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Cant believe theres so much hate in these threads while we're so blessed with a wonderful event, with wonderful games. Last warning, whine and insult the players or commentators? See you. |
I find it amazing that all the Koreans scored higher than any of the foreigners..
Foreigners fucking suck... IdrA was right.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 02 2011 23:44 Micket wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 15:34 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Yes, what you are saying is all true. But is it really the primary factor for making a sport big? Maybe it is. I dont think that personal engament for a player will be enough. Having players from the same country winning over and over will always remain boring for the majority of the audience. And big difference between say Korea and Brazil in football is that Brazil doesnt win 26-2 against Germany in worldchampionship finals.
If we just look on viewer numbers (would be really intresting to see how the viewer numbers changed after HuK and Naniwa got knocked out btw). Without knowing I imagine that GOM.tv has a fairly low number of viewers compared to say MLG or Dreamhack. Yet GSL has higher skill level, by far I would say, now why is that? Because there is only one nation competing and hence low interest from the rest of the world. As long as GSL is a one country show it is never going to become a large international show with the majority of the viewers coming from outside of Korea.
I know many people here think that skill is extremly important, and for many here it is, the NASL final between Puma and MC where epic for instance. But regardless, as I said above it wont make SC2 great. If you really think that a sport where players from one country humilates all other competitiors will become great (compared to a normal sport) go ahead and belive that. I dont, and I dont see what your premiss for that assumtion is either but im getting pretty tired of this discussion so sure.
I belive there is only one way that SC2 is going to be truly great and that is if the rest of the world can catch up to Korea. That will make for truly great tournaments. If the foreigners fail on the other hand and we in years from now remains where we are today, with top 6 in a international SC2 tournament is taken by one nation, I think this forum is one of the few places where SC2 will remain great. If you look at the Vods for GSL, you will notice that they all have a huge amount of views, and no, this is not from f5ing a lot. And this doesn't include the Koreans, who surpass the foreign view count by a lot. GSL has more views than the others I think.
i could be wrong but i am pretty sure that the foreign view count is a lot higher than the korean view count
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You need home grown talent to win in order to create a sustained following at home. It's proven time and time again, people enjoy a local story. Case in point, i tell my more casual SC2 friends a korean won a tournament, they say 'big woop'. I tell them a fellow canadian won dreamhack, and they're instantly getting the replays and see who this amazing 'huk' guy is.
If MLG is to grow eSports, SC2, they should rethink their invites of GSL pros. Most people relate to other people, not to a 14% better micromanagement skill. I like rooting for canadians, some people may like to root for team liquid, or for a guy from boston. There's a common thread.
It's an extremely complex endeavor trying to grow a sport, L2P has little place in that discussion.
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On August 03 2011 01:45 ashaman771 wrote:
You need home grown talent to win in order to create a sustained following at home. It's proven time and time again, people enjoy a local story. Case in point, i tell my more casual SC2 friends a korean won a tournament, they say 'big woop'. I tell them a fellow canadian won dreamhack, and they're instantly getting the replays and see who this amazing 'huk' guy is.
If MLG is to grow eSports, SC2, they should rethink their invites of GSL pros. Most people relate to other people, not to a 14% better micromanagement skill. I like rooting for canadians, some people may like to root for team liquid, or for a guy from boston. There's a common thread.
It's an extremely complex endeavor trying to grow a sport, L2P has little place in that discussion.
But think about how happy everyone will be when a foreigner finally wins mlg!
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On August 03 2011 00:33 coL.drewbie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 23:44 Micket wrote:On August 02 2011 15:34 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Yes, what you are saying is all true. But is it really the primary factor for making a sport big? Maybe it is. I dont think that personal engament for a player will be enough. Having players from the same country winning over and over will always remain boring for the majority of the audience. And big difference between say Korea and Brazil in football is that Brazil doesnt win 26-2 against Germany in worldchampionship finals.
If we just look on viewer numbers (would be really intresting to see how the viewer numbers changed after HuK and Naniwa got knocked out btw). Without knowing I imagine that GOM.tv has a fairly low number of viewers compared to say MLG or Dreamhack. Yet GSL has higher skill level, by far I would say, now why is that? Because there is only one nation competing and hence low interest from the rest of the world. As long as GSL is a one country show it is never going to become a large international show with the majority of the viewers coming from outside of Korea.
