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Balance whine equals ban; good posting equals happy community and moderator |
On September 07 2011 19:22 Brett wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 19:15 Dommk wrote:On September 07 2011 19:13 Brett wrote:On September 07 2011 19:10 Dommk wrote:On September 07 2011 19:08 Brett wrote:On September 07 2011 18:50 Heavenly wrote:On September 07 2011 18:47 roymarthyup wrote:
theres nothing wrong with 2basing against a fast 3rd zerg, but MC did it highly wrong
theres nothing wrong with 2basing against losiras fast third, you just gotta do it right and use the power of collossi to take your third at around the 10 minute mark. im high masters. Cool qualifications, MC is two time GSL champion and the highest earning player in the world. So what? MC played that poorly. It happens and you dont need to be a champion to understand or criticise obviously bad play. If it was something as simple as taking a faster third then why WOULDN'T he do that? The guy isn't stupid, he is still without doubt the best Protoss in Korea right now, his mechanics are amazing and he must practice with the best of the best. He isn't stupid. Did you notice I never said the kid's analysis was correct? Did I say MC was stupid? However, the fact is, MC played that game poorly. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise this fact. You can't just pass of him playing poorly as a fact, it doesn't work that way. What did he do poorly? What should he have done that you see other Protoss's do? You could say he did poorly, but I've yet to see a single Protoss do better than he has right now. Which is concerning nonetheless Make every single tech path on two bases? Build void/phoenix in reasonably large numbers and do zero damage with them as Losira takes multiple bases... Then proceed to throw his poorly constructed unit composition against a higher supply enemy with no hope of reinforcing at the same rate? I don't know if MC would have won the game even if he played 100%. But that doesn't change the fact that he made a number of mistakes in that match.
To be fair, on that map it is nearly impossible for toss to take a 3rd.
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On September 07 2011 19:23 ragnorr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 19:22 NewteN wrote:
So tired of this 'all-in' term. MC on two bases and pulled no probes. WTF he cut probes at 34, had no tech and 6 gates. Hes all in(if it dint work, he would have lost). All in is a term that dont require you to pull workers, but a tactic that if you lose the attack, you lose the game
2 bases supports more than 6 gates especially when making zealots and he had a stargate, which is tech. He was gonna do damage with that strategy no matter what.
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On September 07 2011 19:23 Dommk wrote:
lol, I can't remember the last time Protoss has won a game. All-in after all-in >_>
Fixed that for you 
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I'm just happy to see a protoss win, really...
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On September 07 2011 19:25 kusto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 19:23 Whiteman103 wrote:On September 07 2011 19:22 NewteN wrote:
So tired of this 'all-in' term. MC on two bases and pulled no probes. WTF ROFL 4 gate is a all in and you dont pull probes You can transition out of a 4gate quite often.
And be very far behind if you don't deal enough damage to justify the 4 gate, hence the term all-in. Unless we're referring to PvP, where 4 gate was a staple opening.
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So Boss. So Smart. So MC.
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Well, imo this borderlines on an all in. He would've needed the 6 gates to do a good amount of damage. If it did minimal damage, mc would've been rather far behind imo, but its pvz, p almost always play from behind economically anyways.
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On September 07 2011 19:22 NewteN wrote:
So tired of this 'all-in' term. MC on two bases and pulled no probes. WTF
You're just an idiot if you don't think that was all-in.
Well executed and effective, yes. All in? no fucking doubt about it.
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On September 07 2011 19:25 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 19:23 skrzmark wrote:On September 07 2011 19:20 MrCon wrote:
6 gates and non stop VR production, pylon on the low ground and dozen zealots warped in the high ground. is this a rebecca black reference at all? I don't even know how Rebecca Black is :o
Husky used her song for the parody song "Voidrays"
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He is allinning. All ins are part of the game. Kyrix made no attempts of scouting and deserve to just simply die
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On September 07 2011 19:23 Deekin[ wrote:
That all-in got to have like 90% win rate on that map... ridiculous
lol have an overlord there to spot for pylons = 0% win rate on that map
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On September 07 2011 19:24 Notfragile wrote:
Me all in, he drone drone drone, me win.
well said
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that was all in he had no tech and no upgrades and would have had like half the workers kyrix had lol
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On September 07 2011 19:25 kusto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 19:23 Whiteman103 wrote:On September 07 2011 19:22 NewteN wrote:
So tired of this 'all-in' term. MC on two bases and pulled no probes. WTF ROFL 4 gate is a all in and you dont pull probes You can transition out of a 4gate quite often.
Being able to transition after doing a ton of damage still made it an all in. Just like in poker, you can go all-in and win a hand, but that doesn't mean you won the table necessarily. You were still all-in to begin with.
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On September 07 2011 19:23 skrzmark wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 19:20 MrCon wrote:
6 gates and non stop VR production, pylon on the low ground and dozen zealots warped in the high ground. is this a rebecca black reference at all?
Who is Rebeca Black?
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On September 07 2011 19:23 Whiteman103 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 19:22 NewteN wrote:
So tired of this 'all-in' term. MC on two bases and pulled no probes. WTF ROFL 4 gate is a all in and you dont pull probes
Yeaaah, there's no such thing as a Protoss all-in where you pull probes...
But I still agree with the original sentiment. "Two base all in"? What happens when you trade 200/200 armies on 4 bases? Is that a 4 base all-in?
Basically, there's no definition of where the line is between all-in and...I don't know, battle? I understand how 4 gate is an 'all-in', but I consider this thing by MC a timing attack. 2 bases up and running, 6 gates + 2-3 voids: attack. Sure, stopped making probes, but if you stop making workers before 71 workers is it automatically all-in from there?
I don't know, maybe I'm just confused =/
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On September 07 2011 19:22 Hall0wed wrote:
Finally a decent stargate build. Protoss can't play straight up with stargate against zerg early on or else they lose.
nothing decent about a build that relies on the zerg not having vision in his own base.
of course it works if he is able to warp in units twice while the zerg is unaware and keeps on droning.
And it doesnt even have anything to do with stargate, you could do the same with the warp prism, and even more gates.
fact is, you rely on your enemy not scouting... it's like hiding a pylon in the enemy base and calling it a good strategy you can rely on every time :O
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On September 07 2011 19:27 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 19:23 Deekin[ wrote:
That all-in got to have like 90% win rate on that map... ridiculous lol have an overlord there to spot for pylons = 0% win rate on that map
voidray opening can easily push the overlord away and you would have to spread your creep in your main base to make queens viable
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On September 07 2011 19:26 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 19:23 ragnorr wrote:On September 07 2011 19:22 NewteN wrote:
So tired of this 'all-in' term. MC on two bases and pulled no probes. WTF he cut probes at 34, had no tech and 6 gates. Hes all in(if it dint work, he would have lost). All in is a term that dont require you to pull workers, but a tactic that if you lose the attack, you lose the game 2 bases supports more than 6 gates especially when making zealots and he had a stargate, which is tech. He was gonna do damage with that strategy no matter what.
I agree that it's not an all in, but i think the point was that 6 gates is only just sutainable for 34 probes, its not like he had 2 full saturated bases. Also, a stargate is tech but not a LOT of tech. Stargate doesn't really help much in the mid-late game (unless you have colossi etc), so I'd say tech is more like upgrades, and especially a robo for detection.
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On September 07 2011 19:27 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2011 19:23 Deekin[ wrote:
That all-in got to have like 90% win rate on that map... ridiculous lol have an overlord there to spot for pylons = 0% win rate on that map
Thats what the voidrays job is to prevent. Voidrays are pretty good against overlords I hear.
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EPT
