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No player/caster bashing, or balance whining. Bans will be handed out like candy. (page 217)
No sexist jokes or anything of that nature either. Be mature people. |
On November 19 2011 20:30 DBrave wrote:
Guys I have a question. I didn't watch last night and I need recommendations.
Ofc I'm gonna watch Idra vs Nestea and Nani vs MVP.
But what about the rest of day1, is there any games worth watching or should i just skip and w8 for day2 to start ?
I see casted games in OP but they don't sound interesting at all..
THX in advance
Well other than the ones you mentioned plus of course Naniwa vs NesTea and perhaps HerO vs Puzzle there wasn't a lot of interesting stuff being broadcasted, I agree  Day 2 should bring a lot more awesome matches. Too bad they didn't broadcast Leenock vs Oz 
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On November 19 2011 20:30 DBrave wrote:
Guys I have a question. I didn't watch last night and I need recommendations.
Ofc I'm gonna watch Idra vs Nestea and Nani vs MVP.
But what about the rest of day1, is there any games worth watching or should i just skip and w8 for day2 to start ?
I see casted games in OP but they don't sound interesting at all..
THX in advance
watch Hero vs Jinro from one of the beta streams
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France13021 Posts
How did Gatored beat GanZi?
Terran is so strong, why not nerf them again, this is getting ridiculous :D.
Oh and it's funny how people were saying that Leenock ZvP is bad, but then he manages to crush Huk and Oz (the "protoss hero" coming of nowhere, since he didn't seem that good in GSTL with FXO) =), gogo Leenock show them what you are made of young boy
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Idra vs Nestea were fantastic matches.
I did not enjoy Naniwa's matches as much as it seems like he was flipping coins to try and get an advantage vs players he feared in a proper game. The exception ofc being the first game vs MvP which was nice watching.
The nestea games were one long facepalm from me, Nestea didnt play up to his standards and Naniwa just flipped coins like there was no tomorrow.
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On November 19 2011 21:08 TheBamf wrote:
Idra vs Nestea were fantastic matches.
I did not enjoy Naniwa's matches as much as it seems like he was flipping coins to try and get an advantage vs players he feared in a proper game. The exception ofc being the first game vs MvP which was nice watching.
The nestea games were one long facepalm from me, Nestea didnt play up to his standards and Naniwa just flipped coins like there was no tomorrow.
Are you sure you fully understood what happened? Because that's such a flawed view of this game. Every investment, be it in economy, harassment, a timing or otherwise, comes with a risk. It's all about taking the right risks based on map, opponent, scouting intel and a multitude of other little variables depending on the way the game plays out.
All series were great imo.
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On November 19 2011 21:08 TheBamf wrote:
Idra vs Nestea were fantastic matches.
I did not enjoy Naniwa's matches as much as it seems like he was flipping coins to try and get an advantage vs players he feared in a proper game. The exception ofc being the first game vs MvP which was nice watching.
The nestea games were one long facepalm from me, Nestea didnt play up to his standards and Naniwa just flipped coins like there was no tomorrow.
You take everything Artosis say literary?
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Naniwa won vs Nestea? Oh what the FUCK YEAH
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On November 19 2011 21:19 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 21:08 TheBamf wrote:
Idra vs Nestea were fantastic matches.
I did not enjoy Naniwa's matches as much as it seems like he was flipping coins to try and get an advantage vs players he feared in a proper game. The exception ofc being the first game vs MvP which was nice watching.
The nestea games were one long facepalm from me, Nestea didnt play up to his standards and Naniwa just flipped coins like there was no tomorrow. Are you sure you fully understood what happened? Because that's such a flawed view of this game. Every investment, be it in economy, harassment, a timing or otherwise, comes with a risk. It's all about taking the right risks based on map, opponent, scouting intel and a multitude of other little variables depending on the way the game plays out. All series were great imo.
Indeed. It's not like Naniwa was scared and cheesed. He prepared specific strategies, practiced them and executed vs oponnents that he have studied before. People can't tell the diffirence between cheese and specific timing attack/strategy.
Knowing Naniwas determination and that it was finals of the tournament, he worked alot on those timings, knowing that they have high chance of winning/getting an advantage vs those opponents.
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I never saw Gatored play, but he took out DRG and TOP at iem and now 2-0 against Ganzi? impressive
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I do not see how I my view is flawed. A no block expansion into void ray all in is a HUGE risk, the DT rush first game and the 16 nexus last game. He cut huge corners to try to get an advantage on the off chance that it worked. And It did, it was some really good 2 base all-ins but it was still dull to watch because the whole game balanced on such shaky grounds while idra and nesteas matches were proper micro/macro intensive ZvZ's going back and forth and not just a completely dull game untill Naniwa went with his all in.
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On November 19 2011 20:30 DBrave wrote:
Guys I have a question. I didn't watch last night and I need recommendations.
Ofc I'm gonna watch Idra vs Nestea and Nani vs MVP.
But what about the rest of day1, is there any games worth watching or should i just skip and w8 for day2 to start ?
I see casted games in OP but they don't sound interesting at all..
THX in advance
Go find and watch Puzzle vs random mid-masters player Nikoras. It was about the only excitement of the night involving a player you've never heard of.
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On November 19 2011 21:38 Plethora wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 20:30 DBrave wrote:
Guys I have a question. I didn't watch last night and I need recommendations.
Ofc I'm gonna watch Idra vs Nestea and Nani vs MVP.
But what about the rest of day1, is there any games worth watching or should i just skip and w8 for day2 to start ?
I see casted games in OP but they don't sound interesting at all..
