do with lucky being behind all game?
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baneling/roach is actually how you beat mass ghosts lategame, you don't have to believe me, but ghosts are awful against both these units and 3/3 roaches eat planetaries and tanks alive in the lategame.
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On January 11 2012 21:58 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 21:55 Ryps wrote:
Why was that game so good ? The nukes were fun but all they did is macro up and ghosts killing everything, seemed too onesided to be fun. I am not whining about ghosts,, Hrm? There was a ton of harass, MVP hit two seperate timings, one of which killed 20 or so drones and a hatch, the other which Lucky held with a nice roach flank. It quieted down a bit once it hit the 4 base stage but there was still plenty of things going on all over the map. There were lots of nice little things too like Lucky getting OS speed so his muta + OS could be a mobile ghost sniper, having patrolling OS's on the pathways to avoid cloaked ghosts sneaking up on him etc. MVP did that awesome nuke drop and set aside one ghost to snipe out incoming overseers while his other ghosts did the actual nuking. There was a lot of really high level play from both, and the action was pretty constant for what was basically a split map scenario.
The game wasn't as good partially because MVP never seemed like he was in any danger of losing. Needed more drama.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
All the whine is neglecting the fact that MVP did tons of damage (even though it was sometimes not cost efficient) the entire game, and didn't solely turtle. Even at the end Lucky didn't have the larvae (because of sniped hatches and nukes which kill all larva) to replenish with anything other than the most expensive units (infestor/ultra) which wasn't enough without meat shields like lings.
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EPT
