No Korean player will take part in IeSF 2011 World Championship's Starcraft 2 tournament.
International e-Sports Federation(IeSF) plans to hold IeSF 2011 World Championship in Andong, Korea from October 6th to October 9th, but oddly no Korean representative will be chosen.
IeSF has chosen FIFA Online 2, A.V.A., and Starcraft 2 as official titles for the event.
However, according to event organizers, there is no plan to select Korean representative in Starcraft 2 tournament. KeSPA is in charge of choosing Korean representative for IeSF 2011.
According to KeSPA, "since Starcraft 2 is not the officially recognized event of KeSPA, there is no plan to choose a Korean representative." This means that although they are holding the event will in Korea, there will be no Korean player participating. The situation is hard to comprehend.
It is frustrating given Korean Starcraft 2 progamer's successes including those in foreign tournaments and their popularity around the world.
Also, the policy flies in the face of IeSF's vision: "Joint Development in Global e-Sports" and could raise the concern that 'domestic matters affecting international tournament.'
The city of Andong plans to hold a separate event '4th Andong Hahoe Masks eSports Hanmadang' which will include Starcraft 2. So Korean and foreign players will at the same place at the same time, but they will be playing in different leagues.
Due to the organizer's incomprehensible event management, the guest and the host will be sitting in different tables at a party. The situation is not even funny.
TL;DR:
KeSPA is in charge of choosing Korean representatives for IeSF 2011 They are not going to choose one for SC2 because they don't recognize it
Update
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
Its one player per country. And some countries don't hold qualifiers. So I think it`s not possible to have an all-star line-up. It would have been "only" one Korean, too. Still really stupid that there isn't one when it takes place in Korea.
'4th Andong Hahoe Masks eSports Hanmadang' Best. Event name. Ever. On a more serious note, considering the current qualified players for Iesf, it is just as well that no Koreans will participate :[
Yeah, it's strange that IeSF is trying to rely on KeSPA here. It makes some sense that KeSPA refuses to pick a representative since they have nothing to do with SC2 right now.
I guess it shows people who were saying " we need kespa for sc2" in the sc2con thread that kespa is a terrible organisation, they have done some good stuff for bw, but also a LOT of stupid ones, like this one.
On September 27 2011 02:00 Jetaap wrote: I guess it shows people who were saying " we need kespa for sc2" in the sc2con thread that kespa is a terrible organisation, they have done some good stuff for bw, but also a LOT of stupid ones, like this one.
it would be stupid if KeSPA tries to pick a sc2 representative for Korea. They have absolutely nothing to do with it in Korea right now. The IeSF organizer is the one to blame here
they emailed me an invite a few months back and basically I asked "is this for SC2?" and they went "nope" then I thanked em but declined. It would seem upon more thought they have gone with SC2
Why are so many people shocked that they don't want to promote a competitors product essentially? Once BW is less profitable, they'll make the switch to support SC2. Logic only follows money, not sentiment.
On September 27 2011 02:24 Klipsys wrote: Why are so many people shocked that they don't want to promote a competitors product essentially? Once BW is less profitable, they'll make the switch to support SC2. Logic only follows money, not sentiment.
I don't really see how that's logical. You don't actively do things to make the market you might one day try get into not want you in there. It just makes no sense. This isn't really promoting SC2 in korea. There's still an SC2 even in Korea, it just makes Korea look laughable that they can't get their own players to an event in their own country.
lol KeSPA works so hard to be hated by all the foreigners, and lets face it.. THEY DO A GOOD JOB!
First they created a system where there was almost no chance for foreigner participation even tho there is alot of guys that love BW and SC2 outside of korea and could bring alot more exposure and money to their scene.. but they say NO!
This is IeSF... the lineup isn't supposed to be super top notch. Idk if you guys have never seen an IeSF before, or what you're thinking, but IeSF is all about inviting as many nations as possible to bring 1 2 or 3 competitors to compete in an awesome battle of the nations tournament. Similar to WCG, but obviously different. It's called the International eSports Federation because they aim at international competition, not the utmost and highest level of competition. Should be a great IeSF, and I hope KeSPA dies in a burning flame. And that all people making real decisions in KeSPA somehow go bankrupt and live miserable lives.
yay, KeSPA getting it's hands dirty in SC2 so soon already. awesome. I hope all the KeSPA fanboys in the sc2con disbands thread reads this thread and takes a serious thought about their "magical organization that made esports happen!"
I get to finally use the "This is ruining e-sports" meme! Hurrah!
But on a more serious note, I think this is really odd, not to mention the fact that everyone wants to see Koreans. Why get pumped for a tournament unless the best of the best are going to be playing?
Don't blame Kespa they have no interest in SC2 you can't blame a group for not doing what they were made for. You guys are just mindlessly hating on Kespa which there are valid reasons for but thats SC1. Why don't you guys blame IesF, they could have just chosen korean players themselves. Ever considered that?
A global KeSPA would NOT be useful... A Global eSports organization, could be useful. KeSPA is a fail organization that is consumed with greed and ugly people. An organization that runs basically the way KeSPA is supposed to run (to work for, and benefit eSports in Korea; in this case the world) would be pretty sweet. You'd be able to count on them to assist everyone with legal documentation in regards to visas and w/e more. They'd be able to help judicially in terms of organizations holding out on paying players prize money; they'd be able to help out with organizing massive tournaments with huge prize pools and tons of sponsors from everywhere; they'd be able to provide massive amounts of assistance.
The 'Global KeSPA' (global esports organization) idea is a cool one, as long as it's nothing like KeSPA. The problem is that it would be way too hard to actually make one.
KeSPA was in charge back when they were still going to do bw. and KeSPA is in charge of choosing all the Korean players for all the games IeSF has. Since KeSPA does not have any interest in sc2. they won't choose a plyer, since nobody plays sc2 in Korea anyways.
This is good news. and I fully support this move by KeSPA. Maybe next year IeSF will go back to bw to get the fan support.
it's kind of silly but in the end kespa probably just doesn't have the resources to pour into sc2 and get preliminaries rolling, especially since it's a game they're not in charge of.
yes it's silly but i bet it more has to do with the fact that they have enough trouble covering their bases on the events they officially recognize (esp when one of them needs a lot of attention atm ^^;; to have the resources to pour into sc2
the article is pretty sensationalist though since kespa will probably be covering sc2 in the future and they actually had long talks with blizzard about it. but i guess people are so quick to blame shit and sensationalize anything regarding kespa and assume things just because of things they've overheard and gotten sensationalized based on netizen reactions and assume their outdated information still hold
Also kind of funny people ask "Why is kespa in charge of iesf"... iesf is something kespa made to begin with
I don't get what's up with all the kespa hate. I agree kespa makes questionable decisions often, but this time I feel like they made the correct decision. IeSF should not have asked kespa to pick Korean reps because kespa is not the group that manages Korean sc2 progamers. That's like asking a softball organization to pick baseball players. I don't wanna get into talking about whether kespa is necessary in sc2 or not but this is not something to blame kespa for.
On September 27 2011 03:54 masterbreti wrote: KeSPA was in charge back when they were still going to do bw. and KeSPA is in charge of choosing all the Korean players for all the games IeSF has. Since KeSPA does not have any interest in sc2. they won't choose a plyer, since nobody plays sc2 in Korea anyways.
This is good news. and I fully support this move by KeSPA. Maybe next year IeSF will go back to bw to get the fan support.
You're a little bit closed minded there, aren't you...
why are they even using kespa? theres no bw in the tourney, so they shouldve gone to gretech for SC2. kespas shown all along theyve got the maturity level of a 4 year old.
On September 27 2011 03:56 l10f wrote: I don't get what's up with all the kespa hate. I agree kespa makes questionable decisions often, but this time I feel like they made the correct decision. IeSF should not have asked kespa to pick Korean reps because kespa is not the group that manages Korean sc2 progamers. That's like asking a softball organization to pick baseball players. I don't wanna get into talking about whether kespa is necessary in sc2 or not but this is not something to blame kespa for.
Kespa had an opportunity to show themselves as being relatively magnanimous and asking GOM to take care of it though. I don't think Kespa should do the picking themselves, but rather should've let GOM take care of it.
Does this include Korean players on foreign teams, like PuMa and HerO? What about coL.MVP and their partnership? Could Korean teams put forth foreign players, like IMFenix, or possibly TSL.MajOr? (I know he's not officially on TSL however).
This is completely ridiculous, both on the front that IeSF went to KeSPA regarding SC2, and on the front that KeSPA returned with this statement.
On September 27 2011 03:55 Milkis wrote: it's kind of silly but in the end kespa probably just doesn't have the resources to pour into sc2 and get preliminaries rolling, especially since it's a game they're not in charge of.
yes it's silly but i bet it more has to do with the fact that they have enough trouble covering their bases on the events they officially recognize (esp when one of them needs a lot of attention atm ^^;; to have the resources to pour into sc2
the article is pretty sensationalist though since kespa will probably be covering sc2 in the future and they actually had long talks with blizzard about it. but i guess people are so quick to blame shit and sensationalize anything regarding kespa and assume things just because of things they've overheard and gotten sensationalized based on netizen reactions and assume their outdated information still hold
Also kind of funny people ask "Why is kespa in charge of iesf"... iesf is something kespa made to begin with
On September 27 2011 01:17 amazingxkcd wrote: Well, KeSPA doesn't recognizes SC2 because they do not want to deal with Blizzard on it. It makes sense for their decision.
more like trying to block Sc2 so that BW can still hold longer as much as they can. KESPA doesn't have rights in SC2 and won't have any control.
I'm sure there are plenty of competent organizations to which they could outsource the running of the qualifiers. That they chose to go this route instead just reinforces my opinion that KESPA doesn't actually give a crap about esports beyond how they can make money from it.
Why would you put kespa in charge of picking players in the first place if sc2 is one of your main games for the tournament. Clearly they are just being sour grapes trying to screw over their perceived competition any chance they get.
For me it feels like KESPA is trying to keep SC2 out of Korea with this, because in a sense there could be a slight interest for the tournament from BW-Fans if, say, BoxeR got to play.
But without a Korean to cheer for the Korean crowd won't be as interested in the tournament as they could be.
And here you have it, my very own conspiracy theory.
part of it is bad scheduling, many "known" players are heading to IPL 3 in atlantic city rather than be interested in a less prestigious and smaller prize pool tourney
IeSF - 12.5k, 7.5k, 5k payouts for 1-3rd IPL - 30k, 12k, 8k, 6k payouts for 1-4th, not to mention top 32 get 1k guaranteed.
Wow, I really don't get the anger coming from this article. From the point of view of the people running the tournament, of course I'd be angry. But from KeSPA's point of view: why spend money on supporting SC2 for the sake of a small tournament that isn't going to attract many viewers anyway?
Go ahead and disagree with KeSPA. That's fine. But the anger coming through in this article is unnecessary and counterproductive.
Kespa is ridiculous lmao. Remove these ridiculous power hungry organizations. Broodwar is the only thing keeping that power hungry organization afloat.
On September 27 2011 04:30 Datum wrote: Wow, I really don't get the anger coming from this article. From the point of view of the people running the tournament, of course I'd be angry. But from KeSPA's point of view: why spend money on supporting SC2 for the sake of a small tournament that isn't going to attract many viewers anyway?
Go ahead and disagree with KeSPA. That's fine. But the anger coming through in this article is unnecessary and counterproductive.
How much extra money does it take to support the game by offering invites to players locally? Nothing. It's KeSPA blocking SC2 in Korea because it fears Brood War is starting to fade. SC2 is going to be in the tournament regardless, KeSPA is just blocking Korean players from playing in the tournament. It's completely silly, that's where the anger is coming from.
On September 27 2011 04:30 Datum wrote: Wow, I really don't get the anger coming from this article. From the point of view of the people running the tournament, of course I'd be angry. But from KeSPA's point of view: why spend money on supporting SC2 for the sake of a small tournament that isn't going to attract many viewers anyway?
Go ahead and disagree with KeSPA. That's fine. But the anger coming through in this article is unnecessary and counterproductive.
How much extra money does it take to support the game by offering invites to players locally? Nothing. It's KeSPA blocking SC2 in Korea because it fears Brood War is starting to fade. SC2 is going to be in the tournament regardless, KeSPA is just blocking Korean players from playing in the tournament. It's completely silly, that's where the anger is coming from.
That or it knows SC2 is just a small niche market in Korea and BW is doing just fine, cause it is. Fabulous even.
On September 27 2011 04:03 EcstatiC wrote: why are they even using kespa? theres no bw in the tourney, so they shouldve gone to gretech for SC2. kespas shown all along theyve got the maturity level of a 4 year old.
KeSPA is involved with more than just BW. I don't see why people are upset with them about this.
On September 27 2011 01:04 Dante08 wrote: WTF lol. Held in Korea but no Koreans allowed, great for foreigners but sucks for us spectators. And KeSPA being KeSPA
It's not their fault. They'd recognise it if Blizzard and GOMTV would actually let them have some control over the scene.
How stupid is it to hold an event in Korea for starcraft 2 and have 0 Koreans playing at the event? What a dumb event, people shouldn't go to this if that's the case and I surely won't be watching.
It's like a North American Championship, without any North American player. Would be similar if NASL forbids players like Incontrol or Machine to participate, and only DeMusliM and Puma were allowed.
On September 27 2011 04:30 Datum wrote: Wow, I really don't get the anger coming from this article. From the point of view of the people running the tournament, of course I'd be angry. But from KeSPA's point of view: why spend money on supporting SC2 for the sake of a small tournament that isn't going to attract many viewers anyway?
Go ahead and disagree with KeSPA. That's fine. But the anger coming through in this article is unnecessary and counterproductive.
How much extra money does it take to support the game by offering invites to players locally? Nothing. It's KeSPA blocking SC2 in Korea because it fears Brood War is starting to fade. SC2 is going to be in the tournament regardless, KeSPA is just blocking Korean players from playing in the tournament. It's completely silly, that's where the anger is coming from.
That or it knows SC2 is just a small niche market in Korea and BW is doing just fine, cause it is. Fabulous even.
Yay, just what we needed. People to bring up the BW v SC2 debate.
On September 27 2011 04:30 Datum wrote: Wow, I really don't get the anger coming from this article. From the point of view of the people running the tournament, of course I'd be angry. But from KeSPA's point of view: why spend money on supporting SC2 for the sake of a small tournament that isn't going to attract many viewers anyway?
Go ahead and disagree with KeSPA. That's fine. But the anger coming through in this article is unnecessary and counterproductive.
How much extra money does it take to support the game by offering invites to players locally? Nothing. It's KeSPA blocking SC2 in Korea because it fears Brood War is starting to fade. SC2 is going to be in the tournament regardless, KeSPA is just blocking Korean players from playing in the tournament. It's completely silly, that's where the anger is coming from.
That or it knows SC2 is just a small niche market in Korea and BW is doing just fine, cause it is. Fabulous even.
Yay, just what we needed. People to bring up the BW v SC2 debate.
lol, I'm not saying SC2 is bad or BW deserves the spotlight, but you can't say that SC2 is anywhere near as popular in Korea.
On September 27 2011 04:30 Datum wrote: Wow, I really don't get the anger coming from this article. From the point of view of the people running the tournament, of course I'd be angry. But from KeSPA's point of view: why spend money on supporting SC2 for the sake of a small tournament that isn't going to attract many viewers anyway?
Go ahead and disagree with KeSPA. That's fine. But the anger coming through in this article is unnecessary and counterproductive.
How much extra money does it take to support the game by offering invites to players locally? Nothing. It's KeSPA blocking SC2 in Korea because it fears Brood War is starting to fade. SC2 is going to be in the tournament regardless, KeSPA is just blocking Korean players from playing in the tournament. It's completely silly, that's where the anger is coming from.
That or it knows SC2 is just a small niche market in Korea and BW is doing just fine, cause it is. Fabulous even.
I didn't say they were well founded fears at all, I for one know Brood War is still going strong in Korea, much more so than SC2. However, with OGN branching out and broadcasting the WCG Korea stuff, you would think KeSPA would be just as accommodating if they wanted the scene to grow at all. What do they gain by preventing Korean players from competing in a tournament that is already going to host SC2 whether Koreans play or not?
This is sad news for the Korean players. To me, it's not about that KeSPA has never heard of it but what about the players? Normally in the end, the players have the right to join the tournament, and to represent there country. I say let the players play there dominate game.
On September 27 2011 04:30 Datum wrote: Wow, I really don't get the anger coming from this article. From the point of view of the people running the tournament, of course I'd be angry. But from KeSPA's point of view: why spend money on supporting SC2 for the sake of a small tournament that isn't going to attract many viewers anyway?
Go ahead and disagree with KeSPA. That's fine. But the anger coming through in this article is unnecessary and counterproductive.
How much extra money does it take to support the game by offering invites to players locally? Nothing. It's KeSPA blocking SC2 in Korea because it fears Brood War is starting to fade. SC2 is going to be in the tournament regardless, KeSPA is just blocking Korean players from playing in the tournament. It's completely silly, that's where the anger is coming from.
That or it knows SC2 is just a small niche market in Korea and BW is doing just fine, cause it is. Fabulous even.
I didn't say they were well founded fears at all, I for one know Brood War is still going strong in Korea, much more so than SC2. However, with OGN branching out and broadcasting the WCG Korea stuff, you would think KeSPA would be just as accommodating if they wanted the scene to grow at all. What do they gain by preventing Korean players from competing in a tournament that is already going to host SC2 whether Koreans play or not?
The simple answer is that they can't send any players. SC2 isn't in their jurisdiction. Yes, it sucks that there isn't going to be any GSL players competing, but it's not their job to associate themselves with SC2.
Whether they spite SC2 with all their hate or love it to death, it's not their place.
how is it even possible that an organisation that has absolutly nothing to do with SC2 is in charge when it comes to chosing a SC2 player. It is understandable that Kespa trys to sabotage it, but why were they given the position to do so. This is clearly IeSFs fault.
On September 27 2011 04:30 Datum wrote: Wow, I really don't get the anger coming from this article. From the point of view of the people running the tournament, of course I'd be angry. But from KeSPA's point of view: why spend money on supporting SC2 for the sake of a small tournament that isn't going to attract many viewers anyway?
Go ahead and disagree with KeSPA. That's fine. But the anger coming through in this article is unnecessary and counterproductive.
How much extra money does it take to support the game by offering invites to players locally? Nothing. It's KeSPA blocking SC2 in Korea because it fears Brood War is starting to fade. SC2 is going to be in the tournament regardless, KeSPA is just blocking Korean players from playing in the tournament. It's completely silly, that's where the anger is coming from.
That or it knows SC2 is just a small niche market in Korea and BW is doing just fine, cause it is. Fabulous even.
I didn't say they were well founded fears at all, I for one know Brood War is still going strong in Korea, much more so than SC2. However, with OGN branching out and broadcasting the WCG Korea stuff, you would think KeSPA would be just as accommodating if they wanted the scene to grow at all. What do they gain by preventing Korean players from competing in a tournament that is already going to host SC2 whether Koreans play or not?
The simple answer is that they can't send any players. SC2 isn't in their jurisdiction. Yes, it sucks that there isn't going to be any GSL players competing, but it's not their job to associate themselves with SC2.
Whether they spite SC2 with all their hate or love it to death, it's not their place.
All they had to do was suggest it to GOM, they'd be more than welcome to choose a player based on GSL points or hold some sort of quick qualifier. Instead they literally prevent it from happening. It's not their place yet they're standing in the way? hmm.