I know many people here think that skill is extremly important, and for many here it is, the NASL final between Puma and MC where epic for instance. But regardless, as I said above it wont make SC2 great. If you really think that a sport where players from one country humilates all other competitiors will become great (compared to a normal sport) go ahead and belive that. I dont, and I dont see what your premiss for that assumtion is either but im getting pretty tired of this discussion so sure.
I belive there is only one way that SC2 is going to be truly great and that is if the rest of the world can catch up to Korea. That will make for truly great tournaments. If the foreigners fail on the other hand and we in years from now remains where we are today, with top 6 in a international SC2 tournament is taken by one nation, I think this forum is one of the few places where SC2 will remain great. If you look at the Vods for GSL, you will notice that they all have a huge amount of views, and no, this is not from f5ing a lot. And this doesn't include the Koreans, who surpass the foreign view count by a lot. GSL has more views than the others I think. i could be wrong but i am pretty sure that the foreign view count is a lot higher than the korean view count
You are indeed wrong.
http://ch.gomtv.com/450/28559/439177/4
That's the link for the Losira/Nestea finals with 539,000 views on the Korean site.
The English site has 104,000 views. There's also the Chinese site which I can't be bothered to dig up.
This also doesn't include live viewers I don't think, which I'd imagine are higher in Korea for time zone reasons.
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On August 03 2011 01:45 ashaman771 wrote:
You need home grown talent to win in order to create a sustained following at home. It's proven time and time again, people enjoy a local story. Case in point, i tell my more casual SC2 friends a korean won a tournament, they say 'big woop'. I tell them a fellow canadian won dreamhack, and they're instantly getting the replays and see who this amazing 'huk' guy is.
If MLG is to grow eSports, SC2, they should rethink their invites of GSL pros. Most people relate to other people, not to a 14% better micromanagement skill. I like rooting for canadians, some people may like to root for team liquid, or for a guy from boston. There's a common thread.
It's an extremely complex endeavor trying to grow a sport, L2P has little place in that discussion.
Well then again when I saw HuK win Dreamhack I was happy because he beat the Koreans to get there. If he had won in an all foreigner group I would have ignored it as a big fish in a tiny pool and most people who actually follow the game would say "good for him, call me when he beats the Koreans".
The fact is they are playing better right now and foreigners who train the same way do compete (like Huk or Idra when he was playing in Korea).
Closing off the competition to the Korean players just makes that tournament a second class competition as you have excluded what are currently the best players in the world. On the other hand keeping these tournaments open makes any foreign victory actually be a legitimate victory like Huk at Dreamhack and also gives foreign players a goal to reach (which they are much closer to than they ever were in BW).
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On August 03 2011 02:04 Sixes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 01:45 ashaman771 wrote:
You need home grown talent to win in order to create a sustained following at home. It's proven time and time again, people enjoy a local story. Case in point, i tell my more casual SC2 friends a korean won a tournament, they say 'big woop'. I tell them a fellow canadian won dreamhack, and they're instantly getting the replays and see who this amazing 'huk' guy is.
If MLG is to grow eSports, SC2, they should rethink their invites of GSL pros. Most people relate to other people, not to a 14% better micromanagement skill. I like rooting for canadians, some people may like to root for team liquid, or for a guy from boston. There's a common thread.
It's an extremely complex endeavor trying to grow a sport, L2P has little place in that discussion. Well then again when I saw HuK win Dreamhack I was happy because he beat the Koreans to get there. If he had won in an all foreigner group I would have ignored it as a big fish in a tiny pool and most people who actually follow the game would say "good for him, call me when he beats the Koreans". The fact is they are playing better right now and foreigners who train the same way do compete (like Huk or Idra when he was playing in Korea). Closing off the competition to the Korean players just makes that tournament a second class competition as you have excluded what are currently the best players in the world. On the other hand keeping these tournaments open makes any foreign victory actually be a legitimate victory like Huk at Dreamhack and also gives foreign players a goal to reach (which they are much closer to than they ever were in BW).
The hardcore are watching the tournaments now. To grow, you have to reach out to the more casual players, which there are far more of. i propose to you that with the casual crowd, second rate wouldn't even cross their mind.
Pele couldn't sell soccer in north america, and the best koreans can't sell Sc2 esports in NA either. Know the target audience you're trying to cultivate, and IMO it'll take local talent to do so.
If people only wanted to watch the best of the best, why are there stadiums full of fans for sports teams that are no where near the best. It's all about relating to the fans.
