Hello everyone! If you didn't know, we recently concluded our IGN Pro League Map Making Contest (seen here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=280402) and we are ready to show off the winning maps! Not only that, but we are holding a $1,000 open tournament (on North America server) so that people have a chance to play on them competitively and offer their feedback based on the games that they played!
Here's the information:
Signups: Players can sign up for the tournament any time before it begins, right here on Playhem: http://playhem.com/tourney/12526
When: Saturday, November 12th at 10 a.m. PST / 1 p.m. EST / 7 p.m. CEST (That's just under 48 hours to sign up, so get on it as quick as you can!)
Format: Best of 3 every round with a set start map, loser chooses next maps. Only the selected, winning maps may be chosen in this tournament (that's kind of the reason we're doing it!) so look closely at the images and map names here when choosing!
All maps are published to the North American server by VTMirhi as: IPLMap Alysaar Deluge IPLMap Atlantis Spaceship IPLMap Darkness Falls IPLMap ESV Sanshorn Mist IPLMap Zhakul'Das Rift
Congratulations to the winning map makers! After this tournament concludes and feedback is gathered from our players, we'll be making final decisions on which TWO of these five maps will be included in future renditions of IPL Fight Club, IPL Team Arena, and even IPL 4! Please sign up as soon as possible and join us on Saturday to help shape the future of our IGN Pro League events! =D
These games will not be cast live, but replays will be saved for us to cast throughout the coming weeks on http://www.ign.com/ipl =)
On November 11 2011 07:19 Diamond wrote: Woot! GOGO Sanshorn!!!!
Edit: To avoid confusion you might want to tag Sanshorn as "Sanshorn Mist AE" as there is an original Sanshorn then the AE.
We decided to just tag it without the addition, as IPL is basically branding this version as the 'real' version for us.
I don't understand why mapmakers cannot name their own maps anymore. The name is Sanshorn Mist AE.
We can change it later if it's a big deal, we didn't think it was any different than just labeling a version number and most haven't played the original for them to know the difference, so it would be starting with a clean slate.
And actually sir it's called ESV Sanshorn Mist AE <3 Diamond
On November 11 2011 07:19 Diamond wrote: Woot! GOGO Sanshorn!!!!
Edit: To avoid confusion you might want to tag Sanshorn as "Sanshorn Mist AE" as there is an original Sanshorn then the AE.
We decided to just tag it without the addition, as IPL is basically branding this version as the 'real' version for us.
I don't understand why mapmakers cannot name their own maps anymore. The name is Sanshorn Mist AE.
We can change it later if it's a big deal, we didn't think it was any different than just labeling a version number and most haven't played the original for them to know the difference, so it would be starting with a clean slate.
And actually sir it's called ESV Sanshorn Mist AE <3 Diamond
I do hear what you are saying but it just seems like the only people that should be naming the maps are the mapmakers......
Edit: Also <3 back, just sick of mapmakers not getting any say on anything of their own work.
On November 11 2011 07:33 Mirhi wrote: Is Sanshorn Mist AE the sequal to Titan AE?
No Titan AE is the sequel to Sanshorn Mist AE. Obviously !
On November 11 2011 07:19 Diamond wrote: Woot! GOGO Sanshorn!!!!
Edit: To avoid confusion you might want to tag Sanshorn as "Sanshorn Mist AE" as there is an original Sanshorn then the AE.
We decided to just tag it without the addition, as IPL is basically branding this version as the 'real' version for us.
I don't understand why mapmakers cannot name their own maps anymore. The name is Sanshorn Mist AE.
We can change it later if it's a big deal, we didn't think it was any different than just labeling a version number and most haven't played the original for them to know the difference, so it would be starting with a clean slate.
And actually sir it's called ESV Sanshorn Mist AE <3 Diamond
I do hear what you are saying but it just seems like the only people that should be naming the maps are the mapmakers......
Edit: Also <3 back, just sick of mapmakers not getting any say on anything of their own work.
On November 11 2011 07:19 Diamond wrote: Woot! GOGO Sanshorn!!!!
Edit: To avoid confusion you might want to tag Sanshorn as "Sanshorn Mist AE" as there is an original Sanshorn then the AE.
We decided to just tag it without the addition, as IPL is basically branding this version as the 'real' version for us.
I don't understand why mapmakers cannot name their own maps anymore. The name is Sanshorn Mist AE.
We can change it later if it's a big deal, we didn't think it was any different than just labeling a version number and most haven't played the original for them to know the difference, so it would be starting with a clean slate.
And actually sir it's called ESV Sanshorn Mist AE <3 Diamond
I do hear what you are saying but it just seems like the only people that should be naming the maps are the mapmakers......
Edit: Also <3 back, just sick of mapmakers not getting any say on anything of their own work.
On November 11 2011 07:33 Mirhi wrote: Is Sanshorn Mist AE the sequal to Titan AE?
No Titan AE is the sequel to Sanshorn Mist AE. Obviously !
We will rename it IPL ESV Sanshorn Mist Titan AE 1.0 (2)
Jesus you IPL guys. It's IPL ESV Sanshorn Mist AE Titan AE 1.2 (2) Blue red tango 4.3.