So they asked an organization that isn't involved in SC2 to pick the SC2 players... lolwhat? or is it that they weren't allowed to ask anyone else but kespa?
On September 27 2011 04:48 xBillehx wrote: All they had to do was suggest it to GOM, they'd be more than welcome to choose a player based on GSL points or hold some sort of quick qualifier. Instead they literally prevent it from happening. It's not their place yet they're standing in the way? hmm.
They're not required to go to any lengths for SC2.
On September 27 2011 04:50 LittleAtari wrote: So they asked an organization that isn't involved in SC2 to pick the SC2 players... lolwhat? or is it that they weren't allowed to ask anyone else but kespa?
I was curios about this also. Seems odd to ask Kespa when they (apparently) want nothing to do with SC2.
korean e-sport players association - the name says everything, or it's not?
there aren't players that plays SC2 under KeSPA and IeSF done great job. Look it from their side. They will be in good relations with KeSPA and they will promote SC2 even further. I mean, what are the chances foreigner wins tournament in Korea if Koreans are playing? There will be a chance for Koreans at WCG that is held in Korea so this is ment to be something different. And there are two different games, that are under KeSPA and that are played by many gamers around the world (SC2 is not the only popular game). Two games beats one game. And in those games chances are more even for everybody.
And just to mention one thing, IeSF is ment to be like FIBA or FIFA, it recognizes associations and GOM is not an association of that kind so KeSPA was only choice in Korea.
I mean, look it from neutral side, KeSPA had nothing to do with it, they can't invite players that aren't under them and IeSF didn't wanted to do it - with reasons above.
On September 27 2011 04:48 xBillehx wrote: All they had to do was suggest it to GOM, they'd be more than welcome to choose a player based on GSL points or hold some sort of quick qualifier. Instead they literally prevent it from happening. It's not their place yet they're standing in the way? hmm.
They're not required to go to any lengths for SC2.
They don't have to. Again, a SC2 tournament is happening at IeSF regardless, but they're preventing any Korean from participating by not at least letting IeSF management go ask GOM? They're putting more effort into stopping it than they would have to by just letting it go. They're not required to go to any lengths to benefit SC2, but stopping Korean participation is just up their alley?
Is KeSPA the esports organization or is it the BW organization. Shouldn't it recognize all esports in Korea? Answer: of course, but legally we're afraid.
On September 27 2011 04:30 Datum wrote: Wow, I really don't get the anger coming from this article. From the point of view of the people running the tournament, of course I'd be angry. But from KeSPA's point of view: why spend money on supporting SC2 for the sake of a small tournament that isn't going to attract many viewers anyway?
Go ahead and disagree with KeSPA. That's fine. But the anger coming through in this article is unnecessary and counterproductive.
How much extra money does it take to support the game by offering invites to players locally? Nothing. It's KeSPA blocking SC2 in Korea because it fears Brood War is starting to fade. SC2 is going to be in the tournament regardless, KeSPA is just blocking Korean players from playing in the tournament. It's completely silly, that's where the anger is coming from.
That or it knows SC2 is just a small niche market in Korea and BW is doing just fine, cause it is. Fabulous even.
I guess you haven't read the BW forums lately? Teams are shutting down left and right. Leagues are closing up shop. TV stations will be ending their mainstream coverage soon.
BW is struggling to exist as an E-Sport. It's not thriving.
On September 27 2011 04:57 Chargelot wrote: I guess you haven't read the BW forums lately? Teams are shutting down left and right. Leagues are closing up shop. TV stations will be ending their mainstream coverage soon.
BW is struggling to exist as an E-Sport. It's not thriving.
OSL Finals viewership numbers.
Honestly, BW is in no danger of disappearing. Despite the recent flow of bad news, she'll still be around for at least a couple more years. Let's not light the beacons of Gondor just yet.
On September 27 2011 04:56 xBillehx wrote: They don't have to. Again, a SC2 tournament is happening at IeSF regardless, but they're preventing any Korean from participating by not at least letting IeSF management go ask GOM? They're putting more effort into stopping it than they would have to by just letting it go. They're not required to go to any lengths to benefit SC2, but stopping Korean participation is just up their alley?
I think the above poster nailed it:
On September 27 2011 04:54 purgerinho wrote: And just to mention one thing, IeSF is ment to be like FIBA or FIFA, it recognizes associations and GOM is not an association of that kind so KeSPA was (the) only choice in Korea.
I mean, look it from neutral side, KeSPA had nothing to do with it, they can't invite players that aren't under them and IeSF didn't wanted to do it - with reasons above.
And one more thing: KeSPA could say NO to sc2 in this tournament but KeSPA want part in it one day so thay let it in this way. I mean, this story is great if you love this kind of situations. Legal, illegal, fighting for better position, trying to be good with everybody, etc.
KeSPA is as good or bad as Blizzard. But I would say that Blizzard is bad guy of this story. I mean, they will never give us a LAN option what saying everything about their plans (monopoly).
On September 27 2011 01:41 OneWhoIsMany wrote: If this is true (as the source is a dead link?) another example of why we are so lucky to not have Kespa being involved in the Starcraft 2 community.
Why is that lucky? If they were involved then there would be Korean players in, or do you not want that?
People jumping to blame KeSPA: it's BLIZZARD that shut KeSPA out of SC2. Their decision. You don't try and shut them out and then expect them to do things like this. There's no SC2 gamers with programing licenses and official with KeSPA so how can they pick anyone? What are they supposed to base their picks on when they are not allowed to be involved with the game?
On September 27 2011 04:56 0neder wrote: Is KeSPA the esports organization or is it the BW organization. Shouldn't it recognize all esports in Korea? Answer: of course, but legally we're afraid.
KeSPA - Korean eSports Association.
SC2 isn't supported by them so i dont know why people are trippin.
On September 27 2011 04:48 xBillehx wrote: All they had to do was suggest it to GOM, they'd be more than welcome to choose a player based on GSL points or hold some sort of quick qualifier. Instead they literally prevent it from happening. It's not their place yet they're standing in the way? hmm.
They're not required to go to any lengths for SC2.
AFAIK They're not required to go to any lengths for FIFA either. Not only are they NOT choosing Korean representatives, they're NOT ALLOWING them.
well if they really don't want to spend any resources because they think SC2 is not big enough, then they can always go " Alright we'll recognize whoever GOM chooses" or they can even take from WCG qualifiers broadcasted on OGN.
On September 27 2011 04:48 xBillehx wrote: All they had to do was suggest it to GOM, they'd be more than welcome to choose a player based on GSL points or hold some sort of quick qualifier. Instead they literally prevent it from happening. It's not their place yet they're standing in the way? hmm.
They're not required to go to any lengths for SC2.
AFAIK They're not required to go to any lengths for FIFA either. Not only are they NOT choosing Korean representatives, they're NOT ALLOWING them.
On September 27 2011 04:54 purgerinho wrote: And just to mention one thing, IeSF is ment to be like FIBA or FIFA, it recognizes associations and GOM is not an association of that kind so KeSPA was (the) only choice in Korea.
I mean, look it from neutral side, KeSPA had nothing to do with it, they can't invite players that aren't under them and IeSF didn't wanted to do it - with reasons above.
On September 27 2011 03:55 Milkis wrote: it's kind of silly but in the end kespa probably just doesn't have the resources to pour into sc2 and get preliminaries rolling, especially since it's a game they're not in charge of.
yes it's silly but i bet it more has to do with the fact that they have enough trouble covering their bases on the events they officially recognize (esp when one of them needs a lot of attention atm ^^;; to have the resources to pour into sc2
the article is pretty sensationalist though since kespa will probably be covering sc2 in the future and they actually had long talks with blizzard about it. but i guess people are so quick to blame shit and sensationalize anything regarding kespa and assume things just because of things they've overheard and gotten sensationalized based on netizen reactions and assume their outdated information still hold
Also kind of funny people ask "Why is kespa in charge of iesf"... iesf is something kespa made to begin with
If they don't have the funds to do it, one text message to GOM asking them to help arrange and broadcast a qualifier would have fixed it. That is of course an absurd and outrageous idea since it would imply some will to cooperate.
There's so many fucking stupid posts in this thread it's unbelievable. Does anyone read posts before posting their inane bullshit?
On September 27 2011 02:36 shell wrote: lol KeSPA works so hard to be hated by all the foreigners, and lets face it.. THEY DO A GOOD JOB!
First they created a system where there was almost no chance for foreigner participation even tho there is alot of guys that love BW and SC2 outside of korea and could bring alot more exposure and money to their scene.. but they say NO!
Foreigners couldn't partake because they were INFERIOR AT THE GAME. There was nothing stopping anyone from getting involved except simply no one was dedicated as the Koreans. But yeah, clearly it's KeSPA holding back whitey. Foreigner scene was like amateur wheelchair basketball vs an NBA team.
People jumping to blame KeSPA: it's BLIZZARD that shut KeSPA out of SC2. Their decision. Y
how would you react to some one using your product to make money and then cutting you 100% out of it. Blizzard is protecting their property.
How would they react? Well i dunno but they seemed pretty fucking fine about it when they were guests at an early OSL. Funny how they suddenly changed their minds right about SC2 time isn't it. I'm pretty sure they were happy about the 4.5 million copies of SC sold in SK as a result of the eSports hype too. But yes, blame KeSPA the non-profit organization.
On September 27 2011 04:48 xBillehx wrote: All they had to do was suggest it to GOM, they'd be more than welcome to choose a player based on GSL points or hold some sort of quick qualifier. Instead they literally prevent it from happening. It's not their place yet they're standing in the way? hmm.
They're not required to go to any lengths for SC2.
AFAIK They're not required to go to any lengths for FIFA either. Not only are they NOT choosing Korean representatives, they're NOT ALLOWING them.
On September 27 2011 04:54 purgerinho wrote: And just to mention one thing, IeSF is ment to be like FIBA or FIFA, it recognizes associations and GOM is not an association of that kind so KeSPA was (the) only choice in Korea.
I mean, look it from neutral side, KeSPA had nothing to do with it, they can't invite players that aren't under them and IeSF didn't wanted to do it - with reasons above.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe GOM was in charge of Alliance of Valiant Arms, but that didn't stop the choice of a Korean A.V.A. representative.
On September 27 2011 05:17 KevinIX wrote: wtf? I thought Kespa and Blizzard made up.
SC2 is still exclusive to Gretech. SC2 progamers don't and probably can't have progaming licences. But that is Blizzard's choice not KeSPA. If they were allowed to support SC2 when of course they would.
On September 27 2011 04:48 xBillehx wrote: All they had to do was suggest it to GOM, they'd be more than welcome to choose a player based on GSL points or hold some sort of quick qualifier. Instead they literally prevent it from happening. It's not their place yet they're standing in the way? hmm.
They're not required to go to any lengths for SC2.
AFAIK They're not required to go to any lengths for FIFA either. Not only are they NOT choosing Korean representatives, they're NOT ALLOWING them.
Korean FIFA players are under the jurisdiction of Kespa. Korean SC2 players are not.
People over-reacting over a bunch of misinformation.
This reminds me of the time when my little brother yelled "IF I CANT HAVE IT, YOU CANT EITHER!" and spat on my food when I took the last slice of pizza. He learned not to do something like that again after a punch in the face. I hope someone teaches Kespa that.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
...What?
Read the thread!
Community headlines: "Sc2con disbanded + KeSPA doesn't help SC2 =/= Powerplay"
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Honestly this just doesn't matter to me... Just another subpar tournament that will (or at least should) go unnoticed to most starcraft 2 fans. There are so many great tournaments out there which feature the best players in the world, who cares if this IeSF wants to play in the B-league of SC2?
On September 27 2011 05:25 SgtCoDFish wrote: ... really? They put a BW organisation in charge of SC2? Are they mad?
"Yo, is that the Football Association?"
"Yes."
"You're in charge of football/soccer in the UK, right?"
"That is correct"
"Sweet can you pick us a rugby team for this massive tournament that's being held?"
It should either be based on GSL points or on fan votes, surely?
KeSPA isn't BW only.
If anything, it was poor decision by IeSF to let KeSPA handle ALL Korean representatives when they have nothing to do with SC2.
You can't fault KeSPA for their actions. It's a slap in the face, asking them to choose a representative for a game that competes with one they're in charge of.
On September 27 2011 01:04 Dante08 wrote: WTF lol. Held in Korea but no Koreans allowed, great for foreigners but sucks for us spectators. And KeSPA being KeSPA
It's not their fault. They'd recognise it if Blizzard and GOMTV would actually let them have some control over the scene.
If stuff like this is the cost for keeping Kespa out of SC2 then it's a cheap price.
On September 27 2011 04:34 Alabasern wrote: Ah I guess this serves Starcraft II it's due justice for being inferior to Brood War in terms I cannot fully express.
And yet you complain about SC2 posters mocking in BW threads, class act.
On September 27 2011 03:56 l10f wrote: I don't get what's up with all the kespa hate. I agree kespa makes questionable decisions often, but this time I feel like they made the correct decision. IeSF should not have asked kespa to pick Korean reps because kespa is not the group that manages Korean sc2 progamers. That's like asking a softball organization to pick baseball players. I don't wanna get into talking about whether kespa is necessary in sc2 or not but this is not something to blame kespa for.
....They shouldn't have asked, but KESPA shouldn't have fucking accepted if they're not going to do anything...
There's a lot of blind hatred for KeSPA in this thread. It's not their fault they were put in charge of selecting from a pool of players they have no representation of or jurisdiction over.
Well at least Kespa still gives me a good laugh every time I read about them. It's also their tournament so they can do whatever they want. Pure comedy gold though!
On September 27 2011 05:26 Pisko. wrote: When did TL get so filled with anti-BW/Kespa propaganda?
kespa has never been liked on TL, ever.
Correct me if I'm wrong cause I haven't really been following the scene, but wasn't it the other way around? I think gom with blizzard wanted all the rights for sc2 when it first started and even wanted BW. Then there was the whole kespa vs gretech/gom and blizzard. That tension still exist today?
so maybe kespa holds the tournament but not allowing korean sc2 players enter cause they're under GOM?
it isn't actually that hard to understand, IeSF stands for International e-Sports Federation, of which Kespa is a member, so therefore, Kespa runs all the qualifiers in Korea. It isn't a matter of IeSF "choosing" Kespa or anything like that, as i would have to guess all the qualifiers in other countries were run by organizations that are members of IeSF in their own countries, though USA has no IeSF member according to their website so can't say for sure. Kespa is just choosing not to run an sc2 qualifier, for whatever reason
Why would IeSF have KeSPA do the SC2 player selection? WTF? Massive organizational oversight? Oh right KeSPA has no jurisdiction over SC2 players oh fuck we're dumbasses?
On September 27 2011 04:48 xBillehx wrote: All they had to do was suggest it to GOM, they'd be more than welcome to choose a player based on GSL points or hold some sort of quick qualifier. Instead they literally prevent it from happening. It's not their place yet they're standing in the way? hmm.
They're not required to go to any lengths for SC2.
AFAIK They're not required to go to any lengths for FIFA either. Not only are they NOT choosing Korean representatives, they're NOT ALLOWING them.
On September 27 2011 04:54 purgerinho wrote: And just to mention one thing, IeSF is ment to be like FIBA or FIFA, it recognizes associations and GOM is not an association of that kind so KeSPA was (the) only choice in Korea.
I mean, look it from neutral side, KeSPA had nothing to do with it, they can't invite players that aren't under them and IeSF didn't wanted to do it - with reasons above.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe GOM was in charge of Alliance of Valiant Arms, but that didn't stop the choice of a Korean A.V.A. representative.
Considering it's been like 3 pages and nobody has said otherwise.....I'm pretty curious.
To be honest, I don't know who to be pissed at. The whole situation pretty much sucks. Personally, I think that IeSF should give the rights to pick a player to Gom as opposed to Kespa. As they are the current holders of the GSL, they should be able to make the best decision on who should be the representative.
On September 27 2011 05:39 sdk890 wrote: it isn't actually that hard to understand, IeSF stands for International e-Sports Federation, of which Kespa is a member, so therefore, Kespa runs all the qualifiers in Korea. It isn't a matter of IeSF "choosing" Kespa or anything like that, as i would have to guess all the qualifiers in other countries were run by organizations that are members of IeSF in their own countries, though USA has no IeSF member according to their website so can't say for sure. Kespa is just choosing not to run an sc2 qualifier, for whatever reason
Kespa not choosing to run a SC2 qualifier would be because they aren't in charge or part of SC2.
Edit:
To add, Kespa is in charge of Pro-gamers for all the other games listed in IeSF - except SC2, so they held no qualifiers or a Rep, because why/how the fuck would they?
On September 27 2011 04:48 xBillehx wrote: All they had to do was suggest it to GOM, they'd be more than welcome to choose a player based on GSL points or hold some sort of quick qualifier. Instead they literally prevent it from happening. It's not their place yet they're standing in the way? hmm.
They're not required to go to any lengths for SC2.
AFAIK They're not required to go to any lengths for FIFA either. Not only are they NOT choosing Korean representatives, they're NOT ALLOWING them.
On September 27 2011 04:54 purgerinho wrote: And just to mention one thing, IeSF is ment to be like FIBA or FIFA, it recognizes associations and GOM is not an association of that kind so KeSPA was (the) only choice in Korea.
I mean, look it from neutral side, KeSPA had nothing to do with it, they can't invite players that aren't under them and IeSF didn't wanted to do it - with reasons above.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe GOM was in charge of Alliance of Valiant Arms, but that didn't stop the choice of a Korean A.V.A. representative.
Considering it's been like 3 pages and nobody has said otherwise.....I'm pretty curious.
Kespa probably has jurisdiction, there's a list of licensed A.V.A. players on the Kespa website.
I think it defies expectations for KeSPA to run qualifiers and select players for a game it has no jurisdiction over. People should make sure their blaming the right people here instead of trying to confirm their biases.
On September 27 2011 05:43 VirgilSC2 wrote: Considering it's been like 3 pages and nobody has said otherwise.....I'm pretty curious.
I went ahead and googled this for you and I appears that KeSPA does recognize Alliance of Valiant Arms.
On September 27 2011 05:49 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: To be honest, I don't know who to be pissed at. The whole situation pretty much sucks. Personally, I think that IeSF should give the rights to pick a player to Gom as opposed to Kespa. As they are the current holders of the GSL, they should be able to make the best decision on who should be the representative.
If I understood it correctly, the rights to pick Korean players aren't IeSF's to give, they belong to KeSPA by default. Same goes for the rights to act like a four year old child aswell unfortunately.
why only the bad guys(politicians or some power having parties or like kespa(no offence) can easily say something and make others look bad, rude, etc..but simple people cannot just say something in such way that all people would aknowledge how bad kespa and what kespa itself would aknowledge that everyone is dissapointed that they ignore starctaft2
maybe im exagerating but i think there is some truth in it?
How odd is this? This would be like holding Biking in France and not letting French people participate. This is like a national sport for korea. Honestly, how many foreigners will travel all the way to korea just to participate in a foreigner only tournament?
On September 27 2011 05:57 ambient_orange wrote: why only the bad guys(politicians or some power having parties or like kespa(no offence) can easily say something and make others look bad, rude, etc..but simple people cannot just say something in such way that all people would aknowledge how bad kespa and what kespa itself would aknowledge that everyone is dissapointed that they ignore starctaft2
maybe im exagerating but i think there is some truth in it?
