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MLG Anaheim Day 2 RED Live Report Thread - Page 152

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Alright, its truly time to stop whining. Stop caster bashing also. Be warned.
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
July 30 2011 20:32 GMT
#3021
DT's were an excellent choice and he was safe light on units because he scouted a gasless expand from jinro. Choya was safe, if you can't see that you should be laddering or watching day9 VODs to learn this game.
b_unnies
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
3579 Posts
July 30 2011 20:32 GMT
#3022
Are people still debating whether DT early game is cheese? Why? Because protoss has limited units? Let's say he Jinro had a turret up and 1 DT dies. Choya still has map control with DTs (deny unit scouting, control watch towers etc). If Jinro wants to move out to attack, he either has to get himself a Raven. Early on that delays his tech a lot, which means later stim/combat shield/factory/ghost tech etc. Otherwise, P can split his DT's up and force T to drop mules, that means T's reinforcements is slower, if T has no scans remaining, he MUST retreat to wait for another scan. While doing all this, DT's buys tons of times for the additional gateways P makes to increase his army count fast.
Mawi
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden4365 Posts
July 30 2011 20:32 GMT
#3023
On July 31 2011 05:31 Sina92 wrote:
I would love it if you had to connect your TL account to your Bnet account in order to post.

It would:

1. Prevent smurf accounts (or make it harder to get).
2. Make sure none who has never played SC2 makes retarded comments about inbalance.
3. Hopefully enable a feature where you can ignore posts written by Diamond or lower.

people would use guest passes because you can still post with them :3
Forever Mirin Zyzz Son of Zeus Brother of Hercules Father of the Aesthetics
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
July 30 2011 20:32 GMT
#3024
how can he say he likes this build its really good?
what.....?
mikyaJ
Profile Joined April 2011
1834 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3025
On July 31 2011 05:20 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 05:19 Xivsa wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:17 Talin wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:16 Piski wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:15 Benjef wrote:
Cheese ftw I guess?


How is that cheese? He expanded faster than Jinro :f Jinro with bad scouting. It sucks but dont blame Choya


Gosh, you can always save up 400 minerals and expand, it doesn't mean anything.

It was absolutely cheese, when you warp in 3 DTs it's completely all in. There was no way choya could have protected his "expansion", it was just part of the deception.


It would have been cheese if Choya somehow pulled his probes with the attack or something. If the DTs failed utterly, he could have tried to get a wall or at least a few cannons at his natural and build up more zealots/stalkers before transitioning into whatever. Going fast DTs and attacking with them is not cheese - it's just a form of pressure.


If DTs failed choya would be dead with zero chance of recovery.

Going fast 3 DTs is absolutely cheese. There is a DT expand build that's somewhat stable - but this isn't anywhere close to that.

Well then, if Choya had gone DTs (which he did) "Jinro would be dead with zero chance of recovery", so therefore, what Jinro did is cheese. Amirite? Because you know, his build was instant lose to DTs. Get it? This is stupid, if it was the other way around people wouldn't care.
MKP||TSL
gurrpp
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States437 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3026
On July 31 2011 05:24 Telcontar wrote:
I've noticed that Jinro has been quite susceptible to unorthodox strategies in the past few months. Seems like he just hasn't found the time to sit down and figure these timings and strategies out. Let's hope he can regroup in the lower bracket.


Void ray pressure and dt expand are super common in Korea.
hot fuh days
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3027
On July 31 2011 05:32 vrok wrote:
Not only wasn't it cheese, but everyone that knows anything about Korean players knows Choya loves his DTs and voidrays. Build a fucking engineering bay, period. Jinro should know this.

Or save scans. Don't go no detection.
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3028
On July 31 2011 05:31 oogieogie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 05:29 Topdoller wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:22 The Final Boss wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:16 Topdoller wrote:

Punished for being to greedy, i dont why Terrans blow all the CC energy on mules so early when they are vulnerable to DT rush


Terran needs MULES early game. If a Terran player isn't MULing properly and a good Gateway Timing push comes, they'll lose the game. You can say that Jinro lost because he was greedy or didn't scout enough, but what it comes down to is that Dark Templar are the stupidest thing in the game. They give free wins to Protoss players who don't deserve them, such as Choya over Jinro. Or how about Puzzle beating MMA. Puzzle would have lost first round were it not for the stupidity of a unit that instantly wins you the game (anybody who didn't watch those, basically Puzzle DT rushed two games in a row, MMA forgot Missile Turrets, and later in the game despite MMA microing far better and outplaying Puzzle, he was too far behind.