On November 11 2011 07:19 Diamond wrote: Woot! GOGO Sanshorn!!!!
Edit: To avoid confusion you might want to tag Sanshorn as "Sanshorn Mist AE" as there is an original Sanshorn then the AE.
We decided to just tag it without the addition, as IPL is basically branding this version as the 'real' version for us.
I don't understand why mapmakers cannot name their own maps anymore. The name is Sanshorn Mist AE.
We can change it later if it's a big deal, we didn't think it was any different than just labeling a version number and most haven't played the original for them to know the difference, so it would be starting with a clean slate.
And actually sir it's called ESV Sanshorn Mist AE <3 Diamond
I do hear what you are saying but it just seems like the only people that should be naming the maps are the mapmakers......
Edit: Also <3 back, just sick of mapmakers not getting any say on anything of their own work.
On November 11 2011 07:33 Mirhi wrote: Is Sanshorn Mist AE the sequal to Titan AE?
No Titan AE is the sequel to Sanshorn Mist AE. Obviously !
We will rename it IPL ESV Sanshorn Mist Titan AE 1.0 (2)
Jesus you IPL guys. It's IPL ESV Sanshorn Mist AE Titan AE 1.2 (2) Blue red tango 4.3.
Now that is just ridiculous sir! Let's try to stay reasonable.
I'M REALLY UNHAPPY WITH THESE CHOICES. I CAN'T BELIEVE MY MAPS DIDN'T GET PICKED. OBVIOUSLY IPL HAS NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND THE JUDGES ARE OFF THEIR MEDS. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH TIME I PUT INTO ALL THESE MAPS AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO INSULT ME LIKE THIS?!
jk. great job everyone! i really like zhakul'das rift aside from it's straight path nat-nat. Sandshorn Mist AE is in my opinion the best 2-spawn map in existence atm so it's well deserving. ESV IS INNNNNNN THEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEE
On November 11 2011 07:19 Diamond wrote: Woot! GOGO Sanshorn!!!!
Edit: To avoid confusion you might want to tag Sanshorn as "Sanshorn Mist AE" as there is an original Sanshorn then the AE.
We decided to just tag it without the addition, as IPL is basically branding this version as the 'real' version for us.
I don't understand why mapmakers cannot name their own maps anymore. The name is Sanshorn Mist AE.
We can change it later if it's a big deal, we didn't think it was any different than just labeling a version number and most haven't played the original for them to know the difference, so it would be starting with a clean slate.
And actually sir it's called ESV Sanshorn Mist AE <3 Diamond
I do hear what you are saying but it just seems like the only people that should be naming the maps are the mapmakers......
Edit: Also <3 back, just sick of mapmakers not getting any say on anything of their own work.
On November 11 2011 07:33 Mirhi wrote: Is Sanshorn Mist AE the sequal to Titan AE?
No Titan AE is the sequel to Sanshorn Mist AE. Obviously !
We will rename it IPL ESV Sanshorn Mist Titan AE 1.0 (2)
Lol yes please. I want to have to know how to use the dewey decimal system to figure out what map I'm playing on!
On November 11 2011 07:45 prodiG wrote: I'M REALLY UNHAPPY WITH THESE CHOICES. I CAN'T BELIEVE MY MAPS DIDN'T GET PICKED. OBVIOUSLY IPL HAS NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND THE JUDGES ARE OFF THEIR MEDS. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH TIME I PUT INTO ALL THESE MAPS AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO INSULT ME LIKE THIS?!
jk. great job everyone! i really like zhakul'das rift aside from it's straight path nat-nat. Sandshorn Mist AE is in my opinion the best 2-spawn map in existence atm so it's well deserving. ESV IS INNNNNNN THEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEE
We really liked 2 of your maps, but they just barely didn't make it in the 5. We got down to about 13 maps and had a really hard time narrowing it down after that.
On November 11 2011 07:45 prodiG wrote: I'M REALLY UNHAPPY WITH THESE CHOICES. I CAN'T BELIEVE MY MAPS DIDN'T GET PICKED. OBVIOUSLY IPL HAS NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND THE JUDGES ARE OFF THEIR MEDS. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH TIME I PUT INTO ALL THESE MAPS AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO INSULT ME LIKE THIS?!
jk. great job everyone! i really like zhakul'das rift aside from it's straight path nat-nat. Sandshorn Mist AE is in my opinion the best 2-spawn map in existence atm so it's well deserving. ESV IS INNNNNNN THEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEE
Ahaha, nice play on the TPW guy. A great attitude you have ^^
On November 11 2011 07:45 prodiG wrote: I'M REALLY UNHAPPY WITH THESE CHOICES. I CAN'T BELIEVE MY MAPS DIDN'T GET PICKED. OBVIOUSLY IPL HAS NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND THE JUDGES ARE OFF THEIR MEDS. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH TIME I PUT INTO ALL THESE MAPS AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO INSULT ME LIKE THIS?!
jk. great job everyone! i really like zhakul'das rift aside from it's straight path nat-nat. Sandshorn Mist AE is in my opinion the best 2-spawn map in existence atm so it's well deserving. ESV IS INNNNNNN THEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEE
We really liked 2 of your maps, but they just barely didn't make it in the 5. We got down to about 13 maps and had a really hard time narrowing it down after that.
