The National eSports Event StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty 1v1 & 2v2 Tournament A Season 1.
The NE-SE organization has established a multitude of great features throughout the tournament and game web site for all players to enjoy. The NE-SE structure brings a real opportunity for all gamers to earn cash prizes competing in a StarCraft II tournament. With round by round cash prizes, finals competition in Las Vegas, a fully interactive web site Profile System, some of the largest prize pools in North America and more; we promise we are here for the betterment of eSports.
How it works
It is free to register for the website and get access to most of the site’s features, but to participate in the tournament there is a $20 Entry Fee for 1v1 and a $20 Entry Fee for 2v2 ($10 per player).
Upon registering for a tournament your name is entered into the pool of names with all other registered players. From there, 48 hours prior to game play starting on October 3rd, each player will be randomly funneled into one of the many NE-SE four person brackets. You will also receive an email at that time to inform you that the brackets have been uploaded and provide you with more information. If you beat your opponent in your bracket, you fill out a Winner’s Form and then you will be advanced onto the next stage of the bracket. If you defeat your next opponent you will have won that bracket and, by doing so, won the round.
Each player will have one week to complete both games in the round, if you win the first match of the round. Every round will start on Monday and end on Sunday, providing players with ample time to complete all matches casually. This also allows the NE-SE to be more involved with the community and specific/adaptable to every situation. Each tournament has six rounds, seven weeks of total game play, a one week break before the next tournament begins and there are four tournaments per NE-SE Season.
Each Round in the NE-SE has a cash prize amount attached to it starting at $20 and doubling every round thereafter for 6 rounds. Once you have won a round, that prize is your claim even if you are eliminated in a future round. In Round 6, the tournament converts to a Round Robin format called the Final Fifty. In this round players will go head to head for two weeks in scheduled matches which will be displayed in a “delayed” live stream. The top four players or teams with the best records will win the round and as a result, win that tournament. Total prizes to a tournament winner are:
• $1,200+ in cash prizes accumulated throughout all the rounds. • Unlock the “Upload Picture” capability in your NE-SE Profile. • A plus two guest list for an all-expense paid trip to Las Vegas to compete in Finals. • NE-SE Finals :: 1st Place- $30,000 2nd Place- $15,000 3rd Place- $7,500.
As it stands right now each game up until the Final Fifty round of the tournament will be Single Elimination. We are still looking for more feedback regarding the style of the early rounds to determine a final decision by October 1st, 2011.
More Information
You can register on the web site as a Guest or Player to acquire your own NE-SE User Profile. The NE-SE StarCraft 2 Profiles are designed exactly like your Battle.net StarCraft 2 Profiles to provide additional entertaining aspects. Under the My Account tab you can change your preferred race, click Update Profile and watch the background image throughout your entire profile change including when other players view your profile. We have also incorporated some starter Profile Portraits for Official NE-SE Players to choose from.
The NE-SE isn’t simply limited to tournaments. There will be countless amounts of other fun events to involve all parts of the community especially within Team PerfeXion: casters, viewers, artists, along with players. By registering for the website (for free), you can participate and be up to date on these events including the NE-SE Concept Art Competition.
Team PerfeXion
The NE-SE is sponsoring a team and we are inviting everyone to join including both active community members and competitive players to Join Team PerfeXion. The NE-SE Team Leaders have developed a really great system that we are going to establish over the next 6-8 weeks online. There is going to be daily accessible tournaments, interactive bios, coaching sessions and more. You can sign up for the Team today by applying on the NE-SE forums or filling out a registration form on the team perfeXion tab at ne-se.com.
For more information regarding Team PerfeXion see http://ne-se.com/perfexion.html or email one of the Team Leaders at dave@ne-se.com :: frank@ne-se.com.
The NE-SE Organization is built on the foundation of all gamers and we are always going to work and strive to provide maximum entertainment for all gamers. We always appreciate feedback and we have already proven that we look forward to making changes based on the demands of the community. We look forward to bringing you the greatest series of events North America has ever seen and also to seeing you compete and test your skill throughout these events.
Uh your map pool is awful seriously get a new map pool or else everyone will be wasting there time with this tournament. If anyone is wondering what there map pool is here it is.
The maps for 1vs1 include: Agria Valley Blistering Sands Delta Quadrant Desert Oasis Jungle Basin Kulas Ravine Lost Temple Metalopolis Scrap Station Steppes of War Xel'Naga Caverns
You guys should probably put in the OP that it's a $20 entry fee. That's kind of important information to have up front. I didn't even see it on the website until I went to register and got a "Pay Now" button. That's pretty shady IMO.
On July 22 2011 05:41 templar rage wrote: You guys should probably put in the OP that it's a $20 entry fee. That's kind of important information to have up front. I didn't even see it on the website until I went to register and got a "Pay Now" button. That's pretty shady IMO.
On July 22 2011 05:44 5ukkub wrote: IMO this smells like some kind of scam...
Those giant dragons on the main site are supposed to be mutalisks? lol
Its obviously not a scam if they got sponsored on teamliquid man. This is an amazing thing even if there is a $20 entrance fee Now that its mentioned lets move on. Put it in the OP is a good recommendation tho.
It could be a scam. I paid TWICE for my registration and am still directed to the "pay now" screen. Be careful...
Edit: I called "customer service" and my money was refunded.
I was told it was a "pre-registration"' stage and I would receive a confirmation email as well as access to the website in a week. The whole thing seems hastily put together, to me.
On July 22 2011 05:39 Genie1 wrote: Uh your map pool is awful seriously get a new map pool or else everyone will be wasting there time with this tournament. If anyone is wondering what there map pool is here it is.
The maps for 1vs1 include: Agria Valley Blistering Sands Delta Quadrant Desert Oasis Jungle Basin Kulas Ravine Lost Temple Metalopolis Scrap Station Steppes of War Xel'Naga Caverns
also to the people complaining about the $20 fee. look at the prize breakdown per round first. if you win your first round match you get your money back...
Well this doesn't make any sense. Each round is 4 people with 1 advancing. Then the 6th round is 50 people?? In order for that to work mathematically, you'd need
4^5 * 50 entries.... you're not getting in the same area code as 50,000+ entries with a $20 entry fee. Even without you're not getting 50,000 entries.
If you took out that idea so it was 4^6 entries you'd have 4096 spots to fill.... which is conceivable. It would also give you a profit margin (without taking anything but prize pool into account) of ~ $81920 in entry fees - $40320 prize payout = $41600.... which is a profit margin even the casinos would drool over. (ed and obviously if they got the 50K they'd need for the writeup to make sense it'd be 1,000,000 in entry fees....)
Even with a big main event, if it got to that, 40K * 4 = 160000 - 52K in grand prize = over $100K in profits for very little investment overall.
Honestly it feels at best like a scam and I wouldn't feel confident that I'd actually get paid.
It also skirts pretty damn close to anti-gambling laws in the US. IANAL but usually you can't have an entry fee, compete in a game and then get cash prizes as I understand it.
On July 22 2011 05:39 Genie1 wrote: Uh your map pool is awful seriously get a new map pool or else everyone will be wasting there time with this tournament. If anyone is wondering what there map pool is here it is.
The maps for 1vs1 include: Agria Valley Blistering Sands Delta Quadrant Desert Oasis Jungle Basin Kulas Ravine Lost Temple Metalopolis Scrap Station Steppes of War Xel'Naga Caverns
I do wonder what happens if they don't get enough people to fill the brackets as well.
I know a lot of people would think they have a good chance of winning their first group of 4, which would get your money back, but what if there are less rounds due to less participants?
If only 64 people sign up (I believe NASL had under 128 with their sign-up fee) does that mean only 20+40+80 goes to the winner with only 3 rounds? $160 for a $20 sign-up doesn't seem that good
That aside, I think a serious 2v2 tournament would be welcome
On July 22 2011 06:21 TheTrueAmerican wrote: the website background has nazgul from lotr on it
also to the people complaining about the $20 fee. look at the prize breakdown per round first. if you win your first round match you get your money back...
It's not the fact that there's an entry fee, it's the fact that they weren't up front about it. As I stated, I only found out about it when I went to sign up. It is not stated in the OP, and as far as I can see, nowhere on the web site until registration. That's the shady part.
I like the initiative, but it still needs some more work before its 100% legit and professional. They could start by being more up front with the main things of the tournament (entry fee, maps, dates) and get rid of the person talking on the main page, that is so unnecessary. I hope that there is someone in the TL community that works in this organization so they can properly relay feedback to them as well and the best interests of the community.
If the tournament is clean cool, but I think you could run into some problems having the finals 1 year away. Maybe find a way to shorten the tournament just a little bit.
On July 22 2011 05:44 5ukkub wrote: IMO this smells like some kind of scam...
Those giant dragons on the main site are supposed to be mutalisks? lol
Its obviously not a scam if they got sponsored on teamliquid man. This is an amazing thing even if there is a $20 entrance fee Now that its mentioned lets move on. Put it in the OP is a good recommendation tho.
To get a sponsored thread it just cost money, you don't have to be legit. You are not screened or something.
On July 22 2011 06:43 pHaRSiDE wrote: If the tournament is clean cool, but I think you could run into some problems having the finals 1 year away. Maybe find a way to shorten the tournament just a little bit.
On July 22 2011 05:44 5ukkub wrote: IMO this smells like some kind of scam...
Those giant dragons on the main site are supposed to be mutalisks? lol
Its obviously not a scam if they got sponsored on teamliquid man. This is an amazing thing even if there is a $20 entrance fee Now that its mentioned lets move on. Put it in the OP is a good recommendation tho.
To get a sponsored thread it just cost money, you don't have to be legit. You are not screened or something.
Correct, a Sponsored Thread is more a paid advertisement on TL rather than a relationship between TL and the company or product advertised. On some level we do review the Sponsored Threads put up, but it's nowhere near the process of an official event or team or site sponsor (like TeamSpeak).
Please do not take this to mean TL thinks this tournament is not legitimate, because obviously we wouldn't allow this thread if we thought that it was a scam. We have as much information as the public sees right now.
Wow, this is a super sick format. I actually hope more tournaments do something like this, a very good pay structure. (reminds me of chess, you have to pay an entry fee but you also have a much better shot at getting a small amount back) Although the numbers might not add up now that I'm reading through it more.
On July 22 2011 05:39 Genie1 wrote: Uh your map pool is awful seriously get a new map pool or else everyone will be wasting there time with this tournament. If anyone is wondering what there map pool is here it is.
The maps for 1vs1 include: Agria Valley Blistering Sands Delta Quadrant Desert Oasis Jungle Basin Kulas Ravine Lost Temple Metalopolis Scrap Station Steppes of War Xel'Naga Caverns
it says LOST temple. That map pool list was made a LONG time ago.
On July 22 2011 05:39 Genie1 wrote: Uh your map pool is awful seriously get a new map pool or else everyone will be wasting there time with this tournament. If anyone is wondering what there map pool is here it is.
The maps for 1vs1 include: Agria Valley Blistering Sands Delta Quadrant Desert Oasis Jungle Basin Kulas Ravine Lost Temple Metalopolis Scrap Station Steppes of War Xel'Naga Caverns
I couldn't agree more. They need to update their map pool or this tournament will fail. Try and use some GSL maps, like that beach map
Thank you everyone for all of your feedback. We have made several changes from day 1, 16 months ago, when we started this event based on player feedback. We have announced our map pool and will certainly make extensive changes based on the feedback you all have provided. We will load a new map list by the end of next week and we hope to see your feedback again!
Please keep in mind this is our pre-registration phase and our formal launch is scheduled for August 1st. At that time, the many interactive features of the web site will be available. We have provided several videos on the web site to prevent anyone from having to read text. We feel it is far easier to listen to a message than to sit down and read 2 pages of text. We do apologize if you are caught off guard or even remotely annoyed by the person talking on the site, but I can assure you it is there for your own benefit. The interactive profiles and bracket system on the site are detailed, intense features that are very easy to follow and use. We hope to see more feedback from all of you when the site is fully launched and announced throughout Blizzard on August 1st.
We are also sponsoring a tournament with ItsGoSu eSports that is a 64 person invitational scheduled for August 3rd and 4th. We will continue to host and sponsor many side tournaments as well as our own event throughout the year. It is our overall goal to provide the best possible gaming environment for everyone to compete in. If you have any feedback, ideas or suggestions we are always interested in hearing what you have to say and making changes on our end. For any questions, comments, concerns or inquiries of any kind please feel free to email us at eSports@ne-se.com, especially if you are looking for a response.
For something that is 16 months in the making you think you'd have the foresight to double check all information on your website to make sure it's relevant. What's another few day delay on the announcement to check.
It's a really innovative system to run the tournament with but you are botching the presentation and making yourself look like a scam. I hope this is legit as it has great potential.
i think probably my math is wrong but for me i look at this and scratch my head it seems the company is making an incredible amount of money and not paying out very much
i wanted to figure out how many people were needed for 6 rounds of this and how much was given away compared to how much was put in at the start to get those 6 rounds somewhere my numbers are funky so im not sure if its 100 percent right
(r = round, p = profit for nese) r1 20x4=80 profit -20 payout r1=60 $ profit per group in round of 1 4 players are needed r2 60(p for group) x 4= 240 - 40(payout for winner) r2=200 16 players are needed r3 200(p for group) x 4=800 - 80(payout for winner) r3=720 64 players are needed r4 720(p for each group) x 4= 2880 -160(") r4=2720 256 players are needed r5 2720(") x 4= 10880 -320(") r5=10560 1024 players are needed r6 10560(") x 4= 42240 -640(") r6= 41600 4096 players are needed
r6 4096 x 20 = 81920 - 41600(profit) = 40320 given away to players
r5 1024 x 20 = 20480 - 10560(profit) = 9920 given away to players
so according to my math (trust me im not very confident im doing this right) at r6 they are raking in 41600 pure profit while giving away slightly less
obviously i doubt they will get half that many participants which i dont know what it means, as there doesnt seem to be much information
i would warn not to play this tournament as more then half of the money payed is actually not going back to the players. I dont know if this is a scam but it seems definately created to make alot of money off of the players some one tell me im way off my rocker they seem to be pocketing alot of money and managing to pay out very little comparitive
On July 22 2011 05:39 Genie1 wrote: Uh your map pool is awful seriously get a new map pool or else everyone will be wasting there time with this tournament. If anyone is wondering what there map pool is here it is.
The maps for 1vs1 include: Agria Valley Blistering Sands Delta Quadrant Desert Oasis Jungle Basin Kulas Ravine Lost Temple Metalopolis Scrap Station Steppes of War Xel'Naga Caverns
I think that is old information. If you follow their link to the z33k brackets, it says:
On July 22 2011 05:39 Genie1 wrote: Uh your map pool is awful seriously get a new map pool or else everyone will be wasting there time with this tournament. If anyone is wondering what there map pool is here it is.
The maps for 1vs1 include: Agria Valley Blistering Sands Delta Quadrant Desert Oasis Jungle Basin Kulas Ravine Lost Temple Metalopolis Scrap Station Steppes of War Xel'Naga Caverns
I cannot guarantee that I fully understand what you have put together up there, but it seems you believe there is an entry fee every round? There is a one time fee of $20 for 1v1 and 2v2. If you win round 1 you earn $20, if you win round 2 you earn $40, that is a total of $60 minus the $20 you registered with. Each round the prize amount continues to double and there is still never another entry fee. Then at the end of the tournament, four players and teams will deemed winners and those players will all receive a plus two guest list for all-expense paid trip to Las Vegas. In Las Vegas, they will compete in a 16 person/team final which includes: $30,000 1st Place, $15,000 2nd Place, $7,500 3rd Place. At this point in time it is not our concern to profit, we are solely focused on eSports in the United States. This is why we have been working on this project for over 17 months now and have just recently published the web site. We have yet to even make our formal announcements based on the fact our Official Launch date is August 1st. Our goal is to acquire as much feedback as possible during this time so we can modify our event as best as possible according to the public. I assure you we are No scam and we are an Officially licensed StarCraft 2 Tournament Organizer with Blizzard Entertainment. We are confident to an extent that I would personally love to go over all of our foci, ideas and anything else you are interested in hearing in a Private or Public setting. Whichever you prefer, if you prefer it at all.
We have taken everyone's feedback into consideration regarding our choice of map pools. We will be publishing a brand new map list according to more specific feedback on our forums by next week's end. We will attempt to publish that list on Team Liquid forums to acquire everyone's feedback again. We truly appreciate all of your feedback and we hope you will continue to provide us with more great feedback.
Honestly, I doubt the tournament will make money based on the entry fees.
While it is true that If they filled each of the tournaments with thousands of people they'd make a tidy profit, but that's not realistic.
Let's say they get 128 people in each tournament. That's a reasonable expectation I believe, as it's what NASL got with a lower entry fee, but fewer payouts (eg, harder to actually get any money)
If this is the case, they make about $5k on the entry fees from each of the four qualifier tournaments. Consider the top 4 from each goto a final tournament for $52.5k. Additionally, they pay for the trip expenses to Vegas, which although I don't know the details of, I will randomly guess at $1.5k each for 16 players. That's another 24k putting the costs at about $80k. To top this off, they are going to rent the venue and probably pay the casters and staff. To simply break even on the prize money alone, they would need sign up an average of 2000 people in each of the four qualifiers. This would give them +$20k for each of the qualifiers, which would then pay for the finals.
Personally, I don't think that many people will sign up with a $20 entry fee.
On July 22 2011 10:53 Saishuuheiki wrote: Honestly, I doubt the tournament will make money based on the entry fees.
While it is true that If they filled each of the tournaments with thousands of people they'd make a tidy profit, but that's not realistic.
Let's say they get 128 people in each tournament. That's a reasonable expectation I believe, as it's what NASL got with a lower entry fee, but fewer payouts (eg, harder to actually get any money)
If this is the case, they make about $5k on the entry fees from each of the four qualifier tournaments. Consider the top 4 from each goto a final tournament for $52.5k. Additionally, they pay for the trip expenses to Vegas, which although I don't know the details of, I will randomly guess at $1.5k each for 16 players. That's another 24k putting the costs at about $80k. To top this off, they are going to rent the venue and probably pay the casters and staff. To simply break even on the prize money alone, they would need sign up an average of 2000 people in each of the four qualifiers. This would give them +$20k for each of the qualifiers, which would then pay for the finals.
Personally, I don't think that many people will sign up with a $20 entry fee.
You forgot to mention that the matches are streamed, so they will also be making money from the stream, sponsors, and various other ways, such as in other tournaments suchas the NASL where there was no entry fee (save for the open bracket).
There's something about reaching 50 players and turning into a 50 player round robin until 4 people remain.
I just don't get it. How do you even make it to 50 players when it's multiples of 4 the entire time?
Claiming 25% of people get paid is a bit deceptive too, 25% of people will break even, 6% will make any profit in a given qualifier. It's just a weird selling point to me.
If you've really been at this for 17 months and it is still so confusing I think there might be a problem
So they have been preparing this tournament for 17 months, in other words, 5 months before the game was even released....what has taken this long, it smells like such a scam and lots of stuff is confusing
On July 22 2011 06:43 pHaRSiDE wrote: If the tournament is clean cool, but I think you could run into some problems having the finals 1 year away. Maybe find a way to shorten the tournament just a little bit.
On July 22 2011 05:56 ComaDose wrote:
On July 22 2011 05:44 5ukkub wrote: IMO this smells like some kind of scam...
Those giant dragons on the main site are supposed to be mutalisks? lol
Its obviously not a scam if they got sponsored on teamliquid man. This is an amazing thing even if there is a $20 entrance fee Now that its mentioned lets move on. Put it in the OP is a good recommendation tho.
To get a sponsored thread it just cost money, you don't have to be legit. You are not screened or something.
Correct, a Sponsored Thread is more a paid advertisement on TL rather than a relationship between TL and the company or product advertised. On some level we do review the Sponsored Threads put up, but it's nowhere near the process of an official event or team or site sponsor (like TeamSpeak).
Please do not take this to mean TL thinks this tournament is not legitimate, because obviously we wouldn't allow this thread if we thought that it was a scam. We have as much information as the public sees right now.
Hot_Bid, please do some basic research. This tournament is definitely a scam. They also tried it under a different name a few months ago ( http://www.thegamingworldseries.com ) and also a year ago with the same name, and both times, all the signup money went missing and nothing was ever mentioned again. Owner of the website is a night club owner in Vegas. This is most definitely a scam.
I cannot guarantee that I fully understand what you have put together up there, but it seems you believe there is an entry fee every round? There is a one time fee of $20 for 1v1 and 2v2. If you win round 1 you earn $20, if you win round 2 you earn $40, that is a total of $60 minus the $20 you registered with. Each round the prize amount continues to double and there is still never another entry fee. Then at the end of the tournament, four players and teams will deemed winners and those players will all receive a plus two guest list for all-expense paid trip to Las Vegas. In Las Vegas, they will compete in a 16 person/team final which includes: $30,000 1st Place, $15,000 2nd Place, $7,500 3rd Place. At this point in time it is not our concern to profit, we are solely focused on eSports in the United States. This is why we have been working on this project for over 17 months now and have just recently published the web site. We have yet to even make our formal announcements based on the fact our Official Launch date is August 1st. Our goal is to acquire as much feedback as possible during this time so we can modify our event as best as possible according to the public. I assure you we are No scam and we are an Officially licensed StarCraft 2 Tournament Organizer with Blizzard Entertainment. We are confident to an extent that I would personally love to go over all of our foci, ideas and anything else you are interested in hearing in a Private or Public setting. Whichever you prefer, if you prefer it at all.
NO no i do not believe there is an entry cost every round, im saying as you progress through the tournament theres alot of money sneaking through the cracks, that u guys are making
If we pretend this is a 64 man tournament with 3 rounds r1 20x4=80 gross for NESE -20 payout, so you make 60 dollars per group but in a 64 man tournament there are 16 groups netting you a total of 60 dollars times the number of groups(16) which equals 960 $ then there are the next rounds which u lose money from that initial 960
r2 16 people left, all play in groups of 4, 4 groups which means only 4 people get 80 dollars. 80 x 4 equals 320 which minuses from the 960 equals 640
and there are only 4 more people left which means one more round where the last guy gets 160 dollars
meaning u get 480 while total given out is 800 so somewhere in my intial post i screwd up math...as expected cause im terrible at it. But each round its increases significantly ill look over origional post cause there was something wrong
EDIT: looks like this is a scam anyways, so even though im terrible at math, the creators of this scam are much worse at convincing people like me
On July 22 2011 06:43 pHaRSiDE wrote: If the tournament is clean cool, but I think you could run into some problems having the finals 1 year away. Maybe find a way to shorten the tournament just a little bit.
On July 22 2011 05:56 ComaDose wrote:
On July 22 2011 05:44 5ukkub wrote: IMO this smells like some kind of scam...
Those giant dragons on the main site are supposed to be mutalisks? lol
Its obviously not a scam if they got sponsored on teamliquid man. This is an amazing thing even if there is a $20 entrance fee Now that its mentioned lets move on. Put it in the OP is a good recommendation tho.
To get a sponsored thread it just cost money, you don't have to be legit. You are not screened or something.
Correct, a Sponsored Thread is more a paid advertisement on TL rather than a relationship between TL and the company or product advertised. On some level we do review the Sponsored Threads put up, but it's nowhere near the process of an official event or team or site sponsor (like TeamSpeak).
Please do not take this to mean TL thinks this tournament is not legitimate, because obviously we wouldn't allow this thread if we thought that it was a scam. We have as much information as the public sees right now.
Hot_Bid, please do some basic research. This tournament is definitely a scam. They also tried it under a different name a few months ago ( http://www.thegamingworldseries.com ) and also a year ago with the same name, and both times, all the signup money went missing and nothing was ever mentioned again. Owner of the website is a night club owner in Vegas. This is most definitely a scam.
