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[GSL] July Code S SemiFinals - Page 146

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
July 25 2011 16:05 GMT
#2901
I've been saying for a while that the ongoing balancing process between Zerg and the other races must surely have been influenced by the high proportion of surprise-based or build-order losses zergs have experienced since retail, the end result being that if you fail to surprise a zerg, you're at a disadvantage.

Every time a Zerg on the ladder has collapsed in the face of fast banshees or sudden hellions or DTs or a hidden pylon or a cancelled expansion, that loss has counted in the 'zerg is too weak' column when assessing balance. The same is true for the other races, but to a lesser extent I think you'll agree (early-game Protoss and Terran units being somewhat more flexible and the potential for over-droning being that much greater).

Now, if the races are balanced in terms of win/loss ratios, but more of one race's losses are coming from 'getting surprised', then a player of that race who figures out enemy timings and what to look for stands to gain more than a player of another race who does the same, all other things being equal. And when I see Nestea reach the finals without dropping a game, pulling out massive economic leads before grabbing tech and units at the perfect moment, I have to wonder...
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
Loodah
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
335 Posts
July 25 2011 16:05 GMT
#2902
I think Byun is better than Losira. I hope he gets another chance to shine, he's an amazing macro terran that got spoiled by a lot of cheese.
nalgene
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada2153 Posts
July 25 2011 16:06 GMT
#2903
On July 26 2011 00:35 amd098 wrote:
holy shit i fail for missing these matches
gotta watch the vods now, IM gets thier 4fourth champion [nestea, mvp mvp nestea]... wow

it would be the 5th... if you include the one with nestea vs losira :D
Year 2500 Greater Israel ( Bahrain, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Gaza Strip, West Bank, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen )
deadjawa
Profile Joined May 2011
United States179 Posts
July 25 2011 16:12 GMT
#2904
The problem with ZvZ is larva management makes for some really awkward games, and the fact that roaches are simply the best ground unit in the matchup because Zerg has no true anti-armored unit. Everything ends up being some sort of timing attack.

But, if both players manage to defend the timing attacks you can get some really crazy, interesting games. In games like these literally every unit type gets used, except for possibly hydras.
izgodlee
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada133 Posts
July 25 2011 16:18 GMT
#2905
On July 26 2011 00:19 Cheerio wrote:
wtf happened? Zergs, you are supposed to be UP race lol.


but its just cause nestea and losira are just like, so good thats why, herp de durr
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 16:20:39
July 25 2011 16:19 GMT
#2906
If DjWheat casted the GSL finals.

"Ok guys, we got a zvz here. ZvZ is very very hard for zerg. I don't really expect zerg to come out on top in any situation and they will always struggle to stay ahead the whole game.
Oh my god, the 2 zergs both fast expanded. This is super risky. They haven't scouted each other yet, but there could be an all-in coming soon.
Ok, we have had 45 minutes of intense struggles, but it still appears the zerg is losing.
And that's gg, zerg loses. My heart really goes out to that zerg player. It's a really tough matchup."

+ Show Spoiler +
This is just teasing DJ. He loves his zerg
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-25 16:25:07
July 25 2011 16:24 GMT
#2907
On July 26 2011 01:18 izgodlee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 00:19 Cheerio wrote:
wtf happened? Zergs, you are supposed to be UP race lol.


but its just cause nestea and losira are just like, so good thats why, herp de durr

...So the best player in the world and what could be the second best zerg in the world aren't supposed to be massively favored and subsequently win? Ok.
croupier
Profile Joined July 2010
United States92 Posts
July 25 2011 16:28 GMT
#2908
So it seems that the IM Zerg house has figured out the metagame a bit better than the rest of everybody. Good on them. I can't wait to watch the games later today, I wanted them to win!

