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On July 22 2011 09:22 Crazypyro1 wrote:
I am currently rank 1 diamond, but I play masters players and I have a feeling that next week I will be promoted to masters. Can I still sign up for the diamond tournament?
In your particular situation, it may be best to wait and register when you know for certain whether or not you will be promoted. Your league at the time of the tournament will be the absolute factor.
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What if I don't play my season 3 qualifier til after weds? Are you requiring everyone to play their placement pre tournament?
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On July 22 2011 09:27 Crazypyro1 wrote:
What if I don't play my season 3 qualifier til after weds? Are you requiring everyone to play their placement pre tournament?
Yes, you really should be ranked at the time of the tournament. Don't see that as any kind of sacrifice. What active player wouldn't want to play their placement match at the start of Season 3?
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Just curious because I'm right on the line of diamond and masters.
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hope i dont get smurfed, but i'll give it a shot nonetheless :D thanks for this!
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On July 22 2011 09:25 DarkenedLite wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 09:22 Crazypyro1 wrote:
I am currently rank 1 diamond, but I play masters players and I have a feeling that next week I will be promoted to masters. Can I still sign up for the diamond tournament? In your particular situation, it may be best to wait and register when you know for certain whether or not you will be promoted. Your league at the time of the tournament will be the absolute factor.
Not to rag on the tourney, I think it's great but does anyone else feel this is a bit of a inherent flaw in the league brackets?
If he stays in diamond he has a good chance of winning assuming no smurfs caus he will be playing lower level people / people around his skill.
If he gets placed into masters he's still sorta close to a diamond level but will now be facing GMs.
The prize pool is small enough it's not a big deal and its obviously mostly for the fun of it but it does sorta restrict anyone who's above diamond but isn't near a GM level.
I suppose the other way of looking at it is you get to have the honor of getting your butt kicked by a GM and those are the matches people will watch.
Is this seen as a non significant problem because masters players are a smaller % of the total active sc2 population, or is it just a problem that can't really easily be fixed.
Probably the most ideal solution would be to divide lower masters and high masters, with low masters playing with DIA. and high masters playing with GM but I can see how that could begin to make things complicated.
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I need to get off work earlier so I can play in this...
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On July 22 2011 10:57 Nibbler89 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 09:25 DarkenedLite wrote:On July 22 2011 09:22 Crazypyro1 wrote:
I am currently rank 1 diamond, but I play masters players and I have a feeling that next week I will be promoted to masters. Can I still sign up for the diamond tournament? In your particular situation, it may be best to wait and register when you know for certain whether or not you will be promoted. Your league at the time of the tournament will be the absolute factor. Not to rag on the tourney, I think it's great but does anyone else feel this is a bit of a inherent flaw in the league brackets? If he stays in diamond he has a good chance of winning assuming no smurfs caus he will be playing lower level people / people around his skill. If he gets placed into masters he's still sorta close to a diamond level but will now be facing GMs. The prize pool is small enough it's not a big deal and its obviously mostly for the fun of it but it does sorta restrict anyone who's above diamond but isn't near a GM level. I suppose the other way of looking at it is you get to have the honor of getting your butt kicked by a GM and those are the matches people will watch. Is this seen as a non significant problem because masters players are a smaller % of the total active sc2 population, or is it just a problem that can't really easily be fixed. Probably the most ideal solution would be to divide lower masters and high masters, with low masters playing with DIA. and high masters playing with GM but I can see how that could begin to make things complicated.
It's an inherent problem of all tournaments that cater specifically to the non-best players. Take Huk for example, he can only get better to win. And getting better will cause him to win more. For a plat player, he wants to get better, but not so better that he can be promoted to diamond to win. So in a sense, by getting better, he has a worse chance of winning.
If you break it down into high/low, that's even stupider and more biased. Ladder points pretty much have nothing to do with mmr until everyone gets rid of bonus pool. And really, it's exactly the same problems of dividing by leagues except now you made up your own even more arbitrary divisions.
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On July 22 2011 10:57 Nibbler89 wrote:
Not to rag on the tourney, I think it's great but does anyone else feel this is a bit of a inherent flaw in the league brackets?
If he stays in diamond he has a good chance of winning assuming no smurfs caus he will be playing lower level people / people around his skill.
If he gets placed into masters he's still sorta close to a diamond level but will now be facing GMs.
The prize pool is small enough it's not a big deal and its obviously mostly for the fun of it but it does sorta restrict anyone who's above diamond but isn't near a GM level.
I suppose the other way of looking at it is you get to have the honor of getting your butt kicked by a GM and those are the matches people will watch.
Is this seen as a non significant problem because masters players are a smaller % of the total active sc2 population, or is it just a problem that can't really easily be fixed.
Probably the most ideal solution would be to divide lower masters and high masters, with low masters playing with DIA. and high masters playing with GM but I can see how that could begin to make things complicated.
You pretty much nailed it with a lot of points you made and that will lead me to prefacing this with the unfortunate truth that there really isn't an ideal solution no matter how you swing in.
There will never be one optimal way to split the divisions, especially the Masters/Grandmasters area for everyone to feel like they are at the top of the pack. For those low Masters players that are challenged with the feat of defeating some of the best that NA has to offer, the biggest thing it can offer you in my mind is that wonderful experience of playing great players, even professionals. And as you said you can be casted playing against those fantastic players that everyone wants to see play.
It helps you to gauge your own level of play. It helps you understand that Masters is certainly not the cap and it helps players understand that there is still a huge opportunity for improvement.
The last point I want to make in that vein is that upsets do happen. I have seen low Masters players defeat the likes of coLRSVP by exploiting weaknesses that they picked up on.
