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On August 21 2011 03:40 TimMitchell wrote:
There isn't enough evidence to reprimand stealthypoo. If he gets DQ'd it's just going to make TL look bad. We should err on the side of caution and not DQ players unless there is sufficient evidence against him.
TL wouldn't look at all bad for a DQ in this case. 'Erring on the side of caution' by leaving it be would just show that you can claim to be in the chat only if you get caught having a stream open and get off fine.
Having a rematch, or giving Dragon the win, is already out of the question. He accepted the loss even after seeing that his opponent was logged into his stream. What matters is giving Stealthypoo a DQ for breaking the rules.
In my opinion, in this case erring on the side of caution is handing out the DQ based on the evidence presented against Stealthypoo.
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On August 21 2011 03:46 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 03:40 TimMitchell wrote:
There isn't enough evidence to reprimand stealthypoo. If he gets DQ'd it's just going to make TL look bad. We should err on the side of caution and not DQ players unless there is sufficient evidence against him. how on earth would TL look bad? I don't think teamliquid operates like the american justice system. this is just a video game tournament. i wouldn't feel bad dqing someone for making a stupid mistake even if it was innocent. if you need bullet proof evidence to DQ someone from a gaming tournament then there might as well be no rules at all
Just because this isn't the American justice system and TL could DQ him doesn't mean they still won't look bad. It'll look bad because it'll seem like they are DQing someone with insufficient evidence in favor of a more popular player smells are worst like favoritism and at best like arbitrary unfairness.
To those asking what level of proof is sufficient, that is obviously up to those running the tournament. I'd suggest a reasonable doubt standard, which I don't think is satisfied here. After all, the only proof is that he was in chat and his APM went down sometimes. There are plenty of reasons APM can sink, not all players are constantly spamming and it might have just been during a period that required no action. As far as the being in chat, he admitted to that but said it was an accident and he didn't have the stream open. Presumably if he was a stream cheater than he wouldn't sign in using his name or at least wouldn't have admitted to it.
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Idra's ZvZ, good bad? Discuss. :p
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On August 21 2011 04:00 Puph wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 03:57 Micket wrote:
If Teamliquid is unable to impose their own rules because they look for evidence that will never exist short of the stream cheater saying "I was watching the stream to cheat," then they should ban streaming altogether. Yes, this ruins the fun for lots of people wanting to watch players like dragon play, but if TL is unable to ban someone with so much evidence against them, then they will never ban anyone, meaning the cheaters win.
Someone please tell me what constitutes as evidence of having a stream open, because I don't think it is possible for it to become more apparent (apart from the guy admitting to it) TL Open should operate off replays or force 5 minute delay in streams. This shitstorm is why. /exit room and forget about dragon losing even though he is my hero
That's the biggest problem at the moment, no solid reliable delay systems in streaming. Not yet at least. I know JTV has one in the works, but AFAIK it's not in wide use and still may be in beta? I'm not sure.
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On August 21 2011 04:02 DwmC_Foefen wrote:
Idra's ZvZ, good bad? Discuss. :p
are you glass?
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On August 21 2011 04:02 DwmC_Foefen wrote:
Idra's ZvZ, good bad? Discuss. :p
Idra's zvz seems to be pretty darn good, from what i can see in ragequit.TV. =P
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On August 21 2011 04:04 Zinnwaldite wrote:are you glass?
No I'm brick. Hi how are you doing?
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On August 21 2011 02:45 ski107 wrote:
Read: Everyone go ahead and stream cheat, since we can't prove you actually cheated and screenshots of you with the stream open aren't conclusive enough.
how i feel about this thread.
if you think there's no proof, you're basically telling people to go ahead and cheat all they want, because theres no more proof you can gather here. if somebody can cheat this blatently and people want to let them off and call it unproven, then there's really nothing to stop cheaters. _you cant find any more proof_, unless you have a camera in this guys house.
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On August 21 2011 03:54 lulzury wrote:
From No_creativity (stealthypoo's opponent before Dragon)
"I played Stealthypoo the game before dragon, I was streaming too. I happen to lose to a weird 6 gate 8 min 20 sec warp in 1 gas 35 probe no +1 attack/ all zelots. Just happen to drop his apm to 0 a few times. ^^ just my input."
Don't post this kinda stuff unless you have a replay for us to look at. While dropping to 0 apm multiple times during a game is very suspicious for all we know his opponent could have done something really weird, was scouted and prompted that attack. Anyway I won't disagree that he did have chat open and that does break one of TLs rules so proper action should be taken in that regard.
