On August 21 2011 03:40 TimMitchell wrote: There isn't enough evidence to reprimand stealthypoo. If he gets DQ'd it's just going to make TL look bad. We should err on the side of caution and not DQ players unless there is sufficient evidence against him.
how on earth would TL look bad?
I don't think teamliquid operates like the american justice system. this is just a video game tournament. i wouldn't feel bad dqing someone for making a stupid mistake even if it was innocent. if you need bullet proof evidence to DQ someone from a gaming tournament then there might as well be no rules at all
On August 21 2011 02:50 Stealthypoo wrote: - Look, I did not stream cheat 100%
I can explain this pretty simply.
My round1 i had a bye. No matches. Round2 ihad a pvp which ended with a fast 4g. I had a long delay between my next games and had watched his stream while waiting for my round 3 which was a pvz. I closed the stream, but, left chat open and didn't notice. That's the whole story T-T
who uses popout anyways except the streamers themselves.. lmao
Correction, who uses pop-out chat when analyzing enemies game play? Which is what I ASSUME he was doing. Should I not be assuming this?
On August 21 2011 03:40 TimMitchell wrote: There isn't enough evidence to reprimand stealthypoo. If he gets DQ'd it's just going to make TL look bad. We should err on the side of caution and not DQ players unless there is sufficient evidence against him.
So he admits to watching his stream at some point, *claims* he closed it yet is still in chat and has massive APM drops during points of the game.
What more evidence do we need, a screenshot from the stream cheater himself stream cheating?
It's not wether he cheated, he broke the rules. Done.
On August 21 2011 03:40 TimMitchell wrote: There isn't enough evidence to reprimand stealthypoo. If he gets DQ'd it's just going to make TL look bad. We should err on the side of caution and not DQ players unless there is sufficient evidence against him.
Doesn't the accused own confession to being in stream's chat qualify as sufficient evidence? The case of whether he was looking at the stream or not isn't the issue. He shouldn't be in there at all and that's how he's breaking the rule.
On August 21 2011 03:18 hysterial wrote: There is 0 proof. Stop starting a Witch-Hunt. This is like that Idra/Cruncher thing. Let the TL admins analyze the replay. If their is evidence then action will be taken, if not then drop it. At this point qqing non-stop is goin to accomplish nothing. I love Dragon, but if you are actually serious about tying to win one of these tourneys(I think he is joining it more for the fun factor) you should take down the stream.
Proof has been posted.
Being in the chat doesn't mean you stream cheated, sorry.
You arent allowed to have any stream open while playing. There's proof of him being on the stream during the game in the users list.
Why the hell would you sign into chat if you were going to stream cheat?
It automatically signs you in when you start a stream if you have auto-login activated on jtv/ttv
Then let me rephrase. Why the hell would you have auto-login activated if you were going to streamcheat?
Why do killers not cover up their crimes better, your statement is, "Why would he be an idiot", which doesn't add anything to the discussion.
I hope TL just comes up with a rule that says no players can stream...PERIOD. And the casters that are casting open games have to do them off of replays. I just hate the what-ifs this brings up and I think they should cut down on the ability for people to cheat.
I'm not a fan of this solution. I'd rather go the way of computer security - have everyone know everything. In this case, how about everyone streams? It doesn't have to be high quality or high bitrate or anything, but if you have an internet connection, you can stream - and then you can open your stream so spectators and mods can see both sides of the action.
Then it is just too easy for people to use a dual monitor setup with 1 side streaming and the other side looking at his opponents stream. That isn't a good solution either.
Jesus people, i was in Dragon's stream (because he's so awesome!), and there's not definitive proof of cheating. It was a 1v1 against a pro, so he tried a blind all-in. Pros fall all the time to tta kind of cheap strategies in this kind of tournaments. And frankly, poor Dragon needed some sleep.
On August 21 2011 02:39 Alejandrisha wrote: you'd have to look at the replay. just being in chat by itself doesn't mean anything
You shouldn't be in chat in the first place (though the same argument could be made about streaming, something's gotta give).
There are plenty of times where I've been playing in a koth or something and I just mute or pause the stream when I get invited to play, and I'd be pretty annoyed if people started accusing my of streamcheating just from being in chat.
It's a shame that we even have to worry about streamcheating, but if you stream tournament games you're clearly not taking the tournament very seriously, given the high risk.
Regardless of his intention, this rule is stated pretty clearly:
- Players may not have any stream open in the background when playing.
Well fair enough, if that's the rule then they should enforce it.
All I was saying is that merely having a stream open isn't definitive proof of streamcheating the way many people were making it out to be. I'd be willing to bet that dozens of players who never stream cheat have had top 200 koth (or similar things) on pause or something while playing in it.
Everyone arguing over whether or not he cheated is missing the point. He was in his opponent's stream chat. He gets DQ'd for that alone. And if he didn't actually cheat, boo hoo, maybe next time he'll learn not to hang out in his opponent's stream chat. Same with athletes testing positive for steroids... Nobody cares that the athlete claims it was an accident. Well, fans may care. But referees don't, and shouldn't, because you let one athlete get away with it, accident or not, and you can be sure a thousand others will try to use the same excuse.
he may not have streamcheated but he did have dragon's stream open while playing. and i'm pretty sure that's against the rules and there should be punishment.
From No_creativity (stealthypoo's opponent before Dragon)
"I played Stealthypoo the game before dragon, I was streaming too. I happen to lose to a weird 6 gate 8 min 20 sec warp in 1 gas 35 probe no +1 attack/ all zelots. Just happen to drop his apm to 0 a few times. ^^ just my input."
If Teamliquid is unable to impose their own rules because they look for evidence that will never exist short of the stream cheater saying "I was watching the stream to cheat," then they should ban streaming altogether. Yes, this ruins the fun for lots of people wanting to watch players like dragon play, but if TL is unable to ban someone with so much evidence against them, then they will never ban anyone, meaning the cheaters win.
Someone please tell me what constitutes as evidence of having a stream open, because I don't think it is possible for it to become more apparent (apart from the guy admitting to it)
On August 21 2011 03:54 lulzury wrote: From No_creativity (stealthypoo's opponent before Dragon)
"I played Stealthypoo the game before dragon, I was streaming too. I happen to lose to a weird 6 gate 8 min 20 sec warp in 1 gas 35 probe no +1 attack/ all zelots. Just happen to drop his apm to 0 a few times. ^^ just my input."
Maybe he's just not that good of player? Also that little anecdote tells you nothing unless his opponent write what he did as well (or we can watch the replay). I'm sure something must have happened before the 8 min 20 sec mark.
On August 21 2011 03:57 Micket wrote: If Teamliquid is unable to impose their own rules because they look for evidence that will never exist short of the stream cheater saying "I was watching the stream to cheat," then they should ban streaming altogether. Yes, this ruins the fun for lots of people wanting to watch players like dragon play, but if TL is unable to ban someone with so much evidence against them, then they will never ban anyone, meaning the cheaters win.
Someone please tell me what constitutes as evidence of having a stream open, because I don't think it is possible for it to become more apparent (apart from the guy admitting to it)
TL Open should operate off replays or force 5 minute delay in streams. This shitstorm is why. /exit room and forget about dragon losing even though he is my hero
EPT