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On August 03 2011 02:19 ashaman771 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 02:04 Sixes wrote:On August 03 2011 01:45 ashaman771 wrote:
You need home grown talent to win in order to create a sustained following at home. It's proven time and time again, people enjoy a local story. Case in point, i tell my more casual SC2 friends a korean won a tournament, they say 'big woop'. I tell them a fellow canadian won dreamhack, and they're instantly getting the replays and see who this amazing 'huk' guy is.
If MLG is to grow eSports, SC2, they should rethink their invites of GSL pros. Most people relate to other people, not to a 14% better micromanagement skill. I like rooting for canadians, some people may like to root for team liquid, or for a guy from boston. There's a common thread.
It's an extremely complex endeavor trying to grow a sport, L2P has little place in that discussion. Well then again when I saw HuK win Dreamhack I was happy because he beat the Koreans to get there. If he had won in an all foreigner group I would have ignored it as a big fish in a tiny pool and most people who actually follow the game would say "good for him, call me when he beats the Koreans". The fact is they are playing better right now and foreigners who train the same way do compete (like Huk or Idra when he was playing in Korea). Closing off the competition to the Korean players just makes that tournament a second class competition as you have excluded what are currently the best players in the world. On the other hand keeping these tournaments open makes any foreign victory actually be a legitimate victory like Huk at Dreamhack and also gives foreign players a goal to reach (which they are much closer to than they ever were in BW). The hardcore are watching the tournaments now. To grow, you have to reach out to the more casual players, which there are far more of. i propose to you that with the casual crowd, second rate wouldn't even cross their mind. Pele couldn't sell soccer in north america, and the best koreans can't sell Sc2 esports in NA either. Know the target audience you're trying to cultivate, and IMO it'll take local talent to do so. If people only wanted to watch the best of the best, why are there stadiums full of fans for sports teams that are no where near the best. It's all about relating to the fans.
There are far more korean fans on TL than foreign fans from what I've seen. The majority of people actually do care about the quality of the games.
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On August 02 2011 23:38 lunchforthesky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 21:21 cheggelund wrote:On August 02 2011 16:57 4ZakeN87 wrote:
A tournament where you have people from numerous countries are competing on the top level, France, US, Australia, Ukraine, Canada, Poland, Sweden, Korea and so on.
This would also per defention mean that the average level would need to become a lot more balanced in order to achive this, also resulting in that each individual game becomes harder to predict. Not to mention the hole national aspect.
Or option two: Where we have top 10 players coming from one country, humiliating everyone else in the tournament?
If you dont think that this has any impact what so ever... then you are seriously just plain stupid.
Which is now when I think about it exactly the same thing. I have to agree with your logic. Most people posting here are pretty hard-core Starcraft fans, and we know how to appreciate excellent (that's for you Lindsey) play. However, to gain a broader audience and attract more casual fans you need more diversity than 6 Korean Terrans battling for the top 6 places.
IMHO, It does take away some excitement from the tournament when you know that many of your favorite players are only battling for a top 10-20 finish.
--Chegg Then don't base your favourite on anyone not from one country. Base it on, you know, how much you like their play. Every sport has good and bad players, you can't decide to support all the bad ones and then whine when they don't win.
Sport doesnt work like that..
In most sports alot of people are fans of alot of different teams/players and if they dont play, alot dont even watch.
I love footbal but I spend most of my time trying to watch local danish teams. I know they artn the best in the world. But it doesnt matter they danish and I have been a fan of danish football namely Brøndby since I can remember. Same with sc2 alot of people are big fans of alot of different players if 1 nation keep dominating the scene people just arnt gonna watch.
Ill bet money that as soon the western players got knocked out of MLG they lost viewers. I doubt they will release the numbers but those i spoke with did the same as me closed the stream.
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On August 03 2011 02:22 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 02:19 ashaman771 wrote:On August 03 2011 02:04 Sixes wrote:On August 03 2011 01:45 ashaman771 wrote:
You need home grown talent to win in order to create a sustained following at home. It's proven time and time again, people enjoy a local story. Case in point, i tell my more casual SC2 friends a korean won a tournament, they say 'big woop'. I tell them a fellow canadian won dreamhack, and they're instantly getting the replays and see who this amazing 'huk' guy is.
