EPTOn October 23 2011 15:34 jjhchsc2 wrote:
were the games good?
which series?
were the games good?
which series?
Mvp vs nestea last game was good
Blizzcon Day 2 - Page 323
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Watch how you approach the topic of match fixing. You can speculate, saying "I'm not so sure about the finals, something doesn't sit right with me," but if you are going to outright accuse players of match fixing you need something more than your word. TL takes match fixing/abuse seriously and as such there is a burden a proof when you are accusing players. - p4NDemik | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
Mvp vs nestea last game was good | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
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RaiKageRyu
Canada4773 Posts
On October 23 2011 15:37 SolidMoose wrote: I guess my only doubts about the finals were the 27 broodlords when Nestea KNEW the ghost count of MVP. He literally chose the absolute worst option zerg has for that situation. I guess it is a little weird. I see this posted so many times. And most often, no real answer what he should have done is given. When someone provokes for an answer to counter ghosts, Zerglings are usually the given answer. >_> That's great if it was truly pure ghosts but it was not the case. There was a fortitude of entrenched tanks and PFs and Thors and marines. Ground attack was not an option. I think NesTea could have turtled even harder. Secure 12 and 6 and mine out the map and play turtle defense and force Terran to attack instead. Those drops attacks from MVP were not beyond NesTea's realm to control. With enough macro hatcheries, when they finally clash, NesTea could remax instantly and overrunning MVP's remaining forces perhaps. Either way I think Zergs are not accustomed to ZvT end game stalemates yet. ZvT has evolved so much where two sides can have games like those. Zergs are too used to counterattacking when Terrans leave base and then crushing the push at the last moment. | ||
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Moragon
United States355 Posts
On October 23 2011 15:37 SolidMoose wrote: I guess my only doubts about the finals were the 27 broodlords when Nestea KNEW the ghost count of MVP. He literally chose the absolute worst option zerg has for that situation. I guess it is a little weird. The worst? Really? As if ultralisk would do better running into that tank line, planetary fortresses, and snipes. Massing infestor sure would be good against EMP. Good luck even getting an overseer to spot the ghosts without getting sniped. No zerg composition busts that army. | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10346 Posts
I wonder if the BW pros were snickering in the back as they watched Nestea regress to the horrendous ZergBong they once knew. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On October 23 2011 15:37 SolidMoose wrote: I guess my only doubts about the finals were the 27 broodlords when Nestea KNEW the ghost count of MVP. He literally chose the absolute worst option zerg has for that situation. I guess it is a little weird. When I was at the venue, I figured that was Nestea's gg-ceremony. That is, MVP had a noose around the game, impenetrable defense, equal economy and endless harass. So instead of boringly GG-ing during one of the near-simultaneous nuke landings he morphed a 'cool looking' amount of Broods and just a-moved (how else do you explain the Ultra attacking the PF, the Broods and infestors taking the middle path and the Overseers no where to be seen). That game just looked over at that point, MVP already shut down the first time Nestea tried to use Broods after all. And Nestea was trying *everything* to get past MVP's defenses and keep his expos up (he had about 8 spines at the 6 o'clock base), he even Nydused the *only* place without vision in the Southern base and was spotted b/c MVP was completing his turret ring. After that Nestea just looked really desperate, like using one BL to kill turrets and trying to Nydus again (I mean seriously? that's really grasping at straws). | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On October 23 2011 15:52 Moragon wrote: The worst? Really? As if ultralisk would do better running into that tank line, planetary fortresses, and snipes. Massing infestor sure would be good against EMP. Good luck even getting an overseer to spot the ghosts without getting sniped. No zerg composition busts that army. 27 is overkill. Every zerg player knows you need cover for your broods. And he should have been trading army's after he started floating soo much cash. Even if he only took out half the army it doesn't matter because he could have remaxed 10 times. edit: I'm re-watching the final game now. Cant stop thinking about it | ||
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On October 23 2011 09:29 Warfie wrote: Didn't read LR for the entire game, had a blast. Turn back to thread and see negativity and whining only. Enjoy the game people! Yeah, sums it up for me. So frustrating. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