I hear that. That's often how it went during my time with Map of the Month. Glad to hear I came close!
On November 11 2011 07:58 chuky500 wrote: What did you think of my map Back to Back ? + Show Spoiler +
From the map contest thread it sounded like you wanted creativity and innovation.
Overall we did like this map (7/10), but there were a few things we didn't, such as the path around the back of the natural / main. It seemed like heaven for tank / marine drops (similar to how Shakuras works now in the back of mains except even more abusable because it covers 2 bases).
amg amg Zhakul'das Rift is beautiful! It's like someone made a horrible Bel'shir map and then my favourite texture set tears a hole in it and makes it awesome. ♥
I also love Sanshorn Mists and Alyssar Deluge, and Darkness Falls has some cool aspects in those high ground passages.
Atlantis Spaceship is a big wild card, though - I was put off a bit first because it was hard to see what's going on. On closer inspection I can see there's a lot of really different elements that could go well or badly.
EDIT: Also, I would be interested in feedback on VIP Parking and Gaia's Cradle, though I already now have a better understanding of how their high ground thirds are too defensive.
On November 11 2011 07:51 IronManSC wrote: I'd like personal feedback on Ohana please.
I do not remember Ohana in particular, but I do know that we really like 3 different TPW maps that just barely didn't make it into the top 5.
Edit: We didn't actually look at it because it came in after the deadline (just checked), but in general we didn't like maps that had 2 paths into the natural that were easily accessible. For the current state of the meta game and many complicated reasons we wanted the maps to have secure natural bases overall, but we rewarded innovation in many facets.
On November 11 2011 08:08 LunaSaint wrote: amg amg Zhakul'das Rift is beautiful! It's like someone made a horrible Bel'shir map and then my favourite texture set tears a hole in it and makes it awesome. ♥
I also love Sanshorn Mists and Alyssar Deluge, and Darkness Falls has some cool aspects in those high ground passages.
Atlantis Spaceship is a big wild card, though - I was put off a bit first because it was hard to see what's going on. On closer inspection I can see there's a lot of really different elements that could go well or badly.
EDIT: Also, I would be interested in feedback on VIP Parking and Gaia's Cradle, though I already now have a better understanding of how their high ground thirds are too defensive.
We loved both VIP Parking and Gaia's Gradle, both quality maps about 7/10.
Edit: An issue with VIP Parking was that it gave a bit too much of a defender's advantage in some places and it seemed that it would be cut in half almost all the time.
Thanks for the feedback on Back to Back. I just want to say because it's so obvious you can drop there, players will place defense. The fact that it covers both bases makes it easier to defend since you can defend from both sides. Static defense works for both bases so overall it makes the defense easier than if bases where far appart.
Since I'm basically going on and on about individual maps I'll just post something more general:
There were many combination of criteria but overall we chose maps that included:
Non-abusable main and natural bases Few Xel'naga towers Well / creatively placed or no destructible rocks Creative terrain Well designed aesthetics Both open spaces and choke points
It goes without saying that we tried to eliminate maps that favored one race or another. One particular perhaps unusual criteria we included was "Can a Protoss Forge Fast Expand on this map?" It didn't always disqualify a map if the answer was no, but we feel that this is an important part of the current meta game and we wanted maps that could support it.
We also wanted maps that didn't have adverse affects on ZvZ and PvP as these matchups are already extremely volatile.
On November 11 2011 08:22 Mirhi wrote: There were many combination of criteria but overall we chose maps that included:
Non-abusable main and natural bases Few Xel'naga towers Well / creatively placed or no destructible rocks Creative terrain Well designed aesthetics Both open spaces and choke points
I think this is the best description of Cloud Kingdom, i am honestly surprised that you guys picked Sanshorn Mist over that map. I'd like to know the reasons you didn't pick it.
On November 11 2011 08:22 Mirhi wrote: There were many combination of criteria but overall we chose maps that included:
Non-abusable main and natural bases Few Xel'naga towers Well / creatively placed or no destructible rocks Creative terrain Well designed aesthetics Both open spaces and choke points
I think this is the best description of Cloud Kingdom, i am honestly surprised that you guys picked Sanshorn Mist over that map. I'd like to know the reasons you didn't pick it.
It was one of the ones at the cutoff as well. If I remember our discussion correctly, the defenders advantage was perceived as being a bit too high. We also felt we had a few maps of the same style that were slightly better designed that we liked slightly more and didn't want to pick identical maps.
Artemis is one of the maps that had a natural that was a bit too wide and open to easily hold FEs on.
Althea was one of my favorite maps and was one of the last ones eliminated. I honestly can't come up with great critiques for you. Just only 5 can get chosen.
Also congrats to all the winners! I love to see LSPrime's map in this, having rich gas bases instead of golds is the future imo and I really want to see this map being played. Also Sanshorn should be a solid choice
Great maps by great names! The tournament will be breathtaking, no joke. IPL, NASL and TL Open will open the doors into a new era of custom maps for tournaments to come.
Will look out for the VODs and I hope you get someone/s epic to cast them.
