On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
PL/OSL/MSL are professional leagues, and players are paid a salary exactly for the purpose of playing in those 3 leagues
People bitch about Pro-players being treated as slaves and then want more leagues out of them?
Those organizations dont control the salary, the coaches and managers of each team do. And no, it's because KeSPA and Gom couldn't come to an agreement. And I never said they were treated as slaves. I think Im done posting in this thread because it seems that the people defending KeSPA because its really the only thing keeping BW alive and therefore it shouldn't receive any criticism for its "valiant" efforts. Therefore any thing negative I say about KeSPA was either wrong (because KeSPA told you different) or doesnt matter because "its done more good then bad" Unfortunately keeping BW alive doesn't mean denying SC2, even though it seems that you guys think it's necessary to only have one or the other.
Teams pulled out gradually in the Gom tournament so you are wrong. It was widely accepted that it was too much workload, Gom was not even practiced for it was a total afterthought. The decision was a correct one. Now the MSL is potentially gone NOW would be the time for another tournament. Not forcing one into an already extremely tough schedule. Anyone who actually followed BW (not you obviously) could tell you that it was inevitable.
KeSPA didn't tell anyone anything really did they? I don't even remember any particular press release from them. It's you who sounds like they have been spoonfed an opinion without any real insight or thought on the situation. You signed up here in 2011 and you are trying to tell us about history and what did or did not happen. But please, keep trying to revise history to fit your pre-existing idea. The only people denying SC2 from expansion in Korea is Blizzard. They are the ones forcing exclusivity deals and arguably getting into an area they have no need to be in. KeSPA if actually allowed would immediately include SC2. Yet you idiots keep posting the same stupid bullshit that they are ignoring it.
Also coaches and managers of the teams can't just pull money out of their sponsors pockets you realize. BW has perfectly fine salaries for it's niche, the best players are obviously paid more. If posting on forums had a salary, i'd be paid obviously a shitload more than you because you are spouting nonsense. You are the B-team poster with no salary for posting such uninformed drivel.
So now its a requirement to have been signed up on teamliquid before a certain date? KeSPA controlled Broodwar and were extremely influential on what was said. Look what happened to Nada when he moved to SC2. Saying something bad against KeSPA was career suicide as they could just prevent you from playing. I think you are the one who was spoon fed. Also calling me an idiot does not mean you're right, just in case you thought that was actually a valid point. And that's a terrible analogy btw. Because posting isnt competitive, it's to share ideas. And apparently when someone doesnt agree with yours, its ok to become angry and use personal attacks.
CJ, a member of Kespa board, let idra practice SC2 in their teamhouse, while they supplied all living expenses, despite being under contract as a BW B-teamer. So, no, Kespa did not arbitrarily decide to hate SC2. They did however pull all support once blizzard gave exclusive deal to GOM and made it clear they did not want Kespa involved in SC2. Therefore, Kespa did not field a qualifer for IeSF because they have zero responsibility in helping SC2 succeed.
On September 27 2011 07:24 infinity2k9 wrote: What happened to NaDa? He's done fine in SC2? Or did i miss the incidents were KeSPA agents stalked his every move and threatened to kill his family. When he was under contract, no of course he could not play SC2 (officially at least). He's under contract with a Brood War team, so yeah they can prevent him from playing. Then once he was out he can do whatever the fuck he likes. Where's the thing where we should 'look what happened'. NaDa had a great salary for many years even after his actual Starleague wins, by all means had a great career. So yeah, excellent example against KeSPA there: a player who did exceedingly well without the system.
he originally had all his records erased in the official kepsa logs iirc. they restored them after fans responded with outrage.
They stated it was a computer error and restored within couple days. Though I guess you can read that as "honest mistake" or "Kespa hates SC2!!!" Although Kespa did nothing on July/Boxer's profile on their website soooo I'd lean towards the former and not the latter.
On September 27 2011 07:24 infinity2k9 wrote: What happened to NaDa? He's done fine in SC2? Or did i miss the incidents were KeSPA agents stalked his every move and threatened to kill his family. When he was under contract, no of course he could not play SC2 (officially at least). He's under contract with a Brood War team, so yeah they can prevent him from playing. Then once he was out he can do whatever the fuck he likes. Where's the thing where we should 'look what happened'. NaDa had a great salary for many years even after his actual Starleague wins, by all means had a great career. So yeah, excellent example against KeSPA there: a player who did exceedingly well without the system.
And nah i'm angry it's always funny seeing SC2 people fall over themselves to see who can make the most uninformed comments.
All his records were erased. Like being in the top 30 for 87 months. This proves that, the only point you responded to, you had no knowledge on even though you're obviously a "KeSPA historian and expert". And dont make this a "SC2 vs Broodwar" debate.
