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MLG Orlando Blue Day 1 Live Report Thread - Page 47

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Prev 1 45 46 47 48 49 Next All
BuzZoo
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1468 Posts
October 15 2011 03:57 GMT
#921
I'd feel bad for him. But I think he knows he isn't putting in the effort required.
Terranist
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2496 Posts
October 15 2011 03:57 GMT
#922
On October 15 2011 12:54 tangwhat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 12:52 Terranist wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:51 tangwhat wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:49 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I really don't know much about protoss strategy, but what is better a pheonix opening or a VR opening.


Phoenixes are better. With VR you have to bank on doing damage and it doesn't actually give you map control. With phoenixes you're not crippled when you fail to snipe off queens/whatever.


i disagree especially in regards to tyler's build. the VR play a crucial role in forcing july to play two base.


It doesn't force july to playing two base it forces july to delay his third by a minute or so which isn't that big of a deal(as it used to be). With VRs you have an extremely slow transition into a useful army composition whereas phoenixes allow a lot more flexibility.


not at all. this build on most other maps completely shuts down a fast third, which is why day9 was so concerned with tyler picking metal, a relatively close third base map.

void rays will clear out watch towers, effectively putting the zerg in more of a panic.
The Show of a Lifetime
Xxavi
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1248 Posts
October 15 2011 03:57 GMT
#923
There's a significant difference in class and abilities of these two players. If you don't have storm ready, why not morph those templars into archons? Why not make immortals vs roach heavy armies?
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 15 2011 03:58 GMT
#924
On October 15 2011 12:51 tangwhat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 12:49 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I really don't know much about protoss strategy, but what is better a pheonix opening or a VR opening.


Phoenixes are better. With VR you have to bank on doing damage and it doesn't actually give you map control. With phoenixes you're not crippled when you fail to snipe off queens/whatever.

Except phoenixes make you die to roach aggression. They both have their pros and cons.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
October 15 2011 03:58 GMT
#925
JulyZerg domination. The God chuckled at Tyler's mediocre attempts to take a third base, and crushed his soul.
I love crazymoving
roymarthyup
Profile Joined April 2010
1442 Posts
October 15 2011 03:58 GMT
#926
i have very hard time with julyzergs style as protoss. always with the threat of mutas or triyng to beat mass roach with stalker (because you get stalkers because you are afraid of mutas) is such a pain

what i should try i think it might be smart to skip blink, dont get collossi, and go straight for fast storm. all the resources spent in blink and the robo bay could get storm way faster, and storm helps alot when dealing with muta flybys or roach/ling. then blink comes shortly after by the time mutas come and you dont have to spend so much resources on collossi
Snorkle
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1648 Posts
October 15 2011 03:59 GMT
#927
Tyler lack of playing the game really shows at tournaments. Pretty sad showing from him again =/
tangwhat
Profile Joined May 2010
New Zealand446 Posts
October 15 2011 03:59 GMT
#928
On October 15 2011 12:57 Terranist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 12:54 tangwhat wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:52 Terranist wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:51 tangwhat wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:49 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I really don't know much about protoss strategy, but what is better a pheonix opening or a VR opening.


Phoenixes are better. With VR you have to bank on doing damage and it doesn't actually give you map control. With phoenixes you're not crippled when you fail to snipe off queens/whatever.


i disagree especially in regards to tyler's build. the VR play a crucial role in forcing july to play two base.


It doesn't force july to playing two base it forces july to delay his third by a minute or so which isn't that big of a deal(as it used to be). With VRs you have an extremely slow transition into a useful army composition whereas phoenixes allow a lot more flexibility.


not at all. this build on most other maps completely shuts down a fast third, which is why day9 was so concerned with tyler picking metal, a relatively close third base map.

void rays will clear out watch towers, effectively putting the zerg in more of a panic.


Except what kind of zerg tries to take a fast third when he sees a one basing protoss? Fast thirds are common versus FFE or Nexus first, not against someone who stays on one base for awhile. Secondly if you make more than 2 lings voidrays won't deny scouting at all. I don't think VR is at all viable in PvZ and it's pretty rare that we ever see a top tier zerg actually losing to a VR opener barring IdrA.
Staboteur
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada1873 Posts
October 15 2011 04:00 GMT
#929
Gaaah

As someone who wants Tyler (and smart players in general) to succeed, that was hard to watch.