On September 27 2011 05:56 CeriseCherries wrote: -.- mm but personally i feel that IeSF isn't getting a lot of love internationally either... both Sheth and IdrA pulled out.... poor IeSF...
Aw that's sad. When is this event? Is IdrA not going to be in Korea before it happens?? Kind of a dick move to pull out if he's going to be in the country anyway.
Especially considering the exposure that IdrA could have brought to an event like this (both in Korea and outside of it).
I get where Kespa is coming from, but it's silly and petty to take that stance and not even approach Gom or Blizzard to arrange the Korean qualifiers. SC2 isn't part of their reach? That's fine, but when you're holding an event which includes SC2, and given the responsibility to choose the players representing your country, at least try and sort some shit out. It's absolutely ridiculous that you're just going to completely ignore the existing scene because they're not 'official' to you. I don't even give a shit if they don't like Gom or Blizzard, but this is a big fuck you to SC2.
Imagine if Fifa and Uefa had a falling out and the former excluded all the European nations from participating in the World Cup because they don't 'recognise them'.
On September 27 2011 05:56 CeriseCherries wrote: -.- mm but personally i feel that IeSF isn't getting a lot of love internationally either... both Sheth and IdrA pulled out.... poor IeSF...
Aw that's sad. When is this event? Is IdrA not going to be in Korea before it happens?? Kind of a dick move to pull out if he's going to be in the country anyway.
Especially considering the exposure that IdrA could have brought to an event like this (both in Korea and outside of it).
Also, wtf is A.V.A.?
I don't know why Sheth withdrew but IdrA was invited to IPL3 which is the same weekend.
On September 27 2011 05:41 Ownos wrote: Why would IeSF have KeSPA do the SC2 player selection? WTF? Massive organizational oversight? Oh right KeSPA has no jurisdiction over SC2 players oh fuck we're dumbasses?
Because KeSPA chooses every other games reps. So its easy for IeSF to give it to KeSPA every year.
but back on topic. with people saying sc2 should be given to KeSPA. You guys don't know how frikin hard it is to get KeSPA players to play outside of KeSPA sactioned events. Which means no more Koreans at MLG or IEM, or anything like that. Look at what they did with gom back during the classic's.
Also there would be no more Korean weekly either.
I was trying to do a foreign vs Korean (bw) showmatch a few months ago for fun. I contacted KeSPA and I got a few responses. But eventually I never recieved responses back. I sent e-mail only for nothing to be sent back. Even with ICCup backing, I was never able to get anything done because KeSPA had basically shut me out of asking. I was told I could not contact teams personally, nor players.
I even went to CJ Entus marketing manager and asked him. He sent an E-mail off to KeSPA encouraging them to allow their players to do this. He was very in favour of this and trying to get KeSPA to expand their borders to promote bw to a foreign audience. KeSPA ignored him and me. Its been 5 months almost. Not a single KeSPA e-mail has entered my mailbox since.
So people saying having KeSPA work on the sc2 scene. it would be a huge boost to the Korean scene. But the Global scene would suffer. Foreigners would have a hella hard time going into Korea to play as well. and Koreans would be banned from joining foreign teams.
On September 27 2011 05:57 ambient_orange wrote: why only the bad guys(politicians or some power having parties or like kespa(no offence) can easily say something and make others look bad, rude, etc..but simple people cannot just say something in such way that all people would aknowledge how bad kespa and what kespa itself would aknowledge that everyone is dissapointed that they ignore starctaft2
maybe im exagerating but i think there is some truth in it?
KeSPA IS NOT ALLOWED TO BE INVOLVED WITH STARCRAFT 2
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
The profound silliness of this whole thread is that Kespa is blamed for not having jurisdiction over SC2, when a year ago people were celebrating that SC2 would be free from the tyranny of Kespa....
What.
Grr Kespa did not select a SC2 rep for IeSF, they are fucking esports durrr. Fuck Kespa!!!
*Ignores the fact that they have no registered SC2 pro, they were specifically ostracized by Blizzard for being involved with SC2*
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
The profound silliness of this whole thread is that Kespa is blamed for not having jurisdiction over SC2, when a year ago people were celebrating that SC2 would be free from the tyranny of Kespa....
What.
Grr Kespa did not select a SC2 rep for IeSF, they are fucking esports durrr. Fuck Kespa!!!
*Ignores the fact that they have no registered SC2 pro, they were specifically ostracized by Blizzard for being involved with SC2*
lol yeah, in the SC2Con thread people were saying that they don't want Kespa involved in SC2 at all. Then the same people come to this thread and moan about how Kespa is not getting involved in SC2.
That's stupid. The idea of 1 player per country will reduce the event interest, but it can be argued since it's supposed to be world championship. But if you follow this logic, there should be 1 Korean player.
Nothing about a french presence either...And who the f is Agh ? Never heard of him :x
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
The profound silliness of this whole thread is that Kespa is blamed for not having jurisdiction over SC2, when a year ago people were celebrating that SC2 would be free from the tyranny of Kespa....
What.
Grr Kespa did not select a SC2 rep for IeSF, they are fucking esports durrr. Fuck Kespa!!!
*Ignores the fact that they have no registered SC2 pro, they were specifically ostracized by Blizzard for being involved with SC2*
lol yeah, in the SC2Con thread people were saying that they don't want Kespa involved in SC2 at all. Then the same people come to this thread and moan about how Kespa is not getting involved in SC2.
You don't have to get involved to send out invites to a SC2 tournament you're already partially organizing, especially when it is your responsibility to do so. If they do not want that responsibilty there are other bodies ready to step up and help out.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You don't even understand what i said so i don't think you understand the situation at all. The only benefit of Blizzard's forced involvement into Korean eSports is the control over gretech and licensing fee's. They put money into it as well of course but that doesn't depend on their involvement and blocking out of the official body of eSports in the country.
As for KeSPA being a detriment, cite your sources prehaps? The only reason BW people even dislike them is referee decisions (which although dumb were simply following the laid out rules). KeSPA is made up by representatives of the various corporations that run the teams, put a ton of money into the game(s) and make the entire scene run, and have given Blizzard countless hours of free publicity by broadcasting it's games, resulting in a large portion of the entire games sales. If that's a detriment then SC2 looks like it could really use a detriment; maybe the Korean players can all get salaries then and not live from prize money.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
The profound silliness of this whole thread is that Kespa is blamed for not having jurisdiction over SC2, when a year ago people were celebrating that SC2 would be free from the tyranny of Kespa....
What.
Grr Kespa did not select a SC2 rep for IeSF, they are fucking esports durrr. Fuck Kespa!!!
*Ignores the fact that they have no registered SC2 pro, they were specifically ostracized by Blizzard for being involved with SC2*
lol yeah, in the SC2Con thread people were saying that they don't want Kespa involved in SC2 at all. Then the same people come to this thread and moan about how Kespa is not getting involved in SC2.
You don't have to get involved to send out invites to a SC2 tournament you're already partially organizing, especially when it is your responsibility to do so. If they do not want that responsibilty there are other bodies ready to step up and help out.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
The profound silliness of this whole thread is that Kespa is blamed for not having jurisdiction over SC2, when a year ago people were celebrating that SC2 would be free from the tyranny of Kespa....
What.
Grr Kespa did not select a SC2 rep for IeSF, they are fucking esports durrr. Fuck Kespa!!!
*Ignores the fact that they have no registered SC2 pro, they were specifically ostracized by Blizzard for being involved with SC2*
lol yeah, in the SC2Con thread people were saying that they don't want Kespa involved in SC2 at all. Then the same people come to this thread and moan about how Kespa is not getting involved in SC2.
You don't have to get involved to send out invites to a SC2 tournament you're already partially organizing, especially when it is your responsibility to do so. If they do not want that responsibilty there are other bodies ready to step up and help out.
So many contradictions in your post.
Go on please,
edit: nvm, yeah there were some contradictions. Still though, they don't have to get involved in Korean SC2 in order to fullfill their responibilities of sending out invites or asking someone else to arrange a qualifier.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You don't even understand what i said so i don't think you understand the situation at all. The only benefit of Blizzard's forced involvement into Korean eSports is the control over gretech and licensing fee's. They put money into it as well of course but that doesn't depend on their involvement and blocking out of the official body of eSports in the country.
As for KeSPA being a detriment, cite your sources prehaps? The only reason BW people even dislike them is referee decisions (which although dumb were simply following the laid out rules). KeSPA is made up by representatives of the various corporations that run the teams, put a ton of money into the game(s) and make the entire scene run, and have given Blizzard countless hours of free publicity by broadcasting it's games, resulting in a large portion of the entire games sales. If that's a detriment then SC2 looks like it could really use a detriment; maybe the Korean players can all get salaries then and not live from prize money.
You cant blame me for your poor communication skills. And no, that isnt the "only reason" why people disliked KeSPA. They were an extremely controlling organization that suffocated broodwar and the only reason broodwar did well is because it basically became part of Korean culture. Saying if KeSPA came into SC2 and all of a sudden they could just hand out salaries to everybody is just stupid posting.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
The profound silliness of this whole thread is that Kespa is blamed for not having jurisdiction over SC2, when a year ago people were celebrating that SC2 would be free from the tyranny of Kespa....
What.
Grr Kespa did not select a SC2 rep for IeSF, they are fucking esports durrr. Fuck Kespa!!!
*Ignores the fact that they have no registered SC2 pro, they were specifically ostracized by Blizzard for being involved with SC2*
lol yeah, in the SC2Con thread people were saying that they don't want Kespa involved in SC2 at all. Then the same people come to this thread and moan about how Kespa is not getting involved in SC2.
You don't have to get involved to send out invites to a SC2 tournament you're already partially organizing, especially when it is your responsibility to do so. If they do not want that responsibilty there are other bodies ready to step up and help out.
So many contradictions in your post.
Hey man! just because they aren't involved doesn't mean they shouldn't be involved and organize a qualifier for a thing they aren't involved in.
Especially for the people that told them not to be involved in the first place, and ran their name in the mud internationally.
What exactly is the relationship between Kespa and IeSF anyhow? Milkis mentioned the former created the latter, but does that mean they have ownership? Did IeSF become independent and now is only working with Kespa as a partner? If Kespa has influence with them, I wonder why they picked SC2 in the first place.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
The profound silliness of this whole thread is that Kespa is blamed for not having jurisdiction over SC2, when a year ago people were celebrating that SC2 would be free from the tyranny of Kespa....
What.
Grr Kespa did not select a SC2 rep for IeSF, they are fucking esports durrr. Fuck Kespa!!!
*Ignores the fact that they have no registered SC2 pro, they were specifically ostracized by Blizzard for being involved with SC2*
lol yeah, in the SC2Con thread people were saying that they don't want Kespa involved in SC2 at all. Then the same people come to this thread and moan about how Kespa is not getting involved in SC2.
You don't have to get involved to send out invites to a SC2 tournament you're already partially organizing, especially when it is your responsibility to do so. If they do not want that responsibilty there are other bodies ready to step up and help out.
So many contradictions in your post.
Hey man! just because they aren't involved doesn't mean they shouldn't be involved and organize a qualifier for a thing they aren't involved in.
Especially for the people that told them not to be involved in the first place, and ran their name in the mud internationally.
They are tasked by IeSF to chose players for their tournament. Are you saying IeSF ran their name in the mud? You make little sense.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You don't even understand what i said so i don't think you understand the situation at all. The only benefit of Blizzard's forced involvement into Korean eSports is the control over gretech and licensing fee's. They put money into it as well of course but that doesn't depend on their involvement and blocking out of the official body of eSports in the country.
As for KeSPA being a detriment, cite your sources prehaps? The only reason BW people even dislike them is referee decisions (which although dumb were simply following the laid out rules). KeSPA is made up by representatives of the various corporations that run the teams, put a ton of money into the game(s) and make the entire scene run, and have given Blizzard countless hours of free publicity by broadcasting it's games, resulting in a large portion of the entire games sales. If that's a detriment then SC2 looks like it could really use a detriment; maybe the Korean players can all get salaries then and not live from prize money.
You cant blame me for your poor communication skills. And no, that isnt the "only reason" why people disliked KeSPA. They were an extremely controlling organization that suffocated broodwar and the only reason broodwar did well is because it basically became part of Korean culture. Saying if KeSPA came into SC2 and all of a sudden they could just hand out salaries to everybody is just stupid posting.
I don't think he had any trouble with the communication, it is pretty clear what he said. Sadly, you carry the same mindset a lot of people on TL have towards KeSPA which is completely biased and completely based on what has transpired over the last few years. TBH, although KeSPA gets a ton of flak, they have helped to create and legitimize SC in Korea. Sure, SC would probably still be popular in SK but it wouldn't have the level of acceptance it has now. SC really isn't all that much a part of Korean culture as people really want to think it is. Its just bigger there than anywhere else but hardly a staple. KeSPA could probably just step in and hand out salaries to the top players. It is just the collection of representatives from all the major corporations that are paying SC players right now. I think you really should try to learn a little more about Korean culture and the structure of KeSPA before you post more. o.0
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
this tournament is a failure in itself already. the spanish representative "deathfate" cheated his way into the tournament, taking a "defwin" against LoLvsxD against the advice of his team and the whole community, just because lola could not play since he had to travel to a LAN at the time the match was supposed to be played, and they even met at the LAN later. pathetic.
Well this is pretty messed up... The tournament's gonna be a joke. No one's gonna attend if it's being held in Korea, without Korean players... especially since SC2 is still relatively small and growing.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
its a pity that this had to happen but i guess the organizers are fine with there being no Korean sc2 representative. It seems no one here knows concretely to what extent KeSPA has control over picking sc2 players and we may never know exactly why they chose this path. it'd be interesting to see what korean players/fan reaction is to this since i think they may have a better understanding of the process
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
PL/OSL/MSL are professional leagues, and players are paid a salary exactly for the purpose of playing in those 3 leagues
People bitch about Pro-players being treated as slaves and then want more leagues out of them?
Those organizations dont control the salary, the coaches and managers of each team do. And no, it's because KeSPA and Gom couldn't come to an agreement. And I never said they were treated as slaves. I think Im done posting in this thread because it seems that the people defending KeSPA because its really the only thing keeping BW alive and therefore it shouldn't receive any criticism for its "valiant" efforts. Therefore any thing negative I say about KeSPA was either wrong (because KeSPA told you different) or doesnt matter because "its done more good then bad" Unfortunately keeping BW alive doesn't mean denying SC2, even though it seems that you guys think it's necessary to only have one or the other.
On September 27 2011 03:32 dignitasNewmaN wrote: And people say they want a global Kespa..
Not KeSPA specifically, just someone that can regulate teams and their players to eliminate contract bullshit, have standard competitive maps so there isn't 10 different versions, etc.
So would watching this be the equivalent of watching the Special Olympics since there are no Korean players. Don't get me wrong I love watching foreigners, but Koreans simply dominate and Korean Terrans dominate even more.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
PL/OSL/MSL are professional leagues, and players are paid a salary exactly for the purpose of playing in those 3 leagues
People bitch about Pro-players being treated as slaves and then want more leagues out of them?
Those organizations dont control the salary, the coaches and managers of each team do. And no, it's because KeSPA and Gom couldn't come to an agreement. And I never said they were treated as slaves. I think Im done posting in this thread because it seems that the people defending KeSPA because its really the only thing keeping BW alive and therefore it shouldn't receive any criticism for its "valiant" efforts. Therefore any thing negative I say about KeSPA was either wrong (because KeSPA told you different) or doesnt matter because "its done more good then bad" Unfortunately keeping BW alive doesn't mean denying SC2, even though it seems that you guys think it's necessary to only have one or the other.
Teams pulled out gradually in the Gom tournament so you are wrong. It was widely accepted that it was too much workload, Gom was not even practiced for it was a total afterthought. The decision was a correct one. Now the MSL is potentially gone NOW would be the time for another tournament. Not forcing one into an already extremely tough schedule. Anyone who actually followed BW (not you obviously) could tell you that it was inevitable.
KeSPA didn't tell anyone anything really did they? I don't even remember any particular press release from them. It's you who sounds like they have been spoonfed an opinion without any real insight or thought on the situation. You signed up here in 2011 and you are trying to tell us about history and what did or did not happen. But please, keep trying to revise history to fit your pre-existing idea. The only people denying SC2 from expansion in Korea is Blizzard. They are the ones forcing exclusivity deals and arguably getting into an area they have no need to be in. KeSPA if actually allowed would immediately include SC2. Yet you idiots keep posting the same stupid bullshit that they are ignoring it.
Also coaches and managers of the teams can't just pull money out of their sponsors pockets you realize. BW has perfectly fine salaries for it's niche, the best players are obviously paid more. If posting on forums had a salary, i'd be paid obviously a shitload more than you because you are spouting nonsense. You are the B-team poster with no salary for posting such uninformed drivel.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
PL/OSL/MSL are professional leagues, and players are paid a salary exactly for the purpose of playing in those 3 leagues
People bitch about Pro-players being treated as slaves and then want more leagues out of them?
Those organizations dont control the salary, the coaches and managers of each team do. And no, it's because KeSPA and Gom couldn't come to an agreement. And I never said they were treated as slaves. I think Im done posting in this thread because it seems that the people defending KeSPA because its really the only thing keeping BW alive and therefore it shouldn't receive any criticism for its "valiant" efforts. Therefore any thing negative I say about KeSPA was either wrong (because KeSPA told you different) or doesnt matter because "its done more good then bad" Unfortunately keeping BW alive doesn't mean denying SC2, even though it seems that you guys think it's necessary to only have one or the other.
Coaches and manages of each team control the salaries in BW as well? Only thing Kespa regulated was the Free Agent rules to prevent 1 rich team from monopolizing all the good players... much like salary caps in NFL/NHL/NBA....
Also, people are posting in defence of Kespa mainly because 90% of the people don't even have a fucking clue what Kespa is/does and why E-sports (or any competition at a pro level) requires a professional and organized body.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
PL/OSL/MSL are professional leagues, and players are paid a salary exactly for the purpose of playing in those 3 leagues
People bitch about Pro-players being treated as slaves and then want more leagues out of them?
Those organizations dont control the salary, the coaches and managers of each team do. And no, it's because KeSPA and Gom couldn't come to an agreement. And I never said they were treated as slaves. I think Im done posting in this thread because it seems that the people defending KeSPA because its really the only thing keeping BW alive and therefore it shouldn't receive any criticism for its "valiant" efforts. Therefore any thing negative I say about KeSPA was either wrong (because KeSPA told you different) or doesnt matter because "its done more good then bad" Unfortunately keeping BW alive doesn't mean denying SC2, even though it seems that you guys think it's necessary to only have one or the other.
Teams pulled out gradually in the Gom tournament so you are wrong. It was widely accepted that it was too much workload, Gom was not even practiced for it was a total afterthought. The decision was a correct one. Now the MSL is potentially gone NOW would be the time for another tournament. Not forcing one into an already extremely tough schedule. Anyone who actually followed BW (not you obviously) could tell you that it was inevitable.
KeSPA didn't tell anyone anything really did they? I don't even remember any particular press release from them. It's you who sounds like they have been spoonfed an opinion without any real insight or thought on the situation. You signed up here in 2011 and you are trying to tell us about history and what did or did not happen. But please, keep trying to revise history to fit your pre-existing idea. The only people denying SC2 from expansion in Korea is Blizzard. They are the ones forcing exclusivity deals and arguably getting into an area they have no need to be in. KeSPA if actually allowed would immediately include SC2. Yet you idiots keep posting the same stupid bullshit that they are ignoring it.
