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On December 21 2011 21:35 MiraMax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 21:27 Logros wrote:On December 21 2011 21:25 Assirra wrote:On December 21 2011 21:24 Logros wrote:On December 21 2011 21:23 Assirra wrote:On December 21 2011 21:22 Sea_Food wrote:
A korean throws away a game that means 2 pro gamers drop to code A. No problem.
A forgeiner throws away a meaningless game. No code S for him. Dont...even...start. It's true though. was this match less then a minute? if not its not even compareable. And that means the match wasn't thrown? Use your brain this is what Tyler mentioned before as well, it's exactly the same thing except less obvious. Zenio does a quick all-in, Inca scouts it way before it hits and 'accidentaly' leaves a gap in his wall. He even had 1 pylon powering like 3 buildings and 3-4 cannons but Zenio didn't go for it. He served the game up on a silver platter for Zenio. It's exactly NOT the same thing precisely because it is "less obvious". Failed wall-ins do happen - 7probe rushes do not. Sure, it might be that Inca threw the game intentionally, but you have to give players the benefit of the doubt, especially if they are well-known for blundering like this, but not for throwing games. It also serves to show how damaging Naniwas move was, because now everybody will start crying "cheater" and asking for "just punishment" at every instance.
Match throwing existed long before Naniwa, don't be ridiculous.
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It's not just the gap that is suspicious, it's also the artosis pylon, which was powering like the forge, a gateway and 3 cannons and was easily snipable. Even myself who never played protoss was like "wtf, put another pylon or it will get sniped".
I'm pretty sure he's done that on purpose
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On December 21 2011 21:36 zerino wrote:that picture, with people talking about letting him win was removed fast  ?
It's still there.
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Hey look, code S finalist is back where he belongs!
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On December 21 2011 21:37 0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 21:36 zerino wrote:that picture, with people talking about letting him win was removed fast ? because it was fake ?
how do you know?
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On December 21 2011 21:28 SuperFanBoy wrote:
The reason I say he threw the game away was not because he left a gap in his wall, but the fact he had 800 minerals and built a tonne of gateways in his main instead of re-walling off to stop the zerglings from reinforcing.. every pro gamer knows once they break the wall you must re-wall off to stop them from streaming in.. any high level player can see that was a throw away.
let me guess you are a high level pro gamer?
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Scouts the all-in multiple times, fails to wall in 40 seconds, fails to power everything with more than 1 pylon, fails to re-wall to stop reinforcing lings despite a huge mineral stockpile and void rays cleaning up. I wish it could be proved 100% but I'll have to settle with inca's rep being dirt from now on. I'm sure the korean netizens are up in arms about this as well.
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I hope they fix the format so this kind of akwardness possibility of suspicion of match throwing isn't possible anymore.
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On December 21 2011 21:35 silverstyle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 21:28 tree.hugger wrote:
If InCa had meant to give the game away, I can't imagine why he'd have scouted and pressured with those two early zealots. Better to just get 'surprised' by what Zenio does, or lose the game through passivity, no? Doesn't make sense to build five cannons and then misplace a building, that's not a good way to purposely lose the game. ^This was what I was thinking too, if I was Inca and wanted to throw the game I wouldn't have scouted and went for DTs straight up, perhaps with some minute delays between each building, that way if Zenio busted my front there was nothing that I could do and no one would say anything. IMO no matter what Inca did, if he made ANY MISTAKES AT ALL during the match, losira and polt fans would still cry foul. I'm sure Inca would know of the shitstorm that would ensue if he lost by making bad mistakes, but well... its Inca?
There are any number of ways to throw a game. Perhaps the most subtle is to not make any attacks that could kill your opponent.
I'm sad this community can't focus on what is important, so we wouldn't have this format and these arguments.
It doesn't matter whether or not he intentionally threw the game or didn't play at his best because he was already through even if he lost, what matters is that because of the format he could.
It's a bad format that is unfair to the players who don't get to face an opponent who may or may not give it their best because they're already through, and it's a bad format because it gives incentive for matchmaking (that doesn't have to planned) when a player who is already through faces a friend or teammate.
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On December 21 2011 21:34 Logros wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 21:33 GrungyMunchy wrote:
To all the people bitching:
It was Losira's and Polt's fault that they're not in Code S right now. Should they won the matches as someone of Code S level is expected to, and there wouldn't be any issue. And that makes it fine to just throw matches like that? This isn't about Losira or Polt not getting Code S, it's about throwing a match when there is actually something at stake, while Naniwa missed Code S for throwing a match that ment nothing,
How is the difference not completely fucking obvious? We can't prove Inca threw his match, but we know Naniwa threw his (took his hands off the keyboard) and he even admitted it. It's an issue with the format in the Inca case and Gom needs to fix it--what they don't need to do is punish Inca for potentially throwing a match when there's no way they can prove it.
