EPT[GSL] July Code S SemiFinals - Page 147
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NuclearJudas
6546 Posts
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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babylon
8765 Posts
Oh well. Guess we're in for yet another lackluster finals. NesTea vs. anyone who isn't Terran = one-sided. =/ | ||
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StaplerPhone
United States813 Posts
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McBengt
Sweden1684 Posts
On July 26 2011 01:05 Umpteen wrote: I've been saying for a while that the ongoing balancing process between Zerg and the other races must surely have been influenced by the high proportion of surprise-based or build-order losses zergs have experienced since retail, the end result being that if you fail to surprise a zerg, you're at a disadvantage. Every time a Zerg on the ladder has collapsed in the face of fast banshees or sudden hellions or DTs or a hidden pylon or a cancelled expansion, that loss has counted in the 'zerg is too weak' column when assessing balance. The same is true for the other races, but to a lesser extent I think you'll agree (early-game Protoss and Terran units being somewhat more flexible and the potential for over-droning being that much greater). Now, if the races are balanced in terms of win/loss ratios, but more of one race's losses are coming from 'getting surprised', then a player of that race who figures out enemy timings and what to look for stands to gain more than a player of another race who does the same, all other things being equal. And when I see Nestea reach the finals without dropping a game, pulling out massive economic leads before grabbing tech and units at the perfect moment, I have to wonder... This is definitely true. However, surprise(cheese/rush?) losses count just the same as 40 min macro games, which creates an irritating catch 22 situation. How exactly do you, without basically overhauling the zerg race, make them evenly balanced in terms of economy and macro during the mid-late game, without having them be so vulnerable during the early stages? I'm not saying it can't be done or that the game is perfect as is, but it's a lot more difficult than just "nerf zerg macro". Also, it is worth noting that a large number of the zerg losses during the earlier stages of the game, were due to the horrible maps that favoured one base strats and all ins to an absurd degree(ZvPon steppes was awesome, still have bad dreams from that). If what the developers said in the preview for HoTS, regarding the fact that they wished to make early game scouting easier and reduce the number of BO losses and rush/early timing push strategies, then this could become a real issue. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On July 26 2011 01:44 darmousseh wrote: All of this "Zerg is OP, UP" is getting tiring I agree. At this point, we have had winners from all the different races and the only conclusion we can come to is that "There are a lot of good terrans in korea". Nestea could just be on a completely different level. I think if anything, it tells you that we really don't know the balance of power right now. If you look at the # of terrans in GM league in korea, it matches up identically with the rest of the leagues so it's not really a suprise that terran is doing well there, but the question should be, why do koreans like terran so much compared to north americans liking protoss. I really think it has to do with the personality of the races and culture more than any sort of balance thing. If you look at the top players in all the races these guys have potential to be in the finals. No one has really figured out yet how to take advantage of the interface yet. Terran's were starting to figure out the drop style harass, but it's not perfected yet. A nestea vs losira finals would be just as likely as a mvp vs bomber finals or an mc vs hongun finals. Also i'm rooting for losira. This guy is so good. When he beat huk I thought "Man, how does anyone beat this guy". I'm rooting for losira to show us a new flavor of zvz. The more Terran in top ladder, the more TvT they have to play if anything. And it's BO1. And if they get in GM in the beginning of the season and stay active, the chances are they won't get kicked out and will be in GM forever until new season. And not that many pro playing ladder. Ladder is a good indcator of a player's potential. Teams can scout out new players from ladder, but after the player joining the team, ladder does not have that much meaning. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
I obviously hope they're a bit better than that, but when it comes to GSL finals worst case is usually right. | ||
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forgottendreams
United States1771 Posts
Seriously? This build has been debunked in even EU by now, it just adds to my suspicions that Korean protosses are genuinely slightly behind in build order creativity and strength. | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On July 26 2011 02:25 StaplerPhone wrote: Goddamnit curse of bad finals strikes again. Two best zergs in the world playing eachother in the finals, both are on the same team with one being a previous 2-time champion, and to top it all off they're seen as "master and apprentice." You really think this will be a bad finals? Personally I don't think it'll be like any other finals. Nestea is Losira's #1 zvz practice partner and vice-versa, so they both know how their opponent makes decisions. And I doubt it's all about the money -- they live together and are probably really close friends. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
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Techno
1900 Posts
On July 25 2011 23:05 CidO wrote: Some just know how to evolve their play, even some NA/EU zergs have been changing it up. That said, T doesn't seem to be changing their approach /shrug. When the game was new, T was the most diverse race in terms of strategies used. Terran has explored a ton of options already and we've settled on what appears to be the "best" right now. Terran will evolve, and it will be magical.... but it will be a very slow and painful process of very subtle improvements. | ||
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lolsixtynine
United States600 Posts
I'm not going to mention the word that everyone's thinking about, but I'm getting excited to watch this guy in the future. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On July 26 2011 02:48 forgottendreams wrote: I read through the nestea vs hongun games and found out he did forge expand into stargate all three games? Seriously? This build has been debunked in even EU by now, it just adds to my suspicions that Korean protosses are genuinely slightly behind in build order creativity and strength. No, he did a 3gate sentry expand in the third game. Game 1 was a strong double stargate push followed by 6gate aggression. | ||
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Treva
United States535 Posts
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forgottendreams
United States1771 Posts
On July 26 2011 03:07 CosmicSpiral wrote: No, he did a 3gate sentry expand in the third game. Game 1 was a strong double stargate push followed by 6gate aggression. I see, nobody talked about his build third game at least from what I saw so I just assumed X_X | ||
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imPERSONater
United States1324 Posts
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Midgetman101
United States825 Posts
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On July 26 2011 01:54 Lysanias wrote: What cheese ? he got outsmarted, don't follow atrosis fanboyism blindly, byun this or that, but the better player won. Oh no, don't you know, bunker rushing with 8 SCVs is an economic opening, Losira just cheesed Byun by killing all those SCVs!!! | ||
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Alaron
United States225 Posts
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stonetalon
Netherlands482 Posts
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