Also coaches and managers of the teams can't just pull money out of their sponsors pockets you realize. BW has perfectly fine salaries for it's niche, the best players are obviously paid more. If posting on forums had a salary, i'd be paid obviously a shitload more than you because you are spouting nonsense. You are the B-team poster with no salary for posting such uninformed drivel.
So now its a requirement to have been signed up on teamliquid before a certain date? KeSPA controlled Broodwar and were extremely influential on what was said. Look what happened to Nada when he moved to SC2. Saying something bad against KeSPA was career suicide as they could just prevent you from playing. I think you are the one who was spoon fed. Also calling me an idiot does not mean you're right, just in case you thought that was actually a valid point. And that's a terrible analogy btw. Because posting isnt competitive, it's to share ideas. And apparently when someone doesnt agree with yours, its ok to become angry and use personal attacks.
What happened to NaDa? He's done fine in SC2? Or did i miss the incidents were KeSPA agents stalked his every move and threatened to kill his family. When he was under contract, no of course he could not play SC2 (officially at least). He's under contract with a Brood War team, so yeah they can prevent him from playing. Then once he was out he can do whatever the fuck he likes. Where's the thing where we should 'look what happened'. NaDa had a great salary for many years even after his actual Starleague wins, by all means had a great career. So yeah, excellent example against KeSPA there: a player who did exceedingly well without the system.
And nah i'm angry it's always funny seeing SC2 people fall over themselves to see who can make the most uninformed comments.
On September 27 2011 07:24 infinity2k9 wrote: What happened to NaDa? He's done fine in SC2? Or did i miss the incidents were KeSPA agents stalked his every move and threatened to kill his family. When he was under contract, no of course he could not play SC2 (officially at least). He's under contract with a Brood War team, so yeah they can prevent him from playing. Then once he was out he can do whatever the fuck he likes. Where's the thing where we should 'look what happened'. NaDa had a great salary for many years even after his actual Starleague wins, by all means had a great career. So yeah, excellent example against KeSPA there: a player who did exceedingly well without the system.
he originally had all his records erased in the official kepsa logs iirc. they restored them after fans responded with outrage.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
PL/OSL/MSL are professional leagues, and players are paid a salary exactly for the purpose of playing in those 3 leagues
People bitch about Pro-players being treated as slaves and then want more leagues out of them?
Those organizations dont control the salary, the coaches and managers of each team do. And no, it's because KeSPA and Gom couldn't come to an agreement. And I never said they were treated as slaves. I think Im done posting in this thread because it seems that the people defending KeSPA because its really the only thing keeping BW alive and therefore it shouldn't receive any criticism for its "valiant" efforts. Therefore any thing negative I say about KeSPA was either wrong (because KeSPA told you different) or doesnt matter because "its done more good then bad" Unfortunately keeping BW alive doesn't mean denying SC2, even though it seems that you guys think it's necessary to only have one or the other.
Teams pulled out gradually in the Gom tournament so you are wrong. It was widely accepted that it was too much workload, Gom was not even practiced for it was a total afterthought. The decision was a correct one. Now the MSL is potentially gone NOW would be the time for another tournament. Not forcing one into an already extremely tough schedule. Anyone who actually followed BW (not you obviously) could tell you that it was inevitable.
KeSPA didn't tell anyone anything really did they? I don't even remember any particular press release from them. It's you who sounds like they have been spoonfed an opinion without any real insight or thought on the situation. You signed up here in 2011 and you are trying to tell us about history and what did or did not happen. But please, keep trying to revise history to fit your pre-existing idea. The only people denying SC2 from expansion in Korea is Blizzard. They are the ones forcing exclusivity deals and arguably getting into an area they have no need to be in. KeSPA if actually allowed would immediately include SC2. Yet you idiots keep posting the same stupid bullshit that they are ignoring it.
Also coaches and managers of the teams can't just pull money out of their sponsors pockets you realize. BW has perfectly fine salaries for it's niche, the best players are obviously paid more. If posting on forums had a salary, i'd be paid obviously a shitload more than you because you are spouting nonsense. You are the B-team poster with no salary for posting such uninformed drivel.
So now its a requirement to have been signed up on teamliquid before a certain date? KeSPA controlled Broodwar and were extremely influential on what was said. Look what happened to Nada when he moved to SC2. Saying something bad against KeSPA was career suicide as they could just prevent you from playing. I think you are the one who was spoon fed. Also calling me an idiot does not mean you're right, just in case you thought that was actually a valid point. And that's a terrible analogy btw. Because posting isnt competitive, it's to share ideas. And apparently when someone doesnt agree with yours, its ok to become angry and use personal attacks.
CJ, a member of Kespa board, let idra practice SC2 in their teamhouse, while they supplied all living expenses, despite being under contract as a BW B-teamer. So, no, Kespa did not arbitrarily decide to hate SC2. They did however pull all support once blizzard gave exclusive deal to GOM and made it clear they did not want Kespa involved in SC2. Therefore, Kespa did not field a qualifer for IeSF because they have zero responsibility in helping SC2 succeed.
On September 27 2011 07:24 infinity2k9 wrote: What happened to NaDa? He's done fine in SC2? Or did i miss the incidents were KeSPA agents stalked his every move and threatened to kill his family. When he was under contract, no of course he could not play SC2 (officially at least). He's under contract with a Brood War team, so yeah they can prevent him from playing. Then once he was out he can do whatever the fuck he likes. Where's the thing where we should 'look what happened'. NaDa had a great salary for many years even after his actual Starleague wins, by all means had a great career. So yeah, excellent example against KeSPA there: a player who did exceedingly well without the system.
he originally had all his records erased in the official kepsa logs iirc. they restored them after fans responded with outrage.
They stated it was a computer error and restored within couple days. Though I guess you can read that as "honest mistake" or "Kespa hates SC2!!!" Although Kespa did nothing on July/Boxer's profile on their website soooo I'd lean towards the former and not the latter.
On September 27 2011 07:24 infinity2k9 wrote: What happened to NaDa? He's done fine in SC2? Or did i miss the incidents were KeSPA agents stalked his every move and threatened to kill his family. When he was under contract, no of course he could not play SC2 (officially at least). He's under contract with a Brood War team, so yeah they can prevent him from playing. Then once he was out he can do whatever the fuck he likes. Where's the thing where we should 'look what happened'. NaDa had a great salary for many years even after his actual Starleague wins, by all means had a great career. So yeah, excellent example against KeSPA there: a player who did exceedingly well without the system.
And nah i'm angry it's always funny seeing SC2 people fall over themselves to see who can make the most uninformed comments.
All his records were erased. Like being in the top 30 for 87 months. This proves that, the only point you responded to, you had no knowledge on even though you're obviously a "KeSPA historian and expert". And dont make this a "SC2 vs Broodwar" debate.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
PL/OSL/MSL are professional leagues, and players are paid a salary exactly for the purpose of playing in those 3 leagues
People bitch about Pro-players being treated as slaves and then want more leagues out of them?
Those organizations dont control the salary, the coaches and managers of each team do. And no, it's because KeSPA and Gom couldn't come to an agreement. And I never said they were treated as slaves. I think Im done posting in this thread because it seems that the people defending KeSPA because its really the only thing keeping BW alive and therefore it shouldn't receive any criticism for its "valiant" efforts. Therefore any thing negative I say about KeSPA was either wrong (because KeSPA told you different) or doesnt matter because "its done more good then bad" Unfortunately keeping BW alive doesn't mean denying SC2, even though it seems that you guys think it's necessary to only have one or the other.
Teams pulled out gradually in the Gom tournament so you are wrong. It was widely accepted that it was too much workload, Gom was not even practiced for it was a total afterthought. The decision was a correct one. Now the MSL is potentially gone NOW would be the time for another tournament. Not forcing one into an already extremely tough schedule. Anyone who actually followed BW (not you obviously) could tell you that it was inevitable.
KeSPA didn't tell anyone anything really did they? I don't even remember any particular press release from them. It's you who sounds like they have been spoonfed an opinion without any real insight or thought on the situation. You signed up here in 2011 and you are trying to tell us about history and what did or did not happen. But please, keep trying to revise history to fit your pre-existing idea. The only people denying SC2 from expansion in Korea is Blizzard. They are the ones forcing exclusivity deals and arguably getting into an area they have no need to be in. KeSPA if actually allowed would immediately include SC2. Yet you idiots keep posting the same stupid bullshit that they are ignoring it.
Also coaches and managers of the teams can't just pull money out of their sponsors pockets you realize. BW has perfectly fine salaries for it's niche, the best players are obviously paid more. If posting on forums had a salary, i'd be paid obviously a shitload more than you because you are spouting nonsense. You are the B-team poster with no salary for posting such uninformed drivel.
So now its a requirement to have been signed up on teamliquid before a certain date? KeSPA controlled Broodwar and were extremely influential on what was said. Look what happened to Nada when he moved to SC2. Saying something bad against KeSPA was career suicide as they could just prevent you from playing. I think you are the one who was spoon fed. Also calling me an idiot does not mean you're right, just in case you thought that was actually a valid point. And that's a terrible analogy btw. Because posting isnt competitive, it's to share ideas. And apparently when someone doesnt agree with yours, its ok to become angry and use personal attacks.
CJ, a member of Kespa board, let idra practice SC2 in their teamhouse, while they supplied all living expenses, despite being under contract as a BW B-teamer. So, no, Kespa did not arbitrarily decide to hate SC2. They did however pull all support once blizzard gave exclusive deal to GOM and made it clear they did not want Kespa involved in SC2. Therefore, Kespa did not field a qualifer for IeSF because they have zero responsibility in helping SC2 succeed.
Is this really that difficult to understand.
I understand that perfectly and said nothing about any of that not being true. Even with you saying that I dont understand what that proves.
Well, that's really disappointing. And KeSPA is the official Korean member of the IeSF, so that will probably be the same next year, if IeSF even holds a SC2 competition.
KESPA Ruining eSports day by day... eSports should be about TOP PLAYERS competing against each other... not some BULLSHIT like Kespa acting like they got all control and saying NO SC2 we got no rights! -_-
The record erasing thing was just some kind of error (something to do with setting a player to retired i guess). KeSPA themselves released a statement saying NaDa was retiring, amicably it seems, and it did not say they was deleting records. Why would they even when other players such as July and Boxer had switched already and they hadn't done anything of the sort? NaDa's contract was up, he switched games that was it. They deleted Saviors records, you really think they would hold NaDa to the same regard while releasing a press release neutral of any bias against him or anything of the sort.
But whatever any pointless thing you want to bring up to try and prove.. whatever it is you are trying to prove. The original statement was that KeSPA is bad for BW, and now it's somehow come to this as an example? Consider me unconvinced. Referee decisions is really the only thing people have against them, and possibly the free agent rule. The free agent rule has it's fairly obvious reasons for it's existence though.
On September 27 2011 07:44 ShootingStars wrote: KESPA Ruining eSports day by day... eSports should be about TOP PLAYERS competing against each other... not some BULLSHIT like Kespa acting like they got all control and saying NO SC2 we got no rights! -_-
It's actually Kespa having no control over SC2, and not doing anything because they have no control of SC2.
Which, BTW is what most people wanted so not sure why people are angry.
only 1/2 the players on the list are even "knowns"
As people have said, they're mostly known players, albeit I don't think anyone would say that's a stellar lineup.
Maybe to people who watch the several hundred EU small tourneys like craftcups, but for people who watch major tourneys, they are new.
Not really, I only watch major tourneys and I know most names on the list. Some of the ones that people might be less familiar with are Agh: Been around for a while, pops up in MLG every now and then.especially. Softball: Made it into one of the first 3 GSLs, and now is in the NASL Osho: Qualified through BYOC for Dreamhack summer. Ciara: Got Crushed by MC in the RO32 of the TSL3 Happy: Star of this youtube video
There's still about four names that I haven't heard of and that most people haven't heard of but it's not half the field.
Why not just send Flash and have him win the tournament without any practice. Thatll just prove that BW takes more skill than sc2, and itll give their BW player some exposure. Of course i can see the problem in having Flash play sc2, but imagine the numbers they could point to in negotiations with blizzard after 200,000 people worldwide watch Flash play sc2.
only 1/2 the players on the list are even "knowns"
As people have said, they're mostly known players, albeit I don't think anyone would say that's a stellar lineup.
Maybe to people who watch the several hundred EU small tourneys like craftcups, but for people who watch major tourneys, they are new.
Not really, I only watch major tourneys and I know most names on the list. Some of the ones that people might be less familiar with are Agh: Been around for a while, pops up in MLG every now and then.especially. Softball: Made it into one of the first 3 GSLs, and now is in the NASL Osho: Qualified through BYOC for Dreamhack summer. Ciara: Got Crushed by MC in the RO32 of the TSL3 Happy: Star of this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA
There's still about four names that I haven't heard of and that most people haven't heard of but it's not half the field.
That marine micro video might very well be the most over hyped and over rated thing out there. The use of the marines there is so inefficient compared to games you see almost weekly in tournaments. That video might be up there with artosis/Clide in terms of over hype.
On September 27 2011 07:50 mango_destroyer wrote: There is nothing more irritating than people who obviously never really followed BW, commenting on Kespa.
KeSPA so evil! ruining SC!! blah blah blah!
lol? you do realize that the korean sc2 scene is also unhappy about this? only a select few "like" what kespa did. Most people agree that this is a sad move.
kespa did some great stuff, awesome stuff, but we are not talking about what kespa has done in the years past, we are talking about this particular incident. and it just happens that this incident is just ironic and ill conceived.
On September 27 2011 07:50 mango_destroyer wrote: There is nothing more irritating than people who obviously never really followed BW, commenting on Kespa.
KeSPA so evil! ruining SC!! blah blah blah!
So KeSPA isn't ruining Korean SC2 by acting selfishly against its country's ESPORT interests? KeSPA is still butthurt that their less than diplomatic way of dealing with Blizzard has led to GOMTV being the organisation behind Korean SC2.
On September 27 2011 08:22 Sukari wrote: Kind of feels like KeSPA is just BM'ing the SC2 community / progamers because they're still holding tightly onto BW.. -shrug-
They aren't holding tightly onto BW. This is nothing to do with BW and everything to do with KeSPA not wanting to further the interests of GOMTV or any other organisation that is not itself, even if it is a dick move against their own country.
only 1/2 the players on the list are even "knowns"
As people have said, they're mostly known players, albeit I don't think anyone would say that's a stellar lineup.
Maybe to people who watch the several hundred EU small tourneys like craftcups, but for people who watch major tourneys, they are new.
Not really, I only watch major tourneys and I know most names on the list. Some of the ones that people might be less familiar with are Agh: Been around for a while, pops up in MLG every now and then.especially. Softball: Made it into one of the first 3 GSLs, and now is in the NASL Osho: Qualified through BYOC for Dreamhack summer. Ciara: Got Crushed by MC in the RO32 of the TSL3 Happy: Star of this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA
There's still about four names that I haven't heard of and that most people haven't heard of but it's not half the field.
Softball never made it to the GSL3 open season. the Three taiwan players went there through blizzard tournament only Sen qualified. Softball was close to qualifying lost in the final round.
Can't really blame kespa, they have nothing to do with SC2 anyways and people would probably shit on them anyways if they tried to choose players. Blame IeSF for letting KeSPA do the choosing - what's up with that, they should know that KeSPA has nothing to do with SC2 and let gom handle it or do it themselves.
Sounds like this is more of Blizzard's fault for giving GOMTV sole control over SC2 in Korea, and so KeSPA isn't obligated in any way to hold any SC2 events. Much like how GOMTV isn't obligated to cast BW tournaments, and don't.
On September 27 2011 08:34 Lorizean wrote: Can't really blame kespa, they have nothing to do with SC2 anyways and people would probably shit on them anyways if they tried to choose players. Blame IeSF for letting KeSPA do the choosing - what's up with that, they should know that KeSPA has nothing to do with SC2 and let gom handle it or do it themselves.
Read Milkis' post in this thread. He says Kespa created IeSF. I'm not sure exactly what their relationship is, but they're clearly working closely together. Which begs the question why choose SC2 in the first place? Hmmmmmm
On September 27 2011 04:30 Datum wrote: Wow, I really don't get the anger coming from this article. From the point of view of the people running the tournament, of course I'd be angry. But from KeSPA's point of view: why spend money on supporting SC2 for the sake of a small tournament that isn't going to attract many viewers anyway?
Go ahead and disagree with KeSPA. That's fine. But the anger coming through in this article is unnecessary and counterproductive.
How much extra money does it take to support the game by offering invites to players locally? Nothing. It's KeSPA blocking SC2 in Korea because it fears Brood War is starting to fade. SC2 is going to be in the tournament regardless, KeSPA is just blocking Korean players from playing in the tournament. It's completely silly, that's where the anger is coming from.
That or it knows SC2 is just a small niche market in Korea and BW is doing just fine, cause it is. Fabulous even.
I guess you haven't read the BW forums lately? Teams are shutting down left and right. Leagues are closing up shop. TV stations will be ending their mainstream coverage soon.
BW is struggling to exist as an E-Sport. It's not thriving.
Teams are shutting down and leaving esports as a whole not only esports ( so its not good for SC2) MSL gone because MBC is pulling out of esports ( again also not good for SC2) Its not like they close the BW stuff and go on a different game...
so yeah its not BW that struggling its the whole Esports in korea.
I don't get how something like this is even possible. How does the meeting where people come to this conclusion look like? Do the people that organize this know that korea means for starcraft? Seriously, why would you do this?
Why is Kespa in charge of SC2.....They are not recognized as they said, should've gone through GOMTV since they are closest thing to Korean organization for SC2. KeSPA should have given authority on this matter to GOM regarding SC2 matters, this is immature and unnecessary
On September 27 2011 08:49 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Why is Kespa in charge of SC2.....They are not recognized as they said, should've gone through GOMTV since they are closest thing to Korean organization for SC2. KeSPA should have given authority on this matter to GOM regarding SC2 matters, this is immature and unnecessary
Can you not read? Sc2 has nothing to do with kespa so they wont bother to find players for the tournament.. which is held in korea. It is just them being business and not wanting to commit any resources to sc2.
IeSF is more about global/international eSports then it is about Korean eSports. IeSF is partners with KeSPA so KeSPA would be the national organizers for IeSF, hence the reason they are responsible for picking the Korean representatives (all of them, including SC2). Because SC2 is not under the umbrella/jurisdiction of KeSPA, KeSPA has no real control over it. Also, people were gonna shit on KeSPA one way or another.
I think it wasn't feasible for KeSPA to run a qualifiers. For many reasons
a) I feel like they're still on bad terms with GOM. Whether this is just a grudge or not, the working relationship between the two is probably not good, which means that working together trying to run a qualifiers/etc. would probably not work out well.
b) Logistically impossible. Once again, let's look at GOM for a second. The GSL/GSTL schedule runs M-F. Leaving Saturday and Sunday, but now we have WCG Qualifiers going on during the weekend. So when exactly can KeSPA run the qualifiers? If they pick one day, and players can't arrive, people would proceed to shit on KeSPA for not picking a better day. In addition, similar to the OGN-NesTea computer issue, I don't think they have the facilities/computers to effectively run a SC2 qualifier. This isn't BW where they plan/run the schedule so they can tell players to show up on certain days.
c) KeSPA cannot broadcast SC2 in Korea (without GOM's permission), simple as that.