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On December 21 2011 21:35 MiraMax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 21:27 Logros wrote:On December 21 2011 21:25 Assirra wrote:On December 21 2011 21:24 Logros wrote:On December 21 2011 21:23 Assirra wrote:On December 21 2011 21:22 Sea_Food wrote:
A korean throws away a game that means 2 pro gamers drop to code A. No problem.
A forgeiner throws away a meaningless game. No code S for him. Dont...even...start. It's true though. was this match less then a minute? if not its not even compareable. And that means the match wasn't thrown? Use your brain this is what Tyler mentioned before as well, it's exactly the same thing except less obvious. Zenio does a quick all-in, Inca scouts it way before it hits and 'accidentaly' leaves a gap in his wall. He even had 1 pylon powering like 3 buildings and 3-4 cannons but Zenio didn't go for it. He served the game up on a silver platter for Zenio. It's exactly NOT the same thing precisely because it is "less obvious". Failed wall-ins do happen - 7probe rushes do not. Sure, it might be that Inca threw the game intentionally, but you have to give players the benefit of the doubt, especially if they are well-known for blundering like this, but not for throwing games. It also serves to show how damaging Naniwas move was, because now everybody will start crying "cheater" and asking for "just punishment" at every instance.
I don't think all that many people want Inca to be punished, but are just pointing out how unfair it was that Naniwa was punished.
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On December 21 2011 21:37 SkullZ9 wrote:
It's not just the gap that is suspicious, it's also the artosis pylon, which was powering like the forge, a gateway and 3 cannons and was easily snipable. Even myself who never played protoss was like "wtf, put another pylon or it will get sniped".
I'm pretty sure he's done that on purpose
Just like Artosis did when he created the Artosis pylon?!
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A format is bad when one player has nothing to lose, with the other everything to win. Of course the latter is going to take that game more often than not, his mindset won't be affected by various auxiliary issues. Zenio might still have taken that game anyway, but he was ahead from the start.
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On December 21 2011 21:35 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 21:34 Yaki wrote:On December 21 2011 21:33 GrungyMunchy wrote:
To all the people bitching:
It was Losira's and Polt's fault that they're not in Code S right now. Should they won the matches as someone of Code S level is expected to, and there wouldn't be any issue. Ever heard of bo1 ? Ever heard of preparation? It's Inca. He goes DTs What did they not prepare for? What did they lose to? Its 100% their fault...
Polt and Losira aside, Inca clearly threw the game and that should not have happened he should have played the game just like MC gave his all against DRG on Crossfire even though it was meaningless for him : that's called sportsmanship.
Ever heard of it ?
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On December 21 2011 21:36 _DarkArchon_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 21:29 elwoodng wrote:
The difference is Inca is smart enough to make it look like a mistake. Agreed. Thats the beauty of it, it's virtually impossible to "know" it was a throw. After the Naniwa/Coca shitstorm ppl are going to be more careful when they decide to throw a match.
IIRC GOM puts a game they think is thrown in front of a group of unaffiliated(in this case non TSL, oGs, Liquid, IM) Progamers to review whether it was thrown or not.
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I hope they fix the format so this kind of akwardness and possibility of suspicion of match throwing isn't possible anymore.
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If i was in that situation i would let my friend win for sure. Im pretty sure the majority of people claiming they would not let their friend win are just lying.
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On December 21 2011 21:37 zerino wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 21:37 0ne wrote:On December 21 2011 21:36 zerino wrote:that picture, with people talking about letting him win was removed fast ? because it was fake ? how do you know?
There was no source and they were talking in english wtf
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On December 21 2011 21:38 Grumbels wrote:
A format is bad when one player has nothing to lose, with the other everything to win. Of course the latter is going to take that game more often than not, his mindset won't be affected by various auxiliary issues. Zenio might still have taken that game anyway, but he was ahead from the start.
This happens in every sport
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On December 21 2011 21:22 Sea_Food wrote:
A korean throws away a game that means 2 pro gamers drop to code A. No problem.
A forgeiner throws away a meaningless game. No code S for him.
Much in (not only) the Korean culture is based on appearances and outward respect. Naniwa should have made a little effort for a 4gate, then noone would have been offended.
It's like when your boss expects you to do something meaningless and you a) pretend you were so loaded with work that you simply forgot (Inca way) or you b) piss on his desk and tell him where he can shove his meaningless job (Naniwa way).
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EPT