Detective G2Wolf is on the case! Those websites O_O
Wow, if this is indeed a scam, this thread needs to be removed asap.. I really hope no one has wasted their money on this already. The horrible disconnect map pool and the retarded tournament dates sure did give it away. Should you win the first tournament you would be waiting 7 months for the finals.... 7 MONTHS!
And to the owner of this mess, why in the hell is it necessary to scam people out of their money in this game? I guess the growing of esports comes with good, and also the bad like scam artist such as this guy.
On July 22 2011 06:43 pHaRSiDE wrote: If the tournament is clean cool, but I think you could run into some problems having the finals 1 year away. Maybe find a way to shorten the tournament just a little bit.
On July 22 2011 05:56 ComaDose wrote:
On July 22 2011 05:44 5ukkub wrote: IMO this smells like some kind of scam...
Those giant dragons on the main site are supposed to be mutalisks? lol
Its obviously not a scam if they got sponsored on teamliquid man. This is an amazing thing even if there is a $20 entrance fee Now that its mentioned lets move on. Put it in the OP is a good recommendation tho.
To get a sponsored thread it just cost money, you don't have to be legit. You are not screened or something.
Correct, a Sponsored Thread is more a paid advertisement on TL rather than a relationship between TL and the company or product advertised. On some level we do review the Sponsored Threads put up, but it's nowhere near the process of an official event or team or site sponsor (like TeamSpeak).
Please do not take this to mean TL thinks this tournament is not legitimate, because obviously we wouldn't allow this thread if we thought that it was a scam. We have as much information as the public sees right now.
Hot_Bid, please do some basic research. This tournament is definitely a scam. They also tried it under a different name a few months ago ( http://www.thegamingworldseries.com ) and also a year ago with the same name, and both times, all the signup money went missing and nothing was ever mentioned again. Owner of the website is a night club owner in Vegas. This is most definitely a scam.
Detective G2Wolf is on the case! Those websites O_O
WOW!!! It is indeed a scam!!! TL should IP ban the one who created this thread!
On July 22 2011 12:24 pHaRSiDE wrote: Its definitely now time to start screening who gets sponsored threads, this stuff is damaging.
Agreed, even if they have no formal partnership with TL.net, it certainly appears that TL endorses each sponsored thread, and some kind of screening is needed. What's stopping me form buying a sponsored thread with the exact same details and my own website.
There has even been some proof provided in this thread, yet it remains open.
Does not look good on the website. Maybe it's time to rethink the advertising policy or something.
On July 22 2011 10:10 tQArchaic wrote: i think probably my math is wrong but for me i look at this and scratch my head it seems the company is making an incredible amount of money and not paying out very much
i wanted to figure out how many people were needed for 6 rounds of this and how much was given away compared to how much was put in at the start to get those 6 rounds somewhere my numbers are funky so im not sure if its 100 percent right
(r = round, p = profit for nese) r1 20x4=80 profit -20 payout r1=60 $ profit per group in round of 1 4 players are needed r2 60(p for group) x 4= 240 - 40(payout for winner) r2=200 16 players are needed r3 200(p for group) x 4=800 - 80(payout for winner) r3=720 64 players are needed r4 720(p for each group) x 4= 2880 -160(") r4=2720 256 players are needed r5 2720(") x 4= 10880 -320(") r5=10560 1024 players are needed r6 10560(") x 4= 42240 -640(") r6= 41600 4096 players are needed
r6 4096 x 20 = 81920 - 41600(profit) = 40320 given away to players
r5 1024 x 20 = 20480 - 10560(profit) = 9920 given away to players
so according to my math (trust me im not very confident im doing this right) at r6 they are raking in 41600 pure profit while giving away slightly less
obviously i doubt they will get half that many participants which i dont know what it means, as there doesnt seem to be much information
i would warn not to play this tournament as more then half of the money payed is actually not going back to the players. I dont know if this is a scam but it seems definately created to make alot of money off of the players some one tell me im way off my rocker they seem to be pocketing alot of money and managing to pay out very little comparitive
Your math doesn't really make sense. It's pretty simple the way I'm reading it.
A basic example of a 128 person tourney:
payin to participate, minus payouts for each round (128 x 20) - (64 x 20) - (32 x 40) - (16 x 80) - (8 x 160) - (4 x 320) - (2 x 640) - 1280 = $ -6400
net contribution of $6400 from them towards the prize pool.
If this is really sanctioned by Blizzard it'd be cool if they could acknowledge it. It seems like a decent idea. It being an open tourney, but requiring an entry fee to keep it to serious players only.
On July 22 2011 10:10 tQArchaic wrote: i think probably my math is wrong but for me i look at this and scratch my head it seems the company is making an incredible amount of money and not paying out very much
i wanted to figure out how many people were needed for 6 rounds of this and how much was given away compared to how much was put in at the start to get those 6 rounds somewhere my numbers are funky so im not sure if its 100 percent right
(r = round, p = profit for nese) r1 20x4=80 profit -20 payout r1=60 $ profit per group in round of 1 4 players are needed r2 60(p for group) x 4= 240 - 40(payout for winner) r2=200 16 players are needed r3 200(p for group) x 4=800 - 80(payout for winner) r3=720 64 players are needed r4 720(p for each group) x 4= 2880 -160(") r4=2720 256 players are needed r5 2720(") x 4= 10880 -320(") r5=10560 1024 players are needed r6 10560(") x 4= 42240 -640(") r6= 41600 4096 players are needed
r6 4096 x 20 = 81920 - 41600(profit) = 40320 given away to players
r5 1024 x 20 = 20480 - 10560(profit) = 9920 given away to players
so according to my math (trust me im not very confident im doing this right) at r6 they are raking in 41600 pure profit while giving away slightly less
obviously i doubt they will get half that many participants which i dont know what it means, as there doesnt seem to be much information
i would warn not to play this tournament as more then half of the money payed is actually not going back to the players. I dont know if this is a scam but it seems definately created to make alot of money off of the players some one tell me im way off my rocker they seem to be pocketing alot of money and managing to pay out very little comparitive
Your math doesn't really make sense. It's pretty simple the way I'm reading it.
A basic example of a 128 person tourney:
(payin) round 2 rnd 3 rnd4 rnd5 rn6 rnd7 rnd8 (128 x 20) - (64 x 20) - (32 x 40) - (16 x 80) - (8 x 160) - (4 x 320) - (2 x 640) - 1280 = $ -6400
net contribution of $6400 from them towards the prize pool.
You obviously didn't read the crazy format they're (not really) doing.
It is incredible how extensive some of your research actually is. Please let me put all your minds to rest. As I said earlier we have been working on this project for over 17 months now. We have been changing and adapting our event based on public feedback and have NEVER started a registration EVER until this actual pre-launch. Our previous formats received great feedback and we elected to take our time with this event and work diligently towards providing the best possible environment. The Gaming World Series was the previous name of this exact same event and we are the same exact owners. We did not scam anyone nor did we do any formal announcements. Unfortunately with our format there are multiple levels of legal parameters in which we must fall within. This caused us to re-vamp our event slightly on two different occasions. Along with that information and the feedback received from players we felt it was best to re-design everything and start fresh. We did not take anyone's money nor did we ever feature an event, it was simply as splash page web site that was available and that is all. We will be featuring formal announcements throughout Blizzard's StarCraft 2 web sites and forums on August 1st. This event is not a scam, but being involved in the gaming community as long as we have we can certainly appreciate your positions. The simple fact of the matter is that we elected to spend all our money on the prize pools for the people instead of paying big names to join our team. We chose the people as Our major focus assuming if we could put together the best possible event it would not matter if we had big names involved. We will continue to work through this approval process as we do understand everyone's feelings. We will also work towards getting some professional figures involved with the tournament to create more legitimacy amongst the public. Unfortunately, a lot of pro figures are not willing to attach themselves to new events unless they have already proven themselves successful. We will continue to work towards this goal regardless. I also would like to apologize for any confusion that we have caused in our representation thus far. We are a new organization in terms of dealing directly with the gaming community and we are hoping to have everyone's support. We will always work on our production so long as we continue to have your support and feedback. It is not our goal in any way, shape or form to create any hostility or bad feelings with ANY member of the community. We are willing to engage in 1 on 1 conversations with anyone who is looking to have their voice heard. We will also continue to improve everything we have to offer and by August 1st the full NeSE site will be available. Which includes several interactive features like the User Profiles and Bracket System. Please allow me to formally apologize on behalf of the NeSE in not putting out a more flawless representation of ourselves. A lot of time and thought went into all of this and we were sure we had all of our angles covered. Clearly you have all pointed out some things we should have taken a better look at and I promise we will do so. We really encourage feedback we just wish your approach was slightly less hostile as we have already received very negative private messages here. We are really here to improve eSports in the United States as best as we possibly can and we are certainly here to stay. Team Liquid absolutely went through an extensive due diligence process before accepting our sponsored thread for posting. You will also see formal recognition on Blizzard's behalf in our announcements throughout their pages on August 1st. Thank you all for your feedback and we look forward to continuously providing as many events as possible. We are sponsoring a tournament with ItsGoSu eSports that will be taking place August 3rd and 4th and more in the future. If there is anything we can personally do to ensue personally reassurance, please feel free to post here or email us at eSports@ne-se.com
I read what you wrote, but I really would advocate going back and adding in some space to create paragraphs if you want a decent amount of people to read it.
Regardless, seems pretty legit but I think until Blizzard really shows their approval people will remain skeptical.
I have had a chance to thoroughly read the rest of your posts regarding our prize pool. The prize pool finances are provided before a tournament even ensues, that is the policy of Blizzard Entertainment. The exact amount of cash prizes that go out are determined solely by the amount of people that register for the tournament. As some of you have already clearly stated in this thread, the only way the NeSE would even turn a profit on registrations is if there were an Insane amount of registrations. The tournament is designed to be accessible to all players and also provide everyone with a real opportunity to win. Yes 25% of ALL players are guaranteed to win Every round and all of those players each round will be PAID for winning that round. Just because you won the amount that you registered for does not mean the NeSE will not be writing you a personalized check for that amount. There is no confusion there nor is it a selling point. We are not broadcasting as though we are some sort of spammers, if anything we are very particular about where we represent ourselves. The NeSE is not here to turn a profit. We are working towards a very long term goal in the gaming community that does not involve any short term profits. Although we do definitely appreciate everyone's concerns regarding the survival of the NeSE Organization. I assure you the NeSE has all of the financial angles covered and we are even making strides towards making the registration fee non-existent. We agree 100% that the only thing preventing this from being the coolest tournament out there is the entry fee. So, we have to ask you to support us and stand by us as the gaming community and if you do, we promise to work solely on your behalf. We have already made great strides in the production aspect of gaming broadcasts and we look forward to presenting all that to everyone at our Finals.
I agree with you 100% Adebisi, our main goal with the TL sponsored threads and general advertisements is to "get the word out" so to speak. This way when people do see the announcements on Blizzard web sites they will have already heard about the NeSE. In turn, that should help a great deal with proving the overall legitimacy of the NeSE.
On July 22 2011 12:54 NeSE wrote: It is incredible how extensive some of your research actually is. Please let me put all your minds to rest. As I said earlier we have been working on this project for over 17 months now. We have been changing and adapting our event based on public feedback and have NEVER started a registration EVER until this actual pre-launch. Our previous formats received great feedback and we elected to take our time with this event and work diligently towards providing the best possible environment. The Gaming World Series was the previous name of this exact same event and we are the same exact owners. We did not scam anyone nor did we do any formal announcements. Unfortunately with our format there are multiple levels of legal parameters in which we must fall within. This caused us to re-vamp our event slightly on two different occasions. Along with that information and the feedback received from players we felt it was best to re-design everything and start fresh. We did not take anyone's money nor did we ever feature an event, it was simply as splash page web site that was available and that is all. We will be featuring formal announcements throughout Blizzard's StarCraft 2 web sites and forums on August 1st. This event is not a scam, but being involved in the gaming community as long as we have we can certainly appreciate your positions. The simple fact of the matter is that we elected to spend all our money on the prize pools for the people instead of paying big names to join our team. We chose the people as Our major focus assuming if we could put together the best possible event it would not matter if we had big names involved. We will continue to work through this approval process as we do understand everyone's feelings. We will also work towards getting some professional figures involved with the tournament to create more legitimacy amongst the public. Unfortunately, a lot of pro figures are not willing to attach themselves to new events unless they have already proven themselves successful. We will continue to work towards this goal regardless. I also would like to apologize for any confusion that we have caused in our representation thus far. We are a new organization in terms of dealing directly with the gaming community and we are hoping to have everyone's support. We will always work on our production so long as we continue to have your support and feedback. It is not our goal in any way, shape or form to create any hostility or bad feelings with ANY member of the community. We are willing to engage in 1 on 1 conversations with anyone who is looking to have their voice heard. We will also continue to improve everything we have to offer and by August 1st the full NeSE site will be available. Which includes several interactive features like the User Profiles and Bracket System. Please allow me to formally apologize on behalf of the NeSE in not putting out a more flawless representation of ourselves. A lot of time and thought went into all of this and we were sure we had all of our angles covered. Clearly you have all pointed out some things we should have taken a better look at and I promise we will do so. We really encourage feedback we just wish your approach was slightly less hostile as we have already received very negative private messages here. We are really here to improve eSports in the United States as best as we possibly can and we are certainly here to stay. Team Liquid absolutely went through an extensive due diligence process before accepting our sponsored thread for posting. You will also see formal recognition on Blizzard's behalf in our announcements throughout their pages on August 1st. Thank you all for your feedback and we look forward to continuously providing as many events as possible. We are sponsoring a tournament with ItsGoSu eSports that will be taking place August 3rd and 4th and more in the future. If there is anything we can personally do to ensue personally reassurance, please feel free to post here or email us at eSports@ne-se.com
Seriously? LEARN TO USE PARAGRAPHS, they are helpful and make me not go cross eyed reading your totally useless post.
You have alot of things to clarify and a whole shit ton of people to set at ease before ANYONE is going to buy in to your tourney, making your post incredibly difficult to read is probably where you want to be going with this 17month idea.
On a second note if this is indeed an idea that has been actively worked on for nearly a year and a half and yet you cannot get 1, I repeat ONE credible community member to back you are already failed.
Please go back to Gambling and Drinking, because it is clearly much better suited to you.
On July 22 2011 13:10 NeSE wrote: I have had a chance to thoroughly read the rest of your posts regarding our prize pool. The prize pool finances are provided before a tournament even ensues, that is the policy of Blizzard Entertainment. The exact amount of cash prizes that go out are determined solely by the amount of people that register for the tournament. As some of you have already clearly stated in this thread, the only way the NeSE would even turn a profit on registrations is if there were an Insane amount of registrations. The tournament is designed to be accessible to all players and also provide everyone with a real opportunity to win. Yes 25% of ALL players are guaranteed to win Every round and all of those players each round will be PAID for winning that round. Just because you won the amount that you registered for does not mean the NeSE will not be writing you a personalized check for that amount. There is no confusion there nor is it a selling point. We are not broadcasting as though we are some sort of spammers, if anything we are very particular about where we represent ourselves. The NeSE is not here to turn a profit. We are working towards a very long term goal in the gaming community that does not involve any short term profits. Although we do definitely appreciate everyone's concerns regarding the survival of the NeSE Organization. I assure you the NeSE has all of the financial angles covered and we are even making strides towards making the registration fee non-existent. We agree 100% that the only thing preventing this from being the coolest tournament out there is the entry fee. So, we have to ask you to support us and stand by us as the gaming community and if you do, we promise to work solely on your behalf. We have already made great strides in the production aspect of gaming broadcasts and we look forward to presenting all that to everyone at our Finals.
Are you telling me that each round is a Group of 4? holy shit you guys make a shit ton of money. All of Archaic's numbers were based on 1 Ro4 into 1v1 single elim bracket.
On July 22 2011 12:54 NeSE wrote: <huge wall of text>
Sounds like the same excuse used last year http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1252366991 You guys always use the "Wait for <the first of next month> for Blizzard confirmation" excuse or just happened to forget you've used it before?
There are 2 different audio's on the www.ne-se.com web site that both explain all aspects of the tournament. There are over 5 different forum threads that give individual descriptions of each section of the tournament. The NeSE is not going to explain its profit/loss margin nor other internal aspects of the organization publicly on our web site or any web site. All the facts about the tournament are posted clearly at the beginning of this thread.
There is a 1v1 and 2v2 setting available. Our structure is comprised of many Four Person Brackets which forces 1 of every 4 participants to win each round. The point of this system is to give everyone a real chance at winning cash prizes whereas 98% of tournaments today pay the top 3 players.
The last round of each tournament is the Final Fifty where we convert to a round robin style. Here the top 50 players go head to head in two weeks of scheduled matches. The point of this system to create as much viewership opportunities as humanly possible. Regarding additional revenue here: If you read anything on our web site you would know any person who registers for the tournament is able to watch the event in HD at no extra cost.
The four winners from the Final Fifty round not only get to compete for a $30,000 1st place prize but also a plus two guest list for an all-expense paid trip to Las Vegas Where they will compete! The point of this is to provide a totally new environment for the gaming community to enjoy an event at. We think it might be a better idea to host our finals in Las Vegas as opposed to the more commonly used areas like Columbus and Anaheim. This will provide everyone who attends the event with far better extra activities to pursue if they should so choose.
We have also spent a great deal of time, effort and money on our web site and that revolves solely around the gaming community. We are providing a near mimic of StarCraft II Battle.net User Interface with all of the aspects of the site. The only reason we have gone to such lengths is to bring the best possible gaming environment that EVERYONE and ANYONE can be a part of! This link shows you everything that comes along with registering in the NeSE and everything listed here is based on feedback we received over time and changes we made based on that feedback.
Sounds like the same excuse used last year http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1252366991 You guys always use the "Wait for <the first of next month> for Blizzard confirmation" excuse or just happened to forget you've used it before?
I am so glad you pointed that exact post out, I was going to myself. As I had previously stated we experienced some legal deterrence and were forced to slightly re-vamp the format of the tournament. That particular instance was the closest we were to launching on our scheduled announcement date. Again, I can assure you that the announcements will appear throughout Blizzard sites on August 1st. Would I go to such lengths and continuously say that if I was making it up?
Sounds like the same excuse used last year http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1252366991 You guys always use the "Wait for <the first of next month> for Blizzard confirmation" excuse or just happened to forget you've used it before?
I am so glad you pointed that exact post out, I was going to myself. As I had previously stated we experienced some legal deterrence and were forced to slightly re-vamp the format of the tournament. That particular instance was the closest we were to launching on our scheduled announcement date. Again, I can assure you that the announcements will appear throughout Blizzard sites on August 1st. Would I go to such lengths and continuously say that if I was making it up?
On July 22 2011 13:19 GGzerG wrote: I don't think Blizzard would work with anyone who can't even use paragraphs correctly, that right there is the icing on the cake.
Very true. I must admit this influx of posts has left me somewhat flustered and my grammatical structure is lacking because of it. I will continue to work on my text appearance, no sarcasm involved, you are 100% correct.
Sounds like the same excuse used last year http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1252366991 You guys always use the "Wait for <the first of next month> for Blizzard confirmation" excuse or just happened to forget you've used it before?
I am so glad you pointed that exact post out, I was going to myself. As I had previously stated we experienced some legal deterrence and were forced to slightly re-vamp the format of the tournament. That particular instance was the closest we were to launching on our scheduled announcement date. Again, I can assure you that the announcements will appear throughout Blizzard sites on August 1st. Would I go to such lengths and continuously say that if I was making it up?
Yes.
Well if someone would lie I certainly cannot speak for them. I myself am a member of an organization and I am representing an entity far larger than just me. So, it would not be in my best personal interest to implore any fictitious remarks especially not in a public setting.
NeSE why in the world would you change the name of the organization within few months? Also can you explain all the pornographic links on your guys old site on the forum? I don't think legit website would allow pornographic links on their website and allow even 13 year old see that.....
On July 22 2011 10:08 Magrath wrote: For something that is 16 months in the making you think you'd have the foresight to double check all information on your website to make sure it's relevant. What's another few day delay on the announcement to check.
It's a really innovative system to run the tournament with but you are botching the presentation and making yourself look like a scam. I hope this is legit as it has great potential.
What would you have done differently? I understand this is text so sometimes truth can be mistaken for sarcasm. I will never post anything sarcastically and I genuinely value your opinion. What would you have done differently than what we had done Magrath?
On July 22 2011 13:37 Kuchcio wrote: NeSE why in the world would you change the name of the organization within few months? Also can you explain all the pornographic links on your guys old site on the forum? I don't think legit website would allow pornographic links on their website and allow even 13 year old see that.....
Not to mention the legal actions that could easily occur from this, such as fines or arrests.
On July 22 2011 13:37 Kuchcio wrote: NeSE why in the world would you change the name of the organization within few months? Also can you explain all the pornographic links on your guys old site on the forum? I don't think legit website would allow pornographic links on their website and allow even 13 year old see that.....
We elected to change the name because we had experienced some internal transitions and a new name was the best route for us to purse. Regarding the pornographic postings you mentioned, I just visited the site myself and saw what you were referring too. That site has been shut down since the beginning of May and I have not had any dealings with that domain since then. Though it is clear it needs to be taken down entirely, which I will accomplish tomorrow, we did not expect to receive feedback regarding the old event.
Believe me when I tell you I was pretty surprised to see anyone even mention the old name because we had a total of 300 hits to that web site in the month it was operational and those hits were from the programmers, designers and other employees. To be honest I wish I had known people actually knew about The Gaming World Series, we would have fought harder to preserve the name.
On July 22 2011 13:37 Kuchcio wrote: NeSE why in the world would you change the name of the organization within few months? Also can you explain all the pornographic links on your guys old site on the forum? I don't think legit website would allow pornographic links on their website and allow even 13 year old see that.....
Not to mention the legal actions that could easily occur from this, such as fines or arrests.
I am not sure what you are referring to. What legal actions could occur and from what? If you are referring to the legal changing of the tournament name that is a very simple process. The NeSE is a subsidiary under a corporate umbrella, to change the name or anything about a subsidiary is a fairly quick and easy process. You must also remember it was not OUR decision to change the name of the tournament so that also made the changing easier. If you are referring to the pornographic posts all I can say is we will be removing that web site as soon as possible.
NeSE... being a Director of a gaming organization myself.. I have found that the key in creating relationships with communities is a lot about letting the community get to know you.
It may be a good idea to introduce yourself.. tell these fine folks on the TL thread who you are.. and what your background in eSports is.
I am very curious myself.
I was one of the first to see this as a scam.. but I am more then willing to listen. The idea of a 'bunch of 4 participant brackets'.. is a good idea. Although not new.. it has not been used a lot. I personally have advocated for a similar structure in the past.. but as you can see.. its like herding kittens to get people to jump on board. However, in this case.. I think most of us here are more skeptical of your organization then anything. I personally do not think you have to have 'top names' supporting this for it to be real. (that's another rant on my part for another day!!).. so I guess what I would like to hear .. is a bit more about you. It does come off as odd that your responses are so well written..but with little spacing.. just odd.. not sure why it bugs me.
NeSE as wolf showed you it was about to happen last year, but out of no where everything died. Now out of no where, you guys are coming back this is fishy, I would except from someone serious a statement between the gaps of what is happening to let the community know.... Also since the website is online, and you guys are owners you guys can face legal actions such as fines or arrest for allowing pornographic materials get to the minors, but that is the only thing I know since I am not a lawyer
You want to break any fears people have? Post your blizzard tournament license. You are charging an entry fee and your prize is over $5k. Post your license or you will remain a fraud to me.