I'd appreciate some feedback on the maps I submitted.
there are only 2 maps that dont support siege tank abuse on mains and/or naturals. IMHO sanshorn mist is the only good map in this line up. The gold on deluge is far to easy for a zerg or terran player.
Also congrats to all the winners! I love to see LSPrime's map in this, having rich gas bases instead of golds is the future imo and I really want to see this map being played. Also Sanshorn should be a solid choice
Manala we didn't like the fact the air positions are much closer than ground positions. Makes early air too abusable.
Twilight Peaks we liked the overall design quite a bit, but the fact that all the multiple attack paths (which we LOVED) were all viewable by Xel'naga towers somewhat made them not as interesting or useful.
Great maps by great names! The tournament will be breathtaking, no joke. IPL, NASL and TL Open will open the doors into a new era of custom maps for tournaments to come.
Will look out for the VODs and I hope you get someone/s epic to cast them.
I'd appreciate some feedback on the maps I submitted.
I don't have much specific criticism as I liked the first two maps, particularly Yuma. On Memorial though I did not like how open the natural was. I wish we could have picked 10 or 15 maps to reward the many good maps there were (At least 15 that were usable in tournaments), but we only could use 5.
It's easy to become jaded these days, but I want to say it is just great that IPL put a grand on the table to competitively test their new maps. I love it!
As a note, we are changing the starting time by ONE HOUR ahead of where it is now, in order to not so directly conflict with the charity tournament starting 2 hours later.
On November 11 2011 09:50 Ghad wrote: It's easy to become jaded these days, but I want to say it is just great that IPL put a grand on the table to competitively test their new maps. I love it!
Hopefully that's enough to convince players to check out the map and not just rely on cheesy or over agressive play. :>
Wow, great maps here, the 5 winners and some of the others posted in this thread as well!
I particularly like Zhakul'Das Rift, the center area feels like a DMZ. A problem I see with it, though, is that the 'highway' between the naturals will see a lot of death pushes. It might be too easy to defend the flanks while moving down it.
Atlantis Spaceship could prove good, even though I hate the tileset - I find it hard to decipher.
Back2back is neat, but that would be a tough 3rd. I think Ohana looks great.
I really like Manala as well. I'd like to see more maps with air positions closer than ground positions, a la Scrap Station. I loved playing that map because it forced such a different game.
On November 11 2011 11:03 NoGardE wrote: IPL ESV Sanshorn Mist AE Titan AE 1.2 (2) Blue red tango 4.3 Special Space Shark Edition is good, but it needs a tagline.
IPL ESV Sanshorn Mist AE Titan AE 1.2 (2) Blue red tango 4.3 Special Space Shark Edition: Let there be banelings.
On November 11 2011 08:06 IronManSC wrote: What did you think of Ohana? + Show Spoiler +
This is actually a really beautiful map -- it reminds me warmly of Warcraft 3. I think the color palette is really easy on the eyes. Or maybe I just like the beach?
If you're still willing to post up problems with submitted maps, could you list some detractors for Red River Delta? I want to keep making any improvements to it I can.
On November 11 2011 11:13 Manae wrote: If you're still willing to post up problems with submitted maps, could you list some detractors for Red River Delta? I want to keep making any improvements to it I can.
Based on their earlier comments, I bet the close air compared to the ground paths was a detriment, and it lends itself to being split in half. Seems like it would be tough to ground attack across the middle.
A lot of neat stuff in it though! Non-standard orientation, and the SW gold (although I think it would be unused). The 3rd is interesting. I like the plateau's that partially overlook the bridge as well. I do think the destructible rocks on the islands are a bit of overkill though!
On November 11 2011 11:13 Manae wrote: If you're still willing to post up problems with submitted maps, could you list some detractors for Red River Delta? I want to keep making any improvements to it I can.
That's a cool map concept. The main thing that sends up red flag's is the island expo. I can tell that it has low amount of area to prevent cheeky turtle bs. But I've always been of the opinion that islands favor Terran too much due to the lack of a need to actually tech to anything to take the expo. In this case it seems like a free 3rd should the rocks get removed.
- High ground pillars. Seems like those could be abused as well. -Those and that bridge choke with the watchtowers.
Both of those elements seem like they could cause a bit too much of a stand off. If one side tried to maneuver through the west side some well positioned troops near that other watch tower would make one side exceedingly hard to break. In other words in the current state that map looks exceedingly turtle friendly.
All in all it's a cool looking map and nice concepts but imo that island's and the way it's split is a major burr in my prostate.
On November 11 2011 10:43 Alex.IGN wrote: As a note, we are changing the starting time by ONE HOUR ahead of where it is now, in order to not so directly conflict with the charity tournament starting 2 hours later.
This change is now reflected in the original post to state 10 a.m. PST / 1 p.m. EST / 7 p.m. CEST.
Awesome, can't wait to see how the community treats map making vs some of the less favored blizzard maps for tournament play. Hopefully we'll see one of these put to good use in sick, baller, nerd chilling games in IPL4!