If MLG is to grow eSports, SC2, they should rethink their invites of GSL pros. Most people relate to other people, not to a 14% better micromanagement skill. I like rooting for canadians, some people may like to root for team liquid, or for a guy from boston. There's a common thread.
It's an extremely complex endeavor trying to grow a sport, L2P has little place in that discussion. Well then again when I saw HuK win Dreamhack I was happy because he beat the Koreans to get there. If he had won in an all foreigner group I would have ignored it as a big fish in a tiny pool and most people who actually follow the game would say "good for him, call me when he beats the Koreans". The fact is they are playing better right now and foreigners who train the same way do compete (like Huk or Idra when he was playing in Korea). Closing off the competition to the Korean players just makes that tournament a second class competition as you have excluded what are currently the best players in the world. On the other hand keeping these tournaments open makes any foreign victory actually be a legitimate victory like Huk at Dreamhack and also gives foreign players a goal to reach (which they are much closer to than they ever were in BW). The hardcore are watching the tournaments now. To grow, you have to reach out to the more casual players, which there are far more of. i propose to you that with the casual crowd, second rate wouldn't even cross their mind. Pele couldn't sell soccer in north america, and the best koreans can't sell Sc2 esports in NA either. Know the target audience you're trying to cultivate, and IMO it'll take local talent to do so. If people only wanted to watch the best of the best, why are there stadiums full of fans for sports teams that are no where near the best. It's all about relating to the fans. There are far more korean fans on TL than foreign fans from what I've seen. The majority of people actually do care about the quality of the games.
Maybe on TL but if this sport is going to grow we need the casual not super elitest nerds that just want to see the best of the best and look down on everything els that isnt korean!.
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On August 03 2011 01:53 lunchforthesky wrote:You are indeed wrong. http://ch.gomtv.com/450/28559/439177/4That's the link for the Losira/Nestea finals with 539,000 views on the Korean site. The English site has 104,000 views. There's also the Chinese site which I can't be bothered to dig up. This also doesn't include live viewers I don't think, which I'd imagine are higher in Korea for time zone reasons.
This is interesting
I wonder who casts for the koreans @ mlg.
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On August 03 2011 02:25 Nerdslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 23:38 lunchforthesky wrote:On August 02 2011 21:21 cheggelund wrote:On August 02 2011 16:57 4ZakeN87 wrote:
A tournament where you have people from numerous countries are competing on the top level, France, US, Australia, Ukraine, Canada, Poland, Sweden, Korea and so on.
This would also per defention mean that the average level would need to become a lot more balanced in order to achive this, also resulting in that each individual game becomes harder to predict. Not to mention the hole national aspect.
Or option two: Where we have top 10 players coming from one country, humiliating everyone else in the tournament?
If you dont think that this has any impact what so ever... then you are seriously just plain stupid.
Which is now when I think about it exactly the same thing. I have to agree with your logic. Most people posting here are pretty hard-core Starcraft fans, and we know how to appreciate excellent (that's for you Lindsey) play. However, to gain a broader audience and attract more casual fans you need more diversity than 6 Korean Terrans battling for the top 6 places.
IMHO, It does take away some excitement from the tournament when you know that many of your favorite players are only battling for a top 10-20 finish.
--Chegg Then don't base your favourite on anyone not from one country. Base it on, you know, how much you like their play. Every sport has good and bad players, you can't decide to support all the bad ones and then whine when they don't win. Sport doesnt work like that.. In most sports alot of people are fans of alot of different teams/players and if they dont play, alot dont even watch. I love footbal but I spend most of my time trying to watch local danish teams. I know they artn the best in the world. But it doesnt matter they danish and I have been a fan of danish football namely Brøndby since I can remember. Same with sc2 alot of people are big fans of alot of different players if 1 nation keep dominating the scene people just arnt gonna watch. Ill bet money that as soon the western players got knocked out of MLG they lost viewers. I doubt they will release the numbers but those i spoke with did the same as me closed the stream.
I almost did the same, i had a 'here we go again' thought.
I would have loved to see a, for example, team liquid player vs a EG player final. I would have been hooting and shouting at the screen. Slayers vs IM (?), i watch GSL for those.
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On August 03 2011 02:28 Nerdslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 02:22 rysecake wrote:On August 03 2011 02:19 ashaman771 wrote:On August 03 2011 02:04 Sixes wrote:On August 03 2011 01:45 ashaman771 wrote:
You need home grown talent to win in order to create a sustained following at home. It's proven time and time again, people enjoy a local story. Case in point, i tell my more casual SC2 friends a korean won a tournament, they say 'big woop'. I tell them a fellow canadian won dreamhack, and they're instantly getting the replays and see who this amazing 'huk' guy is.