On September 27 2011 05:21 KatuStarcraft wrote: This looks to me like Kespa is making a power play to have SC2 teams recognize it as their governing body since the sc2con was disbanded.
This isn't possible for christs sake. KeSPA cannot be involved with SC2. Can it be said any clearer. Blizzard decided the shots here, unlike the other eSports involved. It doesn't matter if the teams all want it, KeSPA wants it or anyone wants it because they can't.
Seriously why people don't point the figure at Blizzard i don't know. KeSPA is just an easy thing for people to hate i guess. Blizz hyped up a game as a new eSports, sequel to the biggest eSport ever, in the biggest eSport nation in the world, and deciding to fucking try and cut out the government-supported governing body of eSports. An organization which has bought nothing but MASSIVE free publicity to Blizzard. It's a mind boggling stupid strategy for the sake of what exactly? More control over Gretech and some puny licensing fee's? Why would partial or full developer control over eSports even be a good thing in the first place. It worked very very well before without them getting involved.
Are you serious? The only reason its brought "publicity" is because of all the stupid decisions they've made. Its common knowledge the KeSPA has been a huge detriment to almost everything in broodwar. If you think the only thing kespa would impose is "puny licensing fees" and "more control over gretech" you are sadly mistaken.
You have no idea what Kespa is if you think its "common knowledge" that Kespa has been a huge detriment to BW.
Hint: The members of Kespa, fund the teamhouses, pay the players, and find sponsors for the PL, OSL, MSL.
But we need none of those for SC2 obviously, I'm sure Blizz will be happy to pay for all those things.
The salaries were unevenly distributed, (some barely made any), funding teamhouses so they could excert influence on who plays for what team, and they also ignored and ruined other tournaments leagues, such as why you only mentioned 3.
Hey guess what, SC2 pros have even more uneven distribution (Gasp! most of them don't even get paid, some of them even have negative income)
Do you see people yelling at FIFA/NFL/NHL for uneven distribution of income, especially given pro-sports have 100000x more money floating around? No? Then why should Kespa?
Also, did you know GOM BW died, because the teams said the work load between OSL/MSL/PL was too much? Not because Kespa arbitrarily decided that they hate foreigners.
PL/OSL/MSL are professional leagues, and players are paid a salary exactly for the purpose of playing in those 3 leagues
People bitch about Pro-players being treated as slaves and then want more leagues out of them?
Those organizations dont control the salary, the coaches and managers of each team do. And no, it's because KeSPA and Gom couldn't come to an agreement. And I never said they were treated as slaves. I think Im done posting in this thread because it seems that the people defending KeSPA because its really the only thing keeping BW alive and therefore it shouldn't receive any criticism for its "valiant" efforts. Therefore any thing negative I say about KeSPA was either wrong (because KeSPA told you different) or doesnt matter because "its done more good then bad" Unfortunately keeping BW alive doesn't mean denying SC2, even though it seems that you guys think it's necessary to only have one or the other.
Teams pulled out gradually in the Gom tournament so you are wrong. It was widely accepted that it was too much workload, Gom was not even practiced for it was a total afterthought. The decision was a correct one. Now the MSL is potentially gone NOW would be the time for another tournament. Not forcing one into an already extremely tough schedule. Anyone who actually followed BW (not you obviously) could tell you that it was inevitable.
KeSPA didn't tell anyone anything really did they? I don't even remember any particular press release from them. It's you who sounds like they have been spoonfed an opinion without any real insight or thought on the situation. You signed up here in 2011 and you are trying to tell us about history and what did or did not happen. But please, keep trying to revise history to fit your pre-existing idea. The only people denying SC2 from expansion in Korea is Blizzard. They are the ones forcing exclusivity deals and arguably getting into an area they have no need to be in. KeSPA if actually allowed would immediately include SC2. Yet you idiots keep posting the same stupid bullshit that they are ignoring it.
Also coaches and managers of the teams can't just pull money out of their sponsors pockets you realize. BW has perfectly fine salaries for it's niche, the best players are obviously paid more. If posting on forums had a salary, i'd be paid obviously a shitload more than you because you are spouting nonsense. You are the B-team poster with no salary for posting such uninformed drivel.
So now its a requirement to have been signed up on teamliquid before a certain date? KeSPA controlled Broodwar and were extremely influential on what was said. Look what happened to Nada when he moved to SC2. Saying something bad against KeSPA was career suicide as they could just prevent you from playing. I think you are the one who was spoon fed. Also calling me an idiot does not mean you're right, just in case you thought that was actually a valid point. And that's a terrible analogy btw. Because posting isnt competitive, it's to share ideas. And apparently when someone doesnt agree with yours, its ok to become angry and use personal attacks.