After a long day at work & a terrible drive home (Finally got the first snow of the season and let me tell you what, my drive home took an extra 20 minutes and I saw about 8 cars that were off the road due to sliding) yet I check out TL and what do you know, my map Darkness Falls is in the top 5.
All the finalist maps are interesting and seem to be well put together. The pool also seems to be somewhat diverse, despite it being four 2 spawn maps and one 4 spawn map. None of them look bad, so that is a plus
Some of the mapmakers have made decisions which I would probably not make, but that is as it should be
Also, I'd like some feedback on my two maps: Monsoon Valley and Concrete Dreams.
It's great to see IGN putting some real legs behind community maps. When is the last time a cash prize has been given to a tournament completely based off custom made maps?
regarding the lineup of maps: some looks really fun and will certainly provide good games, but others have some really strange spots I would consider flawed.
Darkness Falls has two problems and it should not be in (imo): Flat choke between Main and Natural without a highround to defend the main / too many bases in very close distance that make it too easy to hold four bases, especially in cross position.
Zhakul'Das Rift has the same problem with many bases be controlled without any map control and few army movement.
I am sure there were better entries than these two ( no offense to the authors, you are in, congratulations!)
in general I am disappointed to see too many grey-blue-green maps. I think the matches will be great fun, but the mappool does not provide a lot of visual variety, which is a pity.
I really would love to get some pm or feedback in this thread to submitted my maps Cascade (MotM8 Finalist), Burning Altar (TL MC Finalist) and Stillwater Reach (possibly my best map overall). thx! + Show Spoiler [Burning Altar] +
I realize some may not like Xel Naga for obvious reasons but what do you guys think aboot Grave-Digger? Made them both the night of my internet dropping and It didn't get up in time to submit
congrats to the winners! can't wait to see who gets top 2
I am getting a lot of questions about maps, both in PMs and on this forum and it is becoming a bit overwhelming trying to re-hashe the criticism that we spent about 8 hours doing ourselves in total for the maps, however let me say something:
In many circumstances, the map may be fine for a certain style of play, but for what we were looking for, if the natural was not very easy to hold, we generally discounted it. The reason is that we wanted maps that rewarded macro players and macro play and discouraged 1 base play by how easy the naturals are to hold.
Third bases should be along those lines, proportionately easy to take, but not extremely easy to hold (if you understand the difference).
Almost all close air maps were discounted because IPL does not like 1 base air play as a general rule, and some of the maps too closely resembled Scrap Station for our liking (in a negative way).
Xel'naga towers killed a lot of maps. If Xel'naga Towers revealed all your attack paths, it was almost immediately discounted. Exceptions were maps the size of Tal'Darim that were huge enough that the Xel'naga towers didn't necessarily determine attack points and points of contention.
Another almost instant rejection were maps that had 2 paths into the main base or natural or had very easily abusable drop locations for Terran. There were some maps we considered that had 2 paths into the natural with well placed destructible rocks that then made the natural easy to hold, but in the end none made the final cut (though a few were in the top 12).
Many maps we didn't choose simply had stylistic differences. Some people like Xel'naga towers and gold bases - generally we do not. There was 1 map that had 3 vespene geysers on a base that we REALLY wanted to choose, but we cut it out in the top 8.
I hope this clears up a few things about our selections.
Zah'kul Rift is the only map that I don't really like. That's just a personal thing, but I feel that maps the create a no-mans-land in the middle (particularly in XvT) do fuel macro games, but it also has the potential to make imbalances for ZvT, just because of how the terran can set up some tank lines, then just do some sort of crazy triple expand into a 15 rax marine push w/ tanks.
Not that things like that make the game uninteresting, it's just that I personally don't like to see games where a specific race has the potential to do things like that.
I don't think everyone shares my idea, but it's just a personal thing.
I've noticed the map file I sent for Darkness Falls, one of the naturals (bottom right) only has 7 mineral patches instead of the 8 that all others have. I must have forgotten to put an extra mineral field there when I was making it "blizzard-like". I've sent the new map file so hopefully that gets fixed before games are played on it because I'd hate for players in the bottom right to have 1 less mineral patch! :x
Alysaar Deluge is a lot like how my maps are but it's better. It seems pretty solid.
I was interested to see how Atlantis Spaceship plays, that map intrigued me when I first saw it.
Darkness Falls is interesting. It's kind of like a typical rotational map, but with an additional expo. You get three bases before picking a direction you must expand in. It has the easy nat but lack of ramp at the main. Hopefully not a 4gate fest with no ramp, but I'd at least want to see it in the other matchups. I'm really excited to see this map.
Sanshorn Mist I've seen in the Korean Weekly and it seems fine, I never noticed anything interesting about it come into play. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but it's the only one I've actually watched games on and they were pretty boring games. I think it's a good map, though.
Zhakul'Das Rift has a really cool color scheme. It looks pretty refreshing. Pretty standard layout, but I do notice that you can take nice bases away from your opponent due to the width of the map. Pretty easy to take expos so it can have heavy macro games, but also a short enough rush distance that aggression is possible. I think it should play very well.
-
Out of curiosity, is there any way of knowing how well we did and anything that needed to be improved? I'd love to become a better mapper.