And obviously when I say really bad play, I'm talking about NesTea's normal level we see throughout games. Oh well, MVP still the best player in the world. | ||
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David451
United States491 Posts
On October 23 2011 12:58 BronzeKnee wrote: I guess you missed the Winner's Bracket Finals... Nestea can easily defeat MVP, but the fact is, that has nothing to do with whether or not there was match fixing. Easily??? Wasn't that the first time Nestea EVER beat MVP in a BoX? | ||
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David451
United States491 Posts
On October 23 2011 15:55 Za7oX wrote: 27 is overkill. Every zerg player knows you need cover for your broods. And he should have been trading army's after he started floating soo much cash. Even if he only took out half the army it doesn't matter because he could have remaxed 10 times. He had some cover... But he didn't know that MVP had 15 Vikings... | ||
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David451
United States491 Posts
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On October 23 2011 16:06 David451 wrote: Easily??? Wasn't that the first time Nestea EVER beat MVP in a BoX? Yup, still doesn't really count since Mvp wasn't eliminated and came back to win two series in a row vs him to take the finals. | ||
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Lazerlike42
United States104 Posts
There are just too many good reasons he would have failed to stop those nukes to begin suggesting that it's somehow throwing the game. | ||
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epik640x
United States1134 Posts
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Clog
United States950 Posts
On October 23 2011 15:14 kofman wrote: Banelings, archon toilet. You also have to understand how expensive and hard to mass ghosts are. You can't just get 1 infestaion pit and then mass 20 of them at once, like zerg. You have to make mulitple barracks and make them one at a time, not to mention they have a long build time. Ghosts have to be that effective to make up for their cost. It was really nestea's fault for not being more aggresive when he had more than 10 thousand in the bank. Not going to get into a huge discussion, but I'm going to have to point out that banelings and archon toilets do not melt any T3 if the other player has any resemblance of a spread of their units (spreading against snipe of course does nothing). And banelings don't do well against, for example, battlecruisers. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On October 23 2011 16:04 AxionSteel wrote: Yeah, sums it up for me. So frustrating. I missed this post. I don't know about you, but I like seeing amazing levels of play which blow my mind and are something I simply couldn't even think of doing. That was not what I saw in the final game. I saw MVP holding back and NesTea doing hugely ineffective attacks with zero interesting tactics. Any Bronze league player can mass up Brood Lords (although admittedly sniping them all is maybe Gold level play. . .); simply making a lot of one expensive unit is not a huge adrenaline pumping moment as far as I'm concerned. I would much rather see amazing micro in a 10 minute game than what we got there. Don't get me wrong, it's a memorable game and I'm happy to see it; but that doesn't mean it was great quality (again, judging by MVP/NesTea standards). | ||
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ETisME
12703 Posts
On October 23 2011 15:14 kofman wrote: Banelings, archon toilet. You also have to understand how expensive and hard to mass ghosts are. You can't just get 1 infestaion pit and then mass 20 of them at once, like zerg. You have to make mulitple barracks and make them one at a time, not to mention they have a long build time. Ghosts have to be that effective to make up for their cost. It was really nestea's fault for not being more aggresive when he had more than 10 thousand in the bank. actually it isn't as hard as you say it is. Terran starts getting ghost once they scanned/see infestors. With good positioning of tanks and planetary fortress splitting the map, it is extremely easy to macro up some ghosts and just harass drop the zerg to dead | ||
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Fearest
854 Posts
On October 23 2011 15:55 Za7oX wrote: 27 is overkill. Every zerg player knows you need cover for your broods. And he should have been trading army's after he started floating soo much cash. Even if he only took out half the army it doesn't matter because he could have remaxed 10 times. Cover with what? Corruptors ? You mean those units that can't hit ground. At the end MVP had ~15 ghosts. If the brood lord counts were lower they would've died much faster. Now you're left with 10 corruptors, still gg. The infestors getting emp'd was what turned the battle so one sided. | ||
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