EPTI wonder if Coco was planning on pushing out with 2 base roach/ling right then or if he was able to read what alicia was doing then made the units.
[GSL] July Code S ro32 Day 2 - Page 147
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can we please leave boxer-related talk out of this lr thread. if you want to discuss it go make another thread and talk in there. | ||
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SolidZeal
United States393 Posts
I wonder if Coco was planning on pushing out with 2 base roach/ling right then or if he was able to read what alicia was doing then made the units. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:52 NickelMail wrote: its just when Alicia's cheesy builds work everyone calls him a genius. When they fail they're shocked and wonder why he would cheese. When thats almost all of his builds. Weird cheesy play. Almost every game. ?? What cheesy builds are you talking about? Are you talking about when he beat BioBalls with pure gateway armies post KA patch? Or are you talking about when Losira did multiple all-ins against his ForgeFE in the last GSL? Maybe you're talking about when he outplayed MC in PvP? Or are you the type of player that feels anything other than a 3gateFE is cheese? Can you be specific what you mean by cheese? | ||
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Jehct
New Zealand9115 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:52 NickelMail wrote: its just when Alicia's cheesy builds work everyone calls him a genius. When they fail they're shocked and wonder why he would cheese. When thats almost all of his builds. Weird cheesy play. Almost every game. His all-ins are pretty unique or have good transitions should they do damage but fail to kill so he's considered a smart player (go figure). It's a pretty common trend that successful protoss players often mix up their play; what we've seen of his standard has been pretty solid (as we saw in him v Coca, though he didn't deal with the unit composition he was facing). When someone does something new and it works they get compliments; when cheese fails against a player people consider worse of course people wish the favourite played standard. Regardless Alicia's build in his rematch against Coca wasn't meant to be an all-in, he just over-committed when he should have been 'sharking' as Incontrol would say. | ||
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Eggcake
Switzerland722 Posts
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Femari
United States2900 Posts
And then he'll still get 2nd and keep the Kong Line going. | ||
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kheldorin
Singapore539 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:49 tangwhat wrote: Were you watching the game? He stayed on 24 probes the entire time, you don't expect and don't make probes man. It looks like he was going for the nexus cancel but didn't cancel it in time. He even blocked off his ramp with a pylon, you don't do that when you're actually expanding. You do that to prevent a ling run by when you're out. You have to do damage when you open stargate especially when you don't forge fast expand. His expansion is so behind so he probably wanted to pressure and backed out when he has forced that many units instead of drones. But he didn't see how many lings and roaches there already were until he got flanked. An army with sentries isn't something you can retreat with easily. | ||
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tangwhat
New Zealand446 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:57 Eggcake wrote: Obviously, expand first and attack your opponent directly afterwards = the new definition of all in/cheese. Well in this case he cut probe production at 24 so yeah he was allin - there wasn't a followup plan to "kill him". You do that to prevent a ling run by when you're out. You have to do damage when you open stargate especially when you don't forge fast expand. His expansion is so behind so he probably wanted to pressure and backed out when he has forced that many units instead of drones. But he didn't see how many lings and roaches there already were until he got flanked. An army with sentries isn't something you can retreat with easily. Hey you know what costs as much as pylon, can attack lings and will let your probes move out of your base? Yeah it's called a zealot. Also you don't have to bring your freaking ground army with your stargate harass in a PvZ, particularly in cross positions as moving out that early with a small gateway force is incredibly risky. | ||
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mikyaJ
1834 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:58 Femari wrote: Thinking about how IM keeps beating MKP, I will laugh if one day he's like "Fuck it, I'm joining IM." And then he'll still get 2nd and keep the Kong Line going. He said that IM was the first team to contact him when he was teamless but he went with Prime. Imagine that. | ||
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darcevader88
Canada648 Posts
last night on ladder, 3 gate robo - expo -> Dts, dt harass than dual pronged attacked.. but my opponent spams me with pms saying i cheesed him because i used DTs.. WTF IS GOING ON! | ||
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Femari
United States2900 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:58 mikyaJ wrote: He said that IM was the first team to contact him when he was teamless but he went with Prime. Imagine that. lmao oh man that makes it even better/worse. (better in terms of humor, worse for MKP) but man if he did actually join them, IM would be even more of a monster team. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
 Not really because he lost, but the way he lost.He used a build that will NEVER work vs Losira (that wouldn't even work vs a competent diamond or master zerg) then vs Alicia he made bad decisions after bad decisions >< When he walked up Alicia's ramp, Alicia had all his units in the back of his base taking care of a drop, he could have destroyed them as they were funneled by buildings and mineral patches, and he retreated, then he didn't went for the gold, that was just sad, he played so bad my god...exactly like when he went to the up and down for the first time, using stupid build vs a protoss on xelnaga (mass marines again I think)The hard life of a MKP fan... now I hope he'll do well in nasl qualifier, but I'm very angry against him | ||