While stream cheating sucks when it happens, players take a risk when they stream themselves in tourneys. A solution would either be not allowing players to stream their FPV or setting up a stream delay. Until then I say if you're going to stream yourself playing in a tourney then do it at your own risk.
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Semis + Finals, today or tommorow ?
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On August 21 2011 04:07 DwmC_Foefen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 04:04 Zinnwaldite wrote:On August 21 2011 04:02 DwmC_Foefen wrote:
Idra's ZvZ, good bad? Discuss. :p
are you glass? No I'm brick. Hi how are you doing?
Not good,,, i want to make some food,, but the kitchen is crowded.. =/
I'm soap.. btw.. let me,, wash you.. ^_^
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Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
On August 21 2011 04:10 zYwi3c wrote:
Semis + Finals, today or tommorow ?
Today
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does anyone know when idras next match will be casted?
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So sneakypoo is getting away with cheating? Ridiculous.
How much more proof do you need/are you ever going to get, other than a screenshot from Sneakypoo himself of him Stream cheating
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On August 21 2011 04:11 Ares[Effort] wrote:Today
Awesome, thanks.
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Maintaining the integrity of the rules sometimes means innocent people get stepped on, but it's his fault for having the chat open, his fault for not reading the rules. No point in having rules if you don't enforce them.
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On August 21 2011 04:09 mrsaturn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 02:45 ski107 wrote:
Read: Everyone go ahead and stream cheat, since we can't prove you actually cheated and screenshots of you with the stream open aren't conclusive enough. how i feel about this thread. if you think there's no proof, you're basically telling people to go ahead and cheat all they want, because theres no more proof you can gather here. if somebody can cheat this blatently and people want to let them off and call it unproven, then there's really nothing to stop cheaters. _you cant find any more proof_, unless you have a camera in this guys house.
If you don't people to cheat against you during a tournament, don't fucking stream. It's that simple.
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On August 21 2011 02:50 Stealthypoo wrote:
- Look, I did not stream cheat 100%
I can explain this pretty simply.
My round1 i had a bye. No matches. Round2 ihad a pvp which ended with a fast 4g. I had a long delay between my next games and had watched his stream while waiting for my round 3 which was a pvz. I closed the stream, but, left chat open and didn't notice. That's the whole story T-T
Point 2 in the TL Open Rules:
No cheating in any way. This includes any sort of hack or illegal program and receiving messages from friends watching the stream. This also includes account sharing or playing under an ID that you did not register under.
By being in the chat room you recieved messages from people watching the stream. To me it's pretty clear that you violated the rules and are going to get disqualified.
Now I don't know if did stream snipe or read the chat during the game. If you did, then justice has been served. If you didn't, well you'll still get DQ'd but at least you yourself will know that you beat Dragon straight up, which is no easy feat.
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On August 21 2011 04:10 Zinnwaldite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 04:07 DwmC_Foefen wrote:On August 21 2011 04:04 Zinnwaldite wrote:On August 21 2011 04:02 DwmC_Foefen wrote:
Idra's ZvZ, good bad? Discuss. :p
are you glass? No I'm brick. Hi how are you doing? Not good,,, i want to make some food,, but the kitchen is crowded.. =/ I'm soap.. btw.. let me,, wash you.. ^_^
You should make a huge bowl of food and share it with everyone ^^
Also, why would you wash bricks ? o.O
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On August 21 2011 04:14 Shlomo420 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 02:50 Stealthypoo wrote:
- Look, I did not stream cheat 100%
I can explain this pretty simply.
My round1 i had a bye. No matches. Round2 ihad a pvp which ended with a fast 4g. I had a long delay between my next games and had watched his stream while waiting for my round 3 which was a pvz. I closed the stream, but, left chat open and didn't notice. That's the whole story T-T Point 2 in the TL Open Rules: Show nested quote +No cheating in any way. This includes any sort of hack or illegal program and receiving messages from friends watching the stream. This also includes account sharing or playing under an ID that you did not register under. By being in the chat room you recieved messages from people watching the stream. To me it's pretty clear that you violated the rules and are going to get disqualified. Now I don't know if did stream snipe or read the chat during the game. If you did, then justice has been served. If you didn't, well you'll still get DQ'd but at least you yourself will know that you beat Dragon straight up, which is no easy feat.
Please explain how Twitch.tv chat (especially the one in case) EVER helps someone win in any way.
If you're actually looking in the stream chat for ways to cheat then you've got other problems. The rule is clearly about battle.net messages.
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EPT
