HomeStoryCup III - Day 3 - Page 297

On June 26 2011 03:49 adeezy wrote:
mcs build (with the immortals) didn't seem so good against the one base colossus stuff

On June 26 2011 03:50 Nivyan wrote:


Someone answer this man!

On June 26 2011 03:47 Piski wrote:


I agree but why do you then complain that zergs just A-move the roaches against blink and whine if that's the "right" thing to do?
HuK was attacking idra and idra run away everytime he got to a choke. IdrA failed with upgrades but he got all the other things right. I was mostly picking on your "A-move" whine

On June 26 2011 03:33 Denzil wrote:


What the hell are you on about? You clearly haven't watched Idra v Protoss for the past 20 times.

V MC Hydra Infestor doesn't work
VMC Roach Ling doesn't work
V Huk Roach Ling Infestor doesn't work.

On June 26 2011 03:50 Chicane wrote:
If MC loses and goes straight to play IdrA, I will lol so fucking hard.

Also they said the first foreigner to beat MC. Uhhh Thorzain? (while they were in the same region)

On June 26 2011 03:50 Hierarch wrote:


He usually gets blink, but he went for an expansion instead for some reason, his immortal turtle build is quite good.

On June 26 2011 03:49 YoungNeil wrote:

He could have had better creep spread around the ramp where HuK was poking in and out, then HuK wouldn't have been able to avoid losses from the speedlings without building a lot of sentries. That would have completely defeated the purpose of the harassment, which was to pick off units and distract IdrA at a minimal resource cost while HuK massed stalkers and built up his upgrade advantage. The lings already threatened HuK's stalker ball quite a bit, with one good surround engagement (which IdrA did try to do, that's when he killed the sentries), IdrA could have wiped out the stalker ball for good.

HuK relied really heavily on that harassment, and IdrA could have shut it down with a few better engagements. Better creep spread would have made lings devastatingly effective, as I said, but that's only the easiest thing. Spine crawlers have the range and DPS to make the stalker pokes very dangerous, and they have enough health that they can't just be picked off like roaches. Haypro actually mentioned this, three of those near IdrA's third would have forced HuK to attack at a worse location. Hydras would have been good (not roach/hydra, ling/hydra with a few roaches to tank), especially since their range matches stalker range. HuK got a lot of free hits on roaches when they were chasing his stalkers (without speed or creep, notably) to close the distance so they could attack with their shorter range. Infestors are also fantastic at shutting down blink harass, since it prevents the stalkers from retreating and basically sentences them to death unless HuK is willing to commit, but I doubt IdrA had enough gas to do that and make hydras. And of course, matching upgrades with HuK (was it 3-0-0 vs. 1-0 at the end?) would have made those small engagements more cost-effective for IdrA.

Some people find the blink stalker strategy tedious and frustrating to watch, but I actually find it very interesting when executed well. It's an extremely tense balancing act on the part of both players, and it's a lot more micro-intensive than it may look. Yes, blinking against pure roach is simple (it requires speed, but not much else), but lings and other units make the matter much more complicated. A simple ling surround makes normal blink micro useless, so you need to get zealots and sentries to deal with lings, or plan your positioning out very carefully to prevent effective flanks. Protoss needs to scout to figure out what the Zerg is doing in response to blink harass like that, since while there is no hard counter, there are a lot of things that can be done to help. And, perhaps most importantly, the whole cycle of harassment-into-push takes so long that either player will be completely ruined if he can't keep up his micro and positioning while macroing properly. It looks simpler than it is, because the camera generally focuses only on the stalkers and the Zerg defences, but an entire macro game is going on in the background.

The entire thing is a careful game of cat and mouse, where each player tries to bait the other into losing too many units and crippling themselves for the eventual final push. Yes, it's tiring when the Protoss gets a bunch of blink stalkers and flat out kills (or loses to) a Zerg who just pumps out roaches, but that's not at all what happened here. I thought it was a very tense game, and it definitely could have gone to either player with some different decision-making in the setup for the harassment and battle. I didn't notice any single mistake that could have turned the game around, and that's what I find so fascinating. Unlike many games, where the whole thing swings on one battle or engagement, a blink stalker game with good play on both sides goes to the player who does slightly better over the long term.

Yes, this is something of a tl;dr post. Yes, I'm tired of people complaining about boring games and blaming it on one factor that does not decide the excitement of the game. Yes, the next game is already over. What of it? :|

On June 26 2011 03:51 VenerableSpace wrote:


This isnt a balance thread, its LR. take it elsewhere.