If MLG is to grow eSports, SC2, they should rethink their invites of GSL pros. Most people relate to other people, not to a 14% better micromanagement skill. I like rooting for canadians, some people may like to root for team liquid, or for a guy from boston. There's a common thread.
It's an extremely complex endeavor trying to grow a sport, L2P has little place in that discussion. Well then again when I saw HuK win Dreamhack I was happy because he beat the Koreans to get there. If he had won in an all foreigner group I would have ignored it as a big fish in a tiny pool and most people who actually follow the game would say "good for him, call me when he beats the Koreans". The fact is they are playing better right now and foreigners who train the same way do compete (like Huk or Idra when he was playing in Korea). Closing off the competition to the Korean players just makes that tournament a second class competition as you have excluded what are currently the best players in the world. On the other hand keeping these tournaments open makes any foreign victory actually be a legitimate victory like Huk at Dreamhack and also gives foreign players a goal to reach (which they are much closer to than they ever were in BW). The hardcore are watching the tournaments now. To grow, you have to reach out to the more casual players, which there are far more of. i propose to you that with the casual crowd, second rate wouldn't even cross their mind. Pele couldn't sell soccer in north america, and the best koreans can't sell Sc2 esports in NA either. Know the target audience you're trying to cultivate, and IMO it'll take local talent to do so. If people only wanted to watch the best of the best, why are there stadiums full of fans for sports teams that are no where near the best. It's all about relating to the fans. There are far more korean fans on TL than foreign fans from what I've seen. The majority of people actually do care about the quality of the games. Maybe on TL but if this sport is going to grow we need the casual not super elitest nerds that just want to see the best of the best and look down on everything els that isnt korean!.
QFT
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On August 03 2011 02:19 ashaman771 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 02:04 Sixes wrote:On August 03 2011 01:45 ashaman771 wrote:
You need home grown talent to win in order to create a sustained following at home. It's proven time and time again, people enjoy a local story. Case in point, i tell my more casual SC2 friends a korean won a tournament, they say 'big woop'. I tell them a fellow canadian won dreamhack, and they're instantly getting the replays and see who this amazing 'huk' guy is.
If MLG is to grow eSports, SC2, they should rethink their invites of GSL pros. Most people relate to other people, not to a 14% better micromanagement skill. I like rooting for canadians, some people may like to root for team liquid, or for a guy from boston. There's a common thread.
It's an extremely complex endeavor trying to grow a sport, L2P has little place in that discussion. Well then again when I saw HuK win Dreamhack I was happy because he beat the Koreans to get there. If he had won in an all foreigner group I would have ignored it as a big fish in a tiny pool and most people who actually follow the game would say "good for him, call me when he beats the Koreans". The fact is they are playing better right now and foreigners who train the same way do compete (like Huk or Idra when he was playing in Korea). Closing off the competition to the Korean players just makes that tournament a second class competition as you have excluded what are currently the best players in the world. On the other hand keeping these tournaments open makes any foreign victory actually be a legitimate victory like Huk at Dreamhack and also gives foreign players a goal to reach (which they are much closer to than they ever were in BW). The hardcore are watching the tournaments now. To grow, you have to reach out to the more casual players, which there are far more of. i propose to you that with the casual crowd, second rate wouldn't even cross their mind. Pele couldn't sell soccer in north america, and the best koreans can't sell Sc2 esports in NA either. Know the target audience you're trying to cultivate, and IMO it'll take local talent to do so. If people only wanted to watch the best of the best, why are there stadiums full of fans for sports teams that are no where near the best. It's all about relating to the fans.
Yeah I forgot, American soccer is so much more popular than the World Cup is in North America. And the World Cup in fact has no viewership because the American team sucks ... wait ...
The fact is there are teams that suck and have fans (I live in Toronto and the Leafs know all about sucking while having fans) but even in Toronto I know a lot of people who cheer for Boston or Vancouver or <insert a team that actually plays Hockey>.
And yes, the Leafs winning would make the city grind to a halt for a week but in the meantime the bars have no problems filling up during the playoffs because people want to watch good hockey being played regardless.