Thank you so much to everyone who played this weekend! We will begin casting games from this tournament very soon, but we are looking for player feedback right now in this thread! How did you like the maps? Do you feel that some specific feature of one of the maps caused you to win or lose unfairly? We are looking to narrow down these 5 maps to only 2 that will be used in future IGN Pro League Team Arena, Fight Club, and tournament map pools so this feedback is very important to us! Anything as basic as "I liked x, y, and z, and didn't like a, b, and c" will be helpful for us!
We will be casting games from this tournament beginning today starting with RGN.Future vs. SP.Belky, RGN.Artists vs. coLMVPTAiLS, and dignitas.Killer vs. x6.Ver! 5 p.m. Pacific start time, as always, so tune in to http://www.ign.com/ipl later today and PLEASE give feedback about how you like or dislike watching our brand new maps!
i really like Atlantis Spaceship and Darkness Falls but i think Darkness Falls could use a lot more detail as it dosent look as pretty, i would really like to see some more desert, forest or oasis like maps.
Our stream is now live! Come check out our new maps as some great players take them for a test drive! We're looking for both player and spectator feedback, so let us know what you think about the new battlefields! http://www.ign.com/ipl
I am being honest right now, ESV sanshorn has islands i thought it was really bad to have island expos because its unfair to none terran because transports are not in there normal army comps.
I played in 2 rounds and really enjoyed the maps. Although I did not play TvP on Darkness Falls, I think it is too easy for Protoss to defend 3 bases. The texturing in the mains of Alysaar Deluge is too distracting; even on lowest graphics settings. Please use these macro maps; they are much more for to play and spectate.
The tileset in the main on Alyssar is way too bright or something and the rest of the map is too dark; it was very hard to see things properly in my game on it. Didn't get enough playtime on it to understand the map otherwise.
Atlantis Spaceship is a very solid map all around with encouraging gameplay. The western watchtower seems a little out of place though. Seems to give good options for all races in general. Definitely my favorite.
Darkness Falls is reasonably interesting and dynamic in tvz. It's a nightmare TvP because there's very limited harass potential and it's far too easy to get a 3rd. While I thankfully didn't have to play TvT on it, I imagine it would be extremely boring, turtle-friendly, and completely mech-oriented. It's simply too easy to secure 3rd/4th/5th expansions here. The high ground natural is a very nice step for helping to reduce the strength of the far too numerous and powerful luck based coinflip builds.
Sanshorn Mists is a great all-around map as well. Easily my #2. The bases are reasonably defensible against coinflips but still open to harass of all sorts. 3rd/4th are available but not free. The middle layout is interesting and in my games here featured fun maneuvers. The islands are hard to call either way, but it's refreshing to play a map that has some.
I didn't get to play on Zhakul but something immediately apparent is that the ramp is too far forward. This creates issues in TvP against void ray allins (vs rax expo builds) and 5/6 gate which I can't see any reason to promote. You can't let the P ever forcefield your ramp which means you have to place your bunkers exceptionally far out in front where they are easily exposed and too far away from your natural scvs to repair in time.
Overall these were some very nice maps and I hope to see Atlantis/Sanshorn and perhaps slightly modified forms of the others in future tournaments. Some of the base layouts go a long way to reducing the rampant luck factor in the game while still avoiding turtling. It's also really awesome to see reduced watchtower presence: this not only makes it possible to scout allins (which is never possible on most maps because they will see your scout with the multitude of WTs), but it creates more interesting and complex maneuvering scenarios instead of the usual fights where one side or the other has too much free vision.
On November 16 2011 16:21 EtherealDeath wrote: So the FB wall on my College's ESports/SC page has been buzzing that Saladin, who was 4th in this tourney, is Day9. Huh?
So of course I come here and see nothing about it in the thread, so would be nice if someone has a better idea of what is going on.
Just a joke that CatsPajamas made since we are not familiar with Saladin. =P
He said something along the lines of "Until someone can tell us more about this guy, I'll have to assume that he's actually Day9." =)
On November 16 2011 16:21 EtherealDeath wrote: So the FB wall on my College's ESports/SC page has been buzzing that Saladin, who was 4th in this tourney, is Day9. Huh?
So of course I come here and see nothing about it in the thread, so would be nice if someone has a better idea of what is going on.
Just a joke that CatsPajamas made since we are not familiar with Saladin. =P
He said something along the lines of "Until someone can tell us more about this guy, I'll have to assume that he's actually Day9." =)
is there some reason the casters are explaining fundamental stuff now like 'brood lords are the highest level of tech for zerg' now? i mean i guess it's ok that they're reaching out to viewers that are new to the game. just curious, cos they didnt do anything of the sort up until now.
On November 16 2011 17:15 darkscream wrote: Well that's fucking cool. Good on you guys for being the only tournament with the balls to have new maps happen, besides the GSL.
ESV TV Korean Weeklies have some fun maps as well.
Now that it just ended, can someone tell me the song that's playing right now? Like, literally it just ended, showing 'ads in progress', and some sick chillin music is playing. If someone could tell me what it's called I would really appreciated.
I personally really like Darkness Falls because in all the late game matches there was a lot of unique army maneuvers. The main and natural are defensible. My second choice would be Sanshorn Mist because of the epic shark, the helipad, and the islands all of which provide me entertainment.