On September 27 2011 01:04 Dante08 wrote: WTF lol. Held in Korea but no Koreans allowed, great for foreigners but sucks for us spectators. And KeSPA being KeSPA
It's not their fault. They'd recognise it if Blizzard and GOMTV would actually let them have some control over the scene.
If stuff like this is the cost for keeping Kespa out of SC2 then it's a cheap price.
On September 27 2011 04:34 Alabasern wrote: Ah I guess this serves Starcraft II it's due justice for being inferior to Brood War in terms I cannot fully express.
And yet you complain about SC2 posters mocking in BW threads, class act.
I believe I said I understand why BW veterans mock the flood of SC2 newcomers onto TL.
Starcraft II how I love thee? More often Brood War does prove more exciting as an observer to me.
On September 27 2011 03:55 Milkis wrote: it's kind of silly but in the end kespa probably just doesn't have the resources to pour into sc2 and get preliminaries rolling, especially since it's a game they're not in charge of.
yes it's silly but i bet it more has to do with the fact that they have enough trouble covering their bases on the events they officially recognize (esp when one of them needs a lot of attention atm ^^;; to have the resources to pour into sc2
the article is pretty sensationalist though since kespa will probably be covering sc2 in the future and they actually had long talks with blizzard about it. but i guess people are so quick to blame shit and sensationalize anything regarding kespa and assume things just because of things they've overheard and gotten sensationalized based on netizen reactions and assume their outdated information still hold
Also kind of funny people ask "Why is kespa in charge of iesf"... iesf is something kespa made to begin with
Couldn't they just outsource that stuff?
They could make it themselves, they could outsource it, they could renege/sell the rights to choose... but sending a Korean SC2 player to IesF would promote SC2 in Korea and be good for the scene.
Lol kespa for the win. As with my others I wonder why (if kespa was involved) did they even choose sc2 over BW? Seems like they are taking a dump on the korean sc2 players IMHO...
On September 27 2011 09:41 silverstyle wrote: Lol kespa for the win. As with my others I wonder why (if kespa was involved) did they even choose sc2 over BW? Seems like they are taking a dump on the korean sc2 players IMHO...
My thoughts exactly. If they didn't recognize SC2 why include it in the event? >.<
makes sense because KeSPA hasn't been involved with SC2 at all. Why wouldn't IeSF go to GOM? Clearly GSL is the tournament in korea so it would only make sense to choose a representative who has the highest points in GSL.
I don't know all the details but if KeSPA HAD to be involved then why wouldn't they choose BW for their game instead of SC2? None of this makes much sense except that KeSPA is trying to hurt the SC2 community on purpose to promote BW, which would be the stupidest thing they could do.
On September 27 2011 10:00 emc wrote: makes sense because KeSPA hasn't been involved with SC2 at all. Why wouldn't IeSF go to GOM? Clearly GSL is the tournament in korea so it would only make sense to choose a representative who has the highest points in GSL.
I don't know all the details but if KeSPA HAD to be involved then why wouldn't they choose BW for their game instead of SC2? None of this makes much sense except that KeSPA is trying to hurt the SC2 community on purpose to promote BW, which would be the stupidest thing they could do.
Cause there are 4 games, and almost every competitive game has registered pros under Kespa (including the 3 other games hosted in IeSF, except SC2) So its obvious why IeSF went to Kespa to pick its Rep for this event.
On September 27 2011 10:00 emc wrote: makes sense because KeSPA hasn't been involved with SC2 at all. Why wouldn't IeSF go to GOM? Clearly GSL is the tournament in korea so it would only make sense to choose a representative who has the highest points in GSL.
I don't know all the details but if KeSPA HAD to be involved then why wouldn't they choose BW for their game instead of SC2? None of this makes much sense except that KeSPA is trying to hurt the SC2 community on purpose to promote BW, which would be the stupidest thing they could do.
If they were trying to hurt SC2 on purpose and promote BW why wouldn't they have chosen BW? IeSF is about global/international eSports, and IeSF/KeSPA know that BW is a dead game (player-wise) outside of Korea and globally SC2 is the game to play. As previously mentioned, IeSF was created/is partnered with KeSPA.
Looks like Grubby will have a chance to take down his first championship!
I think Sjow/Happy are favored though.
Even though the tournament is a joke, the prize pool is quite large, $15k for first place is huge for a tournament that will be well below the skill level of most MLGs.
On September 27 2011 10:00 emc wrote: makes sense because KeSPA hasn't been involved with SC2 at all. Why wouldn't IeSF go to GOM? Clearly GSL is the tournament in korea so it would only make sense to choose a representative who has the highest points in GSL.
I don't know all the details but if KeSPA HAD to be involved then why wouldn't they choose BW for their game instead of SC2? None of this makes much sense except that KeSPA is trying to hurt the SC2 community on purpose to promote BW, which would be the stupidest thing they could do.
Cause there are 4 games, and almost every competitive game has registered pros under Kespa (including the 3 other games hosted in IeSF, except SC2) So its obvious why IeSF went to Kespa to pick its Rep for this event.
kespa kind of funds iesf and founded iesf, are you surprised?
On September 27 2011 10:00 emc wrote: makes sense because KeSPA hasn't been involved with SC2 at all. Why wouldn't IeSF go to GOM? Clearly GSL is the tournament in korea so it would only make sense to choose a representative who has the highest points in GSL.
I don't know all the details but if KeSPA HAD to be involved then why wouldn't they choose BW for their game instead of SC2? None of this makes much sense except that KeSPA is trying to hurt the SC2 community on purpose to promote BW, which would be the stupidest thing they could do.
Cause there are 4 games, and almost every competitive game has registered pros under Kespa (including the 3 other games hosted in IeSF, except SC2) So its obvious why IeSF went to Kespa to pick its Rep for this event.
kespa kind of funds iesf and founded iesf, are you surprised?
No, I'm not surprised since you and others have said this since page 3 oO?
Since the prize money is given out based on a countries COMBINED results in SC2 and FIFA (according to liquidpidia) does anyone know if there is a player (country) that is a heavy favorite for that? That system could make the actual money winner interesting.... There is no guarantee that first place SC2 get any money at all I think.
On September 27 2011 09:54 MadNeSs wrote: Why are they allowed to hold a sc2 tourney in Korea? I thought only gom was allowed to host tournatments in Korea.
GOMTV is a TV organization. They can be looked at as a TV station. Any event that they have is an event that is broadcasted on their TV platform. KeSPA is an eSports organization. Unlike most countries which support several eSports organizations, Korea (before SC2) only supports KeSPA, and KeSPA supports the teams etc which all are property of KeSPA. Anything that is eSports is KeSPA. Tournaments such as IeSF look for organizations within the country they are hosting it in to perform host duties for them, since they are less of tournament administrators and more tournament organizers. If it were to be in USA, they'd find an organization to host it there, if it was Singapore they'd find an organization to host it there.
KeSPA owns every single eSports title in Korea except for SC2, and is by far the greatest recognized eSports organization in Korea, thus IeSF turned to them to host the tourny for them. IeSF says "bw sucks, no bw, sc2 instead" KeSPA says "fine, but I ain't letting none of them Korean asshole traitors take any o' 'dis prize moneh~!" and bans Koreans from playing sc2.
Reasons for KeSPA screwing over Korean SC2 players? Simple... Those Korean SC2 players left KeSPA to support the 1 main eSports title the KeSPA doesn't support. In a relatively small way, this is REVENGE RAWR OMG. Because KeSPA is run by a bunch of kids who have no idea how to do anything (nah they are pretty good at what they do, they are just fucking idiots with no morality). And thus, I hope they, in some way or another, lose everything that they own and be left with nothing. Because they are pieces of shit and should be treated like trash. ^______________^
According to this (and this), the IeSF asked the member National Federations to submit a list of 5 games that they wanted to be included in the annual IeSF World Championship.
So I guess that's how StarCraft 2 got selected over BW. Just a guess though.
Please stay with brood war, KeSPA, and never trouble us again.
Realistically, IeSF sounds like they have a serious awareness gap between their admin and the actual game communities. From what iNC said earlier, this looks like it might have been a bw tournament until a little while ago, and then they went ahead and changed it to SC2 without thinking whether KeSPA was still the relevant organisation. GJ, guys.
I don't know why you guys got so riled up about ... it's a perfectly sensible decision from KeSPA ... you can't just expect them to make exception for occasions like this ...
if anything, try to convince them to recognize SC2 first ... if not, things like this are just obvious consequences
On September 27 2011 02:36 shell wrote: lol KeSPA works so hard to be hated by all the foreigners, and lets face it.. THEY DO A GOOD JOB!
First they created a system where there was almost no chance for foreigner participation even tho there is alot of guys that love BW and SC2 outside of korea and could bring alot more exposure and money to their scene.. but they say NO!
why should kespa care at ALL about foreigners? they are in the domestic market, and pleasing foreigners who won't buy shit for korean products do no good (except samsung, but they are already super popular worldwide)
On September 27 2011 13:37 nayumi wrote: I don't know why you guys got so riled up about ... it's a perfectly sensible decision from KeSPA ... you can't just expect them to make exception for occasions like this ...
if anything, try to convince them to recognize SC2 first ... if not, things like this are just obvious consequences
Exception from what? Is it a common occurance that KeSPA refuses to invite players to IeSF events?
On September 27 2011 09:54 MadNeSs wrote: Why are they allowed to hold a sc2 tourney in Korea? I thought only gom was allowed to host tournatments in Korea.
GOMTV is a TV organization. They can be looked at as a TV station. Any event that they have is an event that is broadcasted on their TV platform. KeSPA is an eSports organization. Unlike most countries which support several eSports organizations, Korea (before SC2) only supports KeSPA, and KeSPA supports the teams etc which all are property of KeSPA. Anything that is eSports is KeSPA. Tournaments such as IeSF look for organizations within the country they are hosting it in to perform host duties for them, since they are less of tournament administrators and more tournament organizers. If it were to be in USA, they'd find an organization to host it there, if it was Singapore they'd find an organization to host it there.
KeSPA owns every single eSports title in Korea except for SC2, and is by far the greatest recognized eSports organization in Korea, thus IeSF turned to them to host the tourny for them. IeSF says "bw sucks, no bw, sc2 instead" KeSPA says "fine, but I ain't letting none of them Korean asshole traitors take any o' 'dis prize moneh~!" and bans Koreans from playing sc2.
Reasons for KeSPA screwing over Korean SC2 players? Simple... Those Korean SC2 players left KeSPA to support the 1 main eSports title the KeSPA doesn't support. In a relatively small way, this is REVENGE RAWR OMG. Because KeSPA is run by a bunch of kids who have no idea how to do anything (nah they are pretty good at what they do, they are just fucking idiots with no morality). And thus, I hope they, in some way or another, lose everything that they own and be left with nothing. Because they are pieces of shit and should be treated like trash. ^______________^
I don't understand this. Even with whatever happened in the flow of logic over getting the representatives for Korea, couldn't IeSF compensate for this by hosting an open qualifier tournament similar to one of TL's Open Tournaments on a single day?
On September 27 2011 09:54 MadNeSs wrote: Why are they allowed to hold a sc2 tourney in Korea? I thought only gom was allowed to host tournatments in Korea.
GOMTV is a TV organization. They can be looked at as a TV station. Any event that they have is an event that is broadcasted on their TV platform. KeSPA is an eSports organization. Unlike most countries which support several eSports organizations, Korea (before SC2) only supports KeSPA, and KeSPA supports the teams etc which all are property of KeSPA. Anything that is eSports is KeSPA. Tournaments such as IeSF look for organizations within the country they are hosting it in to perform host duties for them, since they are less of tournament administrators and more tournament organizers. If it were to be in USA, they'd find an organization to host it there, if it was Singapore they'd find an organization to host it there.
KeSPA owns every single eSports title in Korea except for SC2, and is by far the greatest recognized eSports organization in Korea, thus IeSF turned to them to host the tourny for them. IeSF says "bw sucks, no bw, sc2 instead" KeSPA says "fine, but I ain't letting none of them Korean asshole traitors take any o' 'dis prize moneh~!" and bans Koreans from playing sc2.
Reasons for KeSPA screwing over Korean SC2 players? Simple... Those Korean SC2 players left KeSPA to support the 1 main eSports title the KeSPA doesn't support. In a relatively small way, this is REVENGE RAWR OMG. Because KeSPA is run by a bunch of kids who have no idea how to do anything (nah they are pretty good at what they do, they are just fucking idiots with no morality). And thus, I hope they, in some way or another, lose everything that they own and be left with nothing. Because they are pieces of shit and should be treated like trash. ^______________^
I see thanks. This was alle I wanted to know .
Ahah good explanation. ^____^
I wonder if SC2 Association didn't die yet, if lesf would have contacted them instead.
On September 27 2011 09:54 MadNeSs wrote: Why are they allowed to hold a sc2 tourney in Korea? I thought only gom was allowed to host tournatments in Korea.
GOMTV is a TV organization. They can be looked at as a TV station. Any event that they have is an event that is broadcasted on their TV platform. KeSPA is an eSports organization. Unlike most countries which support several eSports organizations, Korea (before SC2) only supports KeSPA, and KeSPA supports the teams etc which all are property of KeSPA. Anything that is eSports is KeSPA. Tournaments such as IeSF look for organizations within the country they are hosting it in to perform host duties for them, since they are less of tournament administrators and more tournament organizers. If it were to be in USA, they'd find an organization to host it there, if it was Singapore they'd find an organization to host it there.
KeSPA owns every single eSports title in Korea except for SC2, and is by far the greatest recognized eSports organization in Korea, thus IeSF turned to them to host the tourny for them. IeSF says "bw sucks, no bw, sc2 instead" KeSPA says "fine, but I ain't letting none of them Korean asshole traitors take any o' 'dis prize moneh~!" and bans Koreans from playing sc2.
Reasons for KeSPA screwing over Korean SC2 players? Simple... Those Korean SC2 players left KeSPA to support the 1 main eSports title the KeSPA doesn't support. In a relatively small way, this is REVENGE RAWR OMG. Because KeSPA is run by a bunch of kids who have no idea how to do anything (nah they are pretty good at what they do, they are just fucking idiots with no morality). And thus, I hope they, in some way or another, lose everything that they own and be left with nothing. Because they are pieces of shit and should be treated like trash. ^______________^
I see thanks. This was alle I wanted to know .
Ahah good explanation. ^____^
I wonder if SC2 Association didn't die yet, if lesf would have contacted them instead.
I don't think this is accurate. For starters, IeSF has KeSPA origins
On September 27 2011 10:00 emc wrote: makes sense because KeSPA hasn't been involved with SC2 at all. Why wouldn't IeSF go to GOM? Clearly GSL is the tournament in korea so it would only make sense to choose a representative who has the highest points in GSL.
I don't know all the details but if KeSPA HAD to be involved then why wouldn't they choose BW for their game instead of SC2? None of this makes much sense except that KeSPA is trying to hurt the SC2 community on purpose to promote BW, which would be the stupidest thing they could do.
Cause there are 4 games, and almost every competitive game has registered pros under Kespa (including the 3 other games hosted in IeSF, except SC2) So its obvious why IeSF went to Kespa to pick its Rep for this event.
kespa kind of funds iesf and founded iesf, are you surprised?
If anything, this is an anti-gom move on KeSPA part seeing as they permitted sc2 to be played in the first place.
On September 27 2011 14:45 Plexa wrote: If anything, this is an anti-gom move on KeSPA part seeing as they permitted sc2 to be played in the first place.
Interesting point. I don't think it's fair to go on a kespa hate parade when A-B is partly to blame as well. Anyone seriously interested should read about the whole broadcasting rights slap fight; Both sides have a lot of bad blood.
I don't see What the big fuss is all about. It's a small silly tournament that consists mostly of low level semi-pro players. If there actually was a korean player there it would just ruin all the tension since they could probably win it playing with one hand.
Besides that, the prize distribution is absolutely retarded. All the prize money goes to the combined #1 #2 and #3 of the SC2+FIFA tournament. A player could go undefeated through the entire starcraft tournament and still end up with 3rd prize >_<
Oh and IPL3 is on the same date. Yeah, no one is gonna watch this, koreans or not. I can definitly understand why KeSPA isn't bothering sending anyone...
If only player with a progaming license are allowed to participate just send Flash in then? Should be awesome to watch how he destroys mediocre foreigner in a game he has never played before
On September 27 2011 09:54 MadNeSs wrote: Why are they allowed to hold a sc2 tourney in Korea? I thought only gom was allowed to host tournatments in Korea.
GOMTV is a TV organization. They can be looked at as a TV station. Any event that they have is an event that is broadcasted on their TV platform. KeSPA is an eSports organization. Unlike most countries which support several eSports organizations, Korea (before SC2) only supports KeSPA, and KeSPA supports the teams etc which all are property of KeSPA. Anything that is eSports is KeSPA. Tournaments such as IeSF look for organizations within the country they are hosting it in to perform host duties for them, since they are less of tournament administrators and more tournament organizers. If it were to be in USA, they'd find an organization to host it there, if it was Singapore they'd find an organization to host it there.
KeSPA owns every single eSports title in Korea except for SC2, and is by far the greatest recognized eSports organization in Korea, thus IeSF turned to them to host the tourny for them. IeSF says "bw sucks, no bw, sc2 instead" KeSPA says "fine, but I ain't letting none of them Korean asshole traitors take any o' 'dis prize moneh~!" and bans Koreans from playing sc2.
Reasons for KeSPA screwing over Korean SC2 players? Simple... Those Korean SC2 players left KeSPA to support the 1 main eSports title the KeSPA doesn't support. In a relatively small way, this is REVENGE RAWR OMG. Because KeSPA is run by a bunch of kids who have no idea how to do anything (nah they are pretty good at what they do, they are just fucking idiots with no morality). And thus, I hope they, in some way or another, lose everything that they own and be left with nothing. Because they are pieces of shit and should be treated like trash. ^______________^
I see thanks. This was alle I wanted to know .
Ahah good explanation. ^____^
I wonder if SC2 Association didn't die yet, if lesf would have contacted them instead.
I don't think this is accurate. For starters, IeSF has KeSPA origins
On September 27 2011 10:00 emc wrote: makes sense because KeSPA hasn't been involved with SC2 at all. Why wouldn't IeSF go to GOM? Clearly GSL is the tournament in korea so it would only make sense to choose a representative who has the highest points in GSL.
I don't know all the details but if KeSPA HAD to be involved then why wouldn't they choose BW for their game instead of SC2? None of this makes much sense except that KeSPA is trying to hurt the SC2 community on purpose to promote BW, which would be the stupidest thing they could do.
Cause there are 4 games, and almost every competitive game has registered pros under Kespa (including the 3 other games hosted in IeSF, except SC2) So its obvious why IeSF went to Kespa to pick its Rep for this event.
kespa kind of funds iesf and founded iesf, are you surprised?
If anything, this is an anti-gom move on KeSPA part seeing as they permitted sc2 to be played in the first place.
More like other participating countries didnt want to send BW players. So we either have IeSF BW with only koreans or IeSF sc2 without koreans
On September 27 2011 16:06 Vorenius wrote: I don't see What the big fuss is all about. It's a small silly tournament that consists mostly of low level semi-pro players. If there actually was a korean player there it would just ruin all the tension since they could probably win it playing with one hand.
