EPTIPL 3: Origins - Online Qualifier #3 - Page 14
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ninjamyst
United States1903 Posts
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Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
On September 12 2011 01:17 ninjamyst wrote: will patch 1.4 be out by IPL3? Probably. Depends on what happens with all these odd changes (infestor neural, being the key recent one) | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
Edit: To be fair, then Raleigh happened, and we're clawing our way back it seems. | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
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Porcelina
United Kingdom3249 Posts
First foreigner qualifying from an IPL online qualifier. And doing it in style. Will be interesting to say the least how his year of professional Starcraft develops. So much potential. And it warms the heart to see the foreigners that are actually willing to face off with Koreans in these qualifiers do well. Much respect to all the sign ups, I will definitely be rooting a little extra for the ones that want to compete. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
On September 12 2011 02:46 Porcelina wrote: Stephano is such a hero. First foreigner qualifying from an IPL online qualifier. And doing it in style. Will be interesting to say the least how his year of professional Starcraft develops. So much potential. And it warms the heart to see the foreigners that are actually willing to face off with Koreans in these qualifiers do well. Much respect to all the sign ups, I will definitely be rooting a little extra for the ones that want to compete. One datapoint doesn't make a trend. We'll see what happens in Atlantic City. | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
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Sandro
897 Posts
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wklbishop
United States1286 Posts
On September 12 2011 02:08 Ansinjunger wrote: Stephano's good, no doubt, but remember when we all jumped the gun in TSL3 with the "foreigners are just as good" hype? Then Columbus, NASL, and Anaheim happened (lan events, not online). We'll see what happens in Atlantic City. Edit: To be fair, then Raleigh happened, and we're clawing our way back it seems. Well, the problem with Raleigh as opposed to Columbus is that Raleigh had Korean players that weren't exactly top tier mixed in with the top tier players. | ||
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Porcelina
United Kingdom3249 Posts
On September 12 2011 02:48 See.Blue wrote: One datapoint doesn't make a trend. We'll see what happens in Atlantic City. Hmm? Did not say anything about trends. All I said and that I wanted to say was that every foreigner that enter these competitions where you basically know that you will be fighting through masses of Koreans are much appreciated by myself. I am not saying that Stephano is better than Koreans in general, not even that he is better than the ones he did beat in this specific qualifier. It has been somewhat baffling to see the foreigner sign ups for these qualifiers, so when Stephano does and then goes on to qualify, beating top level Koreans, it is a fairly big deal. Just a blast to see. And yeah, we will see in Atlantic City, and I am expecting Korean dominance. But it is still fantastic to see Stephano take this. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
I just wanted to say that I feel like the two casters are always fighting against each other, and it feel a bit strange from time to time. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
Do these qualifiers also give monetary rewards to players? | ||
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ScyHigh
United Kingdom53 Posts
On September 12 2011 03:32 wklbishop wrote: Well, the problem with Raleigh as opposed to Columbus is that Raleigh had Korean players that weren't exactly top tier mixed in with the top tier players. It seems that good foreigners can beat mid-tier koreans fairly often, but only a few foreigners can take series off of the top Koreans even infrequently. Better than BW where the best foreigners couldn't even get Progaming licenses. | ||
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Porcelina
United Kingdom3249 Posts
On September 12 2011 05:23 -Archangel- wrote: What is the point of a 3rd place match in these qualifiers if only top two go to the live tournament? Do these qualifiers also give monetary rewards to players? I think an IGN rep answered that in one of the other qualifier threads. The third place match is there because the Playhem tournament structure is just a borrowed template; it has no relevance to neither invitations nor monetary rewards. The fact that the result is listed as 1-0 probably means that it was just a walkover and that the match was never meant to be played. | ||
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Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
On September 12 2011 02:22 sitromit wrote: Koreans are pulling all-nighters to play this thing. For this one MMA, July etc, had to come back from the GSL finals, start playing after midnight, and continue all the way until morning with no sleep. It makes sense. Look at the potential prize pool. Then look at past recent events (MLG) where Koreans pretty much top the charts. Now look at signups for Qualifier 3 and how much it as shrunk (maybe it was an odd weekend, dunno) It makes plenty of sense to go out of your way, get as much of your team as possible to get into the top 32. They understand that 20 dollars for a potential guaranteed 1000 dollars + a free vacation is worth it, especially since they have the ability to win it, almost uncontested. | ||
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
