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[M] (2) Stillwater Reach 1.0 by Samro (EU, US)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/prAqg.jpg)
Information
spawns: 2
size: 140x140 (with some air around all edges)
bases: 12 regular bases + 2 six mineral one rich geyser
n2n: 122AU ( similar to XNC)
+ Show Spoiler [changelog] +
changes with v0.2:
Destructable rocks on Golds to help Toss in ZvP. Zerg could punish FE with taking quick gold.
changes with v0.3:
Six mineral one rich geyser instead of high yield bases with rocks.
changes with v1.0:
A few visuals changes like fewer light emission from decals, fog adjustments, green omni lights on rich geysers, texturing of underwater areas.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HpQUq.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler [concept] +While this map actually is based on the mapfile of an old map i made (and published - who can tell which one it is?), I actually see it as a bastard child of Shakuras Plateau and XNC. Unlike Shakuras the third close to the main it not closer to the opponent and very close to the middle and unlike XNC you do not have to take gold as third and there actually are lots of optional bases you can take.
Also I wanted to have a map that allows different playstyles, but also plays a bit race-specific. So the map has an open and long lowgrounds zerg wants to take control, two decisive highrounds that demand quite a bit of terran but then are really hold-able albeit they are in the middle of the map and I have many smaller chokes and ramps that Protoss can abuse.
For the expansion pattern this map tries to do the same my map Cascade did: you decide on your expansion pattern not only based on where you want to go, but also where you do not want your opponent to go. The forward third is a nice spot to pressure against the gold bases for example.
+ Show Spoiler [all 14 bases] +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sRgrd.jpg) main NW ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qbX0I.jpg) nat NW ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nZXlY.jpg) forward third North ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1Hy5b.jpg) highround base NE ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zL7m4.jpg) fourth East ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tBF8h.jpg) six mineral one rich gesyer base East ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/H1Op4.jpg) third East ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wWbLy.jpg) main SE ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8uypO.jpg) nat SE ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hNlCu.jpg) forward third S ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OzMln.jpg) highround base SW ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aQSrz.jpg) fourth West ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FevzV.jpg) third West ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qwtmQ.jpg) six mineral one rich gesyer base West ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VsYNR.jpg) middle area with two XNWT
thx Travis for uploading on US
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Nicest execution of a beautiful concept of a map I've ever seen. (Art-related)
About the map itself: I just think the 3rd should be closer - otherwise, it'll be too hard to get and defend. Other than that, the map's awesome. Great space to move units and not a lot of chokes. It fells good to see.
Good job. ^^
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The layout is fantastic, you did a great job on this map! One thing that I personally dislike is how the low ground all looks the same. If you're going to add water, you still have to texture it and make it look nice, or at least vary the height. Anything to make it look less monotonous (not sure if right word). Actually it might just be the overview that makes it look that way.
I really like the forward third and how nicely integrated the backdoor is for it. Without analyzer images, it's hard for me to tell, but I feel that an army on the high ground by the forward third will be able to defend a lot. It seems that if they have control of the nearby Xel'naga Tower, then they'll also be able to spot run-bys into the natural. It looks like a Zerg would have to destroy the backdoor to his own forward third to be able to avoid a run-by being spotted :/. You might want to remove the rocks there, they aren't even really needed for balance, though they are a nice and interesting touch, in my honest opinion.
I like the other expansions as well, they add to the flow of the map quite nicely. You can split the map either left vs. right or top vs. bottom, though I am thinking that splitting it top vs. bottom would be a little bit more difficult, but still possible. I like the dead-end expansions, they are placed in a good strategic location that will usually be the players last base but can allow for sneak expansions and other interesting gameplay changers that the avid spectator in me likes to see!
Overall, a solid unique map. 
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Wish this was on NA, the aesthetics are awesome. Love the mixture of tilesets, and the new style of underwater terrain. It doesn't just have to be a beach, and you've shown that here. Smacks a bit of D2's marshlands in Act III.
And also the obligatory layout comments - I like the positioning of the 3rd, and further expansions look harder to hold, but seeing how big the map looks that bit seems fine. I personally like the winding low ground, and the positions of the golds.
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One of the most appealing looking user maps I've seen.
I think you could improve the distinction between impassable water areas and passable water areas. They seem to blend from the shots you provide.
Also, it would be great to see this on NA so we could play it also and see it up close!!
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Burrowed units should become waterlogged and move slower once they unburrow. ;D
The distribution of chokepoints is quite nice. The map is a little on the open side but well within the bounds of style choice.
The choices in expansion pattern and two main options for map split... just great. I love the highground clockwise corner 4th.
NA asap please.
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Wow BEAUTIFUL map! Really want to play on it!
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(updated OP)
changes with v0.2: Destructable rocks on Golds to help Toss in ZvP. Zerg could punish FE with taking quick gold. - thanks Plexa
Thanks for all the feedback and nice comments; I hope to have the map up on NA in the next 24h so that yoi can have some fun with it, too. This way my quickest map build ever and it was a lot of fun.