Classic pyramid scheme. For every person that makes it to the 6th round (getting first in a 4096 man tourney) they (Ne-Se) make around $40,000. The best part about this is that they don't need to do anything; they don't even need to have the players go a full 6 rounds or any amount of rounds for that matter, to make a profit. Everything is automated!
Find a way to have Blizzard acknowledge that this is legitimate. That or show us somehow yourself. The burden of proving legitimacy falls on you. You are asking us to pay for something; to just blindly believe this tournament is what you say it is with all the shady stuff posted in this thread would be stupid.
Enough about the tournament, you wanting feedback, etc.
Pharside, I cannot publicly post that as I was going to post it and the response I received from Blizzard is that is Not public information. They will be posting our tournament up their sites though to ensure legitimacy.
Kuchcio, on our end it was not an "out of nowhere" up and leaving and to be honest we did not make any formal announcements and based on our web analytics we assumed no one had even heard of us yet. So, to just continue forward and remove that event and start with a fresh design seemed to be the best route to move in. Until posting this sponsored thread no one had even mentioned The Gaming World Series, including players who have been affiliated with our organization from Day 1.
The old web site and those crude posts throughout the forum were all things I was unaware of. That web site is hosted through a different design company and I will have it taken down immediately now the the appropriate light has been shed.
csn_JohnClark, Please let me begin by saying how much I appreciate you! I did go into some brief general descriptions about our organization in previous posts, unfortunately there is not much else to say. We have been putting this particular event over the last 16 months and our first scheduled launch date was September 1, 2010. We have encountered many obstacles throughout this process and being completely new to this aspect of eSports we took it on as it came to us. That is why we made the decision to take as much time as we could to fully develop this event as it was clear there are many aspects we are unaware of.
We are now in a full ready position to launch our event and we are still working on some major strides internally regarding future assets of our event. Our number priority is taking in as much feedback from the community as possible and continue to adapt, add or change anything we can to fit the needs of the population. We have already sponsored an Open Qualifier event with z33k.com that went very well where sixjaxDDE was the first place winner. ONEKyhol from ItsGoSu eSports also received a free entry pass into the NeSE and everyone who participated in that qualifier can vouch our legitimacy. We are also sponsoring a tournament with ItsGoSu eSports that was finalized this afternoon and is scheduled for August 3rd and 4th.
To be honest, we absolutely expected a certain type of initial feedback but we did not believe people would be as harsh as others had said they would. Clearly the reputation of the gaming community stands tall and firm as usual.
On July 22 2011 13:59 jobebob wrote: Classic pyramid scheme. For every person that makes it to the 6th round (getting first in a 4096 man tourney) they (Ne-Se) make around $40,000. The best part about this is that they don't need to do anything; they don't even need to have the players go a full 6 rounds or any amount of rounds for that matter, to make a profit. Everything is automated!
I have absolutely no idea how you arrived at this conclusion but the truth of this matter has been explained in several topics in several ways at this point.
On July 22 2011 14:05 crojar wrote: Find a way to have Blizzard acknowledge that this is legitimate. That or show us somehow yourself. The burden of proving legitimacy falls on you. You are asking us to pay for something; to just blindly believe this tournament is what you say it is with all the shady stuff posted in this thread would be stupid.
Enough about the tournament, you wanting feedback, etc.
You are absolutely right. As I have previously stated we are looking to simply get the word out and that was the purpose of the TL sponsored thread. We will cross the legitimacy boundaries via the Blizzard announcements, all we're looking for is feedback and "acknowledgement".
As much as we the gaming public would like to believe you, there are several odd things about your ambitious and hopefully true endeavor. If i could speak for the gaming public, we think this is a grand idea, and we hope this is all true and real. However, so far we haven't been able to realize if this is all a real event or not. Please show us proof that Blizzard has approved this tournament, or quotes SPECIFICALLY from the players that have won from your "sponsored" tournaments and it would gladly please our worried and concerned minds.
On July 22 2011 14:05 NeSE wrote: Pharside, I cannot publicly post that as I was going to post it and the response I received from Blizzard is that is Not public information. They will be posting our tournament up their sites though to ensure legitimacy.
Except I know this is not true LOL. but I'll give you one more chance. Post the "Grant of Tournament License" clause on your license to prove you have a license. This is public information that anyone is allowed to see. Post it.
2. Blizzard’s Responsibilities: With regards to the Tournament, Blizzard shall have the following obligations: a. Grant of License – Right to use the Software for Tournament play. Blizzard hereby grants, and Organizer accepts, a non-exclusive, non-transferable, license and right to use and display the StarCraft® II: Wings of Liberty™ software (the “Software”) in the Territory: (a) As an integral part of the Tournament and such exhibitions and events which are to be held in conjunction therewith with Blizzard’s prior approval; and (b) for other uses related to the Tournament that have been approved by Blizzard in advance of such use. Additionally, Blizzard hereby grants, and Organizer hereby accepts, a limited, non-exclusive license to utilize the Blizzard’s trademarks, logos, copyrighted content, trade secrets, trade names or designations, audio, video, text, etc. associated with the Software (“Blizzard Intellectual Property”) in advertisements, posters, flyers, banner advertisements and other marketing materials (“Marketing Materials”) related to the Tournament, subject to Blizzard’s approval rights as set forth in Section 2(c) below. b. Grant of License – Broadcast Rights. This Agreement does not include any right for Organizer to broadcast the Software over close circuit, network, cable, satellite, internet streaming video, or any other form of broadcast distribution (“Broadcast Media”). In the event that Blizzard, in its sole discretion, determines that it is in its best interest to allow Organizer to distribute video of the Tournament over Broadcast Media, a ‘rider’ signed by both parties that contains the terms and conditions granting Organizer the right to distribute Broadcast Media, shall be executed to establish the rights and responsibilities of the parties related to Organizer’s distribution of Broadcast Media. c. Approval. Organizer shall submit samples of all Marketing Materials created for the Tournament to Blizzard for its prior written approval, which approval shall not be unreasonably withheld and shall be solely with respect to the accurate representation of the Blizzard Intellectual Property in the Marketing Materials. Blizzard is not granted approval rights as to any other aspect of the Marketing Materials. Blizzard shall review submitted Marketing Materials within ten (10) business days of receipt of Organizer’s submission. If Blizzard does not approve or reject the submission within ten (10) business days from the date of Blizzard’s receipt of the Marketing Materials, they shall be deemed to be rejected by Blizzard. If Blizzard rejects submitted Marketing Materials, Blizzard will, within such ten (10) day period, notify Organizer of defects in the representation of the Blizzard Intellectual Property in the Marketing Materials, and Organizer will immediately rectify such defects and resubmit the rectified items for prompt approval. Organizer will not distribute any Marketing Materials containing Blizzard Intellectual Property until Blizzard has approved the use of Blizzard Intellectual Property in such Marketing Materials in writing. Blizzard shall solely retain all right and title to the Software and the Blizzard Intellectual Property, and its use shall inure only to the benefit of Blizzard. Organizer agrees not to alter, erase, deface, or overprint any such mark or logo on anything provided and approved by Blizzard to Organizer.
On July 22 2011 14:09 heartjc wrote: As much as we the gaming public would like to believe you, there are several odd things about your ambitious and hopefully true endeavor. If i could speak for the gaming public, we think this is a grand idea, and we hope this is all true and real. However, so far we haven't been able to realize if this is all a real event or not. Please show us proof that Blizzard has approved this tournament, or quotes SPECIFICALLY from the players that have won from your "sponsored" tournaments and it would gladly please our worried and concerned minds.
So very true, I wish I could just grab ONEKyhol and sixjaxDDE and have them post here right now. I will send them both messages as well as this link and see what I can accomplish for you.
On July 22 2011 13:51 Kuchcio wrote: ... Also since the website is online, and you guys are owners you guys can face legal actions such as fines or arrest for allowing pornographic materials get to the minors, but that is the only thing I know since I am not a lawyer
Forums that aren't maintained being infiltrated by a spambots isn't uncommon, and the owner of the site can't be held accountable for what the spambots post. That's why any forum has you agree to terms of use before registering.
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Feel bad for the guy if everything he says is true. It's all pretty weird, but there's no proof that it's a scam, I'm pretty sure there would be an angry forum post somewhere on Google if people had their money taken by the first iteration of the tournament. Insistent that there will be an announcement on August 1st that makes this sound more legitimate, might as well wait until then before judging. The first signup deadline isn't until two months after August 1st, so if it's just a grab for money, giving people all that time to decide and promising a blizzard endorsement so soon would be an odd move to make.
On July 22 2011 13:51 Kuchcio wrote: ... Also since the website is online, and you guys are owners you guys can face legal actions such as fines or arrest for allowing pornographic materials get to the minors, but that is the only thing I know since I am not a lawyer
Forums that aren't maintained being infiltrated by a spambots isn't uncommon, and the owner of the site can't be held accountable for what the spambots post. That's why any forum has you agree to terms of use before registering.
TeamLiquid does not control or guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of user submitted content posted on the site. We take no responsibility and assume no liability for any user submitted content, or for any mistakes, defamation, slander, libel, omissions, falsehoods, obscenity, pornography, or profanity you may encounter. All content posted by users, including any opinions, advice or recommendations expressed, are those of the users providing such content and not those of TeamLiquid. Unless otherwise stated, we do not endorse any user submitted content or any opinion, recommendation or advice.
Feel bad for the guy if everything he says is true. It's all pretty weird, but there's no proof that it's a scam, I'm pretty sure there would be an angry forum post somewhere on Google if people had their money taken by the first iteration of the tournament. Insistent that there will be an announcement on August 1st that makes this sound more legitimate, might as well wait until then before judging. The first signup deadline isn't until two months after August 1st, so if it's just a grab for money, giving people all that time to decide and promising a blizzard endorsement so soon would be an odd move to make.
NeSE.. that was a decent response to my post.. but I think some of us are still looking to hear a bit more about you.. or at least the people behind this event.
What experience with eSports do you have?
Have you or others in your organization ran events prior to this?
Those sorts of things help as well.
I am very curious to see how this all pans out.. but I really think you will need to be patient and most important you will need let us all know a bit about you personally or those in your organization. If you are here to put up an event and make some money..that's fine.. I am OK with that.. if it really is about the average players.. then even better.. but I think it just came off wrong to some here.. including myself.
You posted the generic agreement. Do you really think you are pulling the wool over my eyes man? You know what I'm asking for. You claim blizzard is going to post about your tournament. For this to happen you HAVE to be a direct partner with blizzard and have a license. You can clear the air right now by posting that licensing or the clause I am asking for in that license. You keep dodging this bullet, but I'll keep waiting.
On July 22 2011 13:59 jobebob wrote: Classic pyramid scheme. For every person that makes it to the 6th round (getting first in a 4096 man tourney) they (Ne-Se) make around $40,000. The best part about this is that they don't need to do anything; they don't even need to have the players go a full 6 rounds or any amount of rounds for that matter, to make a profit. Everything is automated!
I have absolutely no idea how you arrived at this conclusion but the truth of this matter has been explained in several topics in several ways at this point.
Simple, right now the way your tournament is set up is super shady.
Lets model your profit margin:
a*p^b + (a/(p-2))*(2^b-p^b) where a is the reg fee, p is the bracket size, and b is the number of round. So right now in your case a=$20, p=4, b=6 do the math: 41,600
Notice how the second part of the equation is always going to be smaller, and goes up exponentially for every extra round you have.
Secondly you say that there will be 50 players in the round of 7. Does that mean you expect 204,800 players to sign up? Unless I misunderstood your format, this is impossible.
Now I have no problem with tournaments making a profit but I don't see how you can justify a profit margin that looks like this: + Show Spoiler +
for basically not actually producing any content. I know you are based in Vegas and all, but most of the country has laws against this sort of thing.
although.. looking at the math.. you have it listed as b = number of round.. but if their model is that you only pay the registration fee 1 time of 20..then the number of rounds does not factor into figuring additional profit. I could be wrong though..cause after looking at your math.. my head started to hurt!
I really am looking back at these posts and I cannot blame us for things spiraling into what they have become here.
This is the NeSE's first large event and this is the first time we are attempting a large event as well so there is no prior experience there. I personally, as well as other members of the NeSE, have been loyal gamers specifically to Blizzard games since 1996. I also played WoW at a semi-professional level competing in a few live events. Our corporation was previously viewed mainly as an investment firm that mainly focused on start-up level businesses with some experience in corporate expanding and what not. We were also heavily affiliated with the Las Vegas night life scene based on some investments. Through all of our businesses we had many friends at Blizzard Entertainment and then had this particular concept come our direction.
We elected to pursue this endeavor with a full head of steam and relinquish all our interest in other companies. We will continue to focus solely on this event and eSports in the United States in general to no exact end. Within our organization we have a great deal of experience with high quality live broadcasts, extensive web site video capabilities and a strong expenditure account to work from. We believe the overall quality of broadcast is where eSports is Truly lacking and we have already spent large sums of capital on making great strides in that department. We are extremely excited to bring our first event to the public eye in June of 2012 at our finals.
On July 22 2011 13:59 jobebob wrote: Classic pyramid scheme. For every person that makes it to the 6th round (getting first in a 4096 man tourney) they (Ne-Se) make around $40,000. The best part about this is that they don't need to do anything; they don't even need to have the players go a full 6 rounds or any amount of rounds for that matter, to make a profit. Everything is automated!
I have absolutely no idea how you arrived at this conclusion but the truth of this matter has been explained in several topics in several ways at this point.
Simple, right now the way your tournament is set up is super shady.
Lets model your profit margin:
a*p^b + (a/(p-2))*(2^b-p^b) where a is the reg fee, p is the bracket size, and b is the number of round. So right now in your case a=$20, p=4, b=6 do the math: 41,600
Notice how the second part of the equation is always going to be smaller, and goes up exponentially for every extra round you have.
Secondly you say that there will be 50 players in the round of 7. Does that mean you expect 204,800 players to sign up? Unless I misunderstood your format, this is impossible.
Now I have no problem with tournaments making a profit but I don't see how you can justify a profit margin that looks like this: + Show Spoiler +
for basically not actually producing any content. I know you are based in Vegas and all, but most of the country has laws against this sort of thing.
This is an insane version of our prize pool system and make absolutely no sense. We actually have our prize pool system broken down on a chart for everyone to clearly see in our office. I assure, what is posted on our wall is absolutely nothing like what you have mentioned here.
This event is NOT designed to be a money maker or generate any revenue at all for the NeSE organization. Nor is the possibility of revenue from registrations even counted on amongst our team. The goal of this tournament is to provide the best possible event that we can provide and that is Costing us money from Season start to Season finish.
I must admit, since when is the profit of a company anyone's concern? This is our product and this is what we are featuring. Unfortunately, at this time, we have to charge an entry fee in order to continue our organization forward we cannot depend on community donations, sorry. We hope to one day be able to provide this exact format but at no cost regarding entry fee, but that is not possible at this time.
On July 22 2011 14:30 csn_JohnClark wrote: my head hurts.. .and I am a math guy even.
although.. looking at the math.. you have it listed as b = number of round.. but if their model is that you only pay the registration fee 1 time of 20..then the number of rounds does not factor into figuring additional profit. I could be wrong though..cause after looking at your math.. my head started to hurt!
Let me explain:
a*p^b is the number of players that need to register for ONE person to make it to the round of six, times the registration fee.
now a* Sum( (-1)*(2^n)*p^(b-1-n)) from n=0, to n=b-1, is the amount of money they have to "return" to players for winning. Combine the two and you get Profit = a*p^b + a* Sum( (-1)*(2^n)*p^(b-1-n)) , which reduces to the equation I posted.
On July 22 2011 14:35 csn_JohnClark wrote: with all of that being said.. I for one am looking forward to see it happen!
Oh.. Do you have a name.. or should we just call you NeSE.. do you have an online alias that you have played with in the past?
Also.. you do realize the risk of dropping investment into all of your other companies and popping it in eSports right?
He is right about eSports lacking quality broadcast (no need to bring up NASL anyone!)..
hmm.. I'm perplexed.
We absolutely understand the risk we took. We also truly believe in the gaming industry and its community through-in and through-out.
You can call me Dannie and I go by the the alias Unruly.337 on bnet. I would personally LOVE to play a few of you posters on this forum! Thanks for 4 hours of sitting in front of a forum board!
NeSE.. check up a bit on my last post to you and answer a few of those if you can. I am sure others are curious to know a bit about you personally and your gaming aliases.
I like the idea.. Fuzzy math it appears (you may wanna have your guys look over their math again) I like the responses.. just missing some details You have remained patient. You are still answering questions..that's good.
On July 22 2011 13:59 jobebob wrote: Classic pyramid scheme. For every person that makes it to the 6th round (getting first in a 4096 man tourney) they (Ne-Se) make around $40,000. The best part about this is that they don't need to do anything; they don't even need to have the players go a full 6 rounds or any amount of rounds for that matter, to make a profit. Everything is automated!
I have absolutely no idea how you arrived at this conclusion but the truth of this matter has been explained in several topics in several ways at this point.
Simple, right now the way your tournament is set up is super shady.
Lets model your profit margin:
a*p^b + (a/(p-2))*(2^b-p^b) where a is the reg fee, p is the bracket size, and b is the number of round. So right now in your case a=$20, p=4, b=6 do the math: 41,600
Notice how the second part of the equation is always going to be smaller, and goes up exponentially for every extra round you have.
Secondly you say that there will be 50 players in the round of 7. Does that mean you expect 204,800 players to sign up? Unless I misunderstood your format, this is impossible.
Now I have no problem with tournaments making a profit but I don't see how you can justify a profit margin that looks like this: + Show Spoiler +
for basically not actually producing any content. I know you are based in Vegas and all, but most of the country has laws against this sort of thing.
This is an insane version of our prize pool system and make absolutely no sense. We actually have our prize pool system broken down on a chart for everyone to clearly see in our office. I assure, what is posted on our wall is absolutely nothing like what you have mentioned here.
This event is NOT designed to be a money maker or generate any revenue at all for the NeSE organization. Nor is the possibility of revenue from registrations even counted on amongst our team. The goal of this tournament is to provide the best possible event that we can provide and that is Costing us money from Season start to Season finish.
I must admit, since when is the profit of a company anyone's concern? This is our product and this is what we are featuring. Unfortunately, at this time, we have to charge an entry fee in order to continue our organization forward we cannot depend on community donations, sorry. We hope to one day be able to provide this exact format but at no cost regarding entry fee, but that is not possible at this time.
From your website: 1)Once a player or team is signed up, the player or team will be entered into a four person bracket system to compete and determine a winner. In order to win a round, you must win both games in your bracket. 2)Each tournament setting (1vs1 and 2vs2) is a separate tournament with separate prizes and games. 3)For example, if you are registered for both Starcraft2's 2vs2 setting and 1vs1 setting, you would be entered in both bracket settings and have to play both sets of designated games. A participant who registers for both settings will have to win 4 games total in order to win both rounds in 1vs1 and 2vs2. They are completely separate. 4)If you win both games in the 1vs1 setting and lose your first game in the 2vs2 you will be disqualified from 2vs2, but continue to round 2 of the 1vs1 bracket. 5)If a player wins round two and then loses in round three, he/she still wins $60 from winning rounds one and two.
This is what I used to model your system. You pay one entry fee. If you lose you are out and cannot go to the next round. This is exactly what my model shows. 6 rounds means 4096 playes which is 4 players per round to the power of 6 for 6 rounds. Is there some kind of typo on your website, please explain it.
The information about the tournament that is from our web site that you listed, is 100% accurate. Again, I have to let you know I am no math scholar and your breakdown is FAR different than the one that I have come to understand. I think you are making our system far more complicated than it actually is.
On July 22 2011 13:42 NeSE wrote: Believe me when I tell you I was pretty surprised to see anyone even mention the old name because we had a total of 300 hits to that web site in the month it was operational and those hits were from the programmers, designers and other employees. To be honest I wish I had known people actually knew about The Gaming World Series, we would have fought harder to preserve the name.
I find that hard to believe based on the fact you seemed to advertise the old website on quite a few forums, including the sc2 forums.Couple examples: [1][2][3]
On July 22 2011 14:18 Nathris wrote: Feel bad for the guy if everything he says is true. It's all pretty weird, but there's no proof that it's a scam, I'm pretty sure there would be an angry forum post somewhere on Google if people had their money taken by the first iteration of the tournament. Insistent that there will be an announcement on August 1st that makes this sound more legitimate, might as well wait until then before judging. The first signup deadline isn't until two months after August 1st, so if it's just a grab for money, giving people all that time to decide and promising a blizzard endorsement so soon would be an odd move to make.
On July 22 2011 12:54 NeSE wrote: It is incredible how extensive some of your research actually is. Please let me put all your minds to rest. As I said earlier we have been working on this project for over 17 months now. We have been changing and adapting our event based on public feedback and have NEVER started a registration EVER until this actual pre-launch. Our previous formats received great feedback and we elected to take our time with this event and work diligently towards providing the best possible environment. The Gaming World Series was the previous name of this exact same event and we are the same exact owners. We did not scam anyone nor did we do any formal announcements.
Care to explain why it was clearly advertised as a tournament, and the site had an active/working registration and paypal account if registration wasn't actually open?
On July 22 2011 13:51 Kuchcio wrote: ... Also since the website is online, and you guys are owners you guys can face legal actions such as fines or arrest for allowing pornographic materials get to the minors, but that is the only thing I know since I am not a lawyer
Forums that aren't maintained being infiltrated by a spambots isn't uncommon, and the owner of the site can't be held accountable for what the spambots post. That's why any forum has you agree to terms of use before registering.
TeamLiquid does not control or guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of user submitted content posted on the site. We take no responsibility and assume no liability for any user submitted content, or for any mistakes, defamation, slander, libel, omissions, falsehoods, obscenity, pornography, or profanity you may encounter. All content posted by users, including any opinions, advice or recommendations expressed, are those of the users providing such content and not those of TeamLiquid. Unless otherwise stated, we do not endorse any user submitted content or any opinion, recommendation or advice.
No such clause exists on their website (website toc nor forum toc).
There was NEVER an active PayPal feature on our previous tournament domain. We began to feature a PRE-REGISTRATION that did not allow people to pay it was simply a way to submit information / show interest.
As I said earlier, we were VERY CLOSE to being able to initiate registrations. Then we were directed to change certain aspects of our event based on Legal Ramifications. Which, had you been involved prior to this thread, you would know we made substantial changes since that time. At this current point in time we have nothing but green lights ahead and can guarantee a formal launch and announcement on August 1st.
I have to ask you, why are you so persistent on proving this is a scam or not a real event? Do you not enjoy new types of tournaments being featured in eSports? Especially ones that allow you to not only participate but also provide you with a substantial chance to win.
On July 22 2011 15:04 NeSE wrote: There was NEVER an active PayPal feature on our previous tournament domain. We began to feature a PRE-REGISTRATION that did not allow people to pay it was simply a way to submit information / show interest.
On July 22 2011 14:55 NeSE wrote: The information about the tournament that is from our web site that you listed, is 100% accurate. Again, I have to let you know I am no math scholar and your breakdown is FAR different than the one that I have come to understand. I think you are making our system far more complicated than it actually is.
Ok here lemme go through it step by step, and if I made a mistake or if I misunderstood your rules, I am sorry, but the math here is a representation of what is found on your website.
The tournament is single elim, which means once a player is out they stop advancing to the next round and are out of the tournament. Thus to make it to round of 6 would mean to go through 6 consecutive 4 man brackets with only one person making it out each time. So 4*4*4*4*4*4 is the number of players required so that one person gets to round of 6.