It's frightening how glaring Tyler's mistakes look in a tournament of this caliber. Tyler looked very much like he deserved to lose, but so much of me wants him to look like he deserves to win
I'm actually Fleetfeet D:
Korben
Profile Joined September 2010
United States139 Posts
October 15 2011 04:00 GMT
#930
quote of the day so far?

"Grandmas love Barcraft and dubstep."

I really like the K[9] Combo. I can't help it.


on another topic I got home late from work, has tyler even taken a Map so far?
Pain Heals, Chicks Dig Scars and Glory Lasts Forever.
sharktopus.
Profile Joined April 2011
United States456 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-15 04:01:50
October 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#931
Tyler just doesn't practice enough. He has strong builds, and he's a good player on ladder, but you can't go into a tournament and face guys that practice 40 hours a week and expect to win.
tangwhat
Profile Joined May 2010
New Zealand446 Posts
October 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#932
On October 15 2011 12:58 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 12:51 tangwhat wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:49 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I really don't know much about protoss strategy, but what is better a pheonix opening or a VR opening.


Phoenixes are better. With VR you have to bank on doing damage and it doesn't actually give you map control. With phoenixes you're not crippled when you fail to snipe off queens/whatever.

Except phoenixes make you die to roach aggression. They both have their pros and cons.


Well yes, but I would still consider it better than VR. Though I would also say that I incredibly dislike stargate openings anyway as I don't think they work anymore.
Oboeman
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3980 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-15 04:03:04
October 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#933
the problem was that tyler's army was ridiculously out of position when julyzerg attacked his 3rd at the end. He needed some kind of map awareness to know july's angle of attack so his army wouldn't have to walk 15 seconds to engage.

probes, obs, spotter pylons, hallucination, or anything.

you will always lose your 3rd if your army is 20 seconds out of position when it gets attacked.

I think he would have lost with any build from that situation... it doesn't really say anything about the build.
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
October 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#934
On October 15 2011 12:55 templar rage wrote:
I think the point is to force the Zerg to play 2base for a while (at least, that's what Tyler said on SotG I believe). It just didn't really work out, I guess, though I'm not really sure what would be considered a success with the build.


There's no point keeping zerg on 2 base if you don't get the third yourself. He should get a fast third, rely more on cannons for defence, then kick into production and tech once 3 bases are up.
Exarl25
Profile Joined November 2010
1887 Posts
October 15 2011 04:01 GMT
#935
On October 15 2011 12:59 tangwhat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 12:57 Terranist wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:54 tangwhat wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:52 Terranist wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:51 tangwhat wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:49 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I really don't know much about protoss strategy, but what is better a pheonix opening or a VR opening.


Phoenixes are better. With VR you have to bank on doing damage and it doesn't actually give you map control. With phoenixes you're not crippled when you fail to snipe off queens/whatever.


i disagree especially in regards to tyler's build. the VR play a crucial role in forcing july to play two base.


It doesn't force july to playing two base it forces july to delay his third by a minute or so which isn't that big of a deal(as it used to be). With VRs you have an extremely slow transition into a useful army composition whereas phoenixes allow a lot more flexibility.


not at all. this build on most other maps completely shuts down a fast third, which is why day9 was so concerned with tyler picking metal, a relatively close third base map.

void rays will clear out watch towers, effectively putting the zerg in more of a panic.


Except what kind of zerg tries to take a fast third when he sees a one basing protoss? Fast thirds are common versus FFE or Nexus first, not against someone who stays on one base for awhile. Secondly if you make more than 2 lings voidrays won't deny scouting at all. I don't think VR is at all viable in PvZ and it's pretty rare that we ever see a top tier zerg actually losing to a VR opener barring IdrA.


Tyler wasn't trying to win with the VRs. The idea is to deny the third while simultaneously keeping your expansion safe from any Roach aggression. Tyler loves his safe builds, it's exactly his kind of play.
Terranist
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2496 Posts
October 15 2011 04:03 GMT
#936
On October 15 2011 12:59 tangwhat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 12:57 Terranist wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:54 tangwhat wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:52 Terranist wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:51 tangwhat wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:49 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I really don't know much about protoss strategy, but what is better a pheonix opening or a VR opening.