On September 12 2011 02:48 See.Blue wrote: One datapoint doesn't make a trend. We'll see what happens in Atlantic City. The problem is people see that what happened at the previous MLGs and NASL as evidence for Korean dominance, and I do not think that is quite true (the evidence, not the conclusion). We have to ask ourselves just who is being invited to these tournaments. The average Korean? No. I do not have time to assess this scientifically but I will just make a philosophical claim and others can follow this up. I will use other sports to make up the model that my analogy follows, and while this works with all traditional sports, I will use Broodwar since it is relevant to this case. Broodwar has four major distinctions of player categories: S CLASS (including FlasH, Jaedong, Bisu, and possibly Stork) Top A-teamers (the players that get to participate in their team's matches AND are vastly successful, without being S CLASS) A-teamers (the players that get to participate in their team's matches AND are not in the last two catagories) B-teamers (the practice partners of everyone) If we were to indicate that FlasH, Jaedong, Bisu, and Stork were not Korean but Fakestian, then this changes how we view the dominance in the scene. If the OSL seeded and held qualifiers for 28 spots, and invited four Fakestians, then we would see 28 Koreans and 4 Fakestians. We would see the 4 Fakestians do very well, and we could even see a one-two-three-four finish for them. If Fakestan has 10 other players in the same skill level as the Top A-teamers, they might try to qualify as they think they have a chance to take the whole thing. Why is this relevant? Well my claim is that even though Fakestians look unstoppable, it doesn't mean that Koreans can't compete with them. Yes they are the best, but someone has to be. If we look at the SC2 scene, I think most people will point to Koreans as the dominate set of players. However, I do not think that MLG or GSL or NASL is a good indication for either, because foreigners are constantly having to fight against the BEST Koreans. None of them will fly over to MLG or NASL if they do not sincerely think they can take everyone. As such, foreigners are constantly having to be pitted against the FlasH, Jaedong, and Bisu of the SC2 Korean world. To make matters more complicated, the foreigners never have their creme of the crop in this fight. MLG seriously lacks the top Europeans, and even more so the Chinese and Taiwanese (hi Sen). Furthermore, newer competitors, no matter how good they are, are fatigued by the long open bracket because some of the convenient spots of the pools are taken up by our B-teamers, so to speak. The NASL had MC, the at-the-time-current best Protoss and player in the world with two GSL championships. He was met by the person who got through a VERY tough open bracket that would undoubtedly decide a very VERY strong opponent. PuMa ended up beating Ret, the #1 seeded player, in the first round and eliminating the best foreigner player (seeded anyway). The rest of the way, he never had to play a non-Korean. MC only played Select and Sen, and barely beat Sen 3-2 to advance to the finals (and Sen went on to beat July for 3rd place). I would make the case that Ret and Sen were the best two players there. Ret lost first round to the eventual champion (who knows how far he could have went if the #1 seed didn't have to play the eventual best player in the tournament). Sen finished 3rd place ahead of 5 other Koreans. MLG, more of the same. Inviting the best of the best (MMA, MVP, Bomber, DRG, MC, Losira) and other top players like (Boxer, Coca, Trickster, Nada etc.) and having them fight 1-2 great foreign players and 2 subpar players is hardly fair competition (it is fair, but not fair if you want to make comparisons of skill levels between Koreans and foreigners). The last MLG, we saw that Koreans who are CONSTANT top 8/semifinalists like Nada and Trickster didn't have a very easy time in their pools. Kiwikaki and other foreigners were taking games from these guys and others were making the games look competitive. If we were to draw a conclusion, we can say the upper echelon of Koreans, the S Class or the superstars, are better than everyone, including Koreans. But all the evidence points to that there ARE foreigners that can easily compete with the TOP Koreans and provide competitive matches. There is evidence of this (and only this) in every tournament. We can also argue that the best 3 Koreans are also the best 3 players in the world, which is an assertion that I would never argue against (or try to disprove, it is almost obvious). But to say that the top 3 Koreans can dominate a tournament without the best of the best foreigners implies that Koreans are levels ahead of foreigners is silly. Note that I am not talking about numbers. Yes, there is a large number of top Koreans compared to the number of top foreigners. And no, we do not have a player that can compete with MVP. Apparently, though, neither does Korea. It is also notable to say that he doesn't quite lose very often, but out of the last 3 map losses, one of which was to QXC. What do we take from all of this? If a Korean comes to MLG Orlando or IPL 3 and wins, it doesn't mean that foreigners are outdone by Koreans. It means that the foreigners that played him were outdone by him. | ||
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Seiferz
United States640 Posts
the trend is there, it's just really hard to sift through so many matches. | ||
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Tehs Tehklz
United States330 Posts
Also, after Puzzle vs. Polt game 1, we now know why MKP didn't build the bunker versus Trickster in the Up/Down matches, haha. EDIT: Are the brackets for this thing wrong? I don't even see MKP or Polt on there? Am I just very confused...? | ||
Alex.IGN
United States1050 Posts
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On September 12 2011 09:08 Tehs Tehklz wrote: Well, MKP certainly MarineKing-ed his matches against Stephano. I haven't seen Stephano's other matches, yet, but I am going to assume he played much better against other people, because anyone but MKP would have 2-0'ed him pretty quick in those matches. Also, after Puzzle vs. Polt game 1, we now know why MKP didn't build the bunker versus Trickster in the Up/Down matches, haha. EDIT: Are the brackets for this thing wrong? I don't even see MKP or Polt on there? Am I just very confused...? This is for the third qualifier, you're probably thinking of the second. But you should check out who Stephano got lucky against this week. | ||
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