Besides that, the prize distribution is absolutely retarded. All the prize money goes to the combined #1 #2 and #3 of the SC2+FIFA tournament. A player could go undefeated through the entire starcraft tournament and still end up with 3rd prize >_<
Oh and IPL3 is on the same date. Yeah, no one is gonna watch this, koreans or not. I can definitly understand why KeSPA isn't bothering sending anyone...
they pay everything to the players and ye ill watch it and all player you said are good to me so dunno what you talking about :p
On September 27 2011 16:06 Vorenius wrote: I don't see What the big fuss is all about. It's a small silly tournament that consists mostly of low level semi-pro players. If there actually was a korean player there it would just ruin all the tension since they could probably win it playing with one hand.
Besides that, the prize distribution is absolutely retarded. All the prize money goes to the combined #1 #2 and #3 of the SC2+FIFA tournament. A player could go undefeated through the entire starcraft tournament and still end up with 3rd prize >_<
Oh and IPL3 is on the same date. Yeah, no one is gonna watch this, koreans or not. I can definitly understand why KeSPA isn't bothering sending anyone...
Osho has been doing quite hot lately (in online cups atleast, i remember him owning it up at the first DH or something too). So has monchi.
I disagree about no one will be watching this. I probably might tune in, isn't IPL always LIVE on inhuman times for europeans? I don't watch restreams, thus have almost never watched IPL except for result. Probably am not alone here.
On September 27 2011 16:06 Vorenius wrote: I don't see What the big fuss is all about. It's a small silly tournament that consists mostly of low level semi-pro players. If there actually was a korean player there it would just ruin all the tension since they could probably win it playing with one hand.
Besides that, the prize distribution is absolutely retarded. All the prize money goes to the combined #1 #2 and #3 of the SC2+FIFA tournament. A player could go undefeated through the entire starcraft tournament and still end up with 3rd prize >_<
Oh and IPL3 is on the same date. Yeah, no one is gonna watch this, koreans or not. I can definitly understand why KeSPA isn't bothering sending anyone...
Monchi almost beat dimaga in a bo5 yesterday, ciara had a good showing in TSL3, osho plays in the beastly team acer, ball is actually softball who plays in NASL and elfi has been very successful in the European internet cups. I'll be watching this tournament for sure so I can see these very good players.
On September 27 2011 09:54 MadNeSs wrote: Why are they allowed to hold a sc2 tourney in Korea? I thought only gom was allowed to host tournatments in Korea.
GOMTV is a TV organization. They can be looked at as a TV station. Any event that they have is an event that is broadcasted on their TV platform. KeSPA is an eSports organization. Unlike most countries which support several eSports organizations, Korea (before SC2) only supports KeSPA, and KeSPA supports the teams etc which all are property of KeSPA. Anything that is eSports is KeSPA. Tournaments such as IeSF look for organizations within the country they are hosting it in to perform host duties for them, since they are less of tournament administrators and more tournament organizers. If it were to be in USA, they'd find an organization to host it there, if it was Singapore they'd find an organization to host it there.
KeSPA owns every single eSports title in Korea except for SC2, and is by far the greatest recognized eSports organization in Korea, thus IeSF turned to them to host the tourny for them. IeSF says "bw sucks, no bw, sc2 instead" KeSPA says "fine, but I ain't letting none of them Korean asshole traitors take any o' 'dis prize moneh~!" and bans Koreans from playing sc2.
Reasons for KeSPA screwing over Korean SC2 players? Simple... Those Korean SC2 players left KeSPA to support the 1 main eSports title the KeSPA doesn't support. In a relatively small way, this is REVENGE RAWR OMG. Because KeSPA is run by a bunch of kids who have no idea how to do anything (nah they are pretty good at what they do, they are just fucking idiots with no morality). And thus, I hope they, in some way or another, lose everything that they own and be left with nothing. Because they are pieces of shit and should be treated like trash. ^______________^
I see thanks. This was alle I wanted to know .
Ahah good explanation. ^____^
I wonder if SC2 Association didn't die yet, if lesf would have contacted them instead.
I don't think this is accurate. For starters, IeSF has KeSPA origins
On September 27 2011 10:00 emc wrote: makes sense because KeSPA hasn't been involved with SC2 at all. Why wouldn't IeSF go to GOM? Clearly GSL is the tournament in korea so it would only make sense to choose a representative who has the highest points in GSL.
I don't know all the details but if KeSPA HAD to be involved then why wouldn't they choose BW for their game instead of SC2? None of this makes much sense except that KeSPA is trying to hurt the SC2 community on purpose to promote BW, which would be the stupidest thing they could do.
Cause there are 4 games, and almost every competitive game has registered pros under Kespa (including the 3 other games hosted in IeSF, except SC2) So its obvious why IeSF went to Kespa to pick its Rep for this event.
kespa kind of funds iesf and founded iesf, are you surprised?
If anything, this is an anti-gom move on KeSPA part seeing as they permitted sc2 to be played in the first place.
Maybe cause other countries didn't want to send players for BW (lets face it. Its basically dead in western e-sports). So we either have IeSF with BW but no foreginers playing or IeSF with SC2 with no koreans. And yeah. I too think that its cause of the gom - kespa war.
On September 27 2011 16:06 Vorenius wrote: I don't see What the big fuss is all about. It's a small silly tournament that consists mostly of low level semi-pro players. If there actually was a korean player there it would just ruin all the tension since they could probably win it playing with one hand.
Besides that, the prize distribution is absolutely retarded. All the prize money goes to the combined #1 #2 and #3 of the SC2+FIFA tournament. A player could go undefeated through the entire starcraft tournament and still end up with 3rd prize >_<
Oh and IPL3 is on the same date. Yeah, no one is gonna watch this, koreans or not. I can definitly understand why KeSPA isn't bothering sending anyone...
Monchi almost beat dimaga in a bo5 yesterday, ciara had a good showing in TSL3, osho plays in the beastly team acer, ball is actually softball who plays in NASL and elfi has been very successful in the European internet cups. I'll be watching this tournament for sure so I can see these very good players.
How can you say that Ciara had a showing in TSL3? He got destroyed by MC. MC almost killed him with like 1 voidray on tal'darim.
LOL :D KEPSA being KESPA :D That's as fuck ass dumb shit as it gets. Can't they just borrow a look into GSL standings and pick 2-3 names out of the top 10 list there ? Or just look at the korean ladder and pick 2-3 names from the top 10 ? How fucking hard it can be ???
On September 27 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: LOL :D KEPSA being KESPA :D That's as fuck ass dumb shit as it gets. Can't they just borrow a look into GSL standings and pick 2-3 names out of the top 10 list there ? Or just look at the korean ladder and pick 2-3 names from the top 10 ? How fucking hard it can be ???
No, because the guys that play sc2 in Korea don't have progaming licences because they are not under Kespa rule, thus they can't compete in Kespa organised tourneys.
On September 27 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: LOL :D KEPSA being KESPA :D That's as fuck ass dumb shit as it gets. Can't they just borrow a look into GSL standings and pick 2-3 names out of the top 10 list there ? Or just look at the korean ladder and pick 2-3 names from the top 10 ? How fucking hard it can be ???
It's not their business. You don't expect Microsoft to make fast food, you cannot expect Kespa to do Sc2 stuffs. They have 0 business in SC2.
On September 27 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: LOL :D KEPSA being KESPA :D That's as fuck ass dumb shit as it gets. Can't they just borrow a look into GSL standings and pick 2-3 names out of the top 10 list there ? Or just look at the korean ladder and pick 2-3 names from the top 10 ? How fucking hard it can be ???
It's not their business. You don't expect Microsoft to make fast food, you cannot expect Kespa to do Sc2 stuffs. They have 0 business in SC2.
If Microsoft had the responsibility to feed its customers, then they would at least outsource that shit to Mcdonalds or Burger King if they can't make the food themselves. Just flat out letting them starve because 'it's not our business' is being stubborn and petty. Also, how is shitting on the current korean SC2 scene going to help them in the long run? All they had to do was make one phone call to Gom and ask them to handle it. Is that so hard? I guess they have too much useless pride for that.
On September 27 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: LOL :D KEPSA being KESPA :D That's as fuck ass dumb shit as it gets. Can't they just borrow a look into GSL standings and pick 2-3 names out of the top 10 list there ? Or just look at the korean ladder and pick 2-3 names from the top 10 ? How fucking hard it can be ???
It's not their business. You don't expect Microsoft to make fast food, you cannot expect Kespa to do Sc2 stuffs. They have 0 business in SC2.
If Microsoft had the responsibility to feed its customers, then they would at least outsource that shit to Mcdonalds or Burger King if they can't make the food themselves.
They don't have that responsibility, neither does Kespa. I work in a company that makes test machine and if someone asks my boss to make fast food the anwser is an absolute "no" no matter the situation. That's how business operate. Kespa cannot decide which organization will choose the players for them too, they don't have the right to do so. Only IeSF has that right.
On September 27 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: LOL :D KEPSA being KESPA :D That's as fuck ass dumb shit as it gets. Can't they just borrow a look into GSL standings and pick 2-3 names out of the top 10 list there ? Or just look at the korean ladder and pick 2-3 names from the top 10 ? How fucking hard it can be ???
It's not their business. You don't expect Microsoft to make fast food, you cannot expect Kespa to do Sc2 stuffs. They have 0 business in SC2.
Fail analogy is fail. Both BW and SC2 both share a common genre - computer games. Microsoft is a software company. Fast food is physical food and completely unrelated to software.
On September 27 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: LOL :D KEPSA being KESPA :D That's as fuck ass dumb shit as it gets. Can't they just borrow a look into GSL standings and pick 2-3 names out of the top 10 list there ? Or just look at the korean ladder and pick 2-3 names from the top 10 ? How fucking hard it can be ???
It's not their business. You don't expect Microsoft to make fast food, you cannot expect Kespa to do Sc2 stuffs. They have 0 business in SC2.
Fail analogy is fail. Both BW and SC2 both share a common genre - computer games. Microsoft is a software company. Fast food is physical food and completely unrelated to software.
Related or not, it's still not their business lol. They are not supposed to "choose" SC2 players for tournament, Valve is not supposed to do starcraft stuffs, Blizzard is not supposed to do half-life stuffs. Common genre or not doesn't matter.
On September 27 2011 19:47 attentioN. wrote: Kespa being Kespa...
You mean by protecting their staked interest in the Brood War scene?
Kespa may be pulling a dick move here, but it's because their business is Brood War, and supporting SC2 is direct competition to that motive. By not selecting a Korean SC2 representative, they likely turn off Korean viewership to an SC2 event and lessen the odds of more people jumping ship from viewing BW to SC2, thus keeping interest in BW.
Or at least in theory.
E: Also, if the roles had been reversed, and GOM had to choose a representative for a BW tournament, do you think the outcome would have been any different? (Hint: It's unlikely)
Hmm I guess it's true that it's not their business. It is a company after all. I do however think gom would do it different but maybe that's just naive.
I don't think I understand the polotics of Korean progamming very well... Why is KeSPA able to block the participation of any Korean player? Are they all contractually obligated to do what KeSPA tells them? I'm sure there are pleanty of Koreans who would like to participate.
On September 27 2011 16:06 Vorenius wrote: I don't see What the big fuss is all about. It's a small silly tournament that consists mostly of low level semi-pro players. If there actually was a korean player there it would just ruin all the tension since they could probably win it playing with one hand.
Besides that, the prize distribution is absolutely retarded. All the prize money goes to the combined #1 #2 and #3 of the SC2+FIFA tournament. A player could go undefeated through the entire starcraft tournament and still end up with 3rd prize >_<
Oh and IPL3 is on the same date. Yeah, no one is gonna watch this, koreans or not. I can definitly understand why KeSPA isn't bothering sending anyone...
Monchi almost beat dimaga in a bo5 yesterday, ciara had a good showing in TSL3, osho plays in the beastly team acer, ball is actually softball who plays in NASL and elfi has been very successful in the European internet cups. I'll be watching this tournament for sure so I can see these very good players.
Monchi's achievement is losing to Dimaga? Ciara made it to TSL Ro32... where he died when MC 3gate expoed and rallied some units to his base. :/ Softball's most notable accomplishment is lending Sen his account, yeah he got invited to NASL, and he's 0-2 so far.
Don't get me wrong these are all good players in their own right, but they are no where near capable of winning big tournaments. Or rather, they wouldn't be if it wasn't only them competing. You can't deny it's pretty easy to name at least 50, if not 100, better players than the majority of player competing in IeSF.
this kind of hate between sc:bw and sc2 is just silly. i just feel sad that players who would like to take the challange cant be part of it. Sad day for esport, sad day for competition and ofc...after reading so much comments...sad for TL-Community.
On September 27 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: LOL :D KEPSA being KESPA :D That's as fuck ass dumb shit as it gets. Can't they just borrow a look into GSL standings and pick 2-3 names out of the top 10 list there ? Or just look at the korean ladder and pick 2-3 names from the top 10 ? How fucking hard it can be ???
It's not their business. You don't expect Microsoft to make fast food, you cannot expect Kespa to do Sc2 stuffs. They have 0 business in SC2.
Fail analogy is fail. Both BW and SC2 both share a common genre - computer games. Microsoft is a software company. Fast food is physical food and completely unrelated to software.
Related or not, it's still not their business lol. They are not supposed to "choose" SC2 players for tournament, Valve is not supposed to do starcraft stuffs, Blizzard is not supposed to do half-life stuffs. Common genre or not doesn't matter.
The point here is that they DO have the responsibility of choosing the Korean SC2 players. So how is just flat out not choosing anyone better than passing the duty off to someone who runs the only league in Korea? You guys are being too rigid with this 'it's not in Kespa's scope so they're perfectly entitled' argument. Whether it's technically within their rights or not is not the issue. It's the fact that they're completely refusing to deal with the existing korean SC2 scene when it's easy to do so.
On September 27 2011 21:25 gentix wrote: I don't think I understand the polotics of Korean progamming very well... Why is KeSPA able to block the participation of any Korean player? Are they all contractually obligated to do what KeSPA tells them? I'm sure there are pleanty of Koreans who would like to participate.
I believe its the reverse actually. SC2 progamers are not under Kespa jurisdiction, do not have progamer licenses (and thus are not pro's but thats just semantics) so Kespa cannot just go and say hey Iron, Zergbong, MVP you guys are our Korean reps for IEF.
@Telcontar The issue is, officially there are no Korean SC2 progamers to choose ^^ Just as Microsoft does not have burgers in their assembly lines?
On September 27 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: LOL :D KEPSA being KESPA :D That's as fuck ass dumb shit as it gets. Can't they just borrow a look into GSL standings and pick 2-3 names out of the top 10 list there ? Or just look at the korean ladder and pick 2-3 names from the top 10 ? How fucking hard it can be ???
It's not their business. You don't expect Microsoft to make fast food, you cannot expect Kespa to do Sc2 stuffs. They have 0 business in SC2.
its more like you asking your boss at microsoft where you should eat fast food tonight. takes 5 seconds to pick
lol.... time for Sjow to tear the competition in half... is there ANYONE on the qualifier list that's a serious threat to him? I was looking forward to a Sjow idrA finals... but since idrA's going to be IPL'ing it up....
On September 27 2011 16:06 Vorenius wrote: I don't see What the big fuss is all about. It's a small silly tournament that consists mostly of low level semi-pro players. If there actually was a korean player there it would just ruin all the tension since they could probably win it playing with one hand.
Besides that, the prize distribution is absolutely retarded. All the prize money goes to the combined #1 #2 and #3 of the SC2+FIFA tournament. A player could go undefeated through the entire starcraft tournament and still end up with 3rd prize >_<
Oh and IPL3 is on the same date. Yeah, no one is gonna watch this, koreans or not. I can definitly understand why KeSPA isn't bothering sending anyone...
Monchi almost beat dimaga in a bo5 yesterday, ciara had a good showing in TSL3, osho plays in the beastly team acer, ball is actually softball who plays in NASL and elfi has been very successful in the European internet cups. I'll be watching this tournament for sure so I can see these very good players.
On September 27 2011 23:00 ShatterZer0 wrote: lol.... time for Sjow to tear the competition in half... is there ANYONE on the qualifier list that's a serious threat to him? I was looking forward to a Sjow idrA finals... but since idrA's going to be IPL'ing it up....
On September 27 2011 23:00 ShatterZer0 wrote: lol.... time for Sjow to tear the competition in half... is there ANYONE on the qualifier list that's a serious threat to him? I was looking forward to a Sjow idrA finals... but since idrA's going to be IPL'ing it up....
goody vs sjow stats are 14-16 elfi vs sjow 5-5
SjoW can lose to GoOdy , Elfi , Osho , Monchi or pretty much anyone else.
On September 27 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: LOL :D KEPSA being KESPA :D That's as fuck ass dumb shit as it gets. Can't they just borrow a look into GSL standings and pick 2-3 names out of the top 10 list there ? Or just look at the korean ladder and pick 2-3 names from the top 10 ? How fucking hard it can be ???
It's not their business. You don't expect Microsoft to make fast food, you cannot expect Kespa to do Sc2 stuffs. They have 0 business in SC2.
Fail analogy is fail. Both BW and SC2 both share a common genre - computer games. Microsoft is a software company. Fast food is physical food and completely unrelated to software.
Related or not, it's still not their business lol. They are not supposed to "choose" SC2 players for tournament, Valve is not supposed to do starcraft stuffs, Blizzard is not supposed to do half-life stuffs. Common genre or not doesn't matter.
KeSPA stands for Korean e-Sports Player Assosiation. They are supposed to take care of all esport games. But they wont accept sc2 as an esport. But counter-strike and fifa is according to them.
I think its Kespas responsibilty for Korean gamers to also send sc2 players. Since it is their business.
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
On September 27 2011 16:06 Vorenius wrote: I don't see What the big fuss is all about. It's a small silly tournament that consists mostly of low level semi-pro players. If there actually was a korean player there it would just ruin all the tension since they could probably win it playing with one hand.
Besides that, the prize distribution is absolutely retarded. All the prize money goes to the combined #1 #2 and #3 of the SC2+FIFA tournament. A player could go undefeated through the entire starcraft tournament and still end up with 3rd prize >_<
Oh and IPL3 is on the same date. Yeah, no one is gonna watch this, koreans or not. I can definitly understand why KeSPA isn't bothering sending anyone...
Monchi almost beat dimaga in a bo5 yesterday, ciara had a good showing in TSL3, osho plays in the beastly team acer, ball is actually softball who plays in NASL and elfi has been very successful in the European internet cups. I'll be watching this tournament for sure so I can see these very good players.
Monchi's achievement is losing to Dimaga?
Monchi beat Dimaga.
archonOOid said he lost. The match isn't on TLPD. :s
In any case that hardly matters. Top level players take games off eachother all the time. That still doesn't mean anyone in the right mind would consider Monchi a serious contender for a major international LAN tournament if a big part of the worlds best players were going.
On September 27 2011 19:24 speedphlux wrote: LOL :D KEPSA being KESPA :D That's as fuck ass dumb shit as it gets. Can't they just borrow a look into GSL standings and pick 2-3 names out of the top 10 list there ? Or just look at the korean ladder and pick 2-3 names from the top 10 ? How fucking hard it can be ???