THX in advance Go find and watch Puzzle vs random mid-masters player Nikoras. It was about the only excitement of the night involving a player you've never heard of.
If you like PvP, HerO vs. Puzzle was pretty darned sick as well
Very inspirering games if you play Protoss
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On November 19 2011 21:37 TheBamf wrote:
I do not see how I my view is flawed. A no block expansion into void ray all in is a HUGE risk, the DT rush first game and the 16 nexus last game. He cut huge corners to try to get an advantage on the off chance that it worked. And It did, it was some really good 2 base all-ins but it was still dull to watch because the whole game balanced on such shaky grounds while idra and nesteas matches were proper micro/macro intensive ZvZ's going back and forth and not just a completely dull game untill Naniwa went with his all in.
I don't entirely disagree with you, but there are loads of great and memorable moments from both SC2 and BW history involving the exact same sort of thing and/or even more cheesy builds. Hell, one of the top highlights for a lot of the old boxer vids is when he SCV + Marine rushed in game 5 of the (OSL?) finals. It's not always about having a straight up better game, its about doing what your opponent doesn't think you're going to do... what's wrong with that?
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On November 19 2011 21:47 Plethora wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 21:37 TheBamf wrote:
I do not see how I my view is flawed. A no block expansion into void ray all in is a HUGE risk, the DT rush first game and the 16 nexus last game. He cut huge corners to try to get an advantage on the off chance that it worked. And It did, it was some really good 2 base all-ins but it was still dull to watch because the whole game balanced on such shaky grounds while idra and nesteas matches were proper micro/macro intensive ZvZ's going back and forth and not just a completely dull game untill Naniwa went with his all in. I don't entirely disagree with you, but there are loads of great and memorable moments from both SC2 and BW history involving the exact same sort of thing and/or even more cheesy builds. Hell, one of the top highlights for a lot of the old boxer vids is when he SCV + Marine rushed in game 5 of the (OSL?) finals. It's not always about having a straight up better game, its about doing what your opponent doesn't think you're going to do... what's wrong with that?
Nothing, he just finds it dull and thinks that everyone else should, while me, you and possibly more people find technical games like this fun to watch.
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I see Naniwa vs MVP and then Nestea similar to go.go's infamous BW games vs Bisu:
Naniwa knew that MVP would be passive and so played very greedily (see his fanclub for the interview), going for a 1gate FE into Robo with no extra gates for a while. There was a period where MVP could have straight up killed him with his first bunch of Marines, especially after the missed FF by Naniwa.
He also knew that Nestea would want to play a macro game, so either played very greedily (16 nexus) or went for a gamble attack (DT rush/VR + 6gate all-in), hoping Nestea wouldn't respond appropriately.
As much as I like Nani's play, I would put his victory down to his opponent's mistakes rather than his own really good play - not that his play is bad, just not excellent. He caught MVP in TvP, his worst matchup by a mile, and Nestea in a slumping period, and metagamed both of them.
I guess we'll find out how well he does in the actual MLG tournament, when he cannot prepare individual strategies as easily.
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I think most of you guys are understimating Naniwa. He clearly worked hard and had clear and solid strategies. Yesterday he was better than MVP and Nestea. Not many people can say this. Koreans are good but clearly not invencible. Deal with with.
Congratulations NaNi.
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It is hilarious to read team liquid some times. If Stephano, Idra or Huk had won against MVP og Nestea back to back inn bo3 people would be screaming they are the best players inn the world! or close to it! But when Naniwa wins people are saying he just cheesed and he was lucky. (I am not saying everybody is like this but far more people then it would be if it where Idra huk or Stephano)
Naniwa has been one of the most consistent sc2 foreigners since the release. won major tournaments and placed high inn almost every tournament he has played. Give the man some props. He is one if not the hardest working foreigner right now!
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On November 19 2011 21:37 TheBamf wrote:
I do not see how I my view is flawed. A no block expansion into void ray all in is a HUGE risk, the DT rush first game and the 16 nexus last game. He cut huge corners to try to get an advantage on the off chance that it worked. And It did, it was some really good 2 base all-ins but it was still dull to watch because the whole game balanced on such shaky grounds while idra and nesteas matches were proper micro/macro intensive ZvZ's going back and forth and not just a completely dull game untill Naniwa went with his all in.
Besides totally belittling a players performance to practically nothing, this idra mindset presents such a simplified view of the game that I sometimes wonder why people like you even bother watching it. I mean, if any player can set up for a 50/50 shot at winning a game vs the best player in the world by forcing a "coin flip" situation, then where is the excitement in watching sc2 on your behalf? Luckily I think there are far too many variables in this game for anyone including idra to make that call, and execution and control are always factors that play in as well.
As for the no block expansion, didn't he pay the price and had to cancel? Are you sure the decision was completely arbitrary, or is there a possibility that naniwa predicted it to be relatively safe depending on the map and the opponent? All in is also a completely misleading term in the large majority of its usage around here because it implies it's a one shot deal to kill your opponent, whereas in reality it's more often than not meant to cause a certain amount of damage to the extent where the "all iner" is at a favorable position (similar to the intention of every other strategy employed in this game.)
16 nex on tal'darim is deemed unsafe and somewhat of an economic cheese because it loses against 6 pool, but forge expand is fine even though it presents the risk of getting you into an economic disadvantage vs a greedy zerg? Why is the latter necessarily always a better risk than the first? I'm sorry you can't enjoy a game if one of the players decide to take a certain type of risk. All series looked pretty macro/micro intensive to me though, if excellent macro can even be considered much of a feat in this game which I personally don't think, I find correct decision making to be much more intriguing.
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EPT