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On November 08 2011 18:05 Samro225am wrote:
(updated OP)
changes with v0.2: Destructable rocks on Golds to help Toss in ZvP. Zerg could punish FE with taking quick gold. - thanks Plexa
Thanks for all the feedback and nice comments; I hope to have the map up on NA in the next 24h so that yoi can have some fun with it, too. This way my quickest map build ever and it was a lot of fun.
Is then the gold unfair on metalopolis too? I think it's okay either rocks or no rocks, but I think no rocks offers a lot more entertainment potential. If a protoss can't deny a base soooo far away as a zerg 3rd, I don't know how this game works anymore... or else it really is that ZvP imba.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 08 2011 19:01 EatThePath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 18:05 Samro225am wrote:
(updated OP)
changes with v0.2: Destructable rocks on Golds to help Toss in ZvP. Zerg could punish FE with taking quick gold. - thanks Plexa
Thanks for all the feedback and nice comments; I hope to have the map up on NA in the next 24h so that yoi can have some fun with it, too. This way my quickest map build ever and it was a lot of fun. Is then the gold unfair on metalopolis too? I think it's okay either rocks or no rocks, but I think no rocks offers a lot more entertainment potential. If a protoss can't deny a base soooo far away as a zerg 3rd, I don't know how this game works anymore... or else it really is that ZvP imba.
The gold on meta is annoying to kill if taken as a third after FFE, you don't see it often because protoss don't like to ffe normally. Antiga's gold makes PvZ hell and I suspect it will here too. Protoss units are slow, attacking a gold that far away spells trouble as you are open to counter attacks, flanks etc. It forces you into a 6gate or some kind of probe cutting pressure to keep the expo in check - which doesn't make for good games. Adding the rocks changes nothing except removes the opportunity for Zergs to get a greedy third vs P
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On November 08 2011 19:04 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 19:01 EatThePath wrote:On November 08 2011 18:05 Samro225am wrote:
(updated OP)
changes with v0.2: Destructable rocks on Golds to help Toss in ZvP. Zerg could punish FE with taking quick gold. - thanks Plexa
Thanks for all the feedback and nice comments; I hope to have the map up on NA in the next 24h so that yoi can have some fun with it, too. This way my quickest map build ever and it was a lot of fun. Is then the gold unfair on metalopolis too? I think it's okay either rocks or no rocks, but I think no rocks offers a lot more entertainment potential. If a protoss can't deny a base soooo far away as a zerg 3rd, I don't know how this game works anymore... or else it really is that ZvP imba. The gold on meta is annoying to kill if taken as a third after FFE, you don't see it often because protoss don't like to ffe normally. Antiga's gold makes PvZ hell and I suspect it will here too. Protoss units are slow, attacking a gold that far away spells trouble as you are open to counter attacks, flanks etc. It forces you into a 6gate or some kind of probe cutting pressure to keep the expo in check - which doesn't make for good games. Adding the rocks changes nothing except removes the opportunity for Zergs to get a greedy third vs P
I was thinking more along the lines of zealot pressure with possible fast +1, or zealot/voidray attacks. Way before 6gate and without cutting workers, you can even expand behind it if you want by ending the pressure. I have no idea if those things will end up being viable here or in general in the long term, so I don't mind the safe option with rocks. It just makes it more like, the base is vulnerable so to make up for that it's high yield. Instead of the converse. =\
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on the one hand the high yield base is almost exactly the same distance away from both naturals. so this is quite a differences to antiga prime.
on the other hand - and this is crucial - protoss units are less mobil then zerg. here we have to analyze the terrain and paths - and this again kind of equalizes the argument that on antiga the gold as third is so much closer for you to defend than for your opponent to attack.
the points of interests are the areas you have to control (highround, xwt, long path passing the xwt). the zerg can sit back a bit when gold and xwt control is established. zerg is quick enough to engage anywhere on his half of the map. while toss would be pretty much out of position when attacking the gold, zerg can pressure via the direct path or flank: the rush distance is only 122AU! so in a way here would have been much more to gain for zerg (with the open gold) than for toss.