It's not their business. You don't expect Microsoft to make fast food, you cannot expect Kespa to do Sc2 stuffs. They have 0 business in SC2.
Fail analogy is fail. Both BW and SC2 both share a common genre - computer games. Microsoft is a software company. Fast food is physical food and completely unrelated to software.
Related or not, it's still not their business lol. They are not supposed to "choose" SC2 players for tournament, Valve is not supposed to do starcraft stuffs, Blizzard is not supposed to do half-life stuffs. Common genre or not doesn't matter.
The point here is that they DO have the responsibility of choosing the Korean SC2 players. So how is just flat out not choosing anyone better than passing the duty off to someone who runs the only league in Korea? You guys are being too rigid with this 'it's not in Kespa's scope so they're perfectly entitled' argument. Whether it's technically within their rights or not is not the issue. It's the fact that they're completely refusing to deal with the existing korean SC2 scene when it's easy to do so.
This is still completely wrong. They have NO responsibility to choose SC2 players. It's IeSF 's fault asking them to do so. This is exactly like asking Microsoft to make fast food. Their employees are not trained for SC2, the scope of their organisation doesn't cover SC2, they have 0 business in SC2. If you have a software company and some organisation asks you to sell cookies, you are supposed to obey them and waste your ressources finding a solution for them ? Just plain out say "no it's not our job" is the best course of action here. IeSF should have simply contacted an SC2 organisation instead of Kespa. This is totally IeSF's fault. Also, they cannot "pass rights" to GOMTV or whatever, it's IeSF's duty to choose the organisation which choose the players, Kespa don't have the right to do so.
On September 27 2011 16:06 Vorenius wrote: I don't see What the big fuss is all about. It's a small silly tournament that consists mostly of low level semi-pro players. If there actually was a korean player there it would just ruin all the tension since they could probably win it playing with one hand.
Besides that, the prize distribution is absolutely retarded. All the prize money goes to the combined #1 #2 and #3 of the SC2+FIFA tournament. A player could go undefeated through the entire starcraft tournament and still end up with 3rd prize >_<
Oh and IPL3 is on the same date. Yeah, no one is gonna watch this, koreans or not. I can definitly understand why KeSPA isn't bothering sending anyone...
Monchi almost beat dimaga in a bo5 yesterday, ciara had a good showing in TSL3, osho plays in the beastly team acer, ball is actually softball who plays in NASL and elfi has been very successful in the European internet cups. I'll be watching this tournament for sure so I can see these very good players.
Monchi's achievement is losing to Dimaga?
Monchi beat Dimaga.
archonOOid said he lost. The match isn't on TLPD. :s
In any case that hardly matters. Top level players take games off eachother all the time. That still doesn't mean anyone in the right mind would consider Monchi a serious contender for a major international LAN tournament if a big part of the worlds best players were going.
On September 27 2011 16:06 Vorenius wrote: I don't see What the big fuss is all about. It's a small silly tournament that consists mostly of low level semi-pro players. If there actually was a korean player there it would just ruin all the tension since they could probably win it playing with one hand.
Besides that, the prize distribution is absolutely retarded. All the prize money goes to the combined #1 #2 and #3 of the SC2+FIFA tournament. A player could go undefeated through the entire starcraft tournament and still end up with 3rd prize >_<
Oh and IPL3 is on the same date. Yeah, no one is gonna watch this, koreans or not. I can definitly understand why KeSPA isn't bothering sending anyone...
Monchi almost beat dimaga in a bo5 yesterday, ciara had a good showing in TSL3, osho plays in the beastly team acer, ball is actually softball who plays in NASL and elfi has been very successful in the European internet cups. I'll be watching this tournament for sure so I can see these very good players.
Monchi's achievement is losing to Dimaga?
Monchi beat Dimaga.
archonOOid said he lost. The match isn't on TLPD. :s
In any case that hardly matters. Top level players take games off eachother all the time. That still doesn't mean anyone in the right mind would consider Monchi a serious contender for a major international LAN tournament if a big part of the worlds best players were going.
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
really... here's what really happened behind all the media/press.
lesf selected sc2 before asking the opinion of kespa. kespa says no, just cuz they can, and lesf has to rethink their titles. communication...
now lets insinuate bitterness toward gretech by hinting agreement difficulties and threatening switching titles. but before saying dammit gretech, u gotta look back that if kespa is not supporting sc2, there is no reason to hold a sc2 tournament in korea if you don't have korean players. tricky business.
Gretech should just take one for the team and give up their exclusive broadcasting rights. Seriously, they are inhibiting the growth of their own market.
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
really... here's what really happened behind all the media/press.
lesf selected sc2 before asking the opinion of kespa. kespa says no, just cuz they can, and lesf has to rethink their titles. communication...
now lets insinuate bitterness toward gretech by hinting agreement difficulties and threatening switching titles. but before saying dammit gretech, u gotta look back that if kespa is not supporting sc2, there is no reason to hold a sc2 tournament in korea if you don't have korean players. tricky business.
I think you miss the entire point. Why would IESF ask for Kespa's opinion at all? Either before or after deciding on having sc2?
While in name, kespa is an association for all esports players in Korea, they don't in actuality have any association with sc2 or it's players. None of the sc2 players hold a progaming license under kespa, sc2 is not a kespa sanctioned game, kespa doesn't sanction any of the sc2 competitions and they certainly have no jurisdiction in anything sc2 related. In short this had nothing to do with Kespa in the first place.
It's not like Kespa can block sc2 players from going even if they wanted to, what are they going to do, strip them of progaming licenses they don't have if they go? They also can't make the chosen representatives go even should they randomly choose some, as they have no authority over those players.
In this case what Kespa is doing is both within their right, and in the right. They have neither expertise nor jurisdiction in the subject, and the absence of decision stops nothing, since IESF could go ask someone else for the decision at any time, which they should have done in the first place.
It's retarded to expect kespa to have to go to the effort of making a decision in a topic that is completely unrelated to them. There is no politics going on here, this is just IESF being retarded.
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
Trying to go around Kespa workin reaaaal well for Blizzard. Whatever the $ license fee they get from Gom; they could've gotten 10x more if they just worked with Kespa, and not completely flop in the biggest E-sport nation in the world.
If Kespa is funding the IeSF they should just let Bw get play so we get something to watch between PL and till the next OSL .
On September 28 2011 02:34 thepuppyassassin wrote: Gretech should just take one for the team and give up their exclusive broadcasting rights. Seriously, they are inhibiting the growth of their own market.
This doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. Why should GOM give up their exclusive rights?
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
Trying to go around Kespa workin reaaaal well for Blizzard. Whatever the $ license fee they get from Gom; they could've gotten 10x more if they just worked with Kespa, and not completely flop in the biggest E-sport nation in the world.
If Kespa is funding the IeSF they should just let Bw get play so we get something to watch between PL and till the next OSL .
GOM is more friendly to the international market and viewers. If KESPA was in charge i doubt we have the type of korean-foreign interation we're having right now. Even WCG and OGN is ignoring KESPA and working with GOM when it comes to sc2
What happens if they label SC2 an exhibition title, anyway? if they still hold the tournament it makes little difference, doesn't it? or does it mean they might cancel the SC2 tournament?
...and get the facts straight to why this has happened.
The IeSF stands for "International eSport Association" an is the eSport equaliant to FIFA. Yes the IeSF is not famous like WCG or MLG etc, but it takes time to build a world association with hundreds of national federations, that works as one big democracy.
The members of IeSF are national federations like eSport Danmark (Denmark), SESF (Sweden), SVÖE (austria), Mindsports South Africa etc. There are 25 members AFAIK.
The IeSF 2011 World Championship is the worldcup for its member countries. Through member democracy 3 games has been choosen as official games: FIFA, AVA and SCII. For the IeSF 2011 World Championship each country will be represented by one player in FIFA and SCII, while AVA teams were found in a qualification. ex. Germany and Holland came one and two in the Euro Qualification.
So why is KeSPA involved with IeSF?
KeSPA is the korean eSport federation and they took the initiative to start IeSF back in 2007. Thus KeSPA is the korean member in IeSF. Just like BESF is the belgium member and so on.
It is up to each member nation whether or not they want to compete in the competitions held at the IeSF 2011 World Championships. This also happened in 2010 where some contries decided not to compete in WCIII. In this case - KeSPA - as the Korean member of IeSF - has decided not to compete in SCII for reason know perhaps only to KeSPA, but yes - it is probably because they wont regonize SCII due to their dispute with Blizzard, but that is a whole other discussion we shouldnt get into here.
So there you have it. That is the fact to why no korean players can participate in IeSF 2011 World Championship.
On September 28 2011 04:33 KoichiroDK wrote: HOLD THE PRESS FOR ONE SECOND...
...and get the facts straight to why this has happened.
The IeSF stands for "International eSport Association" an is the eSport equaliant to FIFA. Yes the IeSF is not famous like WCG or MLG etc, but it takes time to build a world association with hundreds of national federations, that works as one big democracy.
The members of IeSF are national federations like eSport Danmark (Denmark), SESF (Sweden), SVÖE (austria), Mindsports South Africa etc. There are 25 members AFAIK.
The IeSF 2011 World Championship is the worldcup for its member countries. Through member democracy 3 games has been choosen as official games: FIFA, AVA and SCII. For the IeSF 2011 World Championship each country will be represented by one player in FIFA and SCII, while AVA teams were found in a qualification. ex. Germany and Holland came one and two in the Euro Qualification.
So why is KeSPA involved with IeSF?
KeSPA is the korean eSport federation and they took the initiative to start IeSF back in 2007. Thus KeSPA is the korean member in IeSF. Just like BESF is the belgium member and so on.
It is up to each member nation whether or not they want to compete in the competitions held at the IeSF 2011 World Championships. This also happened in 2010 where some contries decided not to compete in WCIII. In this case - KeSPA - as the Korean member of IeSF - has decided not to compete in SCII for reason know perhaps only to KeSPA, but yes - it is probably because they wont regonize SCII due to their dispute with Blizzard, but that is a whole other discussion we shouldnt get into here.
So there you have it. That is the fact to why no korean players can participate in IeSF 2011 World Championship.
Cheers KoichiroDK
I mean that whole post is fine and dandy, but let's just point out that KeSPA and Blizz solved their dispute last I heard......
On September 28 2011 04:37 Diamond wrote: I mean that whole post is fine and dandy, but let's just point out that KeSPA and Blizz solved their dispute last I heard......
IeSF should've talked with gom regarding a Korean representative for sc2 (and let Kespa determine the representatives of the other games), instead of just concentrate on Kespa only. The whole situation is so ridiculous, yet I can't even laugh about it. :-/
On September 28 2011 06:21 ePAttack wrote: Wouldn't this be considered discrimination?
Is it me or does this look like a type of racism or stereotype? reason to ban somebody because of there ethnicity is kinda harsh.
It's not like ALL Koreans are amazing SC players like MVP or Nestea.
this has nothing to do with racial discrimination because it is the korean federation itself that chose not to participate. it has more to do with it's issues with Blizzard itself.
On September 28 2011 04:33 KoichiroDK wrote: HOLD THE PRESS FOR ONE SECOND...
...and get the facts straight to why this has happened.
The IeSF stands for "International eSport Association" an is the eSport equaliant to FIFA. Yes the IeSF is not famous like WCG or MLG etc, but it takes time to build a world association with hundreds of national federations, that works as one big democracy.
The members of IeSF are national federations like eSport Danmark (Denmark), SESF (Sweden), SVÖE (austria), Mindsports South Africa etc. There are 25 members AFAIK.
The IeSF 2011 World Championship is the worldcup for its member countries. Through member democracy 3 games has been choosen as official games: FIFA, AVA and SCII. For the IeSF 2011 World Championship each country will be represented by one player in FIFA and SCII, while AVA teams were found in a qualification. ex. Germany and Holland came one and two in the Euro Qualification.
So why is KeSPA involved with IeSF?
KeSPA is the korean eSport federation and they took the initiative to start IeSF back in 2007. Thus KeSPA is the korean member in IeSF. Just like BESF is the belgium member and so on.
It is up to each member nation whether or not they want to compete in the competitions held at the IeSF 2011 World Championships. This also happened in 2010 where some contries decided not to compete in WCIII. In this case - KeSPA - as the Korean member of IeSF - has decided not to compete in SCII for reason know perhaps only to KeSPA, but yes - it is probably because they wont regonize SCII due to their dispute with Blizzard, but that is a whole other discussion we shouldnt get into here.
So there you have it. That is the fact to why no korean players can participate in IeSF 2011 World Championship.
Cheers KoichiroDK
This post is quite accurate and sums up the situation. As for KeSPA vs Blizzard, they solved their debate over BW, but Blizzard still retains too much direct control over SC2 for KeSPA to recognize it, hence there are no Progaming licenses for SC2 etc.
This event needs to be boycotted one of the best parts about trading BW in for SC2 was we were able to leave kespa to rot. The fact they are even involved in this is sickening kespa is not democratic and doesnt deserve to be representing korea when they provide no representation for sc2 in the first place. I love BW but i hate kespa, blizzard should have gone for the jugular on kespa when they had the chance. korean esports association more like killing esports association.
kespa truly knows how to bring out the best in nerd rage aah!
Starting with no LAN, Blizzard has been disappointing me month after month, and now their refusal to cooperate with Kespa has now boiled over into this. Kespa is definitely the lesser of the two evils.
From reading this thread, I reiterate what a lot of people said that a lot of the Kespa hate here is unjustified. Even when people talk about the "pp incident" and bash kespa for it, I commend it for making a concrete rule and sticking to it. Some people call it draconian, I call it "BW is serious business."
Since people have been talking about Happy (the russian player) in this thread, it's actually sLivko who will represent Russia in the IeSF 2011 World Championship, contrary to what was written on the Liquipedia article.
Sorry about the incorrect info, finding clear information about the IeSF qualifiers is not easy >.<
I don't understand why people are hating on Kespa. They don't control SC2 and it's the only game in Korea where the players don't have an official Kespa progaming license. They aren't obligated to do shit.
i dont get the kespa hate in this particular case either... they are not connected to sc2 in any way and they are korean representative for this tournament. So what they will send their bw players to play sc2?
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
Trying to go around Kespa workin reaaaal well for Blizzard. Whatever the $ license fee they get from Gom; they could've gotten 10x more if they just worked with Kespa, and not completely flop in the biggest E-sport nation in the world.
If Kespa is funding the IeSF they should just let Bw get play so we get something to watch between PL and till the next OSL .
GOM is more friendly to the international market and viewers. If KESPA was in charge i doubt we have the type of korean-foreign interation we're having right now. Even WCG and OGN is ignoring KESPA and working with GOM when it comes to sc2
KeSPA had no reason so far 2 go into international market? BW was pretty much dead outside of korea so whats the point? pretty sure in SC2 this would look different if Blizzard wouldnt fuck up.
And for GOM its their only hope since SC2 fails in korea.
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
Trying to go around Kespa workin reaaaal well for Blizzard. Whatever the $ license fee they get from Gom; they could've gotten 10x more if they just worked with Kespa, and not completely flop in the biggest E-sport nation in the world.
If Kespa is funding the IeSF they should just let Bw get play so we get something to watch between PL and till the next OSL .
GOM is more friendly to the international market and viewers. If KESPA was in charge i doubt we have the type of korean-foreign interation we're having right now. Even WCG and OGN is ignoring KESPA and working with GOM when it comes to sc2
in what way has kespa ever hindered korean-foreign interaction for brood war?
On September 28 2011 04:33 KoichiroDK wrote: HOLD THE PRESS FOR ONE SECOND...
...and get the facts straight to why this has happened.
The IeSF stands for "International eSport Association" an is the eSport equaliant to FIFA. Yes the IeSF is not famous like WCG or MLG etc, but it takes time to build a world association with hundreds of national federations, that works as one big democracy.
The members of IeSF are national federations like eSport Danmark (Denmark), SESF (Sweden), SVÖE (austria), Mindsports South Africa etc. There are 25 members AFAIK.
The IeSF 2011 World Championship is the worldcup for its member countries. Through member democracy 3 games has been choosen as official games: FIFA, AVA and SCII. For the IeSF 2011 World Championship each country will be represented by one player in FIFA and SCII, while AVA teams were found in a qualification. ex. Germany and Holland came one and two in the Euro Qualification.
So why is KeSPA involved with IeSF?
KeSPA is the korean eSport federation and they took the initiative to start IeSF back in 2007. Thus KeSPA is the korean member in IeSF. Just like BESF is the belgium member and so on.
It is up to each member nation whether or not they want to compete in the competitions held at the IeSF 2011 World Championships. This also happened in 2010 where some contries decided not to compete in WCIII. In this case - KeSPA - as the Korean member of IeSF - has decided not to compete in SCII for reason know perhaps only to KeSPA, but yes - it is probably because they wont regonize SCII due to their dispute with Blizzard, but that is a whole other discussion we shouldnt get into here.
So there you have it. That is the fact to why no korean players can participate in IeSF 2011 World Championship.
Cheers KoichiroDK
Very informative post, thanks a lot. I had no idea how IeSF worked. Basically other countries than Korea picked SC2. Korean members of IeSF is Kespa and Kespa doesn't have a SC2 branch, so they don't send players. It makes sense.
On September 28 2011 04:33 KoichiroDK wrote: HOLD THE PRESS FOR ONE SECOND...
...and get the facts straight to why this has happened.
The IeSF stands for "International eSport Association" an is the eSport equaliant to FIFA. Yes the IeSF is not famous like WCG or MLG etc, but it takes time to build a world association with hundreds of national federations, that works as one big democracy.
The members of IeSF are national federations like eSport Danmark (Denmark), SESF (Sweden), SVÖE (austria), Mindsports South Africa etc. There are 25 members AFAIK.
The IeSF 2011 World Championship is the worldcup for its member countries. Through member democracy 3 games has been choosen as official games: FIFA, AVA and SCII. For the IeSF 2011 World Championship each country will be represented by one player in FIFA and SCII, while AVA teams were found in a qualification. ex. Germany and Holland came one and two in the Euro Qualification.
So why is KeSPA involved with IeSF?
KeSPA is the korean eSport federation and they took the initiative to start IeSF back in 2007. Thus KeSPA is the korean member in IeSF. Just like BESF is the belgium member and so on.
It is up to each member nation whether or not they want to compete in the competitions held at the IeSF 2011 World Championships. This also happened in 2010 where some contries decided not to compete in WCIII. In this case - KeSPA - as the Korean member of IeSF - has decided not to compete in SCII for reason know perhaps only to KeSPA, but yes - it is probably because they wont regonize SCII due to their dispute with Blizzard, but that is a whole other discussion we shouldnt get into here.
So there you have it. That is the fact to why no korean players can participate in IeSF 2011 World Championship.
Cheers KoichiroDK
Very informative post, thanks a lot. I had no idea how IeSF worked. Basically other countries than Korea picked SC2. Korean members of IeSF is Kespa and Kespa doesn't have a SC2 branch, so they don't send players. It makes sense.
True world championship will be WCG.
Actually, neither ESWC nor IeSF nor WCG are that high level. But WCG is the closest, or at least was until they removed BW. Yeah, BW competition was never that fierce, but having Flash-Kal-Jaedong as 1-2-3 is better than having 3 random koreans (them all being Terran most probably, they have been doing well in WCG Korea) as 1-2-3.