Basic recap of those games:
Game 1: Jinro plays far better than Choya and wins with great play and NUKES!!!
Game 2: Choya abuses Metalopolis and wins because of a map imbalance and cheesy play.
Game 3: Dark Templar.

Only one of those games is worth watching, I bet you can all guess which one it is.



DTs are no different than cloaked banshees, you can call it a build order lose, but all the same, if you are playing an opponent who is known for this sort of tactic then you have no one to blame but yourself

Jinro is fantastic player and he plays the game the "right way", but sometimes he is frustrating to watch cause he keeps dying to what most people meet in gold\p[lat division. His late game is fantastic to watch if he makes it that far

I don't watch GSL much, but hasn't Nestea lost to bunker play from terrans? I mean you meet that in gold/plat division and it doesn't mean at all that Nestea is a bad player.


Not recently.


+ Show Spoiler +
Nestea undefeated
twitch.tv/medrea
Shagg
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland825 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 20:33:41
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3029
On July 31 2011 05:31 Sina92 wrote:
I would love it if you had to connect your TL account to your Bnet account in order to post.

It would:

1. Prevent smurf accounts (or make it harder to get).
2. Make sure none who has never played SC2 makes retarded comments about inbalance.
3. Hopefully enable a feature where you can ignore posts written by Diamond or lower.

Ty for you opinion mr elitist : p
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
oogieogie
Profile Joined June 2011
United States3657 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3030
On July 31 2011 05:30 groms wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 05:28 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
*Sigh*, non-protoss players everywhere feel Jinro's pain. Stupid DTs.

On July 31 2011 05:24 mikyaJ wrote:
If Jinro had beaten Choya with a Banshee FE because Choya had no detection due to not scouting it, people would be fine. So biased, it's pathetic really, and I hate Protoss.


Cloaked banshees are nowhere comparable to DTs.
DTs have unlimited cloak, banshees do not.
DTs start with cloak, banshees need them researched.
DTs kill workers in one shot, banshees in two.
DTs are produced by the very beginning production building, making higher number production [like 3 at once to split everywhere] far easier than starport production of banshees.

I'm not saying anything about overall game balance, but it's just absurd to put banshees on the same level.

Hmmm not sure if trolling or Painuser?

hes basicly right though so how would he be trolling? Also would be the same vs a toss or a zerg where no detection = auto lose or huuuuuuge economic damage where later you lose because of it.
Ullis
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden163 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3031
fffffffffffffffffffff.... that mlg commercial is effin loud
PHC
Profile Joined March 2011
United States472 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3032
On July 31 2011 05:27 Synwave wrote:
Why is FXOboss stepping into this? Just asking, I have alot of respect for fxo's business sense but talking shit in a foreign language on tl? Im just confused.
Do I need google translate to understand wisdom or foolishness?
DJWheat moderate!


Because he's defending his friend and fellow teammate who has absolutely no reason to get hated on? The Choya hate here is completely unwarranted and you know it. Don't blame Choya for Jinro's mistakes. I love Jinro as much as the next guy, but he made mistakes that lost him the games.
lightrise
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1355 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3033
Yeah really haha Nestea rapes hard
Awesome german interviewer: "What was your idea going into games against Idra" "I WANTED TO USE A CHEESE STRATEGY BECAUSE IDRA IS KNOWN TO TILT AFTER LOSING TO SOMETHING GAY" Demuslim
MoonfireSpam
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1153 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 20:34:26
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3034
On July 31 2011 05:29 FrankWalls wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 05:27 Synwave wrote:
Why is FXOboss stepping into this? Just asking, I have alot of respect for fxo's business sense but talking shit in a foreign language on tl? Im just confused.
Do I need google translate to understand wisdom or foolishness?
DJWheat moderate!


remember the time when fxo absorbed fOu.
well choya is on fOu.
now boss is defending his player


Afaik Boss and Choya are pretty good pals as well (something about Boss paying for Choyas trip to MLG as Choya helped em out when FXO came to Korea), so putting in a word for your mate and team member against the mass retardness of people being dicks to Choya who doesn't deserve it at all.
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3035
Children please, read the sticky, stop the petty fucking arguments about cheese. Choya won fair and square - can't believe there's some idiot saying he hates him and wants event attendees to disrespect him...what a dick.
flowSthead
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1065 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3036
On July 31 2011 05:28 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
*Sigh*, non-protoss players everywhere feel Jinro's pain. Stupid DTs.

Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 05:24 mikyaJ wrote:
If Jinro had beaten Choya with a Banshee FE because Choya had no detection due to not scouting it, people would be fine. So biased, it's pathetic really, and I hate Protoss.


Cloaked banshees are nowhere comparable to DTs.
DTs have unlimited cloak, banshees do not.
DTs start with cloak, banshees need them researched.
DTs kill workers in one shot, banshees in two.
DTs are produced by the very beginning production building, making higher number production [like 3 at once to split everywhere] far easier than starport production of banshees.

I'm not saying anything about overall game balance, but it's just absurd to put banshees on the same level.


Terran has scan earlier on, while Protoss needs Robo and observer or cannons.
Gateway, Cyber Core, Twilight, Dark Shrine vs Barracks, Factory, Starport with Tech Lab.
Banshees can be repaired, DTs die in 2 seconds.
Banshees can run away, DTs once found are dead.

I can do this too. What's your point?
"You can be creative but I will crush it under the iron fist of my conservative play." - Liquid`Tyler █ MVP ■ MC ■ Boxer ■ Grubby █
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3037
On July 31 2011 05:33 mikyaJ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 05:20 Talin wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:19 Xivsa wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:17 Talin wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:16 Piski wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:15 Benjef wrote:
Cheese ftw I guess?


How is that cheese? He expanded faster than Jinro :f Jinro with bad scouting. It sucks but dont blame Choya


Gosh, you can always save up 400 minerals and expand, it doesn't mean anything.

It was absolutely cheese, when you warp in 3 DTs it's completely all in. There was no way choya could have protected his "expansion", it was just part of the deception.


It would have been cheese if Choya somehow pulled his probes with the attack or something. If the DTs failed utterly, he could have tried to get a wall or at least a few cannons at his natural and build up more zealots/stalkers before transitioning into whatever. Going fast DTs and attacking with them is not cheese - it's just a form of pressure.


If DTs failed choya would be dead with zero chance of recovery.

Going fast 3 DTs is absolutely cheese. There is a DT expand build that's somewhat stable - but this isn't anywhere close to that.

Well then, if Choya had gone DTs (which he did) "Jinro would be dead with zero chance of recovery", so therefore, what Jinro did is cheese. Amirite? Because you know, his build was instant lose to DTs. Get it? This is stupid, if it was the other way around people wouldn't care.

If it was the other way around there would have been 50 pages of people going "YEAHHHH JINRO SO CREATIVE"
Treadmill
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada2833 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3038
On July 31 2011 05:31 mango_destroyer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 05:29 Ryuu2 wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:26 mango_destroyer wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:25 Ryuu2 wrote:
On July 31 2011 05:22 Fionn wrote:
Still don't know how that was cheese or an all-in.

If the DT's failed? A setback for Choya, but he could transition into a very normal game. Jinro just played that wrong. Stop bashing Choya for something Jinro should have scouted/been prepared for.

The reason why Choyas build sucks: Its fucking unsafe. He would've died to ANYTHING except for what jinro ended up doing. Choya just threw a dice and he got extremely lucky and won.


LOL please go play the game.

NO ENGY BAY NO SCANS is safe?! Jinro played extremely risky and greedy and payed for it. He didnt even scout it.

Choyas build would've died to: 2rax pressure, 3rax, 4rax allin (obv), cloaked banshees etc. Choya PRAYED that jinro wouldn't do any of that and won.


The what if game can be applied to every series. I am not going to bother getting into that kind of reasoning.

Also. Jinro went cloaked banshees. And theres this thing called scouting, y'know?
Sneakyz
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden2361 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3039
Who controlled the volume for that shit
I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.
Slakter
Profile Joined January 2010
Sweden1947 Posts
July 30 2011 20:33 GMT
#3040
On July 31 2011 05:32 vrok wrote:
Not only wasn't it cheese, but everyone that knows anything about Korean players knows Choya loves his DTs and voidrays. Build a fucking engineering bay, period. Jinro should know this. Just a mistake.

Quote for truth.

Jinro had a hole in his build, Choya put a shotgun through that hole and pulled the trigger.
Protoss, can't live with em', can't kill em'.
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