to draw a conclusion: it is not as difficult as it is on antiga, but i decided to take a more conservative apporach here. as Plexa said, the rocks do not hurt at all. you can still take them as third, but not brutally fast in ZvP.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 08 2011 20:12 EatThePath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 19:04 Plexa wrote:On November 08 2011 19:01 EatThePath wrote:On November 08 2011 18:05 Samro225am wrote:
(updated OP)
changes with v0.2: Destructable rocks on Golds to help Toss in ZvP. Zerg could punish FE with taking quick gold. - thanks Plexa
Thanks for all the feedback and nice comments; I hope to have the map up on NA in the next 24h so that yoi can have some fun with it, too. This way my quickest map build ever and it was a lot of fun. Is then the gold unfair on metalopolis too? I think it's okay either rocks or no rocks, but I think no rocks offers a lot more entertainment potential. If a protoss can't deny a base soooo far away as a zerg 3rd, I don't know how this game works anymore... or else it really is that ZvP imba. The gold on meta is annoying to kill if taken as a third after FFE, you don't see it often because protoss don't like to ffe normally. Antiga's gold makes PvZ hell and I suspect it will here too. Protoss units are slow, attacking a gold that far away spells trouble as you are open to counter attacks, flanks etc. It forces you into a 6gate or some kind of probe cutting pressure to keep the expo in check - which doesn't make for good games. Adding the rocks changes nothing except removes the opportunity for Zergs to get a greedy third vs P I was thinking more along the lines of zealot pressure with possible fast +1, or zealot/voidray attacks. Way before 6gate and without cutting workers, you can even expand behind it if you want by ending the pressure. I have no idea if those things will end up being viable here or in general in the long term, so I don't mind the safe option with rocks. It just makes it more like, the base is vulnerable so to make up for that it's high yield. Instead of the converse. =\
I don't know if you play protoss, but after FFE it's really hard to do any kind of pressure without cutting probes. It's one of the (many) reasons why dual sight was so terrible pvz (the gold in the corners cant be punished). Zerg responses are getting good at holding things because they are designed to protect a normal third - in general this can be applied to defend a gold as well because you get extra income.
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this map looks legit, GJ keep up the good work.
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On November 08 2011 21:23 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 20:12 EatThePath wrote:On November 08 2011 19:04 Plexa wrote:On November 08 2011 19:01 EatThePath wrote:On November 08 2011 18:05 Samro225am wrote:
(updated OP)
changes with v0.2: Destructable rocks on Golds to help Toss in ZvP. Zerg could punish FE with taking quick gold. - thanks Plexa
Thanks for all the feedback and nice comments; I hope to have the map up on NA in the next 24h so that yoi can have some fun with it, too. This way my quickest map build ever and it was a lot of fun. Is then the gold unfair on metalopolis too? I think it's okay either rocks or no rocks, but I think no rocks offers a lot more entertainment potential. If a protoss can't deny a base soooo far away as a zerg 3rd, I don't know how this game works anymore... or else it really is that ZvP imba. The gold on meta is annoying to kill if taken as a third after FFE, you don't see it often because protoss don't like to ffe normally. Antiga's gold makes PvZ hell and I suspect it will here too. Protoss units are slow, attacking a gold that far away spells trouble as you are open to counter attacks, flanks etc. It forces you into a 6gate or some kind of probe cutting pressure to keep the expo in check - which doesn't make for good games. Adding the rocks changes nothing except removes the opportunity for Zergs to get a greedy third vs P I was thinking more along the lines of zealot pressure with possible fast +1, or zealot/voidray attacks. Way before 6gate and without cutting workers, you can even expand behind it if you want by ending the pressure. I have no idea if those things will end up being viable here or in general in the long term, so I don't mind the safe option with rocks. It just makes it more like, the base is vulnerable so to make up for that it's high yield. Instead of the converse. =\ I don't know if you play protoss, but after FFE it's really hard to do any kind of pressure without cutting probes. It's one of the (many) reasons why dual sight was so terrible pvz (the gold in the corners cant be punished). Zerg responses are getting good at holding things because they are designed to protect a normal third - in general this can be applied to defend a gold as well because you get extra income.
I do, I know you do as well. My experience is that you can stop the zerg from straight droning with some light pressure without cutting probes, but these days they are much better at defending without taking much damage (whereas before they would often lose the 3rd hatch to a +1 zealot timing or something). Also that is predicated on not getting all-in'ed, so...
On this map, if zerg took a really fast gold 3rd, you could have 2 zealots there before they have anything more than the 4-6 lings they make first. Then they have to send drones early (losing mining) to make spines, or waste a lot of larva on slow lings to make certain it won't go down to continued chrono'd zealots. However, it's pretty busted if they can ever start mining there, as always. It seems these days like viably defensible gold bases are Terran>Zerg>Protoss, and I begin to question whether it's worth it to include them.
Edit: and get it on NA naowwwww ;D
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The map looks beautiful, as for balance changes I'd say thin the natural ramp to the same of belshir/shakuras/antiga like length and change the gold minerals to normal minerals. I hope you enter the TL map contest with this one!
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Is it possible to siege the natural with tanks from the nearby base?
Also, very nice aesthetic. Very atmospheric.
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lol sam you made a work of art my friend.
@ NA players: I'll get it up on NA as soon as he gives it to me (today or tomorrow)
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Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. I don't think any of us can stress enough how gorgeous this map is.
The layout is also very fresh and interesting. I think I would have to play on it to really see how it works though...
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EPT
have to ask Ironman to give me a slot.
(hi travis!)![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3A6eq.jpg)