So that makes up 4096 players or 4^6. Each of these players pay 20 bucks, so you make 20*4^6 or $81,920. Now after round one there are only 1024 players left and they get their money back so take out 20*4^(6-1-0) or 20*1024 which is 20,480. You are now down to 60k is. After the next round, (round of 2), there will be 256 players left, and they each will get 20*2^n, or 20*2^1=$40 which is another 10k you have to give back.
This is where the $20*Sum( (-1)*(2^n)*(4^(6-1-n)) I posted comes from. Now if that is not how the tournament works please clarify. Because right now this is basically a ponzy scheme of some sorts
On July 22 2011 15:04 NeSE wrote: As I said earlier, we were VERY CLOSE to being able to initiate registrations. Then we were directed to change certain aspects of our event based on Legal Ramifications. Which, had you been involved prior to this thread, you would know we made substantial changes since that time. At this current point in time we have nothing but green lights ahead and can guarantee a formal launch and announcement on August 1st.
I have to ask you, why are you so persistent on proving this is a scam or not a real event? Do you not enjoy new types of tournaments being featured in eSports? Especially ones that allow you to not only participate but also provide you with a substantial chance to win.
Could you explain what aspects of the event were changed based on legal ramifications? Because as far as I can tell, the formats on each site are identical.
I'm persistent because I can tell a scam when I can see one, and I'd rather not see legitimate esports players scammed out of their money. Just ask Chris Hill.
I have answered all of these questions and we are beginning to become repetitive. I also posted a section of our Contract with Blizzard Entertainment. If your persistence is to ensure quality for the community would that not satisfy your quest? Also, I have to ask if you are an individual who utilizes forums to voice their opinion, why not contact me in a private message? Ask me more direct and personal questions that would get more accomplished, as other people did? Then you can post your overall feedback here on this thread or in a new one, whichever you prefer.
We are attempting to announce ourselves here on TL in the most positive light possible and whether you believe it or not we ARE an Official Licensed Organizer. There is an entire organization of people behind the name you are so desperately trying to slaughter here. Me personally, as someone who is dedicated to eSports, I can assure you I would never Attack another organizer or anyone putting together something good for eSports as my initial response. I can tell you this for sure, if I were to discover an event is completely full of it, I would be the first one to let as many individuals know as humanly possible at that point with my proof.
On July 22 2011 15:25 NeSE wrote: I have answered all of these questions and we are beginning to become repetitive. I also posted a section of our Contract with Blizzard Entertainment. If your persistence is to ensure quality for the community would that not satisfy your quest? Also, I have to ask if you are an individual who utilizes forums to voice their opinion, why not contact me in a private message? Ask me more direct and personal questions that would get more accomplished, as other people did? Then you can post your overall feedback here on this thread or in a new one, whichever you prefer.
We are attempting to announce ourselves here on TL in the most positive light possible and whether you believe it or not we ARE an Official Licensed Organizer. There is an entire organization of people behind the name you are so desperately trying to slaughter here. Me personally, as someone who is dedicated to eSports, I can assure you I would never Attack another organizer or anyone putting together something good for eSports as my initial response. I can tell you this for sure, if I were to discover an event is completely full of it, I would be the first one to let as many individuals know AT that point with my proof.
Except no you didn't... Do you think I don't know what the contract looks like or something? I don't understand how you think you fooled me.
New tournaments get announced all the time, and they are great. Want to know why? Because they don't have a history of scamming people behind them. So how you expected to be welcomed with open arms as a scammer is beyond any bounds of belief. G2Wolf continues to expose more and more lies told by you, and you can't prove any legitimacy.
You can sound all professional and patient all you want to. That works on some people, but hopefully they will see this read and see right through the bullcrap scam artist like you say. Its your job to make this sound safe and put people at ease so they give you the money. Its our job at the community to make them well aware of the trick your running.
What its looking like to me is you made a great sum of money the first time, so you decided to give it another go. I sincerely hope you don't make a dime this time, and am confident you won't.
On July 22 2011 15:25 NeSE wrote: I have answered all of these questions and we are beginning to become repetitive.
How are we getting repetitive here? I brought up an issue, you responded to it, I gave evidence showing the exact opposite, you ignored that and pushed on advertising. I guess we are getting repetitive in that aspect but you haven't contradicted any of the evidence I've given that shows that this is a scam and none of my questions have been repetitive.
On July 22 2011 15:25 NeSE wrote: I also posted a section of our Contract with Blizzard Entertainment.
The section you posted was a random section of the Blizzard terms of service. You did not post any section of the tournament license, which is surprisingly because generic copies can easily be found with a google search
On July 22 2011 15:25 NeSE wrote: If your persistence is to ensure quality for the community would that not satisfy your quest? Also, I have to ask if you are an individual who utilizes forums to voice their opinion, why not contact me in a private message? Ask me more direct and personal questions that would get more accomplished, as other people did? Then you can post your overall feedback here on this thread or in a new one, whichever you prefer.
I am bringing this up in public because it would appear that the tournament is a scam and others deserve to know whether or not this is a legitimate tournament before they spend their money and have it end up missing as others have had theirs.
On July 22 2011 15:25 NeSE wrote: We are attempting to announce ourselves here on TL in the most positive light possible and whether you believe it or not we ARE an Official Licensed Organizer. There is an entire organization of people behind the name you are so desperately trying to slaughter here.
And from what I've seen, the only person involved in the organization is you, because I've yet to find any other evidence of someone else working with you on this project, on either the old site or new or any other posts.
On July 22 2011 15:25 NeSE wrote: Me personally, as someone who is dedicated to eSports, I can assure you I would never Attack another organizer or anyone putting together something good for eSports as my initial response. I can tell you this for sure, if I were to discover an event is completely full of it, I would be the first one to let as many individuals know as humanly possible at that point with my proof.
And yet you criticize and attack me for doing something you say you would do. Oh the irony.
There is not one single post anywhere on the entire internet about anyone making a payment to us and us running away with it OR anything even of that nature. I do not know who suggested patience to you on my behalf but mine are growing thin with you specifically. Everything you have displayed in all of your posts show signs of raw ignorance and inept immaturity. Nothing that you have posted has made any sense thus far nor have you used any references to reinforce anything you've said.
At least G2Wolf has had the capability to quote posts and link references to attempt to reinforce his argument. Everything he linked and posted I explicitly explained without any clarification issues. Yes we did host a previous event. No we did not take in any money that is why there are no posts anywhere stating such. I have just recently become aware that the original web site is still accessible and available. To our knowledge the designers who developed that site were well aware it needed to come down immediately. Clearly that is not the case, but there is nothing I can do after 5pm PST and it something I will deal with first thing in the morning.
You can continue to list these same things over and over again, but frankly you have proven your level intelligence quite clearly. I absolutely pasted a section of our Blizzard Agreement and your incompetence was displayed when you suggested that was "bogus information". Since I am sitting here staring at the document that is signed by Michael Morhaime in two sections dated December 2nd, 2010.
On July 22 2011 15:25 NeSE wrote: I have answered all of these questions and we are beginning to become repetitive.
How are we getting repetitive here? I brought up an issue, you responded to it, I gave evidence showing the exact opposite, you ignored that and pushed on advertising. I guess we are getting repetitive in that aspect but you haven't contradicted any of the evidence I've given that shows that this is a scam and none of my questions have been repetitive.
On July 22 2011 15:25 NeSE wrote: I also posted a section of our Contract with Blizzard Entertainment.
The section you posted was a random section of the Blizzard terms of service. You did not post any section of the tournament license, which is surprisingly because generic copies can easily be found with a google search
On July 22 2011 15:25 NeSE wrote: If your persistence is to ensure quality for the community would that not satisfy your quest? Also, I have to ask if you are an individual who utilizes forums to voice their opinion, why not contact me in a private message? Ask me more direct and personal questions that would get more accomplished, as other people did? Then you can post your overall feedback here on this thread or in a new one, whichever you prefer.
I am bringing this up in public because it would appear that the tournament is a scam and others deserve to know whether or not this is a legitimate tournament before they spend their money and have it end up missing as others have had theirs.
On July 22 2011 15:25 NeSE wrote: We are attempting to announce ourselves here on TL in the most positive light possible and whether you believe it or not we ARE an Official Licensed Organizer. There is an entire organization of people behind the name you are so desperately trying to slaughter here.
And from what I've seen, the only person involved in the organization is you, because I've yet to find any other evidence of someone else working with you on this project, on either the old site or new or any other posts.
On July 22 2011 15:25 NeSE wrote: Me personally, as someone who is dedicated to eSports, I can assure you I would never Attack another organizer or anyone putting together something good for eSports as my initial response. I can tell you this for sure, if I were to discover an event is completely full of it, I would be the first one to let as many individuals know as humanly possible at that point with my proof.
And yet you criticize and attack me for doing something you say you would do. Oh the irony.
Please contact me privately and I will provide you with a Non-Disclosure Agreement, then I will forward you our Blizzard Agreement. I am literally available to accomplish this right now.
On July 22 2011 15:44 NeSE wrote: There is not one single post anywhere on the entire internet about anyone making a payment to us and us running away with it OR anything even of that nature. I do not know who suggested patience to you on my behalf but mine are growing thin with you specifically. Everything you have displayed in all of your posts show signs of raw ignorance and inept immaturity. Nothing that you have posted has made any sense thus far nor have you used any references to reinforce anything you've said.
At least G2Wolf has had the capability to quote posts and link references to attempt to reinforce his argument. Everything he linked and posted I explicitly explained without any clarification issues. Yes we did host a previous event. No we did not take in any money that is why there are no posts anywhere stating such. I have just recently become aware that the original web site is still accessible and available. To our knowledge the designers who developed that site were well aware it needed to come down immediately. Clearly that is not the case, but there is nothing I can do after 5pm PST and it something I will deal with first thing in the morning.
You can continue to list these same things over and over again, but frankly you have proven your level intelligence quite clearly. I absolutely pasted a section of our Blizzard Agreement and your incompetence was displayed when you suggested that was "bogus information". Since I am sitting here staring at the document that is signed by Michael Morhaime in two sections dated December 2nd, 2010.
You also did not explain how I was able to link to a working paypal section on the old site even though you claim there was -never- a paypal section -at any point- on that website.
You can continue to list these same things over and over again, but frankly you have proven your level intelligence quite clearly. I absolutely pasted a section of our Blizzard Agreement and your incompetence was displayed when you suggested that was "bogus information". Since I am sitting here staring at the document that is signed by Michael Morhaime in two sections dated December 2nd, 2010.
Oh yours was signed by Michael Morhaime? I'm jealous because ours wasn't hahahhaha
Correct me if I'm wrong please but I'm trying to understand how the payouts work. If we take what they posted literally I think this is what the payout would look like. This assumes all rounds are played that are listed. Obviously they won't get 204k players but just take it for what it's worth. This should read after round 1 there are x players left. At the end of the playoffs 3 players get paid, etc.
Now let's consider a more reasonable size. Say 1024 players.
I assume the playoffs have to happen right?
I apologize if I made a mistake or something, this is just how I read the rules from the site.
That is now how the tournament system works at all, it is not in full bracket form like that. It breaks down each round by percentages. Although based on what you came out with, it would sure be nice if it did work out that way...
There are also two rounds in the tournament where 1 player will receive a bye into the next round and, depending on the registration amount, an instance where 2 players will only play each other in order to advance forward.
Based on the percentages our registration cap is 50,000 players.
-Players who win the first round of the tournament will be awarded 20 credits to their account and each round won by a player will show as credits equal to dollars (1 credit = 1 dollar). Once a player has either been eliminated or won that tournament and advanced to the NE-SE Playoffs, they will receive payment for all the prize money they earned throughout that tournament.
-The system will continue on in this fashion where 25% of all participants in each round will be deemed winners and advance further until we reach 50 players or teams.
-At 50 players or teams we will transition from a multiple bracket system into a round robin setting. Then, those 50 players or teams will compete day by day in scheduled, arranged matches for a two week time period.
G2Wolf, I said you DID link other items, please try to read more carefully. Also, as I said before that is not something I was even aware of but I guarantee if you attempt to register at the link you provided your registration process absolutely will not complete. I can 100% assure you of this as this is much more involved with a merchant terminal than just a "Pay Now" button.
On July 22 2011 15:55 crojar wrote: I'm basing that on these claims:
-Players who win the first round of the tournament will be awarded 20 credits to their account and each round won by a player will show as credits equal to dollars (1 credit = 1 dollar). Once a player has either been eliminated or won that tournament and advanced to the NE-SE Playoffs, they will receive payment for all the prize money they earned throughout that tournament.
-The system will continue on in this fashion where 25% of all participants in each round will be deemed winners and advance further until we reach 50 players or teams.
-At 50 players or teams we will transition from a multiple bracket system into a round robin setting. Then, those 50 players or teams will compete day by day in scheduled, arranged matches for a two week time period.
Maybe I will re-read, perhaps I made a mistake.
That is 100% correct, I have to be completely honest with you I really don't seem to be completely understanding your system. So far all the systems I've seen posted up here are much more complicated than what you see in our office.
I read the whole thing and I kind of feel bad for the guy. The way I see it this will go one of two ways. One: everything will go just like he says the first of August and everything will be hunky dory, and we will have an awesome tournament to look forward to. Two: Blizzard doesn't announce anything on the appointed day and it is confirmed as a scam (which at this point I'm inclined to believe the former). Either way nothing is going to be accomplished by raking the poor man over the coals right now. You're asking him to post a contract between the group and Blizzard on an internet forum? I would never do that. So how about we all take a step back and wait for proof.
You can continue to list these same things over and over again, but frankly you have proven your level intelligence quite clearly. I absolutely pasted a section of our Blizzard Agreement and your incompetence was displayed when you suggested that was "bogus information". Since I am sitting here staring at the document that is signed by Michael Morhaime in two sections dated December 2nd, 2010.
Oh yours was signed by Michael Morhaime? I'm jealous because ours wasn't hahahhaha
How deep you want to dig this hole man?
You are literally telling me that I am lying when I say whose signature is on our Organizer License Agreement?
I'm so happy you pm'ed me a phony license agreement, now let me show you your bad editing skills: BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT TOURNAMENT AGREEMENT
This Blizzard Entertainment Tournament Agreement (the ‘”Agreement”) is entered into as of September 16, 2010 (the “Effective Date”), by and between Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., a Delaware corporation (collectively referred to herein as "Blizzard"), with an address at 16215 Alton Parkway, Irvine, CA 96218, and Silentium Enterprises, LLC (“Organizer”), a limited liability company organized in the state of Nevada, with an address at 848 North Rainbow Blvd #210, Las Vegas, NV, 89107, and organizer and marketer of the Silentium Tournaments, with respect to the following:
1. The Promotion. Organizer will host a series of StarCraft® II Tournaments, that will be played on Blizzard’s Battle.net® service, with residents of the countries of the United States (the “Territory”) being eligible to participate in the Tournament, beginning on or about the Effective Date and ending on or about July 31, 2012 (collectively, the “Tournament”).
You forgot the edit the agreement start date before you sent it to me. Might want to fix that next time ok?
And yes I know your lying because he doesn't sign the tournament agreements.
On July 22 2011 15:55 crojar wrote: I'm basing that on these claims:
-Players who win the first round of the tournament will be awarded 20 credits to their account and each round won by a player will show as credits equal to dollars (1 credit = 1 dollar). Once a player has either been eliminated or won that tournament and advanced to the NE-SE Playoffs, they will receive payment for all the prize money they earned throughout that tournament.
-The system will continue on in this fashion where 25% of all participants in each round will be deemed winners and advance further until we reach 50 players or teams.
-At 50 players or teams we will transition from a multiple bracket system into a round robin setting. Then, those 50 players or teams will compete day by day in scheduled, arranged matches for a two week time period.
Maybe I will re-read, perhaps I made a mistake.
That is 100% correct, I have to be completely honest with you I really don't seem to be completely understanding your system. So far all the systems I've seen posted up here are much more complicated than what you see in our office.
to be honest the format itself is quite complicated, and if there was a "simple explanation" that was set up in some shack, it should have seriously been posted here instead of just leaving the slogan "25% of all players win!!1 yay!!111!!".
Your past history with that other tournament does not help, and it does not help that you sort of skip past points of contention by saying "it will be answered later", or answering confusingly. I hope for your own sake that this is cleared up soon, because it very much so resembles a ponzi/pyramid scheme.
On July 22 2011 15:59 mavsfan0041 wrote: I read the whole thing and I kind of feel bad for the guy. The way I see it this will go one of two ways. One: everything will go just like he says the first of August and everything will be hunky dory, and we will have an awesome tournament to look forward to. Two: Blizzard doesn't announce anything on the appointed day and it is confirmed as a scam (which at this point I'm inclined to believe the former). Either way nothing is going to be accomplished by raking the poor man over the coals right now. You're asking him to post a contract between the group and Blizzard on an internet forum? I would never do that. So how about we all take a step back and wait for proof.
Really this is what we should do, if you are nervous about a scam, then wait for the official announcement by blizzard
if the announcement never comes, then we all know it was a scam
and really I hope that this is a legitimate tournament
On July 22 2011 16:00 pHaRSiDE wrote: I'm so happy you pm'ed me a phony license agreement, now let me show you your bad editing skills: BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT TOURNAMENT AGREEMENT
This Blizzard Entertainment Tournament Agreement (the ‘”Agreement”) is entered into as of September 16, 2010 (the “Effective Date”), by and between Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., a Delaware corporation (collectively referred to herein as "Blizzard"), with an address at 16215 Alton Parkway, Irvine, CA 96218, and Silentium Enterprises, LLC (“Organizer”), a limited liability company organized in the state of Nevada, with an address at 848 North Rainbow Blvd #210, Las Vegas, NV, 89107, and organizer and marketer of the Silentium Tournaments, with respect to the following:
1. The Promotion. Organizer will host a series of StarCraft® II Tournaments, that will be played on Blizzard’s Battle.net® service, with residents of the countries of the United States (the “Territory”) being eligible to participate in the Tournament, beginning on or about the Effective Date and ending on or about July 31, 2012 (collectively, the “Tournament”).
You forgot the edit the agreement start date before you sent it to me. Might want to fix that next time ok?
And yes I know your lying because he doesn't sign the tournament agreements.
On July 22 2011 16:00 pHaRSiDE wrote: I'm so happy you pm'ed me a phony license agreement, now let me show you your bad editing skills: BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT TOURNAMENT AGREEMENT
This Blizzard Entertainment Tournament Agreement (the ‘”Agreement”) is entered into as of September 16, 2010 (the “Effective Date”), by and between Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., a Delaware corporation (collectively referred to herein as "Blizzard"), with an address at 16215 Alton Parkway, Irvine, CA 96218, and Silentium Enterprises, LLC (“Organizer”), a limited liability company organized in the state of Nevada, with an address at 848 North Rainbow Blvd #210, Las Vegas, NV, 89107, and organizer and marketer of the Silentium Tournaments, with respect to the following:
1. The Promotion. Organizer will host a series of StarCraft® II Tournaments, that will be played on Blizzard’s Battle.net® service, with residents of the countries of the United States (the “Territory”) being eligible to participate in the Tournament, beginning on or about the Effective Date and ending on or about July 31, 2012 (collectively, the “Tournament”).
You forgot the edit the agreement start date before you sent it to me. Might want to fix that next time ok?
And yes I know your lying because he doesn't sign the tournament agreements.
Well I guess problem's solved now, and we can go on watching real SC2 tournaments :D
On July 22 2011 16:00 pHaRSiDE wrote: I'm so happy you pm'ed me a phony license agreement, now let me show you your bad editing skills: BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT TOURNAMENT AGREEMENT
This Blizzard Entertainment Tournament Agreement (the ‘”Agreement”) is entered into as of September 16, 2010 (the “Effective Date”), by and between Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., a Delaware corporation (collectively referred to herein as "Blizzard"), with an address at 16215 Alton Parkway, Irvine, CA 96218, and Silentium Enterprises, LLC (“Organizer”), a limited liability company organized in the state of Nevada, with an address at 848 North Rainbow Blvd #210, Las Vegas, NV, 89107, and organizer and marketer of the Silentium Tournaments, with respect to the following:
1. The Promotion. Organizer will host a series of StarCraft® II Tournaments, that will be played on Blizzard’s Battle.net® service, with residents of the countries of the United States (the “Territory”) being eligible to participate in the Tournament, beginning on or about the Effective Date and ending on or about July 31, 2012 (collectively, the “Tournament”).
You forgot the edit the agreement start date before you sent it to me. Might want to fix that next time ok?
And yes I know your lying because he doesn't sign the tournament agreements.
You are clearly EXTREMELY dense, it has been stated SEVERAL times throughout this thread that we entered into our agreement with Blizzard OVER 17 MONTHS AGO. The end date of the agreement was redlined to update our contract, but there is no need to change the effective date. Do you feel as though you are making progress?
On July 22 2011 16:00 pHaRSiDE wrote: I'm so happy you pm'ed me a phony license agreement, now let me show you your bad editing skills: BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT TOURNAMENT AGREEMENT
This Blizzard Entertainment Tournament Agreement (the ‘”Agreement”) is entered into as of September 16, 2010 (the “Effective Date”), by and between Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., a Delaware corporation (collectively referred to herein as "Blizzard"), with an address at 16215 Alton Parkway, Irvine, CA 96218, and Silentium Enterprises, LLC (“Organizer”), a limited liability company organized in the state of Nevada, with an address at 848 North Rainbow Blvd #210, Las Vegas, NV, 89107, and organizer and marketer of the Silentium Tournaments, with respect to the following:
1. The Promotion. Organizer will host a series of StarCraft® II Tournaments, that will be played on Blizzard’s Battle.net® service, with residents of the countries of the United States (the “Territory”) being eligible to participate in the Tournament, beginning on or about the Effective Date and ending on or about July 31, 2012 (collectively, the “Tournament”).
You forgot the edit the agreement start date before you sent it to me. Might want to fix that next time ok?
And yes I know your lying because he doesn't sign the tournament agreements.
It clearly states that we reserve the right to host a tournament starting on the "EFFECTIVE DATE" of September 16th, 2010 and ending anywhere between the EFFECTIVE DATE and July 31st, 2012.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but are we not within that time line?
On July 22 2011 16:00 pHaRSiDE wrote: I'm so happy you pm'ed me a phony license agreement, now let me show you your bad editing skills: BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT TOURNAMENT AGREEMENT
This Blizzard Entertainment Tournament Agreement (the ‘”Agreement”) is entered into as of September 16, 2010 (the “Effective Date”), by and between Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., a Delaware corporation (collectively referred to herein as "Blizzard"), with an address at 16215 Alton Parkway, Irvine, CA 96218, and Silentium Enterprises, LLC (“Organizer”), a limited liability company organized in the state of Nevada, with an address at 848 North Rainbow Blvd #210, Las Vegas, NV, 89107, and organizer and marketer of the Silentium Tournaments, with respect to the following:
1. The Promotion. Organizer will host a series of StarCraft® II Tournaments, that will be played on Blizzard’s Battle.net® service, with residents of the countries of the United States (the “Territory”) being eligible to participate in the Tournament, beginning on or about the Effective Date and ending on or about July 31, 2012 (collectively, the “Tournament”).
You forgot the edit the agreement start date before you sent it to me. Might want to fix that next time ok?
And yes I know your lying because he doesn't sign the tournament agreements.
What makes us believe he sent you anything?
Screenshot posted here:
And now if you'd kindly read a post above yours, the NeSE guy has said why it's set as September
This guy is blowing my mind, I can't believe how heavily he is challenging our contract... Do I appear as if I would draft such a document illegally? Does that seem as though it can be profitable? Would I attempt to promote an organization that was THIS fraudulent? Why would I have wasted my time posting on a forum like Team Liquid?