On September 27 2011 01:14 SafeAsCheese wrote: It wouldn't be a serious tourney anyway
On September 28 2011 04:33 KoichiroDK wrote: HOLD THE PRESS FOR ONE SECOND...
...and get the facts straight to why this has happened.
The IeSF stands for "International eSport Association" an is the eSport equaliant to FIFA. Yes the IeSF is not famous like WCG or MLG etc, but it takes time to build a world association with hundreds of national federations, that works as one big democracy.
The members of IeSF are national federations like eSport Danmark (Denmark), SESF (Sweden), SVÖE (austria), Mindsports South Africa etc. There are 25 members AFAIK.
The IeSF 2011 World Championship is the worldcup for its member countries. Through member democracy 3 games has been choosen as official games: FIFA, AVA and SCII. For the IeSF 2011 World Championship each country will be represented by one player in FIFA and SCII, while AVA teams were found in a qualification. ex. Germany and Holland came one and two in the Euro Qualification.
So why is KeSPA involved with IeSF?
KeSPA is the korean eSport federation and they took the initiative to start IeSF back in 2007. Thus KeSPA is the korean member in IeSF. Just like BESF is the belgium member and so on.
It is up to each member nation whether or not they want to compete in the competitions held at the IeSF 2011 World Championships. This also happened in 2010 where some contries decided not to compete in WCIII. In this case - KeSPA - as the Korean member of IeSF - has decided not to compete in SCII for reason know perhaps only to KeSPA, but yes - it is probably because they wont regonize SCII due to their dispute with Blizzard, but that is a whole other discussion we shouldnt get into here.
So there you have it. That is the fact to why no korean players can participate in IeSF 2011 World Championship.
Cheers KoichiroDK
Very informative post, thanks a lot. I had no idea how IeSF worked. Basically other countries than Korea picked SC2. Korean members of IeSF is Kespa and Kespa doesn't have a SC2 branch, so they don't send players. It makes sense.
True world championship will be WCG.
Actually, neither ESWC nor IeSF nor WCG are that high level. But WCG is the closest, or at least was until they removed BW. Yeah, BW competition was never that fierce, but having Flash-Kal-Jaedong as 1-2-3 is better than having 3 random koreans (them all being Terran most probably, they have been doing well in WCG Korea) as 1-2-3.
only 1/2 the players on the list are even "knowns"
That's not really fair. Would you call the Olympics "not a serious tourney" just because some of the participants can't perform even close to the best in their sports? I'm not saying it's a serious tournament or not but rather you have to use a different measuring stick when it comes to global tournaments.
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
Trying to go around Kespa workin reaaaal well for Blizzard. Whatever the $ license fee they get from Gom; they could've gotten 10x more if they just worked with Kespa, and not completely flop in the biggest E-sport nation in the world.
If Kespa is funding the IeSF they should just let Bw get play so we get something to watch between PL and till the next OSL .
GOM is more friendly to the international market and viewers. If KESPA was in charge i doubt we have the type of korean-foreign interation we're having right now. Even WCG and OGN is ignoring KESPA and working with GOM when it comes to sc2
in what way has kespa ever hindered korean-foreign interaction for brood war?
How are those english commentated MSL streams going for you?
Exactly. Ball and biGs are in the scale of CombatEX and RapDawg.
Not sure if you have ever seen bigs play, but this guy is actually pretty solid and beat very good players in the past. He was a decent warcraft 3 player as well...
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
Trying to go around Kespa workin reaaaal well for Blizzard. Whatever the $ license fee they get from Gom; they could've gotten 10x more if they just worked with Kespa, and not completely flop in the biggest E-sport nation in the world.
If Kespa is funding the IeSF they should just let Bw get play so we get something to watch between PL and till the next OSL .
GOM is more friendly to the international market and viewers. If KESPA was in charge i doubt we have the type of korean-foreign interation we're having right now. Even WCG and OGN is ignoring KESPA and working with GOM when it comes to sc2
in what way has kespa ever hindered korean-foreign interaction for brood war?
How are those english commentated MSL streams going for you?
What are you trying to talk about here? You realize restreams from OGN at least (and likely MBC too) are accepted? The Chinese casted stream was officially allowed and they are well aware of the restreaming and are fine with it. The Korean streams are just more popular than any English restream... unless it was maybe Sayle i wouldn't watch any English stream myself, the original is better atmosphere.
But keep up the dumb KeSPA hate; meanwhile they secured new sponsors for BW and everything should be stable and fine. While over in SC2 they need to have a forced Code A/S format for the GSL to try and help consistency and keep players in and earning money when there's a lack of salaries. Great situation, thanks Blizz for shackling SC2 down to Gretech instead of letting KeSPA take it and immediately increase exposure and popularity.
KeSPA is an easy target for people when Blizzard is creating the entire situation in the first place. What kind of plan for expansion of eSports, locks out the governing body of it in the biggest eSports country around? Instead of simply leaving things alone and letting KeSPA give SC2 massive free publicity, TV exposure, sponsors willing to put more money in and fund bigger projects; they gave to Gretech so they can maintain control. Blizzard isn't an eSports company they are a game developer, why should they even be directly involved, isn't it a conflict of interest? Their goal is to sell games not be running a professional sports organization and leagues. Their level of involvement isn't clear but it's damn obvious the contract with Gretech gives Blizzard control over everything if they wish to intervene.
But that's at the loss of everyone else isn't it, and what potentially the scene could have been already. Just think a bit deeper who your anger should be directed at. Not at KeSPA for not getting involved with a game that they are deliberately being shut out of, and even having their main leagues attempted to be shut down just to try and force the sequel on people.
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
Trying to go around Kespa workin reaaaal well for Blizzard. Whatever the $ license fee they get from Gom; they could've gotten 10x more if they just worked with Kespa, and not completely flop in the biggest E-sport nation in the world.
If Kespa is funding the IeSF they should just let Bw get play so we get something to watch between PL and till the next OSL .
GOM is more friendly to the international market and viewers. If KESPA was in charge i doubt we have the type of korean-foreign interation we're having right now. Even WCG and OGN is ignoring KESPA and working with GOM when it comes to sc2
in what way has kespa ever hindered korean-foreign interaction for brood war?
How are those english commentated MSL streams going for you?
What are you trying to talk about here? You realize restreams from OGN at least (and likely MBC too) are accepted? The Chinese casted stream was officially allowed and they are well aware of the restreaming and are fine with it. The Korean streams are just more popular than any English restream... unless it was maybe Sayle i wouldn't watch any English stream myself, the original is better atmosphere.
But keep up the dumb KeSPA hate; meanwhile they secured new sponsors for BW and everything should be stable and fine. While over in SC2 they need to have a forced Code A/S format for the GSL to try and help consistency and keep players in and earning money when there's a lack of salaries. Great situation, thanks Blizz for shackling SC2 down to Gretech instead of letting KeSPA take it and immediately increase exposure and popularity.
Mate I quoted a reply that said kespa had never hindered korean-foreign relations in a direct reply about international market and viewers.
I couldn't care less what companies are doing what.
SC2 has english commentary, BW does not, there for in simple terms the international market and viewers are treated better in regards to SC2
Ok well if that was your only point, then there is English commentary sometimes and nobody hardly watches it. So i hardly think it's likely for MBC/OGN to do anything official, and it's nothing to do with KeSPA anyway. I don't expect us to be treated like anything when it's a total niche. Allowing restreaming for us is good enough.
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title. Link 1Link 2
Trying to go around Kespa workin reaaaal well for Blizzard. Whatever the $ license fee they get from Gom; they could've gotten 10x more if they just worked with Kespa, and not completely flop in the biggest E-sport nation in the world.
If Kespa is funding the IeSF they should just let Bw get play so we get something to watch between PL and till the next OSL .
GOM is more friendly to the international market and viewers. If KESPA was in charge i doubt we have the type of korean-foreign interation we're having right now. Even WCG and OGN is ignoring KESPA and working with GOM when it comes to sc2
in what way has kespa ever hindered korean-foreign interaction for brood war?
How are those english commentated MSL streams going for you?
What are you trying to talk about here? You realize restreams from OGN at least (and likely MBC too) are accepted? The Chinese casted stream was officially allowed and they are well aware of the restreaming and are fine with it. The Korean streams are just more popular than any English restream... unless it was maybe Sayle i wouldn't watch any English stream myself, the original is better atmosphere.
But keep up the dumb KeSPA hate; meanwhile they secured new sponsors for BW and everything should be stable and fine. While over in SC2 they need to have a forced Code A/S format for the GSL to try and help consistency and keep players in and earning money when there's a lack of salaries. Great situation, thanks Blizz for shackling SC2 down to Gretech instead of letting KeSPA take it and immediately increase exposure and popularity.
Mate I quoted a reply that said kespa had never hindered korean-foreign relations in a direct reply about international market and viewers.
I couldn't care less what companies are doing what.
SC2 has english commentary, BW does not, there for in simple terms the international market and viewers are treated better in regards to SC2
Still no english commentary is hardly and example of "hindering" so your way off base anyway. Streams VODs it's all free...
Pretty stupid move by kespa, big sponsors paying for a tounament and shit like this happens, ruining esports. Maybe blessing in disguise though foreign player have a more global appeal
Kespa Should not get involved, they have nothing to do with sc2 and from the lawsuits they receive from blizzard earlier, they should not bother. They have bigger problems to worry about seeing as they are the pillar of bw and it may/may not collapse based on if they can find sponsors for new teams. Let Gretech do this job
Mate I quoted a reply that said kespa had never hindered korean-foreign relations in a direct reply about international market and viewers.
I couldn't care less what companies are doing what.
SC2 has english commentary, BW does not, there for in simple terms the international market and viewers are treated better in regards to SC2
So why did you quote the guy that said kespa had never hindered korean-foreign relations?
You've just shown that Kespa doesn't cater to the international community, which they don't since they are the Korean esports players association.
They've been perfectly fine with having restreams in English in the past, so it's not like they are actively stopping or hindering people from making them, there just so happens to be very little demand for it even in the foreign bw scene, since quite frankly the Korean commentators are better even if you can't understand a word they are saying.
This is akin to saying, how are your Swahili, Hebrew and Hindu GSL restreams working out for you? OMG! GOM must be hindering the growth of esports internationally! No, they just happen not to cater to those markets (which probably have very little demand anyway).
GOM caters to a market that has great demand for English commentary, and Kespa caters to a market that has great demand for Korean(and really only Korean) commentary. Neither are hindering anything outside what they cater for.
Mate I quoted a reply that said kespa had never hindered korean-foreign relations in a direct reply about international market and viewers.
I couldn't care less what companies are doing what.
SC2 has english commentary, BW does not, there for in simple terms the international market and viewers are treated better in regards to SC2
So why did you quote the guy that said kespa had never hindered korean-foreign relations?
You've just shown that Kespa doesn't cater to the international community, which they don't since they are the Korean esports players association.
They've been perfectly fine with having restreams in English in the past, so it's not like they are actively stopping or hindering people from making them, there just so happens to be very little demand for it even in the foreign bw scene, since quite frankly the Korean commentators are better even if you can't understand a word they are saying.
This is akin to saying, how are your Swahili, Hebrew and Hindu GSL restreams working out for you? OMG! GOM must be hindering the growth of esports internationally! No, they just happen not to cater to those markets (which probably have very little demand anyway).
GOM caters to a market that has great demand for English commentary, and Kespa caters to a market that has great demand for Korean(and really only Korean) commentary. Neither are hindering anything outside what they cater for.
I agree with you. But just one thing, KeSPA stands for Korean eSports Association, not players association.
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title
Can someone please explain what this actually means?
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title
Can someone please explain what this actually means?
Thx ^_^
Blizzard gave Gretech, the owner of GOM, exclusive SC2 rights in Korea for 2 years. If anyone wants to broadcast Korean SC2 , they need permission from Gretech. Dunno what this has to do with KeSpa tho.
Edit:
IeSF seems to have two problems. No permission from GOM and they fucked up and chose Kespa to choose Korean players when Kespa doesn't have any SC2 players and isn't even allowed to oversee the game.
On September 29 2011 00:05 Warlord_Master wrote: Kespa Should not get involved, they have nothing to do with sc2 and from the lawsuits they receive from blizzard earlier, they should not bother. They have bigger problems to worry about seeing as they are the pillar of bw and it may/may not collapse based on if they can find sponsors for new teams. Let Gretech do this job
Kespa is doing exactly what your saying...not getting involved =S. Kespa: There will be no korean SC2 rep because we do not have any SC2 progamers contacted. THATS IT.
DailyEsports is reporting that IeSF hasn't reached SC2 licencing agreement with Gretech yet. IeSF is considering switching SC2 from official title to exhibition title
Can someone please explain what this actually means?
Thx ^_^
Blizzard gave Gretech, the owner of GOM, exclusive SC2 rights in Korea for 2 years. If anyone wants to broadcast Korean SC2 , they need permission from Gretech. Dunno what this has to do with KeSpa tho.
Edit:
IeSF seems to have two problems. No permission from GOM and they fucked up and chose Kespa to choose Korean players when Kespa doesn't have any SC2 players and isn't even allowed to oversee the game.
I don't think this is accurate. From what i've gather by listening to TL members more in the know ^^. Is that IeSF is like WCG and Kespa is Korea. Kespa(Korea) has no SC2 progamers thus there will be no Korean SC2 rep. Just as there is no Somali kart rider rep.
Deathfate won the qualifer in Spain by W.O,the player he had to face in the final was Wizards.LoLvsxD. (Who have the best ZvZ in Spain) LoLvsxD wanted to PP the match for 30minuts,but "DeathForfeit" refused to PP the match (When he was in a "PRO-House" here in Spain playing 24/7)
On September 29 2011 19:05 -WizardsIeZa- wrote: Deathfate won the qualifer in Spain by W.O,the player he had to face in the final was Wizards.LoLvsxD. (Who have the best ZvZ in Spain) LoLvsxD wanted to PP the match for 30minuts,but "DeathForfeit" refused to PP the match (When he was in a "PRO-House" here in Spain playing 24/7)
What a disgrace.
I agree, it's a disgrace. The spanish tournament organizers should have disqualified Wizards.LoLvsxD without asking Deathfate in the first place. It's not his job to run a tournament only to play in it. It is his job to be present on time and to play games. Since only one of the players in the final managed that it makes sense Deathfate qualified for the grand finals and Wizards.LoLvsxD didn't.
But I'm sure you aren't biased in the slightest... :/
I think Brazil will have a player in this tournament. Though there was no qualify, I think the Brazilian organization (CBEC) affiliated to IeSF invited the player KT.Reason. He also is the player that KT (Keyd Team) choose to send to MLG Orlando.
Sad that there was no qualify in Brazil, but I agree that Reason is the most prepared brazilian player currently.
On September 29 2011 20:23 GeLouKo wrote: I think Brazil will have a player in this tournament. Though there was no qualify, I think the Brazilian organization (CBEC) affiliated to IeSF invited the player KT.Reason. He also is the player that KT (Keyd Team) choose to send to MLG Orlando.
Sad that there was no qualify in Brazil, but I agree that Reason is the most prepared brazilian player currently.
Fuck KeSPA and their bureaucratic bullshit. There is no reason to treat a game that is growing in popularity, is more popular globally, and eventually will replace SC:BW... I mean come on we are seeing it happen to boxing now that MMA is so popular. Same thing will happen.
On September 30 2011 14:44 P0ckets wrote: Fuck KeSPA and their bureaucratic bullshit. There is no reason to treat a game that is growing in popularity, is more popular globally, and eventually will replace SC:BW... I mean come on we are seeing it happen to boxing now that MMA is so popular. Same thing will happen.
Did you even read the thread? This was never KeSPA's fault in the first place. IESF asking them to choose sc2 players is like asking FIFA to decide on seeds to the next Wimbledon. It's not really any of their business.
As for sc2 replacing BW, or MMA replacing boxing, thats just ridiculous, it's like saying soccer will replace american football because it's more popular globally and growing in popularity. They are completely different games, the only reason SC2 is even affiliated with BW is that blizzard decided to chuck SC in front of SC2 instead of giving it some other name. You can't replace any one of them with the other. One might outlive the other, but being so completely different, replace is basically impossible.
On September 30 2011 14:44 P0ckets wrote: Fuck KeSPA and their bureaucratic bullshit. There is no reason to treat a game that is growing in popularity, is more popular globally, and eventually will replace SC:BW... I mean come on we are seeing it happen to boxing now that MMA is so popular. Same thing will happen.
Did you even read the thread? This was never KeSPA's fault in the first place. IESF asking them to choose sc2 players is like asking FIFA to decide on seeds to the next Wimbledon. It's not really any of their business.
As for sc2 replacing BW, or MMA replacing boxing, thats just ridiculous, it's like saying soccer will replace american football because it's more popular globally and growing in popularity. They are completely different games, the only reason SC2 is even affiliated with BW is that blizzard decided to chuck SC in front of SC2 instead of giving it some other name. You can't replace any one of them with the other. One might outlive the other, but being so completely different, replace is basically impossible.
You win the thread. Truely the best argument I've seen against my stance and you have changed my mind.
Doesn't seem like it. According to this post IEF stands for International E-sports Festival and is taking place in Yong-in City. The IeSF stands for International E-Sports Federation and is taking place in Andong City.
It is getting frustrating trying to find information about the IeSF, the official website (even the Korean one) is not updated at all. Through the good people that organized the American qualifier I have the original schedule for the tournament:
Group Stage: from Friday, Oct 07 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) to Friday, Oct 07 9:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) Playoffs: from Saturday, Oct 08 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) to Saturday, Oct 08 7:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) Grand Final: Sunday, Oct 09 4:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
It is a shame this tournament is going to be impossible to follow. Having just one player from every country and 40 different countries participating makes this a very unique tournament in our SC2 tournament scene. No coverage ruined what could have been a great jump-start for many nations with small/undeveloped Starcraft communities.
On September 30 2011 16:36 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 30 2011 14:44 P0ckets wrote: Fuck KeSPA and their bureaucratic bullshit. There is no reason to treat a game that is growing in popularity, is more popular globally, and eventually will replace SC:BW... I mean come on we are seeing it happen to boxing now that MMA is so popular. Same thing will happen.
Did you even read the thread? This was never KeSPA's fault in the first place. IESF asking them to choose sc2 players is like asking FIFA to decide on seeds to the next Wimbledon. It's not really any of their business.
As for sc2 replacing BW, or MMA replacing boxing, thats just ridiculous, it's like saying soccer will replace american football because it's more popular globally and growing in popularity. They are completely different games, the only reason SC2 is even affiliated with BW is that blizzard decided to chuck SC in front of SC2 instead of giving it some other name. You can't replace any one of them with the other. One might outlive the other, but being so completely different, replace is basically impossible.
You win the thread. Truely the best argument I've seen against my stance and you have changed my mind.
KeSPA is an ass but it's their right to do this.
That being said, as an SC2 fan I'm mad at IESF. But they probably have an agreement with KeSPA in exchange for some kind of support from KeSPA, so it's not like they can just ask someone else to pick Korean SC2 players.
i think today its the opening ceremocies plus welcome parties and VIP stuff. srsly this is the weirdest tour i ev ever met. no info no updates no stream no calendar event shitty official site . its a shame cuz ppl from countries like greece have unique representatives and prolly wont hace the opportunity to see their country fighting to sth international. IeSF is either a joke or they just dont care at all. Even sc2 on their official site is not written as exhibition or official title.
EPT
IeSF 2011 World Championship