Ive really enjoyed watching the new maps in action, some of the games were quite entertaining too. Big thanks to IGN for putting this on and giving the map makers somewhere to shine.
Will there be any word soon on which of these maps made it into the IPL pool (or did I miss that)? I'm interested to know which ones were chosen and what kind of feedback and gameplay went into those decisions.
On November 22 2011 07:30 godulous wrote: Will there be any word soon on which of these maps made it into the IPL pool (or did I miss that)? I'm interested to know which ones were chosen and what kind of feedback and gameplay went into those decisions.
After the broadcasts are over for the event (Wednesday) we will reveal it. We are still looking for constructive feedback on all of the maps!
On November 22 2011 14:04 a176 wrote: how about you dump blizzard maps completely?
I want to put Incineration Zone back in! My employees won't let me
That would be hilarious! Take the top 10 most unbalanced maps ever in Blizzard history and a $1000 prize pool and you'll get the best worst tournament ever :D
On November 22 2011 14:04 a176 wrote: how about you dump blizzard maps completely?
I want to put Incineration Zone back in! My employees won't let me
That would be hilarious! Take the top 10 most unbalanced maps ever in Blizzard history and a $1000 prize pool and you'll get the best worst tournament ever :D
This... this... this idea could actually be fun.
Jungle basin, incineration zone, blistering sands, desert oasis and more!
On November 22 2011 14:04 a176 wrote: how about you dump blizzard maps completely?
I want to put Incineration Zone back in! My employees won't let me
That would be hilarious! Take the top 10 most unbalanced maps ever in Blizzard history and a $1000 prize pool and you'll get the best worst tournament ever :D
This... this... this idea could actually be fun.
Jungle basin, incineration zone, blistering sands, desert oasis and more!
On November 22 2011 14:04 a176 wrote: how about you dump blizzard maps completely?
I want to put Incineration Zone back in! My employees won't let me
That would be hilarious! Take the top 10 most unbalanced maps ever in Blizzard history and a $1000 prize pool and you'll get the best worst tournament ever :D
This... this... this idea could actually be fun.
Jungle basin, incineration zone, blistering sands, desert oasis and more!
you forgot the best map ever made KULAS RAVINE!!!!!!!! :D
Today's cast from the Round of 8 is starting in just 10 minutes! http://www.ign.com/ipl Come join us and give us your feedback on these new maps, they'll be around a lot more. =D
zhakul'das rift looks really really nice. want more of it. not sure about atlantis spaceship. sanshorn mist is already well established (korean weeklies) haven't seen the other maps so far.
Another taldarim forced 4gate on an otherwise brilliant multi base map?
I loved that map looking at it, but the realization that it has no ramp is soul crushingly bad for no real reason. Double choke, cant forcefield, and even if you could the lack of lack of vision would let you break any robo play with warping past forcefields.
On November 24 2011 11:41 Cyro wrote: This map is great, but what the fuck mapmakers?
Another taldarim forced 4gate on an otherwise brilliant multi base map?
I loved that map looking at it, but the realization that it has no ramp is soul crushingly bad for no real reason. Double choke, cant forcefield, and even if you could the lack of lack of vision would let you break any robo play with warping past forcefields.
Good thing about non-Blizzard maps is that they can change it. There needs to be a ramp...it breaks PvP not to have one. If maps are discredited for being broken in non-mirror matchups (eg 75% TvZ), they should be discredited for major flaws in mirrors as well imo.
On November 24 2011 11:41 Cyro wrote: This map is great, but what the fuck mapmakers?
Another taldarim forced 4gate on an otherwise brilliant multi base map?
I loved that map looking at it, but the realization that it has no ramp is soul crushingly bad for no real reason. Double choke, cant forcefield, and even if you could the lack of lack of vision would let you break any robo play with warping past forcefields.
But it is a shame that every map must have a ramp for just one match-up when all the other ones work fine. Maybe they should look for a creative solution to the problem.
(Random crazy idea, destructible xelnaga tower nearby that blocks opponents warp ins around your base and blows up after a set time. Only spawns in pvp matchups)
On November 24 2011 11:41 Cyro wrote: This map is great, but what the fuck mapmakers?
Another taldarim forced 4gate on an otherwise brilliant multi base map?
I loved that map looking at it, but the realization that it has no ramp is soul crushingly bad for no real reason. Double choke, cant forcefield, and even if you could the lack of lack of vision would let you break any robo play with warping past forcefields.
But it is a shame that every map must have a ramp for just one match-up when all the other ones work fine. Maybe they should look for a creative solution to the problem.
(Random crazy idea, destructible xelnaga tower nearby that blocks opponents warp ins around your base and blows up after a set time. Only spawns in pvp matchups)
Its a shame, but blizzard have shown over the course of the last year and a half that they have no idea how to rebalance 4gate. They increased research time, made units take less time to build from regular gateways, reversed the change for everything but sentries, lowered research time again, made immortals have 20% more range, changed ramp vision and probably other shit im forgetting, they wrote a post like they came up with this magical 4gate fix back before the 140-180sec nerf, and then had to undo it all on PTR because toss was 15nexusing every matchup and still holding everything thrown at them.