CJ, a member of Kespa board, let idra practice SC2 in their teamhouse, while they supplied all living expenses, despite being under contract as a BW B-teamer. So, no, Kespa did not arbitrarily decide to hate SC2. They did however pull all support once blizzard gave exclusive deal to GOM and made it clear they did not want Kespa involved in SC2. Therefore, Kespa did not field a qualifer for IeSF because they have zero responsibility in helping SC2 succeed.
Is this really that difficult to understand.
I understand that perfectly and said nothing about any of that not being true. Even with you saying that I dont understand what that proves.
Well, that's really disappointing. And KeSPA is the official Korean member of the IeSF, so that will probably be the same next year, if IeSF even holds a SC2 competition.
KESPA Ruining eSports day by day... eSports should be about TOP PLAYERS competing against each other... not some BULLSHIT like Kespa acting like they got all control and saying NO SC2 we got no rights! -_-
The record erasing thing was just some kind of error (something to do with setting a player to retired i guess). KeSPA themselves released a statement saying NaDa was retiring, amicably it seems, and it did not say they was deleting records. Why would they even when other players such as July and Boxer had switched already and they hadn't done anything of the sort? NaDa's contract was up, he switched games that was it. They deleted Saviors records, you really think they would hold NaDa to the same regard while releasing a press release neutral of any bias against him or anything of the sort.
But whatever any pointless thing you want to bring up to try and prove.. whatever it is you are trying to prove. The original statement was that KeSPA is bad for BW, and now it's somehow come to this as an example? Consider me unconvinced. Referee decisions is really the only thing people have against them, and possibly the free agent rule. The free agent rule has it's fairly obvious reasons for it's existence though.
On September 27 2011 07:44 ShootingStars wrote: KESPA Ruining eSports day by day... eSports should be about TOP PLAYERS competing against each other... not some BULLSHIT like Kespa acting like they got all control and saying NO SC2 we got no rights! -_-
It's actually Kespa having no control over SC2, and not doing anything because they have no control of SC2.
Which, BTW is what most people wanted so not sure why people are angry.
only 1/2 the players on the list are even "knowns"
As people have said, they're mostly known players, albeit I don't think anyone would say that's a stellar lineup.
Maybe to people who watch the several hundred EU small tourneys like craftcups, but for people who watch major tourneys, they are new.
Not really, I only watch major tourneys and I know most names on the list. Some of the ones that people might be less familiar with are Agh: Been around for a while, pops up in MLG every now and then.especially. Softball: Made it into one of the first 3 GSLs, and now is in the NASL Osho: Qualified through BYOC for Dreamhack summer. Ciara: Got Crushed by MC in the RO32 of the TSL3 Happy: Star of this youtube video
There's still about four names that I haven't heard of and that most people haven't heard of but it's not half the field.
Why not just send Flash and have him win the tournament without any practice. Thatll just prove that BW takes more skill than sc2, and itll give their BW player some exposure. Of course i can see the problem in having Flash play sc2, but imagine the numbers they could point to in negotiations with blizzard after 200,000 people worldwide watch Flash play sc2.
only 1/2 the players on the list are even "knowns"
As people have said, they're mostly known players, albeit I don't think anyone would say that's a stellar lineup.
Maybe to people who watch the several hundred EU small tourneys like craftcups, but for people who watch major tourneys, they are new.
Not really, I only watch major tourneys and I know most names on the list. Some of the ones that people might be less familiar with are Agh: Been around for a while, pops up in MLG every now and then.especially. Softball: Made it into one of the first 3 GSLs, and now is in the NASL Osho: Qualified through BYOC for Dreamhack summer. Ciara: Got Crushed by MC in the RO32 of the TSL3 Happy: Star of this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGJP0BgvUPA
There's still about four names that I haven't heard of and that most people haven't heard of but it's not half the field.
That marine micro video might very well be the most over hyped and over rated thing out there. The use of the marines there is so inefficient compared to games you see almost weekly in tournaments. That video might be up there with artosis/Clide in terms of over hype.
On September 27 2011 07:50 mango_destroyer wrote: There is nothing more irritating than people who obviously never really followed BW, commenting on Kespa.
KeSPA so evil! ruining SC!! blah blah blah!
lol? you do realize that the korean sc2 scene is also unhappy about this? only a select few "like" what kespa did. Most people agree that this is a sad move.
kespa did some great stuff, awesome stuff, but we are not talking about what kespa has done in the years past, we are talking about this particular incident. and it just happens that this incident is just ironic and ill conceived.
On September 27 2011 07:50 mango_destroyer wrote: There is nothing more irritating than people who obviously never really followed BW, commenting on Kespa.
KeSPA so evil! ruining SC!! blah blah blah!
So KeSPA isn't ruining Korean SC2 by acting selfishly against its country's ESPORT interests? KeSPA is still butthurt that their less than diplomatic way of dealing with Blizzard has led to GOMTV being the organisation behind Korean SC2.
EPT
