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Stay positive, be happy and enjoy the event. Caster bashing and player bashing? Too much whining? Uh-oh! |
On August 04 2011 20:50 BackSideAttack wrote:
The gap is a lot bigger now than it was during beta and during the Open GSL seasons. The gap has been increasing as better players started switching over, and current players started developing new builds and new ways to utilize their mechanics. The results of the latest MLG prove this point.
No Foreigner WITHOUT Korean training can compete with the Koreans right now other than maybe Naniwa. Thorzain can't be losing to players like TSL_Revival in a lag-filled online tournament and still expect to be considered on par. Even with Naniwa, he's been 50/50 with players like Moon, who is neither in Code A nor focusing on SC2 full time.
Obviously
Of course the gap is bigger than it was during Beta when no one knew how to play, and the Open GSL seasons when Koreans were still cheesing almost every game. Back then, there was virtually no gap.
What's your REAL point?
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Russian Federation949 Posts
On August 04 2011 20:52 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:49 Pirat6662001 wrote:
Too bad Dimaga is under terrible management and didnt get into NASL or other big leagues Dimaga didn't get into NASL because he submitted his video too late. Not sure whether it was his fault or his management's fault.
On Russian site it was said that Dimaga's manager didnt find out about deadline until it was too late.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
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On August 04 2011 20:50 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:36 Shirohige wrote:On August 04 2011 20:30 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 04 2011 20:10 Pirat6662001 wrote:On August 04 2011 20:05 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 04 2011 19:43 bgx wrote:On August 04 2011 19:25 BackSideAttack wrote:On August 04 2011 19:16 bgx wrote:On August 04 2011 19:08 Jakkerr wrote:On August 04 2011 19:04 hewley wrote:
[quote]
yeah why bother practicing, why can't they just hand us our checks and prizes
see what I did there... Ur missing the point though, I don't say they should do that at all. But at the moment it just feels like people from a division lower are competing vs people they are never gonna beat in this situation anyway, mostly because for 90% of those people it's simply not possible to practice 10-12 hours a day since they need to make a living too. I don't think the foreign scene will get any better from getting stomped by koreans on every occasion. oh stop it for all of them its a job, they still get paid, they still win online cups, if they want to get bigger piece of pie they need to step up their game and win vs decent opponents, the difference is NOT that big, and top foreigners already proved it by taking games/series, its just their dedication limiting them, its funny because it shouldnt be the case when it is their freaking job to be the best its not about their mood to compete with koreans if we isolate foreigner tournaments from Korea the difference will be even bigger and every international tournament gonna get stomped (see BW) The mentality that the difference is not that big was valid during Beta and has slowly been disproved as time goes on. After MLG just had top 6 Koreans and a number 7 Korean trained foreigner, you really can't say the gap isn't THAT big. Also if you look at a lot of the games that foreigners took off of Koreans at recent tournaments, they are mostly cause of luck. For example: 1. Sjow took a game off of July by transitioning to dual port banshee after getting banneling busted and taking heavy damage 2. Losira losing a game to Incontrol playing with only a mouse. 3. MMA losing a game to Drewbie when it was lagging really hard. And if you want to take into consideration online play, Koreans still roll foreigners WITH lag. The players you mentioned arent even the top3 in their own countries, of course it were flukes, i meant that there are players much better who are underperforming. What we want now is example of foreigners beating koreans. Isolation means insta-defeat. At least put up a fight. Of course you can see the results and see that Koreans are far cry above foreigners but when you see the games, its not that scary as you portray. I only mentioned those examples because they were some of the few times foreigners took games off of the Koreans. In particular, I used the prior examples because results aren't everything; even though the foreigners won the game, it was due to outside factors, or luck. If you only want to look at Top 3 players, then the reality becomes even more grim. 1. Losira and MMA both 2-0 Naniwa 2. Boxer 2-0s Idra, Zenio 4-0 against Idra. 3. MVP 2-0s Select 4. Ret loses to MMA 2-0 5. KiwiKaki losing to Ganzi 2-0 If Top Foreigners can't even beat mediocre Koreans like Boxer, Ganzi, Zenio, or even Moon, how can you say the gap isn't huge. The closest thing to a competitive game you have is Thorzain vs MC (4-2 in favor of MC) and ever since after MLG Columbus, Thorzain hasn't accomplished anything. White-Ra has been doing quite well vs mc. lost 4-3 in dreamhack for example Thats not a recent result, the gap is a lot bigger now. Also Whitera got quite lucky against MC, like managing to sneak that probe into MC's base in front of his army. Dude, what are you trying to argue here? "the gap is a lot bigger now"? What does that even mean? Be a little more specific. It all depends on the foreigners you are talking about, there a huge differences in foreigners. Using them all under one term is just wrong and unfair. If you don't recognize this, you have a problem. There are definetly some foreigners who can keep up with the koreans, but most can not, they are still the exception. That much should be obvious for everyone and there are good examples for that. What more is there to discuss? The gap is a lot bigger now than it was during beta and during the Open GSL seasons. The gap has been increasing as better players started switching over, and current players started developing new builds and new ways to utilize their mechanics. The results of the latest MLG prove this point. No Foreigner WITHOUT Korean training can compete with the Koreans right now other than maybe Naniwa. Thorzain can't be losing to players like TSL_Revival in a lag-filled online tournament and still expect to be considered on par. Even with Naniwa, he's been 50/50 with players like Moon, who is neither in Code A nor focusing on SC2 full time. Obviously
Ok, you obviously didn't get my point. The gap is different for every foreigner. It's pretty small for foreigners like naniwa and sen for example. But it is quite big for some others. Don't generalize so much, it's really annoying.