Without the ramp pvp is doomed, with it, it is often painful to watch and play because of coin flippyness between openings... People are innovating now (SaSe) but it is a very difficult matchup to work with, and without the ramp there is no hope.
To quote HuK, "You cant do anything on this fucking map" in a taldarim 4gate situation where he killed his opponent when he threw down a twilight council at like 8-9 minutes and got slightly disadvantaged in stalker count
It's really a shame how bad no ramp breaks PvP. I know I would LOVE to see more rampless main to natural chokes. Makes PvT MUCH more interesting early game imo as stalkers can harass walls quite well.
But at this point, it just screws PvP too bad T_T.
Does anyone know if any of the maps that did NOT make it into the map maker tournament but got some consideration ever got published for the public to play on? I would love to play on some new maps that nobody is familiar with.
After careful consideration of both community and player feedback, we have decided for sure to add Atlantis Spaceship to our IGN Pro League map pool for future events. Darkness Falls had drawbacks including the lack of a ramp between the main and natural expansion, causing the PvP matchup to become more trivial than we would like. We believe that with a couple of key changes to ESV Sanshorn Mist, it could be very viable and enjoyable in competitive formats.
As it stands, we find that ESV Sanshorn Mist is slightly too Zerg favored (based on feedback and statistics from our open tournament). We'd like for the third base to be slightly harder to take and hold, as well as reduce the open spaces across the entire map. Check back for more when we figure out revisions and final decisions.
Also just to clarify that Atlantis Spaceship and Darkness Falls are our two winners of this event, in terms of prizing. We really liked a lot of different maps but the only one we felt was actually fully ready to enter the map pool starting next year was Atlantis Spaceship. Congrats to the winners!
If having a no ramp main/nat is the biggest concern, I could easily make a 2nd version of Darkness Falls that has a high ground main with a ramp to the natural. Since the whole map is only 2 playable levels it'd be extremely easy to do that. Then you could have a non-ramp version that everything but PvP play on and then have a ramp version that would be used for PvP.
As implied before, I'm not really disappointed that my map (Alysaar Deluge) didn't win. As grateful as I am that it was, I actually almost wish that it wasn't a top 5 finalist, because this is not the map I want to be known for.
Aesthetic issue(s) aside, it has a very serious flaw... something I didn't fully understand when I submitted it. It has a moderate (slightly controlled) form of something I call CircleSyndrome. I have recently learned to thoroughly dislike pretty much any map with Circle Syndrome, largely because Circle Syndrome is the bane of a macro oriented map. I was a fool to say that Alysaar Deluge caters to all play styles, it is everything but a macro map.
However, if I hadn't made Alysaar Deluge, I probably still wouldn't really understand what Circle Syndrome is and why it is bad. If you are an advanced mapmaker, I highly recommend clicking on the two links above (maybe just the second one) and carefully reading what I have to say about Circle Syndrome. For the record, "Circle Syndrome" is very closely related to something monitor has been calling "linear pathing" for a long time (indeed maps that don't have linear pathing usually don't have Circle Syndrome, there can be no doubt that monitor gave me the ground work to base the Circle Syndrome theory off of); it is also very closely related to "winner's expansions". I have a feeling that koreans have understood it for a long time, and the language barrier prevents them from relaying the (imo complex) information (if they ever wanted to).
You will see better from me in the future! ^^
Very happy that you are going to keep doing this
Man I have been learning so much from the contest threads about mapmaking 0_O! Congrats on Top 2!
On December 07 2011 14:40 SidianTheBard wrote: If having a no ramp main/nat is the biggest concern, I could easily make a 2nd version of Darkness Falls that has a high ground main with a ramp to the natural. Since the whole map is only 2 playable levels it'd be extremely easy to do that. Then you could have a non-ramp version that everything but PvP play on and then have a ramp version that would be used for PvP.
Looking forward to IPL Map Contest #2!
I would be interested to see a revised version of Darkness Falls as it was my favorite map. Please email it to me (Frank in case you didn't know)
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YwMM8.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DAxFS.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DwXMf.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/42hQn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/L6QGD.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HJPMg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/NxACP.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/DbZux.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/I60Xn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YeWKR.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/RlQjt.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AiAgN.png)
Facebook, ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xBVkG.png)
Twitter, ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x6Xnq.png)
YouTube, and Justin.TV!
<3 Diamond
!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IpcAw.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HRoZH.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/f4kRH.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZcJzl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mZptX.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QdCcN.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YILHs.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KP02b.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DeN87.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1vJ5mm.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TKYDwHzlRHk/ToPVk0hagZI/AAAAAAAABNs/ak8oWClRZhM/s800/Terrain%252520030.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xqmlkChY0tI/Tq-TeBv32tI/AAAAAAAABRI/5iW_p84vm0c/s800/Shakuras%252520Necropolis%252520Angle.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I5PSl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XHXTv.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lQ7VJl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/OodieM/4XelNagaBastion.png)
![[image loading]](http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/OodieM/2Grave-Digger.png)
RGN.Future vs. 
SP.Belky, 
dignitas.Killer vs. 