Same goes for other sports. When I watch the Rugby World Cup in September I will cheer for France first (I am French and Canadian, dual citizenship and all that) and would find it hilarious if the Canadians even won a game (or scored a try, they are the foreigners of Rugby). But, at the end of the day I am cheering for the All Blacks because they are an amazingly good team that deserves the win, especially on home soil.
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On August 03 2011 02:04 Sixes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 01:45 ashaman771 wrote:
You need home grown talent to win in order to create a sustained following at home. It's proven time and time again, people enjoy a local story. Case in point, i tell my more casual SC2 friends a korean won a tournament, they say 'big woop'. I tell them a fellow canadian won dreamhack, and they're instantly getting the replays and see who this amazing 'huk' guy is.
If MLG is to grow eSports, SC2, they should rethink their invites of GSL pros. Most people relate to other people, not to a 14% better micromanagement skill. I like rooting for canadians, some people may like to root for team liquid, or for a guy from boston. There's a common thread.
It's an extremely complex endeavor trying to grow a sport, L2P has little place in that discussion. Well then again when I saw HuK win Dreamhack I was happy because he beat the Koreans to get there. If he had won in an all foreigner group I would have ignored it as a big fish in a tiny pool and most people who actually follow the game would say "good for him, call me when he beats the Koreans". The fact is they are playing better right now and foreigners who train the same way do compete (like Huk or Idra when he was playing in Korea). Closing off the competition to the Korean players just makes that tournament a second class competition as you have excluded what are currently the best players in the world. On the other hand keeping these tournaments open makes any foreign victory actually be a legitimate victory like Huk at Dreamhack and also gives foreign players a goal to reach (which they are much closer to than they ever were in BW).
Firstly I'd point out that while Huk is a foreigner he's essentially playing for and training with oGs. He proves that if determined enough a foreigner can join a Korean team play in Korea and then own lots of white dudes not living in Korea while maintaining a good level in Korea (Huk's not top level, he's lower/middle Code S).
What Huk doesn't prove is that A) Anyone can do it and B) A player can live/train outside of Korea and be able to win tournaments where a decent number of Koreans participate.
Idra is misleading imo because it was so early on in Sc2 history and Koreans weren't anything like as organised as they are now.
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On August 03 2011 02:40 lunchforthesky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 02:04 Sixes wrote:On August 03 2011 01:45 ashaman771 wrote:
You need home grown talent to win in order to create a sustained following at home. It's proven time and time again, people enjoy a local story. Case in point, i tell my more casual SC2 friends a korean won a tournament, they say 'big woop'. I tell them a fellow canadian won dreamhack, and they're instantly getting the replays and see who this amazing 'huk' guy is.
If MLG is to grow eSports, SC2, they should rethink their invites of GSL pros. Most people relate to other people, not to a 14% better micromanagement skill. I like rooting for canadians, some people may like to root for team liquid, or for a guy from boston. There's a common thread.
It's an extremely complex endeavor trying to grow a sport, L2P has little place in that discussion. Well then again when I saw HuK win Dreamhack I was happy because he beat the Koreans to get there. If he had won in an all foreigner group I would have ignored it as a big fish in a tiny pool and most people who actually follow the game would say "good for him, call me when he beats the Koreans". The fact is they are playing better right now and foreigners who train the same way do compete (like Huk or Idra when he was playing in Korea). Closing off the competition to the Korean players just makes that tournament a second class competition as you have excluded what are currently the best players in the world. On the other hand keeping these tournaments open makes any foreign victory actually be a legitimate victory like Huk at Dreamhack and also gives foreign players a goal to reach (which they are much closer to than they ever were in BW). Firstly I'd point out that while Huk is a foreigner he's essentially playing for and training with oGs. He proves that if determined enough a foreigner can join a Korean team play in Korea and then own lots of white dudes not living in Korea while maintaining a good level in Korea (Huk's not top level, he's lower/middle Code S). What Huk doesn't prove is that A) Anyone can do it and B) A player can live/train outside of Korea and be able to win tournaments where a decent number of Koreans participate. Idra is misleading imo because it was so early on in Sc2 history and Koreans weren't anything like as organised as they are now.
And again it's like Canadians in Rugby or European Hockey players coming to the NHL or basketball players going to the NBA ...
They go to whatever the competitive league is to improve their play or earn more and a fan of the sport tends to follow those leagues.