No one can win all the time, not even the best and the feeling of success would be that much greater if you can pull it out against the best of the best, not just the sub-par. And that is the most important part of tournaments like this to me. The experience and the challenge. That enormous prize pool just gives you one more drive. 
And even if you take all of that away, there really isn't a better solution in my mind.
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On July 22 2011 08:19 KiLL_ORdeR wrote:
I have a feeling that these tournaments will now be loaded with smurfs. $50 is an awesome prize, especially for a bronze/silver level tourney. What are your plans on dealing with this?
As many precautions as possible are taken to insure that there is no smurfing within the tournament by both Playhem and Stim.tv. Match histories are thoroughly checked and if a suspicious situation does arise, greater care is taken to ensure that there is no foul play involved. Replays and match history are examined closely and the players are questioned.
Unfortunately, there is no full-proof anti-smurf method, but despite that whatever can be done is being done.
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Very well said DarkenedLite, thanks for that
And just to reiterate, we're not ignorant of the fact that smurfs will occur - we've been doing this for 28 weeks straight already without missing a single tournament, we've cut our teeth on all levels of tournaments.
We don't take it lightly and as Darkened outlined, we are prepared
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host can pick what brackets they like but id prefer bronze silver gold being a bracket then plat and diamond then masters gm
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On July 22 2011 13:33 DarkenedLite wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:57 Nibbler89 wrote:
Not to rag on the tourney, I think it's great but does anyone else feel this is a bit of a inherent flaw in the league brackets?
If he stays in diamond he has a good chance of winning assuming no smurfs caus he will be playing lower level people / people around his skill.
If he gets placed into masters he's still sorta close to a diamond level but will now be facing GMs.
The prize pool is small enough it's not a big deal and its obviously mostly for the fun of it but it does sorta restrict anyone who's above diamond but isn't near a GM level.
I suppose the other way of looking at it is you get to have the honor of getting your butt kicked by a GM and those are the matches people will watch.
Is this seen as a non significant problem because masters players are a smaller % of the total active sc2 population, or is it just a problem that can't really easily be fixed.
Probably the most ideal solution would be to divide lower masters and high masters, with low masters playing with DIA. and high masters playing with GM but I can see how that could begin to make things complicated. You pretty much nailed it with a lot of points you made and that will lead me to prefacing this with the unfortunate truth that there really isn't an ideal solution no matter how you swing in. There will never be one optimal way to split the divisions, especially the Masters/Grandmasters area for everyone to feel like they are on a high level of play. For those low Masters players that are challenged with the feat of defeating some of the best that NA has to offer, the biggest thing it can offer you in my mind is that wonderful experience of playing great players, even professionals. And as you said you can be casted playing against those fantastic players that everyone wants to see play. It helps you to gauge your own level of play. It helps you understand that Masters is certainly not the cap and it helps players understand that there is still a huge opportunity for improvement. The last point I want to make in that vein is that upsets do happen. I have seen low Masters players defeat the likes of coLRSVP by exploiting weaknesses that they picked up on. No one can win all the time, not even the best and the feeling of success would be that much greater if you can pull it out against the best of the best, not just the sub-par. And that is the most important part of tournaments like this to me. The experience and the challenge. That enormous prize pool just gives you one more drive. And even if you take all of that away, there really isn't a better solution in my mind.
While there is no optimal way to split up leagues, and I understand that you want to have a prize incentive even for lower leagues, the current split is pretty darn ridiculous. You are awarding bronze/silver level players a weekly chance to win $50? None of these players are playing SC purely for the money, but $50 is still a pretty big deal. Even without adding in the problems smurfing will cause, this is completely unfair to everyone who is not a silver league player. Why is it unfair to platinum as well? Because you're 10x better than a silver player, but you're still fighting for the same prize.
If it was completely up to me anything that is not master's would not have any cash prize. Lower leagues should still have prizes, but they should be stuff like free coaching, subscriptions to sites, or season tickets to GSL/NASL etc.
If you really want to incentivize lower leagues with cash prizes as well, I guess that's ok, but please reconsider the prize pool distribution for the respective tiers. It should be Masters/GM >>> Diamond > Gold/Platinum > Silver/Bronze. Something like $200 - $30 - $10 - $5.
Also what's the prize payout for each bracket? I hope it's not winner takes all.
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Anihc you bring some excellent points. Rest assured that me and the staff are quite restless about the backlash from the community in regards to the lower league prize pools.
I can say for sure right now that there will be changes. Will they be for next week, or for the following week? I don't know - that's where we're at right now...we've already announce this event, and so we're not sure if we want to go and change it on people. That being said, many people are not happy with how much we're giving to the lower leagues.
We'll have an announcement shortly
Thank you all for your support, your love, and your criticism...we need all of it in equal portions in order to grow. Wow, that was profound...someone quote that!
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On July 23 2011 06:59 Sympatico wrote:
Thank you all for your support, your love, and your criticism...we need all of it in equal portions in order to grow.
You go girl! xD
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this looks awesome. great for someone just starting out in tourney play
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Canada1637 Posts
Just saw your latest tweet, looks great that you guys are valuing community input so much. I definitely agree a prize pool is important even for a bronze/silver etc tournament, but the size of this encourages smurfing a bit too much IMO and would lead to real problems and probably a full time job of smurf detection, whereas something more like $25, w/ $20 to winner $5 to second place, and a bigger pool for Masters/GM is win win =).
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Nice site, looks great. Keep up the good work!
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this sounds like an amazing idea. As a low masters player I am sure I will get killed but the experience would still be great and would be good motivation
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On July 23 2011 08:27 eVolvE342 wrote:
this sounds like an amazing idea. As a low masters player I am sure I will get killed but the experience would still be great and would be good motivation
Love to see that kind of attitude. Best of luck in the tournament. =)
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EPT