Phoenixes are better. With VR you have to bank on doing damage and it doesn't actually give you map control. With phoenixes you're not crippled when you fail to snipe off queens/whatever.


i disagree especially in regards to tyler's build. the VR play a crucial role in forcing july to play two base.


It doesn't force july to playing two base it forces july to delay his third by a minute or so which isn't that big of a deal(as it used to be). With VRs you have an extremely slow transition into a useful army composition whereas phoenixes allow a lot more flexibility.


not at all. this build on most other maps completely shuts down a fast third, which is why day9 was so concerned with tyler picking metal, a relatively close third base map.

void rays will clear out watch towers, effectively putting the zerg in more of a panic.


Except what kind of zerg tries to take a fast third when he sees a one basing protoss? Fast thirds are common versus FFE or Nexus first, not against someone who stays on one base for awhile. Secondly if you make more than 2 lings voidrays won't deny scouting at all. I don't think VR is at all viable in PvZ and it's pretty rare that we ever see a top tier zerg actually losing to a VR opener barring IdrA.


if he doesn't take a third then he plays right into tyler's build. that is the point of going for VR expand. there is no way for zerg to hold towers vs VR.
The Show of a Lifetime
tangwhat
Profile Joined May 2010
New Zealand446 Posts
October 15 2011 04:03 GMT
#937
On October 15 2011 13:01 Exarl25 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 12:59 tangwhat wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:57 Terranist wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:54 tangwhat wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:52 Terranist wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:51 tangwhat wrote:
On October 15 2011 12:49 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I really don't know much about protoss strategy, but what is better a pheonix opening or a VR opening.


Phoenixes are better. With VR you have to bank on doing damage and it doesn't actually give you map control. With phoenixes you're not crippled when you fail to snipe off queens/whatever.


i disagree especially in regards to tyler's build. the VR play a crucial role in forcing july to play two base.


It doesn't force july to playing two base it forces july to delay his third by a minute or so which isn't that big of a deal(as it used to be). With VRs you have an extremely slow transition into a useful army composition whereas phoenixes allow a lot more flexibility.


not at all. this build on most other maps completely shuts down a fast third, which is why day9 was so concerned with tyler picking metal, a relatively close third base map.

void rays will clear out watch towers, effectively putting the zerg in more of a panic.


Except what kind of zerg tries to take a fast third when he sees a one basing protoss? Fast thirds are common versus FFE or Nexus first, not against someone who stays on one base for awhile. Secondly if you make more than 2 lings voidrays won't deny scouting at all. I don't think VR is at all viable in PvZ and it's pretty rare that we ever see a top tier zerg actually losing to a VR opener barring IdrA.


Tyler wasn't trying to win with the VRs. The idea is to deny the third while simultaneously keeping your expansion safe from any Roach aggression. Tyler loves his safe builds, it's exactly his kind of play.


The VRs are his idea of getting himself into a good position in the midgame so actually they're pretty instrumental in getting him wins. And there are better safe builds. I dunno, I gotta admit I'm pretty biased because as much as I love Tyler I really despise stargate openings.
templar rage
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2509 Posts
October 15 2011 04:04 GMT
#938
On October 15 2011 13:01 babysimba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 12:55 templar rage wrote:
I think the point is to force the Zerg to play 2base for a while (at least, that's what Tyler said on SotG I believe). It just didn't really work out, I guess, though I'm not really sure what would be considered a success with the build.


There's no point keeping zerg on 2 base if you don't get the third yourself. He should get a fast third, rely more on cannons for defence, then kick into production and tech once 3 bases are up.


I hope you mean his natural. I wasn't really paying attention to his natural timing, but Tyler said that he's a lot more comfortable 2base vs 2base in PvZ, and he should be. Equal bases is generally advantageous to the toss, so why shouldn't he aim for that?
roymarthyup
Profile Joined April 2010
1442 Posts
October 15 2011 04:04 GMT
#939
tylers opener wasnt so bad. tyler was most likely equal on economy and AHEAD in army size (resources spent) in most of the early battles. the problem was roaches beat stalkers heavily. not balance whining i believe roaches SHOULD beat stalkers but its hard for protoss to find a solution to this. theres probably a solution out there we just didnt see it this game
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
October 15 2011 04:04 GMT
#940
dawww etc

http://twitter.com/#!/djWHEAT/status/125058640334946304
@followMVT
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