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On August 03 2011 02:25 Nerdslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 23:38 lunchforthesky wrote:On August 02 2011 21:21 cheggelund wrote:On August 02 2011 16:57 4ZakeN87 wrote:
A tournament where you have people from numerous countries are competing on the top level, France, US, Australia, Ukraine, Canada, Poland, Sweden, Korea and so on.
This would also per defention mean that the average level would need to become a lot more balanced in order to achive this, also resulting in that each individual game becomes harder to predict. Not to mention the hole national aspect.
Or option two: Where we have top 10 players coming from one country, humiliating everyone else in the tournament?
If you dont think that this has any impact what so ever... then you are seriously just plain stupid.
Which is now when I think about it exactly the same thing. I have to agree with your logic. Most people posting here are pretty hard-core Starcraft fans, and we know how to appreciate excellent (that's for you Lindsey) play. However, to gain a broader audience and attract more casual fans you need more diversity than 6 Korean Terrans battling for the top 6 places.
IMHO, It does take away some excitement from the tournament when you know that many of your favorite players are only battling for a top 10-20 finish.
--Chegg Then don't base your favourite on anyone not from one country. Base it on, you know, how much you like their play. Every sport has good and bad players, you can't decide to support all the bad ones and then whine when they don't win. Sport doesnt work like that.. In most sports alot of people are fans of alot of different teams/players and if they dont play, alot dont even watch. I love footbal but I spend most of my time trying to watch local danish teams. I know they artn the best in the world. But it doesnt matter they danish and I have been a fan of danish football namely Brøndby since I can remember. Same with sc2 alot of people are big fans of alot of different players if 1 nation keep dominating the scene people just arnt gonna watch. Ill bet money that as soon the western players got knocked out of MLG they lost viewers. I doubt they will release the numbers but those i spoke with did the same as me closed the stream.
Sc2 at the moment is total chaos. There's no schedule, no governing body just random tournaments all using totally different maps and formats. Some are LAN, some live casted online, some replay casted online for prize pools varying from a headset to $100,000 often with the very same players playing for the headset as play for the thousands of dollars.
In the future hopefully the scene will become a lot more coordinated so it will work like Tennis or Golf where we have the major tournaments of the year which are always LAN's and which everyone who's anyone will attend and prize/sponsorship money is such that the 50-60 players involved in this are salaried by their teams.
Beneath that there needs to be smaller tournaments which are online which act as either qualifiers for the bigger tournaments or just a proving ground for players to try and break into the major tournament scene and move up the world ranks.
A KeSPA style ranking system (but without the downsides of KeSPA) to work out seeds at the major events and to ensure that teams use the same maps, the same basic formats and to ensure player professionalism would also be great.
So say MLG July contains 64 players, 32 are invited based of world ranking and seeded as such and the rest come from online qualifaction. This would ideally integrate all the scenes much better so you don't get the current situation where Koreans destroy everyone and as Ret said in his fanclub foreigners have no opportunity to prepare for them because no one is good enough outside of Korea to practice against. It would also ensure that we don't get the frustrating Code B scenario where a lot of the clearly more skilled players lose one best of three and are out, as players would be invited as a result of their continued success across the last 12 months. So every major tournament would have MC, Nestea, MVP, MMA, DRG, Losira etc..
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Great event. However, I was disappointed by mirrored streams. Much of the Day 1 and 3 (missed a lot of 2) had down time on the streams or they were just mirrored each other. I did appreciate the scheduling aspect of it so I knew where to go to watch my favourite players. But it just seemed like a lot of wasted stream time with crowd shots. There were a number of times in which an interesting matchup was happening and red/blue stream was showing the same match or a crowd shot.
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As far as I'm concerned, if MLG decided not to invite the best players in the world (Koreans) then I wouldn't bother to watch it. Who wants to watch a bunch of *relative* amateurs play their way through a tournament where the actual great players aren't allowed?
If anything, GOM and the GSL currently set the standard for the SC2 metagame. If I had to choose any one organization to be the governing body for the entire scene, to set the maps, rules, etc. then it would make sense that the organization that fields the most competitive players and has the highest viewership should be the one to do it.
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For those of you who were actually at Anaheim:
Did security or event staff take away the beach balls you had in the crowd on day 3? I had a friend from Halo with me that day so I was in the Halo audience at the time and didn't see what ended up happening to them. Wish whoever brought them had taken them out on day 2 or early day 3 when I was in the SC2 seats 
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EPT