I don't mind ZvZ at all, so i'm looking forward to seeing the finals. Especially with a team-kill ZvZ, i think some weird strategies and mindgames will play out.
Horst
Profile Joined November 2010
338 Posts
July 25 2011 16:33 GMT
#2909
as a protoss player, I kinda feel cheated. MC is definitely WAY better than HongUn, and MC vs Nestea would not have been a 1 sided slaughterfest.
VeryAverage
Profile Joined January 2011
United States424 Posts
July 25 2011 16:36 GMT
#2910
Patch 1.4

-IM Zergs start with 4 drones.
udgnim
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8024 Posts
July 25 2011 16:37 GMT
#2911
On July 26 2011 01:18 izgodlee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 00:19 Cheerio wrote:
wtf happened? Zergs, you are supposed to be UP race lol.


but its just cause nestea and losira are just like, so good thats why, herp de durr


which should be interpreted as skill > perceived "imbalance" in the game
E-Sports is competitive video gaming with a spectator fan base. Do not take the word "Sports" literally.
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
July 25 2011 16:39 GMT
#2912
On July 26 2011 00:34 Olinim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 00:31 Maliris wrote:
nestea officiallly a bonjwa^^

if by officially you mean not at all, sure. "successive title wins, dominates for a long period of time"

He hasn't done either of those yet. Protip : learn what words mean before you use them, less you look like an idiot.


The phrase is 'lest you forget' :b
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
Rayansaki
Profile Joined January 2011
Portugal1266 Posts
July 25 2011 16:40 GMT
#2913
On July 26 2011 01:36 VeryAverage wrote:
Patch 1.4

-IM Zergs start with 4 drones.

Not enough of a nerf :D
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse: IMNestea (Death), IMLosirA (Famine), IMmvp (War), IMFenix (Conquest)
laharl23
Profile Joined February 2011
United States582 Posts
July 25 2011 16:41 GMT
#2914
People still say zerg is under-powered?

thats sooo two patches ago, get with the times people.
Chinchillin
Profile Joined February 2011
United States259 Posts
July 25 2011 16:41 GMT
#2915
So excited for a ZvZ finals between two of the top 10 players in the entire world! Just got nerd chills already...
Leenocktopus! InNoVation!
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
July 25 2011 16:44 GMT
#2916
On July 26 2011 01:24 Serpico wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2011 01:18 izgodlee wrote:
On July 26 2011 00:19 Cheerio wrote:
wtf happened? Zergs, you are supposed to be UP race lol.


but its just cause nestea and losira are just like, so good thats why, herp de durr

...So the best player in the world and what could be the second best zerg in the world aren't supposed to be massively favored and subsequently win? Ok.



All of this "Zerg is OP, UP" is getting tiring I agree. At this point, we have had winners from all the different races and the only conclusion we can come to is that "There are a lot of good terrans in korea". Nestea could just be on a completely different level.
I think if anything, it tells you that we really don't know the balance of power right now. If you look at the # of terrans in GM league in korea, it matches up identically with the rest of the leagues so it's not really a suprise that terran is doing well there, but the question should be, why do koreans like terran so much compared to north americans liking protoss. I really think it has to do with the personality of the races and culture more than any sort of balance thing.

If you look at the top players in all the races these guys have potential to be in the finals. No one has really figured out yet how to take advantage of the interface yet. Terran's were starting to figure out the drop style harass, but it's not perfected yet. A nestea vs losira finals would be just as likely as a mvp vs bomber finals or an mc vs hongun finals.

Also i'm rooting for losira. This guy is so good. When he beat huk I thought "Man, how does anyone beat this guy". I'm rooting for losira to show us a new flavor of zvz.

Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Woshie
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia90 Posts
July 25 2011 16:50 GMT
#2917
My first reaction was "Crud... Might as well crown Nestea now". But we shall see I hope Losira puts up a good fight, because we all know Nestea is a beast in ZvZ
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
July 25 2011 16:54 GMT
#2918
On July 26 2011 01:05 Loodah wrote:
I think Byun is better than Losira. I hope he gets another chance to shine, he's an amazing macro terran that got spoiled by a lot of cheese.


What cheese ? he got outsmarted, don't follow atrosis fanboyism blindly, byun this or that, but the better player won.
Tamiel
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom18 Posts
July 25 2011 17:03 GMT
#2919
[image loading]
Energizer byunny
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
July 25 2011 17:05 GMT
#2920
On July 25 2011 16:34 KimJongChill wrote:
If we get a ZvZ finals, then i will eat my hat!


Welp, guess I'm gonna be doing some hat eating tonight :c
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
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