And there are many examples of some foreigners keeping up with some koreans. There is no denying. You can't make excuses for everything, because you never know for sure, what the real reason behind the lost game was.
Still, I agree that most koreans ahead and that is what we see at tournaments like MLG.
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WOW, SEN is unbelievably good......
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On August 04 2011 20:59 Mioraka wrote:
WOW, SEN is unbelievably good......
Yeah, he's godlike!
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Russian Federation949 Posts
I feel like team Ukraine or team Sweden wouldnt do too bad in GSTL. Other countries are way behind though
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Order of play/Streams order, anyone?
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On August 04 2011 20:53 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:50 BackSideAttack wrote:
The gap is a lot bigger now than it was during beta and during the Open GSL seasons. The gap has been increasing as better players started switching over, and current players started developing new builds and new ways to utilize their mechanics. The results of the latest MLG prove this point.
No Foreigner WITHOUT Korean training can compete with the Koreans right now other than maybe Naniwa. Thorzain can't be losing to players like TSL_Revival in a lag-filled online tournament and still expect to be considered on par. Even with Naniwa, he's been 50/50 with players like Moon, who is neither in Code A nor focusing on SC2 full time.
Obviously
Interesting example given that FXOtgun knocked out TSLRevival 2-0 in the qualifiers yesterday, and qxc all-killed IM. I mean, even though they both have Korean training and I'm a huge fan, I still am not stupid enough to just outright say that Thorzain/Nani couldn't match their feats or surpass them.
K...your statement does nothing to counteract what I had posted. If i'm going to throw in the caveat of "WITHOUT Korean training", then I obviously believe that with Korean training, Foreigners like Naniwa and Thorzain could do well, even better than T-gun and the rest of the FXO guys. But the bottom line is, as of now, Thorzain and Naniwa have not received any of that training, so their skills will remain subpar.
Also, the QXC example is really bad, he beat IM's C-team and lucked out against MVP. I say C-team because Losira, Nestea, MVP, Yonghwa, Yoda, Happy, and Seed are all better players than Horror, Dreamer, and BBi. If you don't believe that QXC lucked out against MVP, then answer this- would you bet your house in Vegas on QXC in a bo7 against MVP?
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On August 04 2011 20:55 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 20:50 BackSideAttack wrote:
The gap is a lot bigger now than it was during beta and during the Open GSL seasons. The gap has been increasing as better players started switching over, and current players started developing new builds and new ways to utilize their mechanics. The results of the latest MLG prove this point.
No Foreigner WITHOUT Korean training can compete with the Koreans right now other than maybe Naniwa. Thorzain can't be losing to players like TSL_Revival in a lag-filled online tournament and still expect to be considered on par. Even with Naniwa, he's been 50/50 with players like Moon, who is neither in Code A nor focusing on SC2 full time.
Obviously
Of course the gap is bigger than it was during Beta when no one knew how to play, and the Open GSL seasons when Koreans were still cheesing almost every game. Back then, there was virtually no gap. What's your REAL point?
"The gap has been increasing as better players started switching over, and current players started developing new builds and new ways to utilize their mechanics. The results of the latest MLG prove this point."
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Impressive mech play by Sarens, ties the series 1-1 against Sen!
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Sen finally drops a game. Looks like he's still having troubles with ZvT.
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O_O The hellions getting iin the base killed Sen, if not for those, the mutas would have done enough damage that SarenS will never be able to catch....
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whoa sarens takes one off sen with mass thor
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Wow, he ripped Sen apart.
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Khaldor is so good at commentating that I enjoy watching him cast in german even if I don't understand anything 
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EPT