The craziest part is, the NeSE as an organization was excited to present our first formal announcement of our own on Team Liquid this afternoon. "Oh the irony"
On July 22 2011 16:00 pHaRSiDE wrote: I'm so happy you pm'ed me a phony license agreement, now let me show you your bad editing skills: BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT TOURNAMENT AGREEMENT
This Blizzard Entertainment Tournament Agreement (the ‘”Agreement”) is entered into as of September 16, 2010 (the “Effective Date”), by and between Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., a Delaware corporation (collectively referred to herein as "Blizzard"), with an address at 16215 Alton Parkway, Irvine, CA 96218, and Silentium Enterprises, LLC (“Organizer”), a limited liability company organized in the state of Nevada, with an address at 848 North Rainbow Blvd #210, Las Vegas, NV, 89107, and organizer and marketer of the Silentium Tournaments, with respect to the following:
1. The Promotion. Organizer will host a series of StarCraft® II Tournaments, that will be played on Blizzard’s Battle.net® service, with residents of the countries of the United States (the “Territory”) being eligible to participate in the Tournament, beginning on or about the Effective Date and ending on or about July 31, 2012 (collectively, the “Tournament”).
You forgot the edit the agreement start date before you sent it to me. Might want to fix that next time ok?
And yes I know your lying because he doesn't sign the tournament agreements.
He is just posting the screen shot as proof I sent it to him, even though I never denied sending it, because I did, and what I sent, clearly proves our legitimacy.
On July 22 2011 16:12 NeSE wrote: He is just posting the screen shot as proof I sent it to him, even though I never denied sending it, because I did, and what I sent, clearly proves our legitimacy.
I mean he's claiming that this proves that you guys are a fake, but there's nothing in it that seems amiss...
"With this system you are randomly placed up against your opponents and if you can manage a 6-0 record you can win seven times the amount of money you started with as your entry fee."
So I did some more reading and I came across this statement. Looking at the excel posts I made here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=245230¤tpage=7#138), that seems to hold true.
Win your first 6 games == Get out of first 3 rounds. Thus you get paid 20+40+80 = 140 = 7 * 20. So how is that wrong? Sorry, just trying to understand more clearly.
On July 22 2011 16:10 NeSE wrote: This guy is blowing my mind, I can't believe how heavily he is challenging our contract... Do I appear as if I would draft such a document illegally? Does that seem as though it can be profitable? Would I attempt to promote an organization that was THIS fraudulent? Why would I have wasted my time posting on a forum like Team Liquid?
The craziest part is, the NeSE as an organization was excited to present our first formal announcement of our own on Team Liquid this afternoon. "Oh the irony"
Oh I'm dense, then explained how you avoided this clause in a REAL license agreement:
5. Term. This Agreement shall commence on the date that the license is sent to you at your email address and thereafter shall remain in effect (unless and until earlier terminated as set forth in this Section) for one (1) year (the “Term”). Blizzard may terminate this Agreement immediately in the event that You: (a) commit a material breach any of representation, warranty or obligation made by You hereunder; (b) make or attempt any unauthorized assignment for the benefit of creditors, file any petition for reorganization, readjustment or rearrangement of Your business or affairs under the laws of any jurisdiction relating to relief of debtors, bankruptcy or insolvency; (c) suffer a receiver or trustee to be appointed for its business or property, or (c) discontinue Your business, or be adjudicated bankrupt or insolvent. In such an event, all rights granted under this Agreement to You shall immediately and automatically expire, and You shall cease all exercise of any rights granted under this Agreement, including without limitation the Tournaments and use of materials that use Blizzard’s trademarks or copyrighted content. ---------- When your first tournament failed and you made a new one, you are required to draft a new agreement. And if you are truely stupid, that means your effective start date would be the NEW date, not the old one.
On July 22 2011 16:10 NeSE wrote: This guy is blowing my mind, I can't believe how heavily he is challenging our contract... Do I appear as if I would draft such a document illegally? Does that seem as though it can be profitable? Would I attempt to promote an organization that was THIS fraudulent? Why would I have wasted my time posting on a forum like Team Liquid?
The craziest part is, the NeSE as an organization was excited to present our first formal announcement of our own on Team Liquid this afternoon. "Oh the irony"
Oh I'm dense, then explained how you avoided this clause in a REAL license agreement:
5. Term. This Agreement shall commence on the date that the license is sent to you at your email address and thereafter shall remain in effect (unless and until earlier terminated as set forth in this Section) for one (1) year (the “Term”). Blizzard may terminate this Agreement immediately in the event that You: (a) commit a material breach any of representation, warranty or obligation made by You hereunder; (b) make or attempt any unauthorized assignment for the benefit of creditors, file any petition for reorganization, readjustment or rearrangement of Your business or affairs under the laws of any jurisdiction relating to relief of debtors, bankruptcy or insolvency; (c) suffer a receiver or trustee to be appointed for its business or property, or (c) discontinue Your business, or be adjudicated bankrupt or insolvent. In such an event, all rights granted under this Agreement to You shall immediately and automatically expire, and You shall cease all exercise of any rights granted under this Agreement, including without limitation the Tournaments and use of materials that use Blizzard’s trademarks or copyrighted content.
What I first said was rude and I apologize, I was out of line. As for the agreement, our contract is set up in the manner it is because of Blizzard's personal understanding of our organization. The details of that matter, quite frankly, are none of your business. The bottom line is, it is not there and its not there for good reason.
On July 22 2011 15:56 NeSE wrote: G2Wolf, I said you DID link other items, please try to read more carefully. Also, as I said before that is not something I was even aware of but I guarantee if you attempt to register at the link you provided your registration process absolutely will not complete. I can 100% assure you of this as this is much more involved with a merchant terminal than just a "Pay Now" button.
I linked to posts online saying they got scammed out of money. I linked to the working registration and the paypal account (which goes all the way up to the paypal login and page, so it definitely works [I'm not personally testing it]
Not to mention, the screenshot that pharside posted of sections1 and 2 of your license, do not allow you the right to broadcast your tournament (strictly states no internet streams, and yet you promise hq streams), and it doesn't allow for an online tournament (which yours is, except for the finals)
You both are 100% correct. Its hard to explain why this guy is still fighting the current, if I come up with anything, I'll PM you tomorrow as I've already reached my allowed cap today dealing with this guy.
On July 22 2011 15:56 NeSE wrote: G2Wolf, I said you DID link other items, please try to read more carefully. Also, as I said before that is not something I was even aware of but I guarantee if you attempt to register at the link you provided your registration process absolutely will not complete. I can 100% assure you of this as this is much more involved with a merchant terminal than just a "Pay Now" button.
I linked to posts online saying they got scammed out of money. I linked to the working registration and the paypal account (which goes all the way up to the paypal login and page, so it definitely works [I'm not personally testing it]
I absolutely did not see any link of someone posting saying they were scammed out of money by our event. That is one you will certainly have to re-link, if you don't mind. As I said before, if you were to fully complete that payment it would not go through to anyone. The PayPal account on OUR end attached to that merchant terminal is NO LONGER active.
Again, regarding the previous web site, I do appreciate you shedding light on the fact that this web site is still available. As I said earlier, we will be tearing this web site down As Soon As Possible and I can absolutely assure you of that. Aside from that, what else can I do to show you this is a legitimate event?
Assuming this isn't a scam, going by the 4 player groups, you still net gain half the entry fee based on the tournament model even in 1024 player brackets. So if it was true, the company would be profiting large amounts without sponsors, ad revenue and such. The math shown by multiple people show that the payout model would need to be changed even if this was a legitimate tournament to begin with. Unless they didn't explain it clearly because 6 rounds = 4096 people or $81,920. That makes an earning of $1,260 payout for the winner look like pocket change even if they did pay out every cent they promised.
A WHOIS search on the website returns some info: Created on: 15-Jun-11 Expires on: 15-Jun-12 Last Updated on: 19-Jun-11
Administrative Contact: Arre, Dannie arredannie@yahoo.com Silentium Enterprises 848 N. Rainbow Blvd Las Vegas, Nevada 89109 United States 702-998-8360 Fax --
A quick google maps search on the address returns nothing. There is no building for "Silentium Enterprises", I would expect a major tournament organizer to have some form of well established business or atleast a freakin building!
Dannie Arre's Experience VIP Host Drai's After Hours Privately Held; Entertainment industry
September 2009 – Present (1 year 11 months)
Drai's After Hours is the #1 After Hours club in Vegas. We have two separate rooms in a club, one half is the house side where we have some of the top DJs on the west coast spinning from 1:30am until a minimum of 7am but as long as the party is going the club stays open. We also have a VIP room featuring DJ Direct well-known and widely requested Hip Hop DJ, this room is private to bottle service clients and ladies only. Drai's has been bringing in the morning light on the Las Vegas strip for over a decade and it is no small wonder why it is the longest running club in Las Vegas. For reservations or guest listing or just to ask a few questions about the club or anything concerning the Vegas Night Life feel free to contact us.
so you are some random club owner in vegas? Sorry I don't feel you have the credentials to run such a tournament with shady math and no prior credibility. This is a fucking scam. Unless you can provide some real credentials, then I suggest that everyone stay away.
On July 22 2011 15:56 NeSE wrote: G2Wolf, I said you DID link other items, please try to read more carefully. Also, as I said before that is not something I was even aware of but I guarantee if you attempt to register at the link you provided your registration process absolutely will not complete. I can 100% assure you of this as this is much more involved with a merchant terminal than just a "Pay Now" button.
I linked to posts online saying they got scammed out of money. I linked to the working registration and the paypal account (which goes all the way up to the paypal login and page, so it definitely works [I'm not personally testing it]
I absolutely did not see any link of someone posting saying they were scammed out of money by our event. That is one you will certainly have to re-link, if you don't mind. As I said before, if you were to fully complete that payment it would not go through to anyone. The PayPal account on OUR end attached to that merchant terminal is NO LONGER active.
Again, regarding the previous web site, I do appreciate you shedding light on the fact that this web site is still available. As I said earlier, we will be tearing this web site down As Soon As Possible and I can absolutely assure you of that. Aside from that, what else can I do to show you this is a legitimate event?
You can try proving it's a legitmate event by disproving everything I and others have stated in this thread, and providing a valid tournament agreement. Until then.......
On July 22 2011 15:56 NeSE wrote: G2Wolf, I said you DID link other items, please try to read more carefully. Also, as I said before that is not something I was even aware of but I guarantee if you attempt to register at the link you provided your registration process absolutely will not complete. I can 100% assure you of this as this is much more involved with a merchant terminal than just a "Pay Now" button.
I linked to posts online saying they got scammed out of money. I linked to the working registration and the paypal account (which goes all the way up to the paypal login and page, so it definitely works [I'm not personally testing it]
Not to mention, the screenshot that pharside posted of sections1 and 2 of your license, do not allow you the right to broadcast your tournament (strictly states no internet streams, and yet you promise hq streams), and it doesn't allow for an online tournament (which yours is, except for the finals)
The part in the screenshot says that if Blizz was going to let them stream it, there would be a second document.
For some reason everyone seems to be taking a backwards approach at the way this system works. To be honest, I am trying to figure out why everyone is spending so much time attempting to figure out exactly how the system works.
Each round requires two wins in order to win that round. Based on feedback we are currently leaning towards making each round BO3, but we are currently dealing with this form of feedback instead. There is also a $1.25 million event that is being put together for the NeSE Finals in June 2012 and the NeSE is sponsoring other events. For example, the details were just finalized on an invitational event with ItsGoSu eSports where the NeSE will be providing a prize pool totaling at $1,750. It seems as though the opinion being displayed is that the NeSE is out for money or something along those lines. Then I have to ask, why would the NeSE be currently working towards making the registrations free? Doesn't really make sense...
On July 22 2011 16:27 NeSE wrote: There is also a $1.25 million event that is being put together for the NeSE Finals in June 2012 and the NeSE is sponsoring other events. .
On July 22 2011 16:22 jobebob wrote: Ok so after some digging here are some results.
A WHOIS search on the website returns some info: Created on: 15-Jun-11 Expires on: 15-Jun-12 Last Updated on: 19-Jun-11
Administrative Contact: Arre, Dannie arredannie@yahoo.com Silentium Enterprises 848 N. Rainbow Blvd Las Vegas, Nevada 89109 United States 702-998-8360 Fax --
A quick google maps search on the address returns nothing. There is no building for "Silentium Enterprises", I would expect a major tournament organizer to have some form of well established business or atleast a freakin building!
Dannie Arre's Experience VIP Host Drai's After Hours Privately Held; Entertainment industry
September 2009 – Present (1 year 11 months)
Drai's After Hours is the #1 After Hours club in Vegas. We have two separate rooms in a club, one half is the house side where we have some of the top DJs on the west coast spinning from 1:30am until a minimum of 7am but as long as the party is going the club stays open. We also have a VIP room featuring DJ Direct well-known and widely requested Hip Hop DJ, this room is private to bottle service clients and ladies only. Drai's has been bringing in the morning light on the Las Vegas strip for over a decade and it is no small wonder why it is the longest running club in Las Vegas. For reservations or guest listing or just to ask a few questions about the club or anything concerning the Vegas Night Life feel free to contact us.
so you are some random club owner in vegas? Sorry I don't feel you have the credentials to run such a tournament with shady math and no prior credibility. This is a fucking scam. Unless you can provide some real credentials, then I suggest that everyone stay away.
You are literally just a negative person. So because an individual doesn't have the credentials by YOUR standard they are not qualified to organize an eSports tournament? The linkedin you showed me is of a 25 year old individual who was a night club owner in Las Vegas? That is a pretty upstanding credential in my book. What were you doing at 25?
On July 22 2011 16:27 NeSE wrote: For some reason everyone seems to be taking a backwards approach at the way this system works. To be honest, I am trying to figure out why everyone is spending so much time attempting to figure out exactly how the system works.
Each round requires two wins in order to win that round. Based on feedback we are currently leaning towards making each round BO3, but we are currently dealing with this form of feedback instead. There is also a $1.25 million event that is being put together for the NeSE Finals in June 2012 and the NeSE is sponsoring other events. For example, the details were just finalized on an invitational event with ItsGoSu eSports where the NeSE will be providing a prize pool totaling at $1,750. It seems as though the opinion being displayed is that the NeSE is out for money or something along those lines. Then I have to ask, why would the NeSE be currently working towards making the registrations free? Doesn't really make sense...
I think the community would love to believe you're legit, however scams exists on the internet and we have learn to be critical of what we read. You are not known to the community, not backed by a big company and you're asking for money to register in your tournament. In order to work YOU have to give us reasons to trust you. ( how can we be sure that you will pay prizes etc?) A step on the right direction would be to post a youtube video where you present yourself, your team (i guess you're not working alone) , your office etc. You have all the time to make yourself legitimate, but it's goign to need more than a wall of text on TL and a website.
On July 22 2011 16:27 NeSE wrote: There is also a $1.25 million event that is being put together for the NeSE Finals in June 2012 and the NeSE is sponsoring other events. .
Sup CXG
Is this not direct proof that you're sole purpose is to be negative and attack our event? Here is what advice I have received from friends at other major organizers and I bid you farewell. Those who have any LEGITIMATE questions, comments or concerns about the NeSE PLEASE feel free to post here or on our forums. You can also email us at any time at esports@ne-se.com.
I will not be responding to any more negativity from this point forward you will simply have to wait for the announcements as everyone has suggested.
On July 22 2011 16:27 NeSE wrote: For some reason everyone seems to be taking a backwards approach at the way this system works. To be honest, I am trying to figure out why everyone is spending so much time attempting to figure out exactly how the system works.
Each round requires two wins in order to win that round. Based on feedback we are currently leaning towards making each round BO3, but we are currently dealing with this form of feedback instead. There is also a $1.25 million event that is being put together for the NeSE Finals in June 2012 and the NeSE is sponsoring other events. For example, the details were just finalized on an invitational event with ItsGoSu eSports where the NeSE will be providing a prize pool totaling at $1,750. It seems as though the opinion being displayed is that the NeSE is out for money or something along those lines. Then I have to ask, why would the NeSE be currently working towards making the registrations free? Doesn't really make sense...
I think the community would love to believe you're legit, however scams exists on the internet and we have learn to be critical of what we read. You are not known to the community, not backed by a big company and you're asking for money to register in your tournament. In order to work YOU have to give us reasons to trust you. ( how can we be sure that you will pay prizes etc?) A step on the right direction would be to post a youtube video where you present yourself, your team (i guess you're not working alone) , your office etc. You have all the time to make yourself legitimate, but it's goign to need more than a wall of text on TL and a website.
That is actually a phenomenal idea. Our YouTube Channel is www.youtube.com/USeSports. I am going to put together a video that introduces members of our staff that people can view on that YouTube channel. This is exactly why feedback like your's is valued and feedback like their's is a waste of time and energy.
On July 22 2011 16:22 jobebob wrote: Ok so after some digging here are some results.
A WHOIS search on the website returns some info: Created on: 15-Jun-11 Expires on: 15-Jun-12 Last Updated on: 19-Jun-11
Administrative Contact: Arre, Dannie arredannie@yahoo.com Silentium Enterprises 848 N. Rainbow Blvd Las Vegas, Nevada 89109 United States 702-998-8360 Fax --
A quick google maps search on the address returns nothing. There is no building for "Silentium Enterprises", I would expect a major tournament organizer to have some form of well established business or atleast a freakin building!
Dannie Arre's Experience VIP Host Drai's After Hours Privately Held; Entertainment industry
September 2009 – Present (1 year 11 months)
Drai's After Hours is the #1 After Hours club in Vegas. We have two separate rooms in a club, one half is the house side where we have some of the top DJs on the west coast spinning from 1:30am until a minimum of 7am but as long as the party is going the club stays open. We also have a VIP room featuring DJ Direct well-known and widely requested Hip Hop DJ, this room is private to bottle service clients and ladies only. Drai's has been bringing in the morning light on the Las Vegas strip for over a decade and it is no small wonder why it is the longest running club in Las Vegas. For reservations or guest listing or just to ask a few questions about the club or anything concerning the Vegas Night Life feel free to contact us.
so you are some random club owner in vegas? Sorry I don't feel you have the credentials to run such a tournament with shady math and no prior credibility. This is a fucking scam. Unless you can provide some real credentials, then I suggest that everyone stay away.
You are literally just a negative person. So because an individual doesn't have the credentials by YOUR standard they are not qualified to organize an eSports tournament? The linkedin you showed me is of a 25 year old individual who was a night club owner in Las Vegas? That is a pretty upstanding credential in my book. What were you doing at 25?
Yea but making people pay $20 upfront with payout given after the tourney ends IS something you need to have credibility for. Even IGN, who started out with a small $5,000 tourney, to test the waters, and that IGN they have money. What you are doing is asking us to take what you say on FAITH alone because you have nothing to back you up. Now you say that you are planning a $1.25 mil tournament LOL. The reason mlg is able to get away with entry fees is because they are fucking MLG, who are you and where are you getting this money from? Seriously dude
On July 22 2011 16:27 NeSE wrote: There is also a $1.25 million event that is being put together for the NeSE Finals in June 2012 and the NeSE is sponsoring other events. .
Sup CXG
Is this not direct proof that you're sole purpose is to be negative and attack our event? Here is what advice I have received from friends at other major organizers and I bid you farewell. Those who have any LEGITIMATE questions, comments or concerns about the NeSE PLEASE feel free to post here or on our forums. You can also email us at any time at esports@ne-se.com.
I will not be responding to any more negativity from this point forward you will simply have to wait for the announcements as everyone has suggested.
My sole purpose isn't to be negative and attack your event. My sole purpose is to prove you are a scam and I've provided plenty of proof that you never bothered to address and correct.
If you need explaining of my latest post, CXG was a huge event in 2004, promised hundreds of thousands of dollars, live finals in Las Vegas, ended up being a huge scam and the owner vanished with the money. Now if you seriously think we're not going to completely doubt your event when you appear out of nowhere, with no backing, promising tons of money with a live finals in Las Vegas, you're absolutely crazy. And so far, you've provided ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF to your legitimacy.
That post was half good feedback but then you started to just become hostile again, please just be more civil. I will sit here and answer questions all night long, all I am asking for is just a little common courtesy.
First and foremost, if I say we're going to put on that event, and we don't, do you stand to lose from the reputation? No. We do. So whats your point of even sharing your two cents? Regarding where we get this money from and what not? Its 2011, $1.25 million isn't what it used to be and frankly its none of your business or your concern where our current capital came from.
We also do not ask for faith, we show you our web site, you register and you get full access to that site. We also provide you with the scheduled dates so you know what you are paying for and when you are getting it. If you win a round and are eliminated in the future, it clearly states on the web site you will receive your prize amount with 7 to 10 days from the time you are eliminated. That is not waiting until the end of the tournament.
Why are there wow and halo scenes in your promotional video?
Great point actually, its a chopped video that we are still working on for final cuts, but there is good reason you see other games. The NeSE has plans to incorporate up to four more games next year into our exact tournament system if our first year is a success. Our commitment is to eSports in the US as I have previously stated, that does not mean ONLY StarCraft 2, as there are definitely other video games in eSports.
On July 22 2011 16:44 NeSE wrote: First and foremost, if I say we're going to put on that event, and we don't, do you stand to lose from the reputation?
On July 22 2011 16:27 NeSE wrote: There is also a $1.25 million event that is being put together for the NeSE Finals in June 2012 and the NeSE is sponsoring other events. .
Sup CXG
Is this not direct proof that you're sole purpose is to be negative and attack our event? Here is what advice I have received from friends at other major organizers and I bid you farewell. Those who have any LEGITIMATE questions, comments or concerns about the NeSE PLEASE feel free to post here or on our forums. You can also email us at any time at esports@ne-se.com.
I will not be responding to any more negativity from this point forward you will simply have to wait for the announcements as everyone has suggested.
My sole purpose isn't to be negative and attack your event. My sole purpose is to prove you are a scam and I've provided plenty of proof that you never bothered to address and correct.
If you need explaining of my latest post, CXG was a huge event in 2004, promised hundreds of thousands of dollars, live finals in Las Vegas, ended up being a huge scam and the owner vanished with the money. Now if you seriously think we're not going to completely doubt your event when you appear out of nowhere, with no backing, promising tons of money with a live finals in Las Vegas, you're absolutely crazy. And so far, you've provided ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF to your legitimacy.
I'm sorry for what people have done, and I'm sorry you feel this way. At this time I'm done going back and forth with you, time will show who is being honest and who is being ignorant.
On July 22 2011 16:44 NeSE wrote: That post was half good feedback but then you started to just become hostile again, please just be more civil. I will sit here and answer questions all night long, all I am asking for is just a little common courtesy.
First and foremost, if I say we're going to put on that event, and we don't, do you stand to lose from the reputation? No. We do. So whats your point of even sharing your two cents? Regarding where we get this money from and what not? Its 2011, $1.25 million isn't what it used to be and frankly its none of your business or your concern where our current capital came from.
We also do not ask for faith, we show you our web site, you register and you get full access to that site. We also provide you with the scheduled dates so you know what you are paying for and when you are getting it. If you win a round and are eliminated in the future, it clearly states on the web site you will receive your prize amount with 7 to 10 days from the time you are eliminated. That is not waiting until the end of the tournament.
The problem is that it does not matter when you payout. Once the players register, you can just run off with the money. This is the reason why a venture such as your needs to more than just faith.
The reason your system is so alarming is because the rules explain it something like this:
Even if the player amounts aren't perfect multiples of 4, and a round robin happens at 50 players, how does that impact a net gain of half the entry fee? If anything, the first few rounds should double money then the prize pool should be distributed in a different manner for the top 64 players. No one will want to play a tournament where half the money goes to the organizer.
