EPTMLG Orlando Blue Day 1 Live Report Thread - Page 47
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BuzZoo
Australia1468 Posts
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
On October 15 2011 12:54 tangwhat wrote: It doesn't force july to playing two base it forces july to delay his third by a minute or so which isn't that big of a deal(as it used to be). With VRs you have an extremely slow transition into a useful army composition whereas phoenixes allow a lot more flexibility. not at all. this build on most other maps completely shuts down a fast third, which is why day9 was so concerned with tyler picking metal, a relatively close third base map. void rays will clear out watch towers, effectively putting the zerg in more of a panic. | ||
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Xxavi
United States1248 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 15 2011 12:51 tangwhat wrote: Phoenixes are better. With VR you have to bank on doing damage and it doesn't actually give you map control. With phoenixes you're not crippled when you fail to snipe off queens/whatever. Except phoenixes make you die to roach aggression. They both have their pros and cons. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
what i should try i think it might be smart to skip blink, dont get collossi, and go straight for fast storm. all the resources spent in blink and the robo bay could get storm way faster, and storm helps alot when dealing with muta flybys or roach/ling. then blink comes shortly after by the time mutas come and you dont have to spend so much resources on collossi | ||
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Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
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tangwhat
New Zealand446 Posts
On October 15 2011 12:57 Terranist wrote: not at all. this build on most other maps completely shuts down a fast third, which is why day9 was so concerned with tyler picking metal, a relatively close third base map. void rays will clear out watch towers, effectively putting the zerg in more of a panic. Except what kind of zerg tries to take a fast third when he sees a one basing protoss? Fast thirds are common versus FFE or Nexus first, not against someone who stays on one base for awhile. Secondly if you make more than 2 lings voidrays won't deny scouting at all. I don't think VR is at all viable in PvZ and it's pretty rare that we ever see a top tier zerg actually losing to a VR opener barring IdrA. | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
 As someone who wants Tyler (and smart players in general) to succeed, that was hard to watch. It's frightening how glaring Tyler's mistakes look in a tournament of this caliber. Tyler looked very much like he deserved to lose, but so much of me wants him to look like he deserves to win | ||
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Korben
United States139 Posts
"Grandmas love Barcraft and dubstep." I really like the K[9] Combo. I can't help it. on another topic I got home late from work, has tyler even taken a Map so far? | ||
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sharktopus.
United States456 Posts
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tangwhat
New Zealand446 Posts
On October 15 2011 12:58 Plexa wrote: Except phoenixes make you die to roach aggression. They both have their pros and cons. Well yes, but I would still consider it better than VR. Though I would also say that I incredibly dislike stargate openings anyway as I don't think they work anymore. | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
probes, obs, spotter pylons, hallucination, or anything. you will always lose your 3rd if your army is 20 seconds out of position when it gets attacked. I think he would have lost with any build from that situation... it doesn't really say anything about the build. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
On October 15 2011 12:55 templar rage wrote: I think the point is to force the Zerg to play 2base for a while (at least, that's what Tyler said on SotG I believe). It just didn't really work out, I guess, though I'm not really sure what would be considered a success with the build. There's no point keeping zerg on 2 base if you don't get the third yourself. He should get a fast third, rely more on cannons for defence, then kick into production and tech once 3 bases are up. | ||
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Exarl25
1887 Posts
On October 15 2011 12:59 tangwhat wrote: Except what kind of zerg tries to take a fast third when he sees a one basing protoss? Fast thirds are common versus FFE or Nexus first, not against someone who stays on one base for awhile. Secondly if you make more than 2 lings voidrays won't deny scouting at all. I don't think VR is at all viable in PvZ and it's pretty rare that we ever see a top tier zerg actually losing to a VR opener barring IdrA. Tyler wasn't trying to win with the VRs. The idea is to deny the third while simultaneously keeping your expansion safe from any Roach aggression. Tyler loves his safe builds, it's exactly his kind of play. | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
On October 15 2011 12:59 tangwhat wrote: Except what kind of zerg tries to take a fast third when he sees a one basing protoss? Fast thirds are common versus FFE or Nexus first, not against someone who stays on one base for awhile. Secondly if you make more than 2 lings voidrays won't deny scouting at all. I don't think VR is at all viable in PvZ and it's pretty rare that we ever see a top tier zerg actually losing to a VR opener barring IdrA. if he doesn't take a third then he plays right into tyler's build. that is the point of going for VR expand. there is no way for zerg to hold towers vs VR. | ||
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tangwhat
New Zealand446 Posts
On October 15 2011 13:01 Exarl25 wrote: Tyler wasn't trying to win with the VRs. The idea is to deny the third while simultaneously keeping your expansion safe from any Roach aggression. Tyler loves his safe builds, it's exactly his kind of play. The VRs are his idea of getting himself into a good position in the midgame so actually they're pretty instrumental in getting him wins. And there are better safe builds. I dunno, I gotta admit I'm pretty biased because as much as I love Tyler I really despise stargate openings. | ||
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templar rage
United States2509 Posts
On October 15 2011 13:01 babysimba wrote: There's no point keeping zerg on 2 base if you don't get the third yourself. He should get a fast third, rely more on cannons for defence, then kick into production and tech once 3 bases are up. I hope you mean his natural. I wasn't really paying attention to his natural timing, but Tyler said that he's a lot more comfortable 2base vs 2base in PvZ, and he should be. Equal bases is generally advantageous to the toss, so why shouldn't he aim for that? | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
http://twitter.com/#!/djWHEAT/status/125058640334946304 | ||
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