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Jehct
New Zealand9115 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:58 kheldorin wrote: You do that to prevent a ling run by when you're out. You have to do damage when you open stargate especially when you don't forge fast expand. His expansion is so behind so he probably wanted to pressure and backed out when he has forced that many units instead of drones. But he didn't see how many lings and roaches there already were until he got flanked. An army with sentries isn't something you can retreat with easily. If he really stayed on 24 probes his not cancelling the nexus was probably a big mistake; either way the game was weird and his gameplan/execution didn't make a lot of sense. | ||
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JoelB
Germany311 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:54 NickelMail wrote: Dude he cheeses every game. Proxy void-rays or DT's, or proxy stargate, or 4 gate., or 6 gate ect .... ect .... ect .... Every game. So ... as someone who watched all of alicias GSL games in the past i can confirm you are wrong. Might be that he recently did alot of that stuff and i also DON'T like that AT ALL ... but still ... as someone said ... either you go for some 2 base turtel timing attack or an 1 base all in in PvZ, PvT in high level games atm ... not even talking about PvP (the worst Match-up at all) give me a reason for that please ... is it just all protoss player being terribly bad? Is that your answer yes? Dunno ... seems like there is no (or no-one has found a) good alternative as of yet except some games where i'm not sure if it was just the protoss being just far far better in that game ... the future will hopefully give answers to this subject. | ||
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Iron.Fist
Brazil268 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:56 lorkac wrote: ?? What cheesy builds are you talking about? Are you talking about when he beat BioBalls with pure gateway armies post KA patch? Or are you talking about when Losira did multiple all-ins against his ForgeFE in the last GSL? Maybe you're talking about when he outplayed MC in PvP? Or are you the type of player that feels anything other than a 3gateFE is cheese? Can you be specific what you mean by cheese? Maybe he is just a MKP fan that hates Alicia for getting him to up/down. Or TOSS hater Either way if that's cheese then Genius is the god damn cheddar king because he is all about timing attacks nowadays. I really think that Alicia has great potential but some bad decisions (game against Leenock is an example). | ||
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mikyaJ
1834 Posts
On June 29 2011 22:01 MrCon wrote: I think all terran players/MKP fans are sad now Not really because he lost, but the way he lost.He used a build that will NEVER work vs Losira (that wouldn't even work vs a competent diamond or mater zerg) then vs Alicia he made bad decisions after bad decisions >< When he walked up Alicia's ramp, Alicia had all his units in the back of his bases taking care of a drop, he could have destroyed them as they were funneled by buildings and mineral patches, and he retreated, then he didn't went for the gold, that was just sad, he played so bad my god...exactly like when he went to the up and down for the first time, using stupid build vs a protoss on xelnaga (mass marines again I think)The hard life of a MKP fan... now I hope he'll do well in nasl qualifier, but I'm very angry against him Well b/c of awesome seeding Alicia, Polt, and him (among others) are all on the same side of the bracket. Only 1 of them gets the spot. | ||
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NickelMail
128 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:55 tangwhat wrote: I don't think I've seen you make a single good post since you registered. 2 gate stargate expand PvT and DT Expand PvT as well as 6 gate blink timings PvZ have been around forever. The definition of cheese is that if it gets scouted you're pretty fucked. Turns out all those 3 builds are incredibly safe/solid and transition well into playing a longer game. 1 base voidray and DT , 6 gate Blink Stalker are not "Standard" play. When they fail, u lose cause you have no midgame tech. Terran walks down with stim and medivacs and u die. Their variety builds to mix up your play, but korean protoss, and especially Alecia use them 80% of the time. Just watch the last 10 protoss games at GSL, maybe 1 standard game teching to mid/late game play. | ||
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imkp
United Kingdom139 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:58 Femari wrote: Thinking about how IM keeps beating MKP, I will laugh if one day he's like "Fuck it, I'm joining IM." And then he'll still get 2nd and keep the Kong Line going. Apparently when he first started he was offered a place in IM but he joined Prime because of Maka oh how a team with MVP, MarineKing, Nestea and Losira would be | ||
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mikyaJ
1834 Posts
On June 29 2011 22:02 Iron.Fist wrote: Maybe he is just a MKP fan that hates Alicia for getting him to up/down. Or TOSS hater Either way if that's cheese then Genius is the god damn cheddar king because he is all about timing attacks nowadays. I really think that Alicia has great potential but some bad decisions (game against Leenock is an example). Genius was the OG macro Protoss though, he just lost almost every single season to harassment/cheese from Terrans. Rain, DAVIT, and Rainbow all beat him. You can't blame him now for doing what works. | ||
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annedeman
Netherlands350 Posts
On June 29 2011 21:46 MrKn4rz wrote: Except that he beat MC with his macro skills and deadly timings... he beat MC with his micro skills, MC is actually really dangerous if he gets to the late game | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On June 29 2011 22:03 mikyaJ wrote: Well b/c of awesome seeding Alicia, Polt, and him (among others) are all on the same side of the bracket. Only 1 of them gets the spot. Don't bring me on the nasl subject, or people will think I'm a nasl/xeris hater again :D | ||
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