On July 22 2011 16:44 NeSE wrote: That post was half good feedback but then you started to just become hostile again, please just be more civil. I will sit here and answer questions all night long, all I am asking for is just a little common courtesy.
First and foremost, if I say we're going to put on that event, and we don't, do you stand to lose from the reputation? No. We do. So whats your point of even sharing your two cents? Regarding where we get this money from and what not? Its 2011, $1.25 million isn't what it used to be and frankly its none of your business or your concern where our current capital came from.
We also do not ask for faith, we show you our web site, you register and you get full access to that site. We also provide you with the scheduled dates so you know what you are paying for and when you are getting it. If you win a round and are eliminated in the future, it clearly states on the web site you will receive your prize amount with 7 to 10 days from the time you are eliminated. That is not waiting until the end of the tournament.
The problem is that it does not matter when you payout. Once the players register, you can just run off with the money. This is the reason why a venture such as your needs to more than just faith.
Pretty sure he already said he's working with Its Gosu to put on a tourment? Exactly what do you want?
Joebob, the moral of the story here is if YOU do not believe it is legit even after all the announcements DON'T REGISTER. We are looking to provide the best gaming environment on the internet to people who are open to the atmosphere. If you're a negative nancy, why even get involved at all? Just mind your own and go on about your business...
On July 22 2011 16:48 Glockateer wrote: The reason your system is so alarming is because the rules explain it something like this:
Even if the player amounts aren't perfect multiples of 4, and a round robin happens at 50 players, how does that impact a net gain of half the entry fee? If anything, the first few rounds should double money then the prize pool should be distributed in a different manner for the top 64 players. No one will want to play a tournament where half the money goes to the organizer.
Not taking sides or what, but seeing all this math sort of annoys me. You end up with a big number, and get annoyed at the organizers turning up a big profit. Doesn't the top four get a plus two trip to Vegas PLUS the crazy first, second, and third grand prizes?
On July 22 2011 16:44 NeSE wrote: That post was half good feedback but then you started to just become hostile again, please just be more civil. I will sit here and answer questions all night long, all I am asking for is just a little common courtesy.
First and foremost, if I say we're going to put on that event, and we don't, do you stand to lose from the reputation? No. We do. So whats your point of even sharing your two cents? Regarding where we get this money from and what not? Its 2011, $1.25 million isn't what it used to be and frankly its none of your business or your concern where our current capital came from.
We also do not ask for faith, we show you our web site, you register and you get full access to that site. We also provide you with the scheduled dates so you know what you are paying for and when you are getting it. If you win a round and are eliminated in the future, it clearly states on the web site you will receive your prize amount with 7 to 10 days from the time you are eliminated. That is not waiting until the end of the tournament.
Well, let's see. If you say you're putting on the event, take everyone's money from signups, and then don''t have the event, there's going to be a lot of people out of a lot of money. "Its 2011, $1.25 million isn't what it used to be and frankly its none of your business or your concern where our current capital came from." Yeah, biggest esports prizepool EVER by about half a million, with no sponsors, and you expect people to think you're legit?
Why are there wow and halo scenes in your promotional video?
Great point actually, its a chopped video that we are still working on for final cuts, but there is good reason you see other games. The NeSE has plans to incorporate up to four more games next year into our exact tournament system if our first year is a success. Our commitment is to eSports in the US as I have previously stated, that does not mean ONLY StarCraft 2, as there are definitely other video games in eSports.
So I heard you like copyright violations? There's at least 5 in that video.
On July 22 2011 16:48 Glockateer wrote: The reason your system is so alarming is because the rules explain it something like this:
Even if the player amounts aren't perfect multiples of 4, and a round robin happens at 50 players, how does that impact a net gain of half the entry fee? If anything, the first few rounds should double money then the prize pool should be distributed in a different manner for the top 64 players. No one will want to play a tournament where half the money goes to the organizer.
You have demonstrated a really great point. I am going to get a full breakdown together that displays where all of the prize pool money goes including the tax on all transactions starting with our first round and ending with our finals. I will have this posted most likely under the Tournament Schedule sections of the web site which are both on the main site and the StarCraft II Game Site.
I will also attempt to PM you on this forum when I have uploaded these successfully and hopefully that will clear some of the air.
Sigh, G2Wolf you are intensely persistent just to be a negative individual. YES SOMEONE IS PUTTING THAT MUCH MONEY INTO A PRIZE POOL FOR ESPORTS A CORPORATION THAT HAS THAT SORT OF CAPITAL BELIEVES IN ESPORTS IS THIS SO HARD TO BELIEVE?
Stats: The video game industry as a whole is nearly FIVE TIMES LARGER than the National Football League in annual revenue. The average viewership for the 5 largest video games is nearly two times larger than the average viewership for a Major League Baseball game. Contrary to what you believe, eSports is worth WAY MORE than a mere $4 million prize pool, its should be seeing BILLIONS at this point overall. Considering what NFL players make and that 5 video games put together get more asses in seats and more eyes on streams than 1 NFL broadcast.
On July 22 2011 16:48 Glockateer wrote: The reason your system is so alarming is because the rules explain it something like this:
Even if the player amounts aren't perfect multiples of 4, and a round robin happens at 50 players, how does that impact a net gain of half the entry fee? If anything, the first few rounds should double money then the prize pool should be distributed in a different manner for the top 64 players. No one will want to play a tournament where half the money goes to the organizer.
Not taking sides or what, but seeing all this math sort of annoys me. You end up with a big number, and get annoyed at the organizers turning up a big profit. Doesn't the top four get a plus two trip to Vegas PLUS the crazy first, second, and third grand prizes?
I don't mind if an organizer makes profit but as I see it, they're doing 4 tournaments such as this to get the top 16 finals (4 from each tournament). I'm not an expert in profit margins but I don't see why it'd be half of it.
On July 22 2011 16:56 NeSE wrote: Sigh, G2Wolf you are intensely persistent just to be a negative individual. YES SOMEONE IS PUTTING THAT MUCH MONEY INTO A PRIZE POOL FOR ESPORTS A CORPORATION THAT HAS THAT SORT OF CAPITAL BELIEVES IN ESPORTS IS THIS SO HARD TO BELIEVE?
Stats: The video game industry as a whole is nearly FIVE TIMES LARGER than the National Football League in annual revenue. The average viewership for the 5 largest video games is nearly two times larger than the average viewership for a Major League Baseball game. Contrary to what you believe, eSports is worth WAY MORE than a mere $4 million prize pool, its should be seeing BILLIONS at this point overall. Considering what NFL players make and that 5 video games put together get more asses in seats and more eyes on streams than 1 NFL broadcast.
Someone didn't read the commandments...
Edit: Also, that is pretty hard to believe. I mean I suppose NASL kinda came from the same boat, but the difference is we all know and love iNcontroL, and this NeSE has nothing going for it as of now.
Glockateer I assure you based on all of our costs and everything all put together the NeSE will be able to fund the event that has been planned and barely escape the year. This is our first year in this industry and no business expects to turn a profit when they are just getting started with something. The only way the NeSE would turn a profit is if there were a very large amount of registrations and we elected NOT to utilize that capital to increase broadcast quality. However, if the NeSE received 50,000 registrations they would be able to acquire the interest of enough sponsors to refund everyone their entry fee and make the registrations free. If this unbelievable scenario took place we would then increase our registration limit extensively and be able to make the tournament available internationally. Without a registration fee we would not be limited to hosting in the United States alone.
On July 22 2011 16:56 NeSE wrote: Sigh, G2Wolf you are intensely persistent just to be a negative individual. YES SOMEONE IS PUTTING THAT MUCH MONEY INTO A PRIZE POOL FOR ESPORTS A CORPORATION THAT HAS THAT SORT OF CAPITAL BELIEVES IN ESPORTS IS THIS SO HARD TO BELIEVE?
On July 22 2011 15:55 crojar wrote: I'm basing that on these claims:
-Players who win the first round of the tournament will be awarded 20 credits to their account and each round won by a player will show as credits equal to dollars (1 credit = 1 dollar). Once a player has either been eliminated or won that tournament and advanced to the NE-SE Playoffs, they will receive payment for all the prize money they earned throughout that tournament.
-The system will continue on in this fashion where 25% of all participants in each round will be deemed winners and advance further until we reach 50 players or teams.
-At 50 players or teams we will transition from a multiple bracket system into a round robin setting. Then, those 50 players or teams will compete day by day in scheduled, arranged matches for a two week time period.
Maybe I will re-read, perhaps I made a mistake.
That is 100% correct, I have to be completely honest with you I really don't seem to be completely understanding your system. So far all the systems I've seen posted up here are much more complicated than what you see in our office.
Then post that.
I can think of no legitimate reason why you would want to keep the PAYOUT structure secret.
On July 22 2011 16:48 Glockateer wrote: The reason your system is so alarming is because the rules explain it something like this:
Even if the player amounts aren't perfect multiples of 4, and a round robin happens at 50 players, how does that impact a net gain of half the entry fee? If anything, the first few rounds should double money then the prize pool should be distributed in a different manner for the top 64 players. No one will want to play a tournament where half the money goes to the organizer.
You have demonstrated a really great point. I am going to get a full breakdown together that displays where all of the prize pool money goes including the tax on all transactions starting with our first round and ending with our finals. I will have this posted most likely under the Tournament Schedule sections of the web site which are both on the main site and the StarCraft II Game Site.
I will also attempt to PM you on this forum when I have uploaded these successfully and hopefully that will clear some of the air.
OK, good. I honestly think you should take it easy with the advertising until you have the necessary information on hand, because until its presented nothing you say can convince anyone.
Jinro, our payout structure is Not private and it is posted publicly. Everyone is asking us for much more detailed and internal information.
EDIT I agree with you 100% we were really just trying to get the word out and let everyone know there was going to be announcements in a week. Just trying to provide the community with a heads up. I am not at all upset about the feedback we received all-in-all this has been productive to say the least.
On July 22 2011 16:51 NeSE wrote: Joebob, the moral of the story here is if YOU do not believe it is legit even after all the announcements DON'T REGISTER. We are looking to provide the best gaming environment on the internet to people who are open to the atmosphere. If you're a negative nancy, why even get involved at all? Just mind your own and go on about your business...
Dannie (can I call you Dannie?), I'm trying to help you out here. I don't want you to stay as some random waiter for a lame ass club in vegas. I want to help you get into the SC2 business! I suggest you build up some credibility.Get a small scale tournament going, make a good show and then maybe we can take your claims for more than just a pile of horseshit. The reason I'm being a negative nancy is that I have an aversion to asshole trying to scam the players I enjoy watching.
On July 22 2011 17:02 NeSE wrote: That is called a Personal Problem.
No, it's called being suspicious of a corporation that refuses to be named and is willing to spit out stupidly huge amounts of money with no promise for any kind of roi on it.
The payout structure is publicly posted and you can see it here throughout this forum as well as on our web site. You are asking for more information than that sir.
Joebob, we have already sponsored some small scale qualifier events and we are currently sponsoring a tournament with ItsGoSu eSports (if I type this again I'm for certain singing it in my sleep tonight if I ever get to sleep). We will also continue to host more events of this nature all the way through until registrations are over for Tournament A.
If you elect miss out on Tournament A because you assumed we were bad for business with the sacred $20, that is your own decision. This is also a free country so you can continuously post your feelings about the event just about anywhere. I can assure you that you have done me no favors in any of your posts and at no time did I get any sort of a vibe that you are attempting to assist me here.
On July 22 2011 17:02 NeSE wrote: That is called a Personal Problem.
No, it's called being suspicious of a corporation that refuses to be named and is willing to spit out stupidly huge amounts of money with no promise for any kind of roi on it.
That is a more detailed description of a Personal Problem.
On July 22 2011 17:02 NeSE wrote: That is called a Personal Problem.
No, it's called being suspicious of a corporation that refuses to be named and is willing to spit out stupidly huge amounts of money with no promise for any kind of roi on it.
That is a more detailed description of a Personal Problem.
A personal problem because I highly HIGHLY doubt any corporation is gonna spend outrageous amounts of money without any kind of roi? No, that's simple business sense.
I assure you that your business sense is misleading you. On that note, I have to be heading off to bed I have several obligations first thing in the morning to tend to. I will absolutely be coming back to this thread tomorrow morning so please feel free to continue to post. If you would also prefer a more immediate response feel free to contact us at esports@ne-se.com.
People need something first before they believe in all you're saying, hosting a small tournament with a thousand or two of prize pool shouldn't be a problem and it would capture a ton of attention, especially enough to earn people's trust then, rather than basing everything on your words and faith, no proof, no trust. Wolf and Jinro are definitely correct in that matter.
Just mail Blizzard and ask them if this tournament is legit before paying any fee. They have answered this kind of questions in the past, regarding sites claiming to sell merchandise from Blizzard and tournaments being held. at least in europe thay are very good at responding to this kind of things.
I can also mention that one of the worlds largest tournament organizer within esports, Greykarn at Dreamhack, tweeted about this tournament calling it a scam and demanding action from Blizzard.
Very interesting. I made a post about this before, after seeing the z33k tourney, but it got closed with a quickness. At first glance it does sound a bit fishy. I think it would help immeasurably to get a big name player on board to boost credibility or, for that matter, actually attain some. Seeing as how this would be a pretty large event I can't think of a reason you wouldnt want to get someone with recognition to back you.
a big thing that made me O_o is that you make your profile and it instantly wants you to pay and there is no bio, no actual editing of a profile of any sort. Maybe after you pay? haha... cool...
Who are your partners? Your partners are mentioned several times, and huge amounts of a prize pool is brought up, but no where is mentioned who these partners are. Why would the partners wish to remain anonymous? Corporations like advertising.
If it helps any, I've actually talked to this guy on the phone for almost an hour and I do believe that he and his event are legitimate. Sure he doesn't have established eSports people running it, but he does have a team of people dedicated to this and he is passionate about eSports.
While he may not have approached this thread the right way, don't let that detract from this project. If it's successful it will be awesome. I have faith in it.
As the Director at Cyber Sports Network, I actually want to see this event happen and be a success. It will only help eSports, but my gut tells me there is something wrong with this. Maybe, I am envious of not having the sort of investment that his company appears to have.. I can admit to that, but most of me is feeling a bit strange about the circumstances behind this entire thing.
Now listen.. as I have been involved in running esports competitions for over 10 years.. very little people on this site even know who I am. I am not a SC2 player.. although I am enjoying watching it and seeing the drama that unfolds with it...but CSN ventured into running events just the same. No one had heard of us.. we were brand new. Granted, none of our admins were new to SC2.. as we had come from the NESL and we started our events by running small Clash of The Houses type events with well known Korean houses.. then moved onto to NA events with well established pros.
Why were we (CSN) able to do this without the same sort of back lash regarding our events? I think mostly because we started small and created a relationship with players and the community. If the money is real..and the event is real for this.. that is great, but my suggestion would have been for them to announce their smaller event (the one running on Aug 4/5) .. finish it.. pay out and then announce something big. The reason that NASL was able to announce a full fledged league + LAN final was because they had the backing of several top pros. Granted.. they even came off as a bit shady too. Why? Because they too offered up what looked like a very cheesy website, lack of information and such.. but in the end it was the 'relationships' they had created with the gamers and viewers that paid off and allowed them to move forward.
I would suggest, Dannie, that you start a new thread that speaks directly to the community and highlights your upcoming smaller events. Make sure you give details.. introduce yourself to the community as a player and esports enthusiest. I have no problem with the idea that money will be made from this. In fact.. that's a very good thing for esports. What you may not be aware of though is that in the past life of esports.. including CPL, CXG, etc.. there were models similar to yours (announce big events.. with big money.. blah blah)..that ended up milking gamers and not paying out. Scam or not.. your best bet is to start small at this point and build off of the good will of the players and community at large.
Now.. regarding the format and the prizing that seems to be a hot issue.
Here is how I imagined your system... similar to how I might run it. Because your system allows for an unlimited number of entries and does not rely on a single bracket system.. this is how I would see it happening.. and correct me if I am wrong.
Lets assume 64 players sign up .. You are using a system called .. "Bracket Series".. which are a unlimited number of 'small' brackets where the winners of each of those brackets move into the next 'round'.. where they are then regrouped into new (and random) brackets of 4. The process continues until you have the desired number of 'finalist'
64 entries = 16 (4 person) brackets
16 winners then regrouped into 4 more (4 person) brackets
From there you will have 4 winners that can then battle for the finals.
This is the simple version.
So.. 64 entries = $1280.00 in entry fees
The first 16 winners win $20 each for a total of $320 Profit from the 1st round is currently at $960.00
The next winners (4) win $40 each for a total of $160.00 Profit after 2 rounds now is $800
The final winner (1) will now win $80 (doubling each time if I am correct) Profit after 3 rounds is now $720.
This make sense to me and is a pretty sound business investment. Even if you put an additional $300 into the final.. your profit is still $420.. This is good.. and a solid business model, as winners earning are increased each round and all is good. Granted, the losers are feeding the winners..but that happens in almost every sport. Technically.. if this is your setup.. I see nothing wrong with it....however.. there is so much confusion with it and its even possible that my math is wrong as well.. but if that is the case, then its a perfect example of why the system/payout needs to be outlined much better and with more detail.
I suggest that as community.. we continue to dig into this.. but we be patient with it and see where it takes us. I agree that it was a smart move on TL's part to remove it as a featured event and allow the community to decide on its value/validity. But again.. my suggest to the company organizers is to start small.. and build a 'relationship' with the community.
I agree with you, we will begin putting some smaller stuff together and taking a smaller outreach over the next few weeks. We are going to begin by finalizing these aspects of the ItsGoSu eSports tournament and post that throughout.
To legitimize this why can't we get a statement from It's Gosu Esports. They're a known esports brand and them confirming to work with NeSE should be fine to prove the reality of this tournament.
On July 22 2011 19:49 Jiddra wrote: Why make this so complicated?
Just mail Blizzard and ask them if this tournament is legit before paying any fee. They have answered this kind of questions in the past, regarding sites claiming to sell merchandise from Blizzard and tournaments being held. at least in europe thay are very good at responding to this kind of things.
I can also mention that one of the worlds largest tournament organizer within esports, Greykarn at Dreamhack, tweeted about this tournament calling it a scam and demanding action from Blizzard.
I have read much of the above concerns and it seems like people have more of a problem with the structure as if there wasn't ever going to be enough players. however i dont believe this could ever be an issue since there are the top 2% of players in master leagues across each realm and they are all capable of putting in a solid showing in this tournament setting. winning against a few people to win your entry back as well as moving on to have a chance at winning even more on top of that while playing sc2 at a semi-competitive lvl.
Also being able to watch or show the replays to your friends right there on the website, sounds like both a pretty solid idea as well as a good way to keep up on what some of the higher lvl players are using as current builds. I think way too many people have too much time on their hands, and sit on forums trying to put in their own judgement on things they don't, or aren't as informed on as they act like they are.
Both the structure and the idea of this tournament sounds like a cool alternative to grinding on the Ladder week after week. I know ill be checking it out and hopefully those people who chimed in b4 will be silenced once things come a little closer to the coming events.
Howdy folks. Ayesee, Executive Manager for It's Gosu eSports here.
First and foremost, I find it so encouraging that the enthusiasm and passion of everyone involved in our community leads to everyone looking out for everyone else, and turning a skeptical eye to anyone "new" they think might be operating with malicious intentions. While it's certainly an uncomfortable process for almost everyone involved, I think that everyone in this thread who has thrown in their two cents, be it involving skepticism or involving statements of patience and encouragement, deserves a pat on the back. It's this sort of attention to detail that makes our community as wonderful as it is.
With that said, in the case of Dannie and the NE-SE, I'm quite happy to say that he is 100% accurate concerning working with us to put together a tournament, and that, so far, he's been nothing but courteous and professional, and has given us absolutely no reason to doubt his integrity, or the integrity of his endeavors.
In this announcement, I feel I addressed things about as concisely as possible:
“While the NE-SE is a brand new name on the eSports block, they approached us with as much courtesy and professionalism as one could possibly ask for,” Chambers, who also serves as an Executive Manager for It's Gosu eSports, said of the partnership. “They had a plan, and we have the talent and experience; really, it's an excellent match for what we're both looking to accomplish. They want to spread their name and visibility concerning their event, and we want to continue to serve the Starcraft II community in as large a way as possible.”
In reaction to concerns over the NE-SE's legitimacy, Chambers said: “Within 24 hours the monetary assets and support the NE-SE had promised was provided, and we're already taking all necessary steps to make this partnership and our event a success. While this is a new venture for everyone involved, they've done nothing to this point to make us, It's Gosu, doubt their legitimacy. In short, the checks have been on time, our contact has been consistent and forthright, and we can't wait to see how far this partnership can take us all.”
Concerning the tournament itself, tentatively titled the It's Gosu eSports Invitational, we will be releasing additional information in the next 24-48 hours on both It's Gosu and Team Liquid.
Once again, on behalf of It's Gosu and the rest of the TL community, I want to personally thank those who have been so adamant in insuring that things concerning the NE-SE are above board, and I can only hope that this post helps clarify things a bit.
On July 23 2011 05:47 StrafedProtoss wrote: I have read much of the above concerns and it seems like people have more of a problem with the structure as if there wasn't ever going to be enough players. however i dont believe this could ever be an issue since there are the top 2% of players in master leagues across each realm and they are all capable of putting in a solid showing in this tournament setting. winning against a few people to win your entry back as well as moving on to have a chance at winning even more on top of that while playing sc2 at a semi-competitive lvl.
Also being able to watch or show the replays to your friends right there on the website, sounds like both a pretty solid idea as well as a good way to keep up on what some of the higher lvl players are using as current builds. I think way too many people have too much time on their hands, and sit on forums trying to put in their own judgement on things they don't, or aren't as informed on as they act like they are.
Both the structure and the idea of this tournament sounds like a cool alternative to grinding on the Ladder week after week. I know ill be checking it out and hopefully those people who chimed in b4 will be silenced once things come a little closer to the coming events.
People would take you more seriously if you'd stop making new accounts to pose as players when you work for ne-se. Most of the concerns are about the fact that tons of money doesn't just pop out of nowhere with no sponsors or apparent backing. Saying you have the backing for a $1.25 million dollar event when you can't even name the corporation doing it and have never run anything before, without any experienced staff, is just too good to be true. The structure is also set up to increase the companies profit by so much with so little effort. As for the money being put up for It's Gosu, it's not hard to provide a couple hundred dollars when you plan on scamming people out of tens of thousands. Scam's been done before, just ask Chris Hill, organizer for CXG.
I'll still wait for the announcement from Blizzard before I show my support.
I recommend you post a picture of the tournament structure that you have in your office you have mentioned multiple times. It may help alleviate some of the skepticism. You've gotten yourself in to a pickle now and the only way out is with a open book.
The tournament for Its GoSu eSports is not a "couple hundred bucks" there is a 1st Place Prize of $1,000, 2nd Place $500 and 3rd Place $250. We will also continue to sponsor and host more events similar to this one including many more events with Its GoSu eSports. I do thoroughly agree with ItsGoSu eSports and, as I previously have stated, it is not a bad sign at all that everyone is so concerned. Everyone has every right to be concerned and we have done everything we can at this point to show you all we are a legitimate organization.
We will still be featuring all of our formal announcements throughout Blizzard's StarCraft 2 web sites as scheduled. I am no longer going to be able to respond to people who are challenging our legitimacy, at this time all I can suggest to you is that you wait for the Blizzard announcements. If at that time you are still skeptical, I suggest you wait until after we have hosted a few events and earned your trust. We would really appreciate feedback on this thread though regarding things we can do differently. We have decided to change the map pool to the GSL map pool and will be making formal publications before the end of next week. We are also looking for feedback regarding the first 5 rounds of our event. Currently the event is a single elimination format for the first five rounds, people have suggested making these rounds BO3. If you could post your personal opinion here we would really appreciate it.
Furthermore, we are in the process of establishing more events than what you have read here with ItsGoSu and we need your feedback. We would love to test out some new formats and styles of tournaments, but we need some great ideas from the community. Post here and let us know what would be a great format for a tournament and if the public agrees we assure that event will be established inside the next four to six weeks.
On behalf of the NeSE, we thoroughly appreciate the concern of everyone displayed throughout this thread and we are looking forward to earning your trust and establishing ourselves throughout eSports.
There are lots of avenues to use SC2 to make money, watch fun games and compete in fun games without paying $20 up front to an inexperienced middleman who plans to keep, what, 50% of the entry fees?
Questionable to keep such a big chunk of entry fees and questionable to guarantee such a big prize pool even if you don't get many sign ups.
Think it would make more sense if NeSe kept operating expenses plus a small percentage of the entry fees, and the rest of the money went straight into the prize pool to determine its size.
That's how WSOP does it; would really mitigate the "some guy who barely knows anything about the game is trying to scam players out of a lot of money" vibe that, honestly, this event gives off.
Z33K.com is hosting the NeSE Open Qualifier #2. The tourney is restricted to North American players.
Winners will receive: 1st Place = $250 + Free entry to the NeSE 1v1 Tournament A 2nd Place = Free entry to the NeSE 1v1 Tournament A
Registrations will take place over the next two weeks and game play will commence on the following weekend. Last qualifier's winners were sixjaxDDE and ONEKyhol, Congratulations again to them.
So why are you making accounts and pretending to be someone else to post in this thread as? Or is that new, just created, one post account not really you? Edit, also, entering seems kind of pointless unless you are one of the very top players....the way I see it, for people who don't expect to make the top few spots, entering is pointless. I have to beat four other high level players (because thats all who will enter it, just like with nasl), just to win my entrance fee back, have to beat 16 top players to win the same amount I payed to enter the tournament, and have to beat 64 players to earn a prize only equal to 3 times the fee I pay to get in. For example. the NASL season 2 qualifier had 128 players. Look at those players, split the bracket in half, and see if you would wager 20 dollars that you can beat everyone there on one half of the bracket, just to win 60 dollars.....
No Newguy that post was not made by myself, I have been responding to everyone from this account, in my opinion creating another account like that would be pointless. It is quite clear that something as obvious as that at surface level would be immediately exploited by most.
That being said, the format of the tournament is designed to incorporate as many people as possibly and people of all rankings, that is the point. For the structure of the event; you only have to beat two players in order to win your entry fee back, and the tournament follows that exact format all the way to the last round. The last round we transition to a Round Robin where the final players will compete in two weeks of scheduled matches.
For a player to make their way all the way to the final round they need to go 10-0 which would land you in the Final Fifty.
This tournament is going to be great for e-sports. I like the round-by-round prizes. I'm a baddie diamond player though so I think I will try my hand in the 2v2 tournament. Hell, it's about time a serious 2v2 tournament popped up. They had 2v2 leagues in BW and it hasn't gotten popular in SC2 yet.
Still haven't seen a proper brake down of the tournament/prize system. I'm sure everyone would benefit from you posting the one you have in your office.
G2wolf your a pretty funny guy trying so hard to troll people on forums I have one post well 2 posts because i play the game rather than trolling forums all day. But you can say whatever you want because people who act like they know what they're talking about over the internet are the real bad asses, or "G2wolfs", of the world. Prob troll those forums all day i bet well GL with that i came and posted because i heard about this tournament and am a full believer in it's potential to add an interesting reason to play the game and keep up with what the competition is doing for wins.
"Hi my name is G2Wolf. I like to try to prove everything is a scam regardless of multiple sources telling it may not be(Blizzard contract, It's Gosu statement). I love to try and downgrade any form of tournament that boasts a large prize pool that looks suspicious and post in the thread millions of times to alert the TL people that this is a scam"
I personally hope that this isn't just to shutup all the haters, and so far the NE-SE guys have provided a lot of information to suggest it isn't a scam but only time will tell. Haters will be proved wrong I hope :\
On July 24 2011 11:58 Magrath wrote: Still haven't seen a proper brake down of the tournament/prize system. I'm sure everyone would benefit from you posting the one you have in your office.
G2wolf your a pretty funny guy trying so hard to troll people on forums I have one post well 2 posts because i play the game rather than trolling forums all day. But you can say whatever you want because people who act like they know what they're talking about over the internet are the real bad asses, or "G2wolfs", of the world. Prob troll those forums all day i bet well GL with that i came and posted because i heard about this tournament and am a full believer in it's potential to add an interesting reason to play the game and keep up with what the competition is doing for wins.
On July 25 2011 05:31 MonkSEA wrote: "Hi my name is G2Wolf. I like to try to prove everything is a scam regardless of multiple sources telling it may not be(Blizzard contract, It's Gosu statement). I love to try and downgrade any form of tournament that boasts a large prize pool that looks suspicious and post in the thread millions of times to alert the TL people that this is a scam"
I personally hope that this isn't just to shutup all the haters, and so far the NE-SE guys have provided a lot of information to suggest it isn't a scam but only time will tell. Haters will be proved wrong I hope :\
And I've posted plenty of information that would point to this being a scam, and when nese's respond to it is mostly to dodge it, that doesn't exactly help prove nese's point any. The blizzard contract that was pm'd is one that can easily be found on google and edited, and also wouldn't prove either way whether the money is actually there.
On July 24 2011 11:58 Magrath wrote: Still haven't seen a proper brake down of the tournament/prize system. I'm sure everyone would benefit from you posting the one you have in your office.
yes there has been.
Could you link me to it? I followed this thread pretty closely, but maybe I missed it.
SK gaming decided that it was legitimate enough to keep it up and leave it frontpaged.
Statement from SK|Holy_KR in the comments of the post. + Show Spoiler +
We have discussed your league with our staff, and we deemed your league legitimate for now, that's why the news post is still here. If we had any sufficient reason to believe your league was illegitimate this news would not be up on the front page. However, so far it seems good, we hope your endeavor goes well. For not only Starcraft 2, but for all of eSports.
I may be out of line here, but has anyone else seen the trailer, or promo for this event?
From that alone it screams scam. What event that boosts a substantial prize pool with a qualified staff with 16 months of preparation have that kind of video. If they had a tournament ready to start that was taking money as well, referencing the world series of gaming and all they ran into was legal issues you would think they would have a better video. Anyone remember NASL promo video? Or even smaller like HD/Husky's videos. Who would watch this and think, this remotely legit.
I'm not against profiting so I don't mind the accusations against a pyramid scheme, but how do you expect us to put our faith in something that starts us off with that kind of video?
Also you said yall were discussing making the entry fee non existent. Do that one thing for just the first event and you would solve everyone's concern over legitimacy.
Final thing, did I read correctly when it said that the final 50 players of every event would have to play in a round fucking robin? That means you would have to play 49 players in 2 weeks? So best case scenario would be 3 to 4 matches per player a day. And hopefully you would make it at least a bo3 which is a huge investment time wise for an amateur player.
Assuming this isn't a scam, what's wrong with making some money? Businesses SHOULD make money.
Ignoring skill: You have ~1/4 chance of breaking even and ~1/16 (or is my math horribly wrong?) of doubling up. People should stop crying about entry fees, I wish there were more of them.
We apologize for the video not being up to your standards. There are clips of multiple video games because the NeSE plans to incorporate more games into our tournament structure in future years. It was not done accidentally and that video was created for our Coming Soon page, that is all. Most Coming Soon landing pages are simply Caution Tape stating "Coming Soon", we elected to put something a little stronger together. Until we have some replays to display on the YouTube Channel from the ItsGoSu Tournament this was the only video content available for the page.
We appreciate your criticism though, we have already made some changes and the more you say the better our tournament will get.
Edit: Regarding the Final Fifty round: The four winners of the Final Fifty round not only win the $640 attached to that round which brings them to a total of $1,240 but also a plus two guest list for an all-expense paid trip to Las Vegas. In Vegas, they will compete in the NeSE Finals; 1st Place- $30,000 2nd Place- $15,000 3rd Place- $7,500. We will also provide complimentary arrangements throughout all of Las Vegas for players ranging from dinners to shows and night life reservations. Yes, the round will require all 50 players to participate in scheduled matches throughout two weeks to prove the four best beyond any doubt. In the end, each tournament is an extensive, high paying qualifier event.
On July 25 2011 23:57 Griznah wrote: Assuming this isn't a scam, what's wrong with making some money? Businesses SHOULD make money.
Ignoring skill: You have ~1/4 chance of breaking even and ~1/16 (or is my math horribly wrong?) of doubling up. People should stop crying about entry fees, I wish there were more of them.
It is a 25% every round until the last round of the tournament. Each round consists of a multitude of four person brackets. Each player will fall into one four person bracket and it functions like any other bracket from there. The top two play each other and the bottom two play each other. The winner of those two games play, the winner wins the round. Two match ups per round, each round, for 5 rounds continuously. A player who goes 6-0 will earn SEVEN times what you put in as an entry fee ($20 vs $140) which does not include your $20 in return. All together, after going 6-0 you will have earned 160 credits(dollars) minus the 20 you started with by entering, and you are up 140 credits(dollars) after three rounds.
This is clearly a scam, I hope no one falls for it. The idea that the simple math that anyone with a modicum of business or mathematical knowledge could is far more complex that what was being done "in the office" of a company promising tens of thousands of dollars in payouts and has the backing of Blizzard is ludicrous.
Hell, the idea that some 25 year old night club employee with no experience in e-sports is going to get that backing in the first place is highly questionable. Following that up with astro-turf posters like StrafedProtoss http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2842434679 does not build trust.
Using the post from the website Round 1- $20 Round 2- $40 Round 3- $80 Round 4- $160 Round 5- $320 Round 6- $640 Round 7 (Round Robin)- $1,280
In order to have enough people to have a 6 round competition in which 1 out of 4 people advance each round you need
4 * 4 * 4 * 4 * 4 * 4 or 4^6 or 4096 players. Total intake from this would be $81920
So either one does not have enough players to actually have a competition of this length or organizers will be pocketing approximately 50% of the entry fees and the "expected return" for entering this competition for the average competitor is ~.5 (equivalent of flipping a coin). This of course does not include disqualifications which would increase how much $ is pocketed.
However, this language is also modified so that the above is contradicted.
At 50 players or teams we will transition from a multiple bracket system into a round robin setting. Then, those 50 players or teams will compete day by day in scheduled, arranged matches for a two week time period.
Which is it? The prize pool says round 7 is when this is "scheduled" to happen. This would then require 204800 entries or something like 15-20% of all NA SC2 players in season 2. Laughable. And that's before we see that if this was actually achieved, the total income would be just under $4.1 million
And any organizer able to secure funding would know its laughable.
Let's say this was 4 times as successful as NASL Open Season 1 ($10 buy in) which drew <256 players (call it an even 1024). One in 21 would make the final 50 and log4 12 is just over 2. 50 times 640 = 32000, or $12K more than income. Total losses would be ~$20K.
Or far more likely, no one would actually get paid because this is a scam. Huge money promises, vague assurances of being on the up and up, questionable background of the only legal entity associated with the website and a business model that makes no sense = run.
PantsB, I'm going to say this one more time, I did not post from StrafedProtoss, this was already explained. As far your entire post, ultimately you are saying Blizzard absolutely would not back this organization so it must be a scam. So, if Blizzard formally announced this tournament throughout the StarCraft 2 web sites would you be willing to admit your theory is proven falsified?
On July 27 2011 11:18 NeSE wrote: PantsB, I'm going to say this one more time, I did not post from StrafedProtoss, this was already explained. As far your entire post, ultimately you are saying Blizzard absolutely would not back this organization so it must be a scam. So, if Blizzard formally announced this tournament throughout the StarCraft 2 web sites would you be willing to admit your theory is proven falsified?
I'd like to see your blizzard license first, I had one for my league and I know pay to enter leagues need a different license before they are allowed to operate.
On July 27 2011 11:18 NeSE wrote: PantsB, I'm going to say this one more time, I did not post from StrafedProtoss, this was already explained. As far your entire post, ultimately you are saying Blizzard absolutely would not back this organization so it must be a scam. So, if Blizzard formally announced this tournament throughout the StarCraft 2 web sites would you be willing to admit your theory is proven falsified?
I'd like to see your blizzard license first, I had one for my league and I know pay to enter leagues need a different license before they are allowed to operate.
You are 100% Correct, organizers who have an entry fee require a completely different licensing agreement. We have the contract required to host an entry fee based tournament with Blizzard Entertainment. We actually posted a portion of that contract on this thread, which clearly was not such a great idea. We will not be posting our contract with Blizzard Entertainment or any other contract for that matter now, or ever. As we have previously stated, you will see formal announcements throughout Blizzard's StarCraft II web sites by next week. We apologize for any convenience but posting our contract is simply not a possibility.
On July 27 2011 11:18 NeSE wrote: PantsB, I'm going to say this one more time, I did not post from StrafedProtoss, this was already explained. As far your entire post, ultimately you are saying Blizzard absolutely would not back this organization so it must be a scam. So, if Blizzard formally announced this tournament throughout the StarCraft 2 web sites would you be willing to admit your theory is proven falsified?
Yes. If Blizzard made a blog post like they have for NASL, IEM, Blizzcon or GSL about the Open Tourney it would be believable. Forum posts don't count. Until we see it on
On July 27 2011 04:42 PantsB wrote: This is clearly a scam, I hope no one falls for it. The idea that the simple math that anyone with a modicum of business or mathematical knowledge could is far more complex that what was being done "in the office" of a company promising tens of thousands of dollars in payouts and has the backing of Blizzard is ludicrous.
Hell, the idea that some 25 year old night club employee with no experience in e-sports is going to get that backing in the first place is highly questionable. Following that up with astro-turf posters like StrafedProtoss http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2842434679 does not build trust.
Using the post from the website Round 1- $20 Round 2- $40 Round 3- $80 Round 4- $160 Round 5- $320 Round 6- $640 Round 7 (Round Robin)- $1,280
In order to have enough people to have a 6 round competition in which 1 out of 4 people advance each round you need
4 * 4 * 4 * 4 * 4 * 4 or 4^6 or 4096 players. Total intake from this would be $81920
So either one does not have enough players to actually have a competition of this length or organizers will be pocketing approximately 50% of the entry fees and the "expected return" for entering this competition for the average competitor is ~.5 (equivalent of flipping a coin). This of course does not include disqualifications which would increase how much $ is pocketed.
However, this language is also modified so that the above is contradicted.
At 50 players or teams we will transition from a multiple bracket system into a round robin setting. Then, those 50 players or teams will compete day by day in scheduled, arranged matches for a two week time period.
Which is it? The prize pool says round 7 is when this is "scheduled" to happen. This would then require 204800 entries or something like 15-20% of all NA SC2 players in season 2. Laughable. And that's before we see that if this was actually achieved, the total income would be just under $4.1 million
And any organizer able to secure funding would know its laughable.
Let's say this was 4 times as successful as NASL Open Season 1 ($10 buy in) which drew <256 players (call it an even 1024). One in 21 would make the final 50 and log4 12 is just over 2. 50 times 640 = 32000, or $12K more than income. Total losses would be ~$20K.
Or far more likely, no one would actually get paid because this is a scam. Huge money promises, vague assurances of being on the up and up, questionable background of the only legal entity associated with the website and a business model that makes no sense = run.
This should be edited in the OP as a proper way to inquire legitimacy. Good work.
Great Point, we are most likely going to re-do the OP and put that up as a sponsor thread alone, after the Blizzard announcements are live. It has been made pretty clear throughout this thread what was Unclear, so we will make the necessary changes.
On July 28 2011 02:44 NeSE wrote: Great Point, we are most likely going to re-do the OP and put that up as a sponsor thread alone, after the Blizzard announcements are live. It has been made pretty clear throughout this thread what was Unclear, so we will make the necessary changes.
And what about the video you've said you would do, presenting yourself and your organisation?
On July 25 2011 20:01 TRgiovanni wrote: Final thing, did I read correctly when it said that the final 50 players of every event would have to play in a round fucking robin? That means you would have to play 49 players in 2 weeks? So best case scenario would be 3 to 4 matches per player a day. And hopefully you would make it at least a bo3 which is a huge investment time wise for an amateur player.
It'd be 49(49+1)/2=1225 matches. If they're bo3, then that'd be between 2450 and 3675 games. Assuming everyone's got a 50% chance to win every game, it'd be an average of 218.75 games per day... unless it's largely self-run in a similar way to the TL Open, it seems rather lofty.
On July 28 2011 03:43 SMD wrote: Any update on this tournmet? whether its legit or not? Or is everyone waiting for August first, or an official blizzard announcement?
It's probably 50/50 at the moment. Half the people are waiting for the announcement and the other half already have their minds made up. I personally am waiting for the announcement and the video he intends to post introducing himself.
On July 28 2011 02:57 Jetaap wrote: And what about the video you've said you would do, presenting yourself and your organisation?
Not only are we putting that video together, we are also working on another video as well. The public has clearly displayed their open disapproval of the trailer we put together for the coming soon page so we are working towards a new video. We were short-minded in our publishing of the first trailer and Team Liquid announcement and we promise not to make this mistake ever again. We are putting a good deal of time and effort into the production of these videos and we hope these will earn your approvals. I do not have an exact date I can provide you with regarding the publication of these videos because we have incorporated some third party involvement. I can, however, promise these videos will be published before the end of August.
You have to remember, as a business, we currently are sponsoring a qualifier event with Z33K.com, an invitational event with ItsGoSu eSports and a qualifier event with ItsGoSu eSports. We also are making large additions to the NeSE event based on feedback such as: loser's brackets for every round, monthly tournament concept competitions, Team PerfeXion a sponsored team all players can sign up for which includes a full web site with many features, and a complete re-designing of the NeSE Main web site because of the issues we are having with showing we plan to incorporate more games in the future. Most importantly, we are putting an extended amount of time and effort into everything to ensure all items we publish are of the utmost quality.
As time continues to go by we will continue to respond to the community and avert our attention to the areas You deem necessary. Again, not to be redundant, but we really do appreciate all of your feedback because we can only evolve based on that feedback.
Well they paid out to those other tournaments, and the website/profile system obviously took a lot of work. idk how many of you did the guest registration, but its very well put together. I don't see anything to lose by registering as a guest until the Blizzard announcement shows up.
I have the best reason why this is for sure not legit:
Blizzard requires that any tournament that has a prize pool over $5000 gives 50% to Blizzard. If this tournament does what it says it will, I can see the total prize pool way past $5000
On August 02 2011 07:42 -Jambi- wrote: ...And if I remember correctly sixjaxDDE won that $250 z33k nese tournament, has he even received his money yet?...
On August 02 2011 08:05 Dodgin wrote: So either ItsGosu is in on this or they were used. I'm sure that 250 dollars was made back tenfold or more in sign ups.
tbh I don't know if they really made the money back. I mean this "tournament" seems so shady exactly how many people would be willing to pay to sign up for it?
Even if it wasn't a scam and blizzard announced it the math has already been done. It's a typical money making scheme that grants huge profit margins to the organizer but only if a large amount of people sign up which I don't think will happen.
On July 22 2011 09:28 NeSE wrote: We hope to see more feedback from all of you when the site is fully launched and announced throughout Blizzard on August 1st..
No announcement yet and it's been over a day. Care to explain?
Not even sure why this has stayed open when the tournament format itself has proven to be a money making scheme, it was such a blatant scam, who expected a different outcome?
It is not our intention to appear silent, we made a post on our Facebook page last night, the situation is unfortunate but out of our hands. The Blizzard announcements will be made shortly. A Blizzard representative was going to contact Team Liquid to have them post on Blizzard's behalf in this thread, but that is a lot of work with no real purpose. The announcements will go out, again this is not an issue the NeSE is responsible for. Blizzard has a lot going on and this is just how the chips fell in this situation. We assure you the posts will be made, the only reason I have not been replying to everyone's post here is because we feel there is no point until Blizzard makes an announcement. It is clear some of you are legitimately looking forward to this though and for those of you that are, this post is for you.
On August 03 2011 02:42 NeSE wrote: It is not our intention to appear silent, we made a post on our Facebook page last night, the situation is unfortunate but out of our hands. The Blizzard announcements will be made shortly. A Blizzard representative was going to contact Team Liquid to have them post on Blizzard's behalf in this thread, but that is a lot of work with no real purpose. The announcements will go out, again this is not an issue the NeSE is responsible for. Blizzard has a lot going on and this is just how the chips fell in this situation. We assure you the posts will be made, the only reason I have not been replying to everyone's post here is because we feel there is no point until Blizzard makes an announcement. It is clear some of you are legitimately looking forward to this though and for those of you that are, this post is for you.
Are they're updates on how many people have signed up so far? how many 1v1/2v2 teams as well?
Just curious to see how many players are signed up, or actually waiting to hear from blizzard.
Also, have someone from blizzard posting here won't get people off your back. It will have to be somewhere on the official blizzard website, or people just simply believe it, its too easy to create new accounts.
On August 03 2011 02:42 NeSE wrote: It is not our intention to appear silent, we made a post on our Facebook page last night, the situation is unfortunate but out of our hands. The Blizzard announcements will be made shortly. A Blizzard representative was going to contact Team Liquid to have them post on Blizzard's behalf in this thread, but that is a lot of work with no real purpose. The announcements will go out, again this is not an issue the NeSE is responsible for. Blizzard has a lot going on and this is just how the chips fell in this situation. We assure you the posts will be made, the only reason I have not been replying to everyone's post here is because we feel there is no point until Blizzard makes an announcement. It is clear some of you are legitimately looking forward to this though and for those of you that are, this post is for you.
Thank you.
Believe it when we see it..
Don't even bother; this guy is constantly posting about how stuff is "in the works" and "coming" and how we just need to wait; I'm done following this thread. Even if it's not a scam, NeSE so clearly lacks the basic organizational competence to run a tournament of this scale that it's mind-boggling.
What a professional tournament organizer who was in the right would do is:
post an OP with all the relevant information, including map pool, etc, from the start
if there was any missing information, update the op
include a spoiler in the op full of FAQs and address concerns there
not get into long, protracted arguments on the thread, but provide evidence, again in the OP
generally handle things in a more professional and organized manner.
In the unlikely event NeSE is legit, I hope you take the time to really think through how you interact with the sc2 community-- gamers and esports fan are the lifeblood of tournaments, and you need a good relationship with both to get viewerships, sponsorships, and a sustainable business model.
We apologize for the delay, we have added a feature where everyone can register as a guest on the web site to check out the features. www.ne-se.com/sc2/home -- just click register now and select guest, as always we appreciate feedback. We hope to have a link to a Blizzard announcement before the day's end.
It took me three tries to muster up the motive to stay on that site for longer than five seconds with that annoying pop up video tutorial. It seems just plastered on the page and is extremely unprofessional. I know this is a thread about your possible upcoming tournament, but the site is absolutely atrocious. Please use less fonts per page! The graphics also all seem to be taken straight from SC2.. Not sure of the legality there.
Also.. wow.. registration rules that REALLY bother me:
All players must register under their authentic Battle.net account E-Mail address.
I get that you want to be able to report people.. but you'll have character codes and usernames.. If anyone within your organization (or outside for that matter) gets any of the combinations of the email addresses with people's passwords, anyone who uses a password similar on your site to their battle.net account immediately has their account's security in jeopardy.
EDIT:
The National eSports Event is a licensed tournament organizer for Blizzard Entertainment's Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and no NeSE employee will ever contact you and ask for any private Battle.net account information under any circumstance.
Lol.. but you already have..
In any case: I'm interested to see whether or not this is legit.
Following my post, NeSE sent me a series of insulting PMs, and he continually fails to deliver, or even update the original post with new information. Until I see otherwise, we must be noodlin' cause this smells fishy, gentlemen.
On August 03 2011 11:53 Blazinghand wrote: Following my post, NeSE sent me a series of insulting PMs, and he continually fails to deliver, or even update the original post with new information. Until I see otherwise, we must be noodlin' cause this smells fishy, gentlemen.
Id enjoy seeing the PM's you got, not for proof, just for entertainment value
On August 03 2011 11:53 Blazinghand wrote: Following my post, NeSE sent me a series of insulting PMs, and he continually fails to deliver, or even update the original post with new information. Until I see otherwise, we must be noodlin' cause this smells fishy, gentlemen.
Id enjoy seeing the PM's you got, not for proof, just for entertainment value
Original Message From NeSE: I suppose you believe you are an intelligent individual, based on your in-depth breakdown of the faults of our organization. Here's a question for you; when have you ever seen a company of any kind release a product by telling every single square bit of information about it? What would be left to talk about? 300 plus posts 5,000 plus views on this thread. We thank you dearly for your concern in our ability to effectively market a product. Please note the NeSE organization has spent no money on advertising and only on qualifier events and other tournaments, due to the fact we are ONLY here to bring that entertainment to the public. I look forward to speaking with you again.
Original Message From Blazinghand: Update the OP in the thread, make it presentable, please be professional, get a real blizz support post, etc. Take all people's criticisms and put them into a big "FAQ" list and address them, add it to the OP.
Original Message From NeSE: I just so happened to find your post both intelligible, informational and most importantly, emotional. I'm curious if you have ever run a tournament in the past or an eSports event of some kind.
Original Message From Blazinghand: No, I have not. This is common sense, please apply it.
Original Message From NeSE: I have a feeling you carry a heavy sense of stubbornness with you. A shame really, you appear to be someone who could be a viable asset.
Original Message From Blazinghand: Heh, I was gonna say the same about you. Good luck with your "tournament. Make sure to update your thread with the blizz announcement when you get the chance.
Original Message From NeSE: We will be sure to follow your instructions to the letter.
On August 03 2011 11:53 Blazinghand wrote: Following my post, NeSE sent me a series of insulting PMs, and he continually fails to deliver, or even update the original post with new information. Until I see otherwise, we must be noodlin' cause this smells fishy, gentlemen.
Id enjoy seeing the PM's you got, not for proof, just for entertainment value
Oh, gladly.
HAHAAHAHAHA you are pretty soft if you call insults. I guess no one has ever trolled u b4.
I think me and a lot of other people reading this are at the point where we're not going to be convinced until we have a Blizzard Representative make an announcement about it.
Unfortunately, first impressions are often lasting impressions. NASL has done a pretty good job with their organization (especially more lately), but a poor first impression has generated a legion of NASL haters that probably aren't going to go away for a long time, regardless of how well the NASL performs as an organization. I hope NeSE can avoid the same pitfall.
Anyway, I do hope this whole thing is legitimate. I certainly want it to be, though to be frank, it sounds like its goals may be too ambitious to be realistically attainable in the near future, assuming that it is legitimate.
On August 03 2011 02:42 NeSE wrote: It is not our intention to appear silent, we made a post on our Facebook page last night, the situation is unfortunate but out of our hands. The Blizzard announcements will be made shortly. A Blizzard representative was going to contact Team Liquid to have them post on Blizzard's behalf in this thread, but that is a lot of work with no real purpose. The announcements will go out, again this is not an issue the NeSE is responsible for. Blizzard has a lot going on and this is just how the chips fell in this situation. We assure you the posts will be made, the only reason I have not been replying to everyone's post here is because we feel there is no point until Blizzard makes an announcement. It is clear some of you are legitimately looking forward to this though and for those of you that are, this post is for you.
Thank you.
Believe it when we see it..
Don't even bother; this guy is constantly posting about how stuff is "in the works" and "coming" and how we just need to wait; I'm done following this thread. Even if it's not a scam, NeSE so clearly lacks the basic organizational competence to run a tournament of this scale that it's mind-boggling.
What a professional tournament organizer who was in the right would do is:
post an OP with all the relevant information, including map pool, etc, from the start
if there was any missing information, update the op
include a spoiler in the op full of FAQs and address concerns there
not get into long, protracted arguments on the thread, but provide evidence, again in the OP
generally handle things in a more professional and organized manner.
In the unlikely event NeSE is legit, I hope you take the time to really think through how you interact with the sc2 community-- gamers and esports fan are the lifeblood of tournaments, and you need a good relationship with both to get viewerships, sponsorships, and a sustainable business model.
Peace.
i'm with this guy, tbh. kind of over this thread. was amusing for a time.
Anyway, Is this where I advertise a tournament that requires money to enter, that has fucking horrible website design, horrible production value, with several sites WITH THE SAME DESIGN. And an attitude from the one of the owners?
Seems like we know our answer guys. This shit's obviously a scam. Too good to be true? It is!
It baffles me why It's GoSu and SKGaming advertises for these guys, I guess money talks for anyone, no matter how horribly these guys are and will kill esports.
On August 04 2011 04:30 Nimla wrote: Anyway, Is this where I advertise a tournament that requires money to enter, that has fucking horrible website design, horrible production value, with several sites WITH THE SAME DESIGN. And an attitude from the one of the owners?
Seems like we know our answer guys. This shit's obviously a scam. Too good to be true? It is!
It baffles me why It's GoSu and SKGaming advertises for these guys, I guess money talks for anyone, no matter how horribly these guys are and will kill esports.
If this tournament were legit and well-run, it would be GREAT for esports. I wouldn't hate on GoSu or SKGaming, they may not have done the same in-depth investigation we did-- and on the surface, this seems legit. Anyone can make a mistake.
On August 04 2011 04:30 Nimla wrote: Anyway, Is this where I advertise a tournament that requires money to enter, that has fucking horrible website design, horrible production value, with several sites WITH THE SAME DESIGN. And an attitude from the one of the owners?
Seems like we know our answer guys. This shit's obviously a scam. Too good to be true? It is!
It baffles me why It's GoSu and SKGaming advertises for these guys, I guess money talks for anyone, no matter how horribly these guys are and will kill esports.
If this tournament were legit and well-run, it would be GREAT for esports. I wouldn't hate on GoSu or SKGaming, they may not have done the same in-depth investigation we did-- and on the surface, this seems legit. Anyone can make a mistake.
There's plenty of GREAT Things going for esports, from reading previous posts, apparently they make a ton of money from registration? Yeahhhhh..
Again we apologize for the delay, the full announcement is scheduled for 5PM PST tomorrow, at which time we will do some things of our own as well. We appreciate your patience throughout this process.
Again we apologize for the delay, the full announcement is scheduled for 5PM PST tomorrow, at which time we will do some things of our own as well. We appreciate your patience throughout this process.
Honestly, the only reason it blew out of proportion is because the site looks so bad.
Annoying chick screaming about the tournament, links that don't work, dragons breathing fire in the background. I mean, if you want people's money, you have to give them quality, I'm not seeing it in the site, so why would anyone expect to see it in the tournament.
Let me summarise (paraphrasing from their site): WINNERS should
[*] wait for 15 business days (= 3 weeks) [*] for a check [*] and if it doesn't arrive in time, they should "contact NE-SE" asap (no specific contact information is given, but under 'contact' there is a 'legal department' email address...)
How about this - I participate in your tournament, and you give *me* 15 business days to send you a check worth $20 for the registration fee. In the event you don't get the check, you should send me a PM on TL asap to resolve the issue. Sounds fair?
On August 04 2011 13:22 garlicface wrote: Keeping an eye on this. Not gonna lie though, it's still way too suspicious. I'm already feeling sorry for anyone who shelled out 20 bucks.
He already got Blizz to confirm they are a real tournament a few posts before yours.
On August 04 2011 04:30 Nimla wrote: Anyway, Is this where I advertise a tournament that requires money to enter, that has fucking horrible website design, horrible production value, with several sites WITH THE SAME DESIGN. And an attitude from the one of the owners?
Seems like we know our answer guys. This shit's obviously a scam. Too good to be true? It is!
It baffles me why It's GoSu and SKGaming advertises for these guys, I guess money talks for anyone, no matter how horribly these guys are and will kill esports.
If this tournament were legit and well-run, it would be GREAT for esports. I wouldn't hate on GoSu or SKGaming, they may not have done the same in-depth investigation we did-- and on the surface, this seems legit. Anyone can make a mistake.
There's plenty of GREAT Things going for esports, from reading previous posts, apparently they make a ton of money from registration? Yeahhhhh..
Considering they're putting on an entire live event, I imagine they would have to make a few bucks.
On August 04 2011 13:01 Dagobert wrote: Let me summarise (paraphrasing from their site): WINNERS should
[*] wait for 15 business days (= 3 weeks) [*] for a check [*] and if it doesn't arrive in time, they should "contact NE-SE" asap (no specific contact information is given, but under 'contact' there is a 'legal department' email address...)
How about this - I participate in your tournament, and you give *me* 15 business days to send you a check worth $20 for the registration fee. In the event you don't get the check, you should send me a PM on TL asap to resolve the issue. Sounds fair?
Come on man, 3 weeks to pay out has to be way above average for ESPORTS events. ESL takes like a whole year to pay out sometimes. =\
I'm still not going to shell out $20 for an online tournament but I hope this goes well for you guys at NeSE (and for the players too) now that Blizzard has made their announcement.
Awesome, I'm glad Blizz could verify the legitimacy.
I'm not sure I'd quite be willing to shell out $20 for the tournament given that the chances of me making that money back are pretty slim. I think Diamond+ might be more willing though. This looks like it could be pretty cool. I'm glad someone is trying a payout structure like this.
On August 04 2011 04:30 Nimla wrote: Anyway, Is this where I advertise a tournament that requires money to enter, that has fucking horrible website design, horrible production value, with several sites WITH THE SAME DESIGN. And an attitude from the one of the owners?
Seems like we know our answer guys. This shit's obviously a scam. Too good to be true? It is!
It baffles me why It's GoSu and SKGaming advertises for these guys, I guess money talks for anyone, no matter how horribly these guys are and will kill esports.
If this tournament were legit and well-run, it would be GREAT for esports. I wouldn't hate on GoSu or SKGaming, they may not have done the same in-depth investigation we did-- and on the surface, this seems legit. Anyone can make a mistake.
Wow some pretty sad, people out there like "Private eye Blazinghand" here sure did alot of digging. well anyway now all the trolls trying to act like they know better than everyone else at least get proven wrong.
On August 04 2011 04:30 Nimla wrote: Anyway, Is this where I advertise a tournament that requires money to enter, that has fucking horrible website design, horrible production value, with several sites WITH THE SAME DESIGN. And an attitude from the one of the owners?
Seems like we know our answer guys. This shit's obviously a scam. Too good to be true? It is!
It baffles me why It's GoSu and SKGaming advertises for these guys, I guess money talks for anyone, no matter how horribly these guys are and will kill esports.
If this tournament were legit and well-run, it would be GREAT for esports. I wouldn't hate on GoSu or SKGaming, they may not have done the same in-depth investigation we did-- and on the surface, this seems legit. Anyone can make a mistake.
Wow some pretty sad, people out there like "Private eye Blazinghand" here sure did alot of digging. well anyway now all the trolls trying to act like they know better than everyone else at least get proven wrong.
Indeed. How did you know I was a private infestigator? I don't remember mentioning my profession as part of my discussion of your tournament... that's very sharp of you.
In any case, my points about how poorly-organized this tournament is, as well as the usual feedback about its somewhat fiscally inept PR team, stand unrefuted; assuming everything here is legit, it's being run by people who have no business handling that amount of money, or running an e-sports tournament. I hope they get some consultants more familiar with the industry than themselves who can make this into a better event.
Spreading the event out over the course of a year, and the way the payouts are structured, as well as previous misgivings regarding the refunds policy and disbursement of winnings have not been addressed, and as of the writing of this post, the OP has not been updated to reflect new information. Any new people coming to this thread will have to dig through pages upon pages of unprofessional argument from the organizer to find any information.
Please update the OP at your earliest convenience to contain useful information.
On July 27 2011 11:18 NeSE wrote: PantsB, I'm going to say this one more time, I did not post from StrafedProtoss, this was already explained. As far your entire post, ultimately you are saying Blizzard absolutely would not back this organization so it must be a scam. So, if Blizzard formally announced this tournament throughout the StarCraft 2 web sites would you be willing to admit your theory is proven falsified?
Yes. If Blizzard made a blog post like they have for NASL, IEM, Blizzcon or GSL about the Open Tourney it would be believable. Forum posts don't count. Until we see it on
Depends on how you define legit. There is always going to speculation to the contrary.
I'm not sure what their target player is tbh. I'm decently high in masters and I'd never enter this even if it was 100% legit. I don't think the structure is fair to players or particularly interesting. But that's my opinion.
There's just something that bothers me about paying to play an online tournament. I'd happily pay to play at MLG. It's a lan and it's about the experience not about winning. The main issue is I don't play sc to make money, I'm not a pro. So the allure of doubling my money or w/e is not there. Plus I used to play a ton of online poker before it was fubar'd and I'd have to put in significantly more effort to make significantly less money this way. The motivation just isn't there. Look at the NASL qualifiers. Those had insane player pools and a lower buy in.
The way the original thread was presented just leads me to believe that this was put together in a hurry by someone who isn't quite familiar with starcraft be it in game or just the status quo in general. (See original map pool) I get that they want to make money, and that's cool, but I think there are better ways to do it. (See IPL)
I mean I don't hope it fails, but I'm not gonna just "support e-sports" blindly.
tl:dr
I play sc for fun, not to make money. TL Open is more my pace. Getting 4-5 rounds in is way more thrilling than making $20.
On August 06 2011 03:33 crojar wrote: Depends on how you define legit. There is always going to speculation to the contrary.
I'm not sure what their target player is tbh. I'm decently high in masters and I'd never enter this even if it was 100% legit. I don't think the structure is fair to players or particularly interesting. But that's my opinion.
There's just something that bothers me about paying to play an online tournament. I'd happily pay to play at MLG. It's a lan and it's about the experience not about winning. The main issue is I don't play sc to make money, I'm not a pro. So the allure of doubling my money or w/e is not there. Plus I used to play a ton of online poker before it was fubar'd and I'd have to put in significantly more effort to make significantly less money this way. The motivation just isn't there. Look at the NASL qualifiers. Those had insane player pools and a lower buy in.
The way the original thread was presented just leads me to believe that this was put together in a hurry by someone who isn't quite familiar with starcraft be it in game or just the status quo in general. (See original map pool) I get that they want to make money, and that's cool, but I think there are better ways to do it. (See IPL)
I mean I don't hope it fails, but I'm not gonna just "support e-sports" blindly.
tl:dr
I play sc for fun, not to make money. TL Open is more my pace. Getting 4-5 rounds in is way more thrilling than making $20.
Crojar,
Let me begin by saying that you are 100% spot on and more people should be about the experience than making money for sure! Unfortunately, in order for you to obtain an experience in today's economy you have to be able to support yourself. In order to get to a point where we can offer constant live competitions that are more populated, high quality, closer to your home and what you would refer to as a Stadium.
There are steps in this process but the goal is to provide EVERYONE with an opportunity to achieve that exact experience you are referring to. The first step of which is to show the rest of the world, and especially the US public, that we are very serious, that this sport is a very serious one and that those of us who are not the "greatest players" are the greatest fans a sport can have. You being a high masters player stand a great opportunity not to only earn cash prizes in this event, but to get yourself on the map. This is a big event with a pretty good prize pool at the Finals and if you can compete here, then you know its time to start working a little harder because you have a real shot.
The NE-SE is not here to make money and that is not our goal with this event, we have gone through a 17 month process preparing for this so we can continue for quite some time regardless of our profit margin. We are trying to be a part of the building process that esports has within it's grasp to provide everyone with the atmosphere and environment to ensue that incredible experience.
I feel slightly vindicated Good to know that this is confirmed legit now. Still not sure whether I'll sign up just because 20 bucks is still kinda big for me right now :/ but best of luck to you NeSE
While I like the idea of there being a serious 2v2 tournament...I worry that the $20 entry will dull it. I don't know if there are enough serious 2v2 players to have a significant number of real good 2v2 players, and with such a high entry I ave my doubts when it comes to people signing up for it.
Seriously...I wonder if there would be even over 20 that sign up for the 2v2 with a $20 entry fee.
I think it would be improved if the 2v2 had either a lower/free entry with a reduced prize pool as opposed to the current system. (Although if you want to keep the prize pool high, that would be cool)
On August 06 2011 03:33 crojar wrote: Depends on how you define legit. There is always going to speculation to the contrary.
I'm not sure what their target player is tbh. I'm decently high in masters and I'd never enter this even if it was 100% legit. I don't think the structure is fair to players or particularly interesting. But that's my opinion.
There's just something that bothers me about paying to play an online tournament. I'd happily pay to play at MLG. It's a lan and it's about the experience not about winning. The main issue is I don't play sc to make money, I'm not a pro. So the allure of doubling my money or w/e is not there. Plus I used to play a ton of online poker before it was fubar'd and I'd have to put in significantly more effort to make significantly less money this way. The motivation just isn't there. Look at the NASL qualifiers. Those had insane player pools and a lower buy in.
The way the original thread was presented just leads me to believe that this was put together in a hurry by someone who isn't quite familiar with starcraft be it in game or just the status quo in general. (See original map pool) I get that they want to make money, and that's cool, but I think there are better ways to do it. (See IPL)
I mean I don't hope it fails, but I'm not gonna just "support e-sports" blindly.
tl:dr
I play sc for fun, not to make money. TL Open is more my pace. Getting 4-5 rounds in is way more thrilling than making $20.
Crojar,
Let me begin by saying that you are 100% spot on and more people should be about the experience than making money for sure! Unfortunately, in order for you to obtain an experience in today's economy you have to be able to support yourself. In order to get to a point where we can offer constant live competitions that are more populated, high quality, closer to your home and what you would refer to as a Stadium.
There are steps in this process but the goal is to provide EVERYONE with an opportunity to achieve that exact experience you are referring to. The first step of which is to show the rest of the world, and especially the US public, that we are very serious, that this sport is a very serious one and that those of us who are not the "greatest players" are the greatest fans a sport can have. You being a high masters player stand a great opportunity not to only earn cash prizes in this event, but to get yourself on the map. This is a big event with a pretty good prize pool at the Finals and if you can compete here, then you know its time to start working a little harder because you have a real shot.
The NE-SE is not here to make money and that is not our goal with this event, we have gone through a 17 month process preparing for this so we can continue for quite some time regardless of our profit margin. We are trying to be a part of the building process that esports has within it's grasp to provide everyone with the atmosphere and environment to ensue that incredible experience.
i actually like the structure you've created here. Im personally fine with paying out a bit of money for a decent chance at making some back, it seems cool.
The map pool though man...Please...don't do that to us x.x
On August 06 2011 04:36 KingGreasy wrote: A couple weeks of bashing and the NeSE guy continues to persist and respond to the community. That deserves respect.
So True.
I don't play ladder games enough to care to enter into a tournament, but GL with this and I hope all goes well. Also I'm pumped you guys are using some MoTM maps in your pool, spices some things up.
On August 06 2011 05:19 Saishuuheiki wrote: While I like the idea of there being a serious 2v2 tournament...I worry that the $20 entry will dull it. I don't know if there are enough serious 2v2 players to have a significant number of real good 2v2 players, and with such a high entry I ave my doubts when it comes to people signing up for it.
Seriously...I wonder if there would be even over 20 that sign up for the 2v2 with a $20 entry fee.
I think it would be improved if the 2v2 had either a lower/free entry with a reduced prize pool as opposed to the current system. (Although if you want to keep the prize pool high, that would be cool)
Just to reassure you we actually do have over 20 registrations for 2v2 right now and we are hoping more do elect to participate. Also, we did everything we could with the 2v2 to make it even more appealing by splitting the entry fee between the teammates. It takes away from the prize pool a bit but, as I've said before, the more people that can be involved the better especially regarding 2v2 and its current stand point in competitive SC2 eSports. Ultimately the best case scenario is no entry fee at all and we are continuing to work forward towards that goal. Register as a Guest on the NE-SE SC2 site and that will keep you updated regarding the status of things like that.
Thank you everyone for your support, I speak on behalf of everyone at NE-SE when I say it is greatly appreciated. A great deal of time, effort and finances have gone into this project and our sole purpose is providing to gamers just like yourselves. We have a lot of cool updates and additions in store so definitely stay tuned, some re-designs and new features will be published in upcoming weeks. You will also be able to find a live link to all NE-SE Sponsored or Hosted streams on the main page of www.ne-se.com. So, if you are interested in viewing some broadcasts check the site on August 6th, 10th and 11th.
On August 06 2011 14:43 kedinik wrote: I'm pretty sure a Blizzard post just means they paid a licensing fee to Blizzard, not that Blizzard investigated their finances -_-
In order to host a StarCraft II tournament or any tournament involving a Blizzard Entertainment game that features an entry fee requires a specific type of contract. It is not a regular licensing agreement that you can acquire to host an open even with 1-3 prize amounts with no entry fee. One of the steps of this specific agreement with Blizzard Entertainment is Proof of Funds.
On August 07 2011 05:02 kevinmon wrote: I'm not paying $20 to enter a tournament that I've never heard of. And the website looks like crap, it tries too hard to look like the in-game menus.
What do you mean you've never heard of. I am looking forward to the NESE and am really excited for it.
Very interesting. The website is well made despite its relative opacity. The map pool is sweet.
I cannot pay $20 to enter a tournament, however (especially online). It goes against my morals. Either invite players, have a paid entry LAN, or allow free entry. Even with restrictions (say, on league) it would be fine as long as there is no monetary cost to enter the tournament.
I look forward to the games ahead in the NeSE but not as a participant.
On August 07 2011 13:21 Komentaja wrote: Very interesting. The website is well made despite its relative opacity. The map pool is sweet.
I cannot pay $20 to enter a tournament, however (especially online). It goes against my morals. Either invite players, have a paid entry LAN, or allow free entry. Even with restrictions (say, on league) it would be fine as long as there is no monetary cost to enter the tournament.
I look forward to the games ahead in the NeSE but not as a participant.
We are working towards eliminating the entry fee but it will take time and great support from the community to do so.
My question is, you guys must have a league license to run this. When reading through it, you see that this tournament violates the TOA Tournament Agreement as shown here;
I'm pretty sure it has died in the same fashion it did back when it was announced under another name around beta/early retail. They started taking registration money and then everything just kind of coincidentally fizzles out.
The plan was for them to go completely free to enter by mid October but you could 'reserve' a spot by continuing to pay until that point, when they would refund all the money and open up completely free registration, and the tournament would start early 2012. Of course their transition to becoming free has yet to happen. If anyone has paid maybe they can let us know if they ever got a refund or if they have kept you more informed than the general public.
I guess the most die hard NESE fans can continue holding out hope but it's basically been 1.5 years of taking registration money off and on and failing to actually accomplish a single thing
On November 25 2011 01:30 64t0 wrote: About this... I signed up for this tournament, but never got the $20 refund they announced... What did you guys do about it?
Looks like everyone saying " its a scam " was right then.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.ne-se.com/banner/nese-banner6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jlVlC.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.ne-se.com/banner/nese-banner4.jpg)
(what happened to that one btw? ^^).
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ESSO2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/F9qbw.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7jPci.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CUObS.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/o4JmV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5969/